Feedback on Pinky's School Choice Article

[Bathsheba]

I've just read Pinky's articlew on Choosing A School for Your Child. Very well written and provides an excellent checklist for selecting a good school. However I was a little concerned that she used the word 'elite' 3 times when refering to private schools. Maybe it was my own defensiveness, but I felt that this was a value judgement that is a little unnecessary.

We choose to send our DD to a private school and encounter time after time negative comments about all private schools being "elitist". I agree that this might be the case with some private schools but not all. To the contrary, my DD's school reaches out to the local community in a way that (from what I can see) exceeds those of all other schools in the area. Every year level has a Social Service captain that co-ordinates fundraising for disadvantaged groups both in Australia and internationally. My DD was a Social Service captain in year 6 and was in charge of devising, running and collecting raised funds for animal rights in China. How many grade 6 students in Victoria can claim such an experience? This is just one example of how the school culture is one of social justice. It is instilled in every student at every grade level from prep to year 12: Take care of others less fortunate than yourself!!

As for the costs of private education: yes, the fees go into the thousands but few people seem to question the wisdom of spending thousands on cars/holidays/plasma tvs/weddings/mortage repayments (none of which we have spent thousands on BTW)

It seems that many people consider education a 'right' that ought to be free... well, I see it as an investment which will determine the quality of life for the child into the future more so than living in a house that the parents have paid for... or the ammount of technology he/she has in their bedroom.

Please don't get me wrong. I really enjoyed the article. However it might alienate parents like myself who have used a checklist similar to what Pinky provided and came up with a private school as the school of 'best fit'. That would be a shame.

[BellyBelly]

Hey Bath, I will have to re-read the article as it's been some time since I have done so, but I just wanted to add that I have made a somewhat tough decision and chosen to send Marisa to a private school next year. Yes, they cost a fortune but for me it's not status either. I think many people do see it as being 'elitist' and sometimes when you write articles you need to connect with what people think - again I will re-read... but the reason I am sending Marisa to a Private school is that she will go to a school with one prep class (most around here have 4) and she will thrive in the girls-only smaller school. May of you know she has selective mutism so the transition is going to be huge for her into a school and I feel a large, overwhelming environment could see her not do as well as a smaller nurturing school. Her awesome kinder teacher was so pleased to hear of our decision, she was hesitant to say anything knowing its a huge money issue to consider, but agrees she will thrive at one of the two places we have chosen. Marisa is actually excited about going to one of them. Elijah will probably be fine no matter where he goes

[Bathsheba]

Thanks for reading my little rant Kelly... I fully admit to being highly defensive about the issue as many of our friends and family think we have made the choice based on "status" This could not be further from the truth. Infact DH took a bit of convincing that our DD would not be negatively impacted by "elitism"... we both went to government schools so the whole thing was really out of our comfort zones. These days you couldn't find a stronger advocate for small private girls' schools than my DH. Our DD has thrived and I'm so relieved that we went with our hearts rather than followed public perception.

Regarding: "sometimes when you write articles you need to connect with what people think" Definately, but what we all love about Pinky is how she challenges many misconceptions. We need intelligent women like her to connect with readers but not to perpetuate inaccurate perceptions... what does the average person believe about home birthing for example? Or home schooling? The facts should speak for themselves and even though I'm not aware of the facts on privately educated people I would guess that the overall outcome is pretty good? And not just academically... their whole development: spiritual, emotional, physical etc at private schools.

But hey, each to their own, what really annoys me though is when the same people who criticise us for taking what they perceive as a "status" option spend thousands of dollars on "status symbols" like luxury cars/clothes/plasma tvs etc. Grrrrrr. Infact one family doesn't hesitate to spend $100 on AFL pullovers each season but b*tch and moan on spending the same ammount of money on a school uniform! It just shows the mentality: entertainment is the priority over and above education. But that's beside the point...

Pinky's article would be totally excellent if only she would reconsider her use of "elite" and maybe at least acknowledge that a private school can actually provide a quality education.

I agree, Marisa will thrive and absolutely adore school and the process of learning especially in the small class. (Our DD was one of 10 girls in her Prep year too). I'm looking forward to further news of her experience The monetary sacrifice will soon seem less important and I know I don't need to remind you about Money Miracles

[Facey]

I have to agree that all private schools are not elite. My children go to a small private school that does cost in the thousands. I choose the school because of the nuturing environment ,individual attention and focus on guiding the children to be caring members of the community. Yes, some of the parents have a lot of money but many do not and just choose to make the sacrifice. Obviously not all state schools are the same but I like the values taught at our school, and that is worth the money for me.
Facey

[Astrid]

I read this article a while ago and did not notice a problem with the use of the word elite. I have re read it and to me the word elite is not being used in reference to all private schools just some. I thought it was a well balanced article. Most articles I have read lately that talk about schooling normally are trying to make one form of school out to be better than another.

I come the other side. We will be choosing public schooling for a variety of reasons which I will not go into in details as I do not think this about picking at peoples reasons, but allowing them to make an educated choice about what suits their family.

Even before I had a child I was already on the receiving ends of attacks when it came up that I did not have a problem with public schooling. One manager even told me that if I had children and that if I did not send them to private school that I would not get promotions. Once I was pregnant even MIL got in on the act going on that Maggie could get into the Catholic schools as DH is a catholic (that was news to me, according to him he is not). She would not let it go that she hated the public school system and blamed it for her others son's "Failings", after knowing him for years, I think a different type of schooling would not have mattered. As far as I am concerned if she wants Maggie to go to a private school, she can pay for it.

Anyway I am rambling. I think anyone will find not matter they choose, as with all other parenting choices, someone will criticise.

[Bathsheba]

I was concerned because the word elite was used almost every time the words "private school" was used. I found very little in the article to support a private education compared to the amount of information supporting the public system. I do not consider it a balanced article. If I was considering a public education for my child I would be very comforted by the article and my choice however.

Would somebody refer to a private hospital as 'elite' or private transport (having your own car) as 'elite'? These are two services that also have public options that can save people thousands of dollars. But like education, these services are not right for everyone.

I also said the article was very well written overall. I just think that when writing an article for people's information personal opinions really do need to be strongly backed up by facts. I read in The Age recently that somehting like 60% of parents are not happy with the public education system in Victoria (it varies from state to state) and that there is a greater degree of satisfaction amongst parents who are using the private system. (I'll look for the article and copy it in here when I get a chance).

Anyhow I just wanted to say that despite the tone of the article I am actually very happy with my choice, as are all of the parents at my DD's private school... if they weren't they wouldn't be prepared to pay which makes the school highly accountable.

I am not anti-public system either... my DS will most likely attend a public primary school (if it suits his needs)... because at the end of the day you send your child to the school that is right for them, despite your own personal prejudices (remembering my days at uni when I was very vocally against girls' schools!).

ETA: perhaps I have an incorrect idea of what the word "elite" means? I haven't checked a dictionary but it kinda conjurs up images of people being "stuck up" and being overly status oriented? It implies that the average person is just not "good enough" to attend their hallowed grounds? My experience couldn't be farther from the truth although you always get people with ego issues in all walks of life and in all instituations. I attended public schools and this didn't stop certain families behaving in an "elite" manner.

[Astrid]

I thought the majority of the article was how to choose a school whether it was private or public. That was the way I read it anyway. I am not sure it needed to have statistical facts added to it about what parents are happy with, as wouldn't that change over the years?

[Liz]

DH & I were talking about this the other day, and we both actually agree that academic education isn't going to be the focus in our family. Life education is so much more important, and that is taught in the home rather than at school. Look at all the people that have succeeded in this world.. most of them probably didn't even complete secondary schooling! hehe.

In my experience, and DH's too, we've found ourselves working and living alongside people who went through private schooling, and find ourselves at the same level.. no different. Neither my DH nor my bro have any papers or qualifications to their name, yet are very successful, and are more highly valued in their fields than those who waltz in with university degrees. Experience and life experience are more important to us, so we're happy with the public system for our kids

I haven't read the article, but I do hope the perception of elitist isn't being pushed. That is the general perception unfortunately of private schools, and a lot of people do come out the other end thinking they're a cut above the rest. And I think that needs to be stamped out. After all, kids will be kids no matter where they are schooling - look at the some of the troubles that made it onto the news of private school kids.

[Bathsheba]

Yes, I know media shows just love to have a go at private schools... my DH is a banker so we don't have much of a chance when it comes to current affairs programs

Academic performance is one of the lesser reasons we send our DD to her school... top of the list is developing her spiritual knowledge, and the school sharing our values of personal presentation (not going to school looking like you've just crawled out of bed etc). Also we prefer the smaller classes and the zero tolerance of bullying. I think if you provide a caring, supportive and respectful environment for both the staff and students then academic performance will follow naturally.

[Liz]

hmm.. i didn't mean that private school kids are bad. LOL. Just that kids are kids, and private school may not necessarily be a safer environment for them iykwim.

I'm proud to be sending my children to private schools and frankly anyone that bagged me out wouldnt be a friend to begin with! and I would just see them as being jealous..

See, I don't see it as something to be jealous of, unless you do see it as a cut above the public system and deem it worthy of jealousy? Like Bath said, there's public & private health care too... I wouldn't think people are jealous of those using the private system. We all go with what we are comfortable with.

Same with schooling. We feel we can instill values like working hard and doing their best etc using the public system and providing a good environment at home.

I'm sure research needs to go into selecting local private schools as much as needs to go into local public schools, there's good & bad in both. We've got friends with kids going through local public schools here, and they're doing well, so that helps too. It'd be hard doing 'cold' research on schools I reckon. I'd be interested to read the article actually.

[Rouge]

Schools are schools, and I think there are bad public's and bad private schools. And it depends on the child as to what school is right for them. I believe in choosing a school that is right for the child, not necessarily all private or all public for each individual child. Whilst Paris will be going to a private high school Seth may not, or if he does he may not attend the same school as it will depend on what they offer to suit him. I can't say what it's like in all states, but I know in victoria, and especially in my area the schools (even primary) have a focus, and each school varies. There are 3 public schools in my area and each one has a different primary focus, 1 is IT, 1 is theatrical and visual arts and the other is language & music. Some are more sports focused, others are more mathematical focused.

As for private schools, of course there are elite ones, if there weren't you wouldn't have to be on a waiting list from birth for some. Of course being in a private school doesn't automatically mean it is elite, but there are some that are.

I think I get what Pinky meant, but I think I also understand how it has been interpreted too.

*hugs*
Cailin

[BellyBelly]

I spoke to Pinky about this, here is her input:

I wrote that article years ago - I too have 2 kids who went to private schools - have also experienced public and homeschooled too. Each suited individual kids at particular stages - removed our youngest from a public shool because of enormous stress around his dyslexia - the school we chose was brilliant and his confidence soared (as did his learning when he was no longer stressed). Certainly 'elitist' wasnt the best choice of words -sorry - please dont be defensive. We too went without / made choices to manage this and for this child and our other who went to a Steiner school, it truly was an investment - On the other hand, our kids who didnt experience private education have done really well - Larissa was the only student in one of her uni classes who hadnt been to a private school (she was homeschooled throughout primary years, went to a small community school then Swinburne Senior secondary in year 11 and 12). She never got less than HDs at uni (3 degrees) and is extremely conscious of social justice issues (did placements in public mental health).

I think the important factor is to fit the school to the child, be confident whatever your choices - private or public - ultimately it is your own nurturing, modelling and family values that will have the biggest influence on the outcome for your child - eg when James was in grade 5 he was the only kid in his class who knew who Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King were - the teachers were blown away by his 'general knowledge' - I wouldnt expect my kids NOT to know this.

[Bathsheba]

Thanks Kelly and Pinky!

I am the first to admit that I am overly sensitive about this issue. You are right, I need to work on that. Cailin is right too, "schools are schools" and there are good and bad in both public and private.

It really disappoints me though that the general public needs stereo-types when it comes to issues like this. As a consequence most of our friends and family feel justified in criticising rather than trying to understand our reasons for choosing a private education.

I'll try to calm down a bit though and be more accepting... but like Kelly, it's like I have found a new toy (my DD's school) and i want to share and dispell all the dismissive remarks that all private schools are elite.

Cailin is also right with Victorian public schools having a focus... and it's also often the case with private schools... my DDs previous girls' school was more arts focused and her current school is more supportive of athletes too (which suits her). I haven't worked out what the focus of the closest public primary is but I know that the next closest has a strong music focus which will suit my DS. I am always prepared to travel a little further for the most appropriate school. I have to admit that friends of ours who say "our children will just go to the closest school around the corner... it'll do".... get's my hackles up! LOL

Thanks again for your response Pinky. I love your outlook and it's very interesting to hear of your own personal choices too I'd love to read more articles based on your more recent experiences in the education system

[Bathsheba]

Oh Jelvie! You don't know how good it is to hear another person say that primary schooling is very, possibly more, important! I couldn't agree more but almost every time I'm discussing education with friends they said things like "well, we might consider sending our children to private high school because that's more important". I agree those years are important but no more so than the early years. When I am brave enough I actually reply to these people that "Oh well, I think the primary years are important because it establishes the child's attitude toward learning, the social aspects of school and their feeling towards authority figures like teachers".

We might not be able to afford private high school but at least our DD has already positive attitude toward formal education... she loves learning and going to school... so now she would probably adapt to and do well anywhere.

[Liz]

Jelvie - there's nothing there?

[PrincessT]

I agree that schools very much depend on your child. My husband came from a family of three and each child went to a different (albeit) private school as they all have different focus'. My brother and I both went private and where it was good for me, it was terrible for him.
We have chosen to send Allegra to Private schools mainly because the public schools in the area we live dont impress me much at all. They are all pretty run down and after extensive talks with people who have had children in these particular schools I am convinced that they are in need of much further funding as well as more formal school rules.
We have Allegra booked into Montessori for pre-school/kindy and people think we are crazy! Most people we know think that we are waisting money but we happen to agree and like their teaching method. Its such a personal thing education and I most heartedly agree that children develop so differently from each other.