Would you go into debt for your childs secondary education?

[Liz]

Yep and with that post you could almost convert me Bath LOL. But I think you'll have success with your plans because you're on that same page. I think the parent's attitude and participation plays a huge part in what kids make of their schooling. I probably sound completely anti private schooling, but I'm not As I said, we all have different priorities and focus in life Not that I don't want my kids to shine.. just don't see it as necessary to go into debt for it when plenty of people shine with public education.

I couldn't lump all public teachers into the uninspired box tho. Yes they probably have smaller budgets and less resources, but hopefully we can find a school with passionate teachers I'm sure there is good and bad within the private schools too.. and even personality clashes with certain students and teachers.. paying a fee isn't going to guarantee that the teacher will gel with your child and tune in to their talents, or that the teacher doesn't have some issues of their own affecting their performance.

But it's hard to deny the attitude that the private system is fostering.. that their students are more employable etc.. if employers are discriminating on that point alone (maybe that question should be a no-no in interviews just like asking someone's religion, or even their age is!) It sounds like a big marketing campaign actually. It's a bit like these training colleges that guarantee employment. They've struck deals with employers and made a name for themselves, so now they can hike up the fees based on reputation & demand alone.

[Bathsheba]

Sadly that's not the case in the banking industry Bron Common practise when the managers are looking for new assistant staff from the Graduate Program is (because there are sooo many applicants) to narrow down the list by using certain criteria. Even though it might have been several years since the applicant was at highschool they will give preference to the privately educated ones. DH says that from experience (amongst all the managers he knows) these are the applicants who have the interpersonal skills required for the job: good grooming... good speech patterns... ability to quickly establish rapport with clients to name a few. But DH works in the private banking sector where the clients are very high net worth clients who generally have very high expectations in these areas. But... still... I'd say "meh" too... who'd want to work for a bank anyhow? but it does happen.

[Phteven]

Sadly that's not the case in the banking industry Bron

Bath, I think it will be the practice in the banking industry in Australia in a few years. My uncle is a director of one of the large English banks and his bank has done a lot to eliminate the old boy network because they want a higher standard of employee. When he was the director of an Australian bank a few years ago they were just starting to make changes that English banks had made a few years previously. I suspect that in employment too Australia is a few years behind.

[Liz]

I've known lists of applicants to be culled based on their names... if they have an asian name they mustn't speak clear english, so they get struck off the list!! Yes, this prejudice still exists too! (guess that'll be my problem if I want to be employed again now LOL) But then it's no worse than assuming a publicly educated person can't present themselves and deal with clients in a professional manner.

You're right.. who'd wanna work for a bank.. or in accounting anyway LOL

[Lulu]

Bath, I think it will be the practice in the banking industry in Australia in a few years. My uncle is a director of one of the large English banks and his bank has done a lot to eliminate the old boy network because they want a higher standard of employee. When he was the director of an Australian bank a few years ago they were just starting to make changes that English banks had made a few years previously. I suspect that in employment too Australia is a few years behind.

Very very true. I can attest to that because I've been working for my father (psychologist) for the past 15 years. One of the biggest HR companies in Aus uses his aptitude tests for the upper end employment of all the big industries (hr, mining etc). They came to him years ago because they were sick of losing thousands of $$$ employing people that looked good on paper but not up to scratch in reality.

You know, it's AMAZING how many people in high corporate roles really truly want to be out painting landscapes instead....

[Astrid]

It is so interesting how our education experiences are so different. For my first 2 years of high school I went to the 2nd worst school in the area, it was bad, it was falling down, had rat, kids pulled knives on teachers etc. You know what though? I received the best education at that school. The teachers were passionate to teach those who were willing to learn. In year 8 I was top 97% in the state for maths and top 95% for science, I was also Dux one semester. Yes this school had a bad rep, but if you came out of it with good marks it actually made you very employable as it meant you were smart.

For year 9 & 10 I went to one of the top schools in the area as we had moved, it was the public equivalent of a private school. My education plummeted, there was so much more favouritism amongst the teachers who actually tried to be friends with the popular kids. They were so hell bend on school averages that if you were average or doing well you were ingored. A lot of effort was put into the kids who could not wait to leave when they hit 16. They had a horrible self learn system that was just not for me, I lost my love for science and was falling to the bottom of the class (to silly to know that self learn meant cheating, not learning). I was still top at maths, but the maths teacher had his favourites and ignored their cheating, so I looked liked I was bottom of the advanced maths class. It all came out in the maths competitions that I was actually good at maths and his favourites were not.

I deeply regret the change in schools, I was warned by the teachers to not make the change. Anyway what I am getting at? Basically that reputation may not be the best bearing on what is the better school for my children. I would much rather help fund raise for a public school that meets the needs of my children than give money to a private school that may look good for them to have on a resume.

[shellbell3]

Well a little off topic but I remembered a funny story DF told me bout public/ private.
When he was 18 him and a mate were totally drunk rifling thru clothing bin. Police came along took them back to the police station, asked his mate what school did you go to, he replied B.... grammer, well they were so nice to him drove him home straight away.
Asked Df where he went which he repied B.... High (the local public school). They turned round to him yelled 'get in the cell punk' and locked him up for 4 hours. True story.

I do know too of jobs going to people that had private school background. If it comes down to 2 applicants the one that went to the better school will win out.

[Phteven]

If I was interviewing and I had 2 applicants who were equal except for the school I would take the one who went to what I percieved as the lesser school. If one had more oppurtunities but they are both in the same place then the one with less opportunities has come further and thus has more drive and potential.

ETA - If you move to a different state or country there's a good chance that future employers won't have a clue whether your school is private or public. I know QLD and NSW schools but no other states. You could go to the poshest school in Victoria and I wouldn't know it.

[shellbell3]

Yeah a friend of mines husband does that. He is now in a high up position and started in a local public school that had a bad rep so he likes to give people that chance.

[lauren22]

Definatly!
After being to a private primary school 2 public highschools and a private high school i can honestly say that personally I would go into debt for a private school education.

[Jennifer13]

I went to a public primary and a public high school in Nth Qld. When I moved to NSW, no one had any idea and it was never an issue. But if the topic of schools you went to comes up and someone is from Sydney - then I notice they get the third degree and/or the judgement that comes with it!

I'd rather fly under the radar. Plus, never affected my ability to get into university and my post grad degree has a very high value for its type and where I went to get it.

[prama]

speaking ppl from private schools - i have a colleague who went to a very good private school, but his attitude towards work stinks. palming off work to others, cunning etc. no guarantee that private schools churn better/higher moralled individuals. another colleague went to a very very prestigious brisbane girls private school and she was bullied cos of her ethnic background.
i dont think in our organisation, we really care which school we've been to, there's ppl from all over the world.

when ive told some mothers that we will send ds to a public school, ive had got the reaction ''aaahhhhh' like im such a bad mother for sending him to a public school where as htey are going to send their kids to a prvate school.

at the end of the day, i cannot tell which of my colleagues went to a public/private boarding school unless they tell me. and frankly i dont care. as long as they are good people and deliver and are sincere at work, that's all that matters.

[fionas]

My XH who went to Melbourne's second most expensive private school and was the partner in a top 6 accounting firm said if he was responsible for recruitment he'd employ purely women from public schools (ie. like me) because they're the hardest and smartest workers! Might have just been trying to get into my pants that night though

[bon]

I went to many different schools - we moved a lot. A public primary, then I did school of the air for a while (due to moving to a remote area), then into a private Catholic school for year 7, then for high school it was all private - three different Catholic schools, one of which was a boarding school (once again due to my parents living in a remote area). I would have done well whatever school I went to - I had/have that drive. I am very good at motivating myself and committing to things, and I liked school. But I am still glad I went to private schools. The ones I went to were not ridiculously expensive, nor were they "snooty". They accepted students from all different backgrounds and you didn't have to be Catholic, or even Christian, to go there. But of course you did have to accept the Catholic ethos of the school, which included compulsory religious education classes.

Anyway, I want our children to go to a private high school. I would like to get them into the local Catholic primary, but they are full atm. I don't want to go into debt however - I have made sure that we could afford the fees (which are quite reasonable really) if our kids were enrolled there. DS's current primary school is ok, he is doing really well and the school itself works hard to make sure they foster the right environment for the children - which is hard considering how under-resourced state schools in QLD are (the govt really needs to pick up it's act in this area - there is something badly wrong when a teacher has to use their own funds to resource their classrooms adequately, even to buy hand soap for the children to use) and so I have no problem continuing to send him there (and his sisters) if we don't get offered a place at the Catholic school. But the public high schools in our area leave a lot to be desired. In fact, our local state high has such a bad reputation that many parents send their children to state highs in the next suburb or even further (if they can get them in) rather than send them to the local school. I would rather pay for them to go to the Catholic school.

[Kailani]

Divvy - I too am pretty sure I got a couple of jobs thanks to the school I attended and it was made quite obvious as everyone at the group induction for my first past time job went to a private school...

Shell, I think I know the schools you are talking about! The one where people bribe the principle and move into the zone to get in lol is that the one up the road from me??

Afm...I attended a private school in a "well-to-do" suburb for primary up to year 10 and then did VCE at a public school!! Why? Because the public school offered MORE subjects - the ones I wanted to do and were relevant to my uni choices. I really think I had the best education - the best of both worlds. I loved the school I did VCE at - yeah it was a culture shock and I admit I was part of the minority in that I was a bit of a nerd and cared about my studies. Having said that, a lot of people from the public school didn't go on to tertiary studies whereas most people from the private school did. I found that having come from the private school I had, I was more disciplined and took exams more seriously than a lot of the other kids who'd often use their free periods (or just skip class) to go down to the beach or to the shops, whereas I'd go and study!!

I don't think I'd be prepared to go into that sort of debt per child for private education. If DS and any future bubs we might have are bright and academic, there a a few selective public schools around that they can sit a test for or if we have the money then we'd consider private school but I don't think it's a neccessity.

Oh and one thing about private schools is the ridiculously expensive uniforms A summer uniform, a winter uniform, a sports uniform - I remember when I left I didn't even consider selling my uniform and I gave a lot of it to a friend of mine and boy did my mum go ballistic when she found out I gave it away!!

[Bathsheba]

I'm going to see if I can learn to link to another post in another thread because whilst replying to that thread one of the main reasons why I value my DD's independent schools became apparent. It's about the vastly different approach teachers take at my DD's school to the way they teach in (I imagine) most public schools.

ETA: ok... it didn't work. If you're interested check out my post in Brontides thread about Children and Creativity in the Education section.

[Phteven]

Bath's post

I don't think that valuing creativity can be divided into public and private. Of the schools that I attended one of the public schools valued creativity the most. In NSW there are 6 public selective creative and performing arts high schools which focus more on creativity than any other schools in the state.

I hope they have changed things now but when I was at school an A in an arts or humanities subject was given less weight in calculating your TE score than an A in maths or science regardless of what school you attended.

[Bathsheba]

LOL Ta Bron... but it was my first (previous) post in that thread... the one explaining about the Reggio method. When I was a teachers' assistant I did professional training which on one occasion involved going to about half a dozen other independant schools in Melbourne who also taught using the Reggio philosophy of respecting children as being in control of the the way they learn and not just blank slates to be "written" on. IYKWIM. I'm not sure if any public school in Melbourne adopts this approach.