Toddler tantrums, how to manage him scratching, hitting me before I lose my mind

:shakehead:My 2.5 year old DS has become very difficult to manage over the last 3-4 weeks. We are living at my MIL's because our house is being painted at the moment as he has gone awol. I have got to the point where I don't know what to do, we are going home at the end of this week thankfully but I am worried that the same behaviour will reappear when we get home. If I tell him he can't have something, take something from him that he shouldn't have or try to get him to do something that he doesn't want to do, it results in one of the following:
* spitting saliva into the air sometimes landing in my face
* talking back to me
* refusing to stay in time out when put there
* hitting, pinching or scatching me
* kicking me
* refusing to say sorry to me when in time out
We have only had these major problems since not being at home. But I'm not sure if it is crossing the 2.5 age or the fact that he isn't at home that is causing it. I am quickly losing patience and I end up in tears and very frustrated and hurt. It also doesn't help that my family (surprising not my in-laws) are not very supportive as he behaves like this there too and they advise me that I'm a bad mother for not hitting him and that he will turn out to be a nightmare when he is older because of this.

Please tell me I'm not crazy and any advice would be very very helpful. Thanks

You aren't the only one....

Will be watching this thread for any ideas that might help us too.

DS would't stay in his room either. So I held the door shut.

Jan you are not a bad mum at all and you are doing the best you can. Your post about Julian could have been written about Olivia. I'd try to just survive until you are back at home because he is out of his environment and pushing the boundaries while mummy is at breaking point. Keep working on the time out darl. Sit there with him to keep him there if you have too. Olivia was so bad at one stage that I had to pick two of her worse behaviours sort them out and then move on to another two or otherwise she would never have gotten out of time out. You're doing a great job keep it up darl.

You are so not crazy & so not the only one!

My DS is doing all of the things that you've listed. The crazy thing is that he can say sorry, and frequently does for random things that are just funny, but will not say sorry for hitting/kicking etc. he will give us a kiss & a cuddle though, so I kind of let him go on that, although as he gets older then the "sorry" will become mandatory.

I kind of don't expect there to be a quick turnaround at this age, so I focus mainly on my consistency and expectations, making sure that I'm being fair. Although I certainly struggle at times with remaining calm & rational with him, mostly cos I'm so tired at the moment.
I reckon that once you're back in your home, and things are more "normal" it will make things a little easier. And not having "back-seat parenting" would make it easier for you too. He won't turn into a monster if you use gentle methods to discipline, no matter what your family says.

This will sound stupid, but I have found that since reading books aloud to my DD she doesn't have those kinda tantrums - to the extent she used to. I think it might be because we have that 'special' time, where as before I left her to play with her toys etc, and she was happy doing so.

Maybe its a cry for some more attention?

I could have written that post as well...

The thing that I found is being consistant. It used to drive me INSANE - every time we caught up with my family he would go insane - wee everywhere, throw things etc. My family used to take over and say things like your family. I put my foot down (in front of DS) and made sure people (including DS) knew that I was in charge of disciplining him. Once he knew the rules out are the same as home, things have settled down.

It sounds like you are stressed and I guess he is picking up on that and milking it for all its worth. Kids love consistancy - let him know that he is safe and secure wherever he is!

HTH

I think hipmummy and leesa's suggestions combined could work.

Does DS see your ILs undermining you? If so, this could be encouraging his behaviour, but regardless, that has to stop, and I think it's a great idea if DS witnesses that.

I'd say he's also kicking up about the disruption in his life, so maybe some extra one-on-one time might be needed.

Lastly - I have to say my DS gets very upset when he gets into trouble so it is fairly easy to impress him - but what would happen if, say when your DS spits, you stood up very straight and tall and in a very firm and loud voice said something like "EXCUSE ME, how dare you do that? That is not nice, Mummy never spits at you. Don't you EVER do that again." Of course the facial expression combined with voice tone is key here...for me, it's all about conveying the expression with my eyes as well as my face. I channel my old headmistress!

Thanks ladies. I will try your suggestions. I think I have been taking his tantrums too personally and blaming myself for them. I love the idea of tackling two behaviours and changing those. That seems much more manageable and I need to be consistent whereever we are. Is it essential for them to say sorry or just to calm down in time out? How do you do it?

First of all, this is a GENTLE parenting discussion, right? On that basis, I'll give you a gentle parenting option - I'm not sure that holding a door shut on your toddler or yelling at them etc is what I'd call gentle. It's also debatable of course, but I don't think time-out is preferable either. Time IN maybe where you add time with them rather than taking it away.

We have problems with DS hitting, kicking, throwing things etc. In his case I think it only happens when he is particularly bored or unsettled - I would imagine in your DS's case, life is pretty unsettling to him! THis might just be how he is letting you know.

You could

a) try responding to him when he does something like that with "hitting (or whatever) is not okay. Are you feeling angry/sad/bored/worried? How else might you be able to tell me that?"- i.e. try using it as a moment to teach him how to express what worries him rather than acting out. My nephew responds to this sort of conversation REALLY well, it is surprising!
b) Get those "When I'm feeling..." books by Trace Maroney to help him learn appropriate expression of feelings & frustration
c) Make your own little book to read with him with photos of himself doing lovely things and write a very basic story about what to do when he's frustrated. (We did this on a diff issue with DS and it has helped!)

I just realised those points might be quite long-term goals for you if you are looking for an immediate thing. I guess that's part of my philosophy. It's important to tell them it's not ok in the moment, but even more important is helping them to learn what IS appropriate.
Just saying "NO" doesn't achieve much IYGWIM.

I hope that helps a bit...........

I get really frustrated too by the way. A friend said to me recently that sometimes the negative attention that comes with these things is less helpful than just ignoring it. It feels wrong to me to ignore it, but I get what she means. If your DS is looking for attention then it is good to give it in positive ways - like reading time, building, whatever he likes to do so that he's not trying to find it in destructive ways.........

Hopefully he settles down when you get home! Good luck!

I say to my DS "When you calm down, I will talk to you." I do not discuss anything with him while he is throwing a tantrum. I leave his immediate area, if he follows I move again. If he keeps following me I say to him "I can see that you need my attention so calm down and I will give you a hug". This way I am not pandering to him, he is not "winning" as such, and I am showing him what behaviour is acceptable and what is not but at the same time I am there for him when he needs me. I definately do not give in to whatever had caused the tantrum.

I don't make my son say sorry. To me they are just words. By him calming down and accepting the situation that is enough for me at his age.

HTH

Hi,
I can hear how frustrated and hurt you must be, of course it's hard not to take these things personally, you love this little terror ;)
We have a time out area that is sectioned off with a baby gate and is completely apart from the living area. When ds is feral I calmly take his hand and walk him over to the door and in he goes in there and I come back after two minutes and call out "Sorry?" sometimes he will say no, in which case I go away and come back in another 2. It can go for quite a while (he gets his stubbornness from dp, I don't have the attention span) but eventually he says sorry, comes out, gives dd (who he has probably bitten to be put in there in the first place) a cuddle and says sorry.
I just can't let him win.
I seem to remember reading that they have more testosterone at this time than any other, so that may have something to do with it too.
Good luck, I'm sure it will pass, you just need to be consistent. Hard when it's not your house though, huh?

I will be watching this thread for ideas for my friend who is a single Mum to twin girls the same age doing the same things ... she is just beside herself & doesn't know what to do ... She has asked me for help but as my DD never did ' most ' of these things i honestly don't have a lot of advise for her but i want to help her desperately (they both bite & hit my DD when we visit them ... i even had one rip my hair out & badly scratch me) !!

............... I so hope you get some ideas from members here to help your DS and your sanity too :grouphug: xoxoxoxox

When my GS gets cranky he has to sit on a chair for a certain amount of time. This has really worked and he also knows we will also put him on a chair should it be needed when he is here.

Sure kids will push, but like us all, they need to know boundaries and know what the consequences are if they overstep them.

I can expand now I don't have a stereo tantrum going with both my children (in which case I held the door shut because my doors don't close properly).

So things are different with living somewhere else, the combined efforts of your family and you feeling like people are watching your every move will cause you to feel far more stressed tham usual. Especially things like hitting and spitting. That does have to be held in check for sure..but it's really not easy is it :hug:

If you can outwardly remain calm (even in the face of saliva!), and remove him from the situation (and the audience) it will go far. Right now he needs to know that no matter where you are, mummy will react the same way - by showing him that it's not ok. You are his sanctuary in the weirdness of being somewhere different.

I find in my household that giving a reaction, like raised voices, indignation etc only give rise to the next level of tantrum. If they hit, kick or go nuts - they are walked to their rooms calmly (whilst I scream my frustration in my head). When they are calm, they come out. Hugs or cuddles given and it's all over with.

Time out doesn't always work with all kids. Maybe the chair might work better for you (total exclusion can be hard on some kids) - with my son he needed a far longer time out than usual, because it takes a while to wind him down and any input can make it worse.

I'm not sure if a sorry is totally necesarry, some kids just REFUSE to say it and imho it's not worth semantics and it's a word. A cuddle and a love is just as good (again imho).

It can be hard to remain consistent when you are tired and overwhelmed..but do try your very best. In the face of other people insinuating I should smack my kids I just held my hand up in a 'shuudup' kinda way and continued along the way I felt worked best.

GL xoxoxo

Oh we've got the pinching, scratching, biting, kicking & weeing here too! No spitting yet, lol.

Problem here is that I thing DS is too young for discipline. I'm just not sure what to use. If he hits with something I take it away & tell him he's not to hit, but when he hears that word he swings at me!
He's only 20 months old. I'm not sure what on earth to do. I'e tried everything.

ATM I've resorted to intervention & distraction when its another child, & no attention when he does it to me. If I give him attention he'll laugh & do it again, or crack it & get worse. I'm preayng its just a phase. That he has no idea how to handle his frustrations yet, so he takes it out on me, & he feels threatened when he takes it out on other kids. He's been hurt by them & needs to get in there first to make sure they stay away from his toy or what ever he's worried about.

We are getting this daily with S at the moment (no spitting right now, but that comes and goes too). Not everything works all the time, but things I've noticed:

- he is VERY observant. He notices everything, from how I make my tea in the morning to whether M and I are arguing about something eg we bickered about something the other day, and S immediately took my side :doh: telling Daddy off, hmm, that was an eye opener! It wasn't even a real, yelling argument, either! So for him, the way others are acting around him would make a huge difference. I don't think home environment can be underestimated (so hopefully sweetpea things might improve when you move back to your own place)

- food is very important. Obvious, I know, but S tends to get so involved in playing and pretending and dancing and digging that he doesn't want to eat. I've worked out if I can get the food IN before he gets hungry rather than trying to convince him to eat when he's kind of past it, then behaviour improves a lot.

- yelling doesn't work for us. I've tried it, and he can yell as loud. And he screams, which I kind of draw the line at. So I just speak very calmly and quietly with him, and try and ask what it is that he wants, and most of the time he has to stop screaming to hear what I'm saying.

- when he can calm enough to tell me what he wants, then we negotiate :p I know you're not supposed to negotiate with terrorists, but this is how it works:

S: I want [insert request]
B: We're not having/doing [request] right now. You can play outside, or you can play with your train tracks.
[S screams, throws head about, stamps on floor, bangs on door - you get the picture]
B: S, do you need to go for time out to calm down?
S: NOOOOOO!
B: OK, so what do you want to do? Go outside or play with the train tracks?
S: Go outside!

And off he goes. This is a bit of a truncated version, obviously, and about half the time it ends in time out first :) Also I've discovered that the choices should both be ones that I'm happy with - sometimes he doesn't choose the one I thought he would and if I wasn't going to follow through on one of them, then I'm stuck with doing something I didn't really want to do!! Oops!

- we always talk about it later. I think that might be helping - it certainly helps with the washing hair phobia we're having at the moment. We talk about how hot and tired it makes him when he has a tantrum, and how sad we both get when he gets upset. I try to get him to understand why it is I won't let him do or have something, so it's not just arbitrary rules.

- distraction can be good, but only works some of the time. Plus he's getting wise to that and has a disturbingly good memory.

Sorry about the novel. I should add that as far as I've found, when it comes to changing behaviour, it's a long haul, and it alters gradually. Hope things are looking up... at least you know you're not alone!