Pressure to Have the "Perfect Birth"

Well said Schmickers and Tobily :clap:

I may well be a natural birth nut trying to impress her ideals on others. :redface:

I am one of the great number of women who went to hospital the first time believing that everyone there would have my best interests at heart.

No one told me when I asked for an epidural that I just halved my chance of being able to push my baby out unassisted. When I resisted the use of forceps, I was threatened, yes threatened, with a c/s if I did not agree. No one told me that forceps required me to have my legs in stirrups and an automatic episiotomy which took 2 months to heal. In fact, I didn't even know I had had an episiotomy until I was being stitched up.

Importantly, no one helped me cope with labour or made me believe that I was capable. I was given drugs as soon as I asked for them and told it was a good idea. What I really needed was someone to get me through the hard bits with support, not drugs. I just didn't know beforehand that I would need that. I thought that is what the midwives would do. I was unlucky that day and was assigned one who liked epidurals.

Do I think there is a conspiracy, not necessarily. But I do believe that the very nature of obstetrics sees birth not as a normal function with great natural variability that is celebrated, but as a potential tragedy that should be feared.

I also know that much of obstetric practice is not evidence based. Take, for example, the Electronic Foetal Monitors. There is no evidence that their use improves outcomes at all, but it is standard practice in most Australian hospitals to use them. The biggest contribution EFM has made is increasing the c/s rate.

So I guess I am one of those women, and I carry my birth baggage around with me - and I wish I had met someone like me before I had my first baby.

Thank you for sharing your passionate knowledge and experiences doulacara.

As a mum of 3, all delivered by C/S - I would like to say that with my 1st I was cared for by a "Community Midwifery Team", due to my wish for a completely natural delivery. Sadly, I now know that my 1st C/S, that was put down to "Failure to Progress" was infact due to Cephalopelvic disproportion. We nearly lost our first bub due to my absolute desire to do it all naturally, and the "Team's" support of my desire. We went through 3 shift changes of midwives - who were all very busy. It was my mother who ultimately chased down the midwife to alert them to serious drops in bub's heart rate, and a serious emergency followed.

This was all ultimately (with the power of hindsight) unavoidable.....except for the fact that at no stage did any of the "Team" think to have my pelvis checked. Maybe this is not a routine procedure - but a friend of mine (with tiny hips) recently told me that her OB has a 'rule of hands & feet'. He surveys the size of the woman's hands and feet......small hands and feet = potential small pelvic inlet. With size 6 feet and child size hands, I could have used this wisdom.

I feel that the 'push' (no pun intended) for completely natural delivery was the catalyst for me nearly losing my precious son - when he was NEVER going to come out the conventional way - no matter how much I wanted a vaginal delivery.

I believe that the serious decrease in the infant mortality rates(at birth) is attributable to medical 'intervention' and monitoring. Yes, C/S rates are up too - but what proportion of those would have ended in tragedy for bub and/or mum anyway? I am most certainly in that category.

PS - I am very particular about making my children understand that C/S is not an alternative birth, rather an emergency situation. I hope that my daughter will delivery naturally when it is her turn.

I am sorry for my convoluted reply, but I keep getting distracted by 3 little pesky redheads! lol!

Perfect Birth = Happy/Healthy/Well Baby + Happy/Healthy/Well Mum

It doesnt matter how your baby comes out the thing that matters most is that you and your baby are well, happy and healthy.

With my DD I thought 'nope no drugs'. After ten hours of oxytocin induced contractions (need it as BP was too high to wait any longer and it was MY choice - my Obstetrician advised not ordered it and final decision was mine) ravaging my body from ten minutes after they put the drugs in and only dilating 1cm, I decided to have an epidural (I am allergic to pethidine and pass out on gas) and I couldnt handle the pain anymore. I am very grateful that I had a qualified Obstetrician who came in and delivered my beautiful daughter who is totally unaffected by how she came into this world. I cannot praise enough the wonderful midwives and my Obstetrician who let/enabled ME to make the choices, who encouraged me, who kissed me and hugged me at the end and in total, respected my wishes as a birthing mother.

Doulacara - I am sorry you had a negative experience with an Obstetrician but not all of them are like the one you experienced. I cant agree with you when you say "But I do believe that the very nature of obstetrics sees birth not as a normal function with great natural variability that is celebrated, but as a potential tragedy that should be feared." My Obstetician and midwives celebrated my birthing process with me, encouraged me to make my choices and as a result of my very positive experience in a large Hospital environment, I no longer have any fear of giving birth the second time around.

As for me, with this little baby growing in my tummy, if I need drugs, I wont wait so long this time, if I need a c/s then I will have one (although from the huge amounts of reading I have done it would need to be a strong medical reason for me to have one - but that is MY choice).

There is no definition of a perfect birth. Each individual has the right to choose. One persons experience may not necessarily suit another and we have to respect every body's right to approach their pregnancy, birthing and parenthood in the manner in which they see fit for themselves. So come on ladies, stop pressuring each other and let each individual decide for themselves what their OWN perfect birth will be.

I also have felt the presure of those who feel they have had or want to have the "perfect birth". I have found some people incredibly insenstitive to the needs of others and I'm sure mums who want a natural birth feel the same way, as everyone recieves ridiculous comments at some stage from people, who are commenting on something that is none of their business.
I got a great birth the second time and it was a planned CS. This birth restored my faith in Ob's and made me want to have another.

I think it is not so much that the 'natural birth nutters' are forcing their opinions on you, but that they had such a great experience they want to shout it from the rooftops and want other women to experience the rawness of natural birth that they did.

But the perfect birth will be different for everybody, and as it should be too. we are all individuals and so to will our births be individual to us and to what our needs are. A perfect birth may not always be one that is drug free, or intervention free, but my definition of a perfect birth is one where you feel empowered, and strong and that you are one with your birthing body - I am woman hear me roar type stuff.

Butterfly Kisses, I think you will find that none of your caregivers checked your pelvis because true CPD is such a rare thing. The correlation of feet and hands is a furphy - it may prove true in some cases but it would be coincidental and not based on actual physical size. There is a great thread that Kelly posted with links to a homebirth midwife site and these women are TINY and they all birth vaginally, often without a tear.

I had a homebirth (NOT drugfree, i used the gas and air for an hour or so AND i had the sintocin for the 3rd stage) and i copped it from all sides. I am really scared of hospitals and the medical research and factual evidence told me that i was as safe at home as in hospital so long as everything was normal. I had no reason to think it wouldn't be normal so i went ahead.

For ME i had a perfect birth.

I was changed by a profound experience of personal strength and power and satisfaction. Everything about me is different. I lost 20kg after birth, began running and hitting the gym, left my broken relationship, i was truly empowered and instead of saying as i had been for years "can i?" i began yelling "i CAN!" and got out of my life's rut pronto. My DD and i got off to the best possible start and so many challenges and issues since then i have been able to meet head on because i really really believe in myself and my capabilities. My body feels better than ever before (i'm even more orgasmic) and my sex drive is through the roof.

If another woman had to have a c-section to get those feelings and that outcome then i think she should absolutely go for it, i just HAPPEN not to personally know anyone who had that outcome from a surgical birth. Of COURSE there are births where women and babies will DIE unless a section is performed, like those with placental abruption or praevia or those who have CPD and have been pushing for 3 hours with the baby still not even engaged and getting distressed. But i don't advise my friends (who have ASKED for advice, i will discuss if asked and advice if SPECIFICALLY asked, but don't tell pregnant women on buses to have homebirths just because i did) on the worst possible outcomes. It's like someone asking for a tissue to blow their nose and you telling them, with the tissue, what to do if they blow and have a haemorrhage from a sinus artery!

You can only get your own perfect birth. The chances are that for many many women my idea of perfect won't fit, but if someone asks i'm not going to say i think they should go into hospital and have a ton of drugs and surgery because in MY experience, the ONLY experience i have, homebirth works and feels fantastic. If they have medical issues which require immediate intervention to save their life or their baby, asking a friend what to do is madness.

Someone saying that being told how they could have avoided their outcome is annoying worries me a little. If you had an unhappy time wouldn't you like to know how to avoid it next time? Or are people really replying to "I had a wonderful beautiful birth and i'm really happy with it" with "here's how to have it better next time.."? If someone asks me about an injury they got exercising and i know how they can avoid it next time i ABSOLUTELY tell them, because i don't want them to keep getting hurt when it's avoidable. I think it was Einstein who said the definition of madness is doing the same things over and over and expecting to get different results.

The hand and feet thing is, like Trillian said, a furphy. My mother birthed 4 children drug-free, vaginally, one 7 and a half pounds, and she is 5ft and has size 4 feet even after having had all her kids.

I am 5ft 4inches and had size 6 feet - 4 kids born vaginally, including an 8lb 1oz and a 7lb 14oz. My feet have gone up a size though since having my kids.

My sister is 4ft 10 inches, 48 kgs and size 5 feet, and has 2 kids birthed vaginally too. With her 3rd child, born in Australia, her ob told her she wouldn't be able to birth vaginally because she's too small and convinced her to have a c/s! He completely glossed over the fact that she has birthed 2 children vaginally previously, so obviously wasn't too small at all. She hated having a c/s, was sick for weeks, and regrets not having tried a vaginal birth again.

According to some ob's perceptions of the size of feet/hands and size of pelvis correlation, none of the 10 kids between us would have been able to be born vaginally, yet they were!

Just to clarify, my original comment was "small hands & feet = potential small pelvic inlet.

Further, I am average height - with proportionately large hips - so it was all a HUGE shock that my "great birthing" hips were infact USELESS!

I would love nothing more than to have a natural delivery - but alas.

I just wanted to pop in quickly and give my experience. DD1 was 12 hours, hospital birth. I begged for the epidural. They were actually trying to persuad me otherwise (just think about it a bit longer etc). I found the whole birth very satisfying and as the epidural was turned off at the end, I still had full feeling. I found everyone involved was fantastic (OB and midwife). I didnt' need forceps or anything and I had no problems after neither did bubs.
DD2, was a very quick birth at hospital (1hour 54 mins entire labour) so there was no intervention. I had two midwives (no OB ) whom I'd never met, and they were just AMAZING. I truly believe they were sent to me for a reason, they both were the best. One was male and I had heard there were two men there and leading up had not wanted a male, but it turned out the be the best thing, he was LOVELY and SO calming!
So for me, 2 hospital births (very different to each other) were both very rewarding experiences. I do believe that no matter where you are it can go either way. I just felt comfortable knowing there was medical staff on hand if needed. Also this was at a sydney hospital that's coping alot of grief lately, but I can't complain at all. xo

Butterfly Kisses, I know you said potentially small inlet, but I just wanted to clarify for someone reading who may take that at face value kwim? But then again a small inlet can still birth a baby. I remember a comment I had written by my Dr on my yellow ante natal card with my first baby and it said "outlet not unduly large" - lovely comment I thought, but what does it really mean? It may have been smaller than an 'average' sized outlet but it did the job for me perfectly, I vaginally birthed 4 babies, 3 of them quite large ones so it proved to me that size if often irrelevant and you can't possibly know how well your 'outlet' will serve you until you are in the throes of labour.

Sorry to go off tangent there everyone, just following the course of the discussion.

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You can only get your own perfect birth. The chances are that for many many women my idea of perfect won't fit, but if someone asks i'm not going to say i think they should go into hospital and have a ton of drugs and surgery because in MY experience, the ONLY experience i have, homebirth works and feels fantastic. If they have medical issues which require immediate intervention to save their life or their baby, asking a friend what to do is madness.

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What an insightful post. With my original post, I was referring to those who berate and treat women who have made different choices with disdain; assuming ignorance because they made a different choice; hey they must have been ill informed! I have had more than a few uninvited discussions like this recently :( I found it particulary strange as I actually had a vaginal delivery - I just support the power of choice.

Great post!

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You can only get your own perfect birth.

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:clap::clap::clap::clap:

I have read all the replies and agree with lots of it. I think one of the main reasons that so much advice etc is given because of the fact that midwives etc are busy and you don't get one on one support or guidance, especially for your first birth which is a big learning curve. (Doula's are a great option) And given the medical system isn't getting any better, at least if people share their experiences and try and provide information so you can consider the options for the right birth for you.

So I think it is about having access to information to make the best choices for you and your baby.

You are right Mollygirl - information sharing and informed decision making is the best way forward when seeking the "Perfect" Birth.

Absolutely agree - horses for courses. One person's perfect birth could be another person's bad experience. Mine was perfect for me - epidural after three days of labour with a posterior baby (and my own pain management techniques) followed by forceps. I could not have been prouder of myself.

What peeves me a little is that some people will carry on about labour being mind over matter, somehow implying that women who take pain relief just weren't mentally strong enough to cope with the pain. Don't get me wrong, I think you need to be prepared and it's great to have some pain management techniques up your sleeve but often it's the length of the labour that determines your attitude to drugs not just your pain tolerance levels.

I'm a huge fan of Juju Sundin's book - you can't be disappointed with your birth if you know that you've tried your best and she gives you lots of techniques to try. Worked for me - I know I tried my best and like I said in my first sentence, I could not be prouder.

I think it's sad that the OP and some subsequent posts have set up an 'us versus them' mentality about birth. Yes, I'm sure there are those who advocate intervention-free birth who also have this mentality, and I believe that's sad, too.
In the end, for me, I advocate making a REAL choice. A real choice is one where you are properly informed about all angles. I mean, knowing the risks of C-S, induction, (the catalyst for the slippery slide into further interventions at a time when a woman is not in the best position to make informed decisions) pain relief (did you know that it crosses the placenta and affects a lot of babies in establishment of breastfeeding? Or that it also affects how a baby comes out of you, if at all? They don't tend to tell you these things if you don't ask!), medicalisation of a normal pregnancy and birth, as well as knowing the risks of homebirth (very little if you are having a normal pregnancy), how to manage pain naturally, writing a birth plan (not wish list, but a proper birth plan).
You may wish to put the blinkers on and let the OB take your hand through your pregnancy and look after what your body is doing. Just be aware that this is not informed choice, yet it IS still your choice to do this. Many women are lucky and have great births this way. Many more are not, and don't realise until they meet a 'bully' (geez, never heard that term before today!) that they have choices and that their next birth needn't see them be a spectator to a most wondrous event.
I hardly had any support for the birth I planned. There was my partner who believed in what my body is designed to do, and there was a male friend who said "you've got balls, you won't need drugs" (wow, what a paradoxical thing to say!) and then there was the rest - the 'take the drugs' brigade!
So, you may be feeling indignant that your vent has been hijacked by the 'birth bullies'. I would say that it's a case of 'tough luck' because BellyBelly was established precisely to advocate gentle birth and gentle parenting and empowerment. Handing over the reins to the medicos, where it's not medically necessary is not empowering if you have chosen not to inform yourself about what you can do to have a better birth for you and your baby (remember the baby? Seeking pain relief methods is not about the baby) is just not empowering. And that's fine if you don't want to be empowered. Just remember it affects more than just you, it affects your little one.
I, for one, was going to learn from friends who didn't enjoy their births and look into it the first time round. I wanted as little of it as possible to be a lesson in hindsight - after all, I wanted to give my baby the best entrance I could prepare us for. And I did. And more than anything I want women to experience that, instead of trauma, regret, unnecessary interventions.
No apologies for pushing the 'natural' agenda in your thread, I came to Belly Belly to be informed and to impart empowerment to other birthing women. I am not prepared to say that I believe it's ok if you want to hand over all agency to medical professionals. I don't have that much faith in my fellow university graduates :P
(ETA: just looked back on OP, and SophieBear wasn't polarised in her view, apologies. It was subsequent posts that did this)

Hmmm. I wanted drug-free and was scoffed at. I had a bad birth because no-one listened to me.

If I had wanted a medical birth, as you do, then I'd be happy with what you have. I wanted a free birth. I didn't get that so was upset.

The perfect birth isn't drug-free. It's what YOU consider to be the perfect birth. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Many people think I had a wonderful experience, but just because they would have liked it (and I do beg to differ) doesn't mean I did.

Well said Mayaness! I also came to BellyBelly because I was looking forward to advice and discussions with people who also believe in natural birth and parenting, so it is a shame when those very people are scoffed at.

I didn't feel any pressure to have a natural birth. I always planned to go with what the midwives and doctors said and that's what happened. I have had a number of people ask if I had a "natural" birth, but they were meaning a vaginal birth, not one without drugs.

I always intended to use gas & an epi, but ended up using gas & peth (forgot to ask for an epi and they didn't offer it). How and why anyone would want to go through labour without drugs completely escapes me.

I don't believe that doctors have an agenda. I laboured for 17 hours (and had about 12 hours of pre labour) and the doctor only got involved after I'd been pushing for almost two hours. Lucky he did as I had shoulder distocia and my bub probably would never have come out without the use of syntocinin and the ventouse.

If anything I think those around me IRL have a certain kind of respect for me having gone through such a long labour and not having had an epi (silly cos it wasn't my choice) and for also having avoided a c section.

Personally I think whatever it takes to get a healthy baby is what you have to aim for, regardless of other peoples opinions. It took me 14 years to hold a bub in my arms so I would have gone along with anything that was suggested.