When did it get better for you - attachment issues

Hi there,

DS is 1 month old tomorrow and we are still working on attachment. We start on the breast and when the feed is unsuccessful which is 95% of the time (goes to sleep or throws himself off and refuses to go back on) we end on the bottle (EBM) to ensure he is gaining weight. Then I express to make more EBM. The whole cycle takes about 1.5 hours (including burping, changing and washing the equipment). We do this every 3 hours. It gets a bit frustrating as I only have 1.5 hours to leave the house and get back so I have access to the breast pump.

We are working with LCs at the hospital and have weekly appointments. One LC and and a few BB members have told me that it does get better maybe around the 4-6 week mark. Other LCs have said there isn't a magic age but it gets better in the bubs own time.

I still feel in a grey area of not knowing if I should just be and exclusive expresser, move onto formula or continue in the hope there is improvement just around the corner.

If you had difficulties with attachment when did it get better for you, or did it? Was there any tricks or was it more to do with your bubs age?

:hug: :hug: The early days are so hard hey? You're doing a great job.

We had some horrible issues in the beginning too - and it took around 10-12 weeks for me to feel like we were really doing well.

I think what your LC saying about it getting better in your baby's own time is correct. Each little one is different. It's funny, I thought that breast feeding would come naturally and be *easy* but we both (me and DD) had to really learn it and it did take a while before we found our groove.

Don't forget too that the ABA has a hotline which is awesome 1800 6862686. Are you a member of the ABA? I found my local support groups to be really awesome too :)

I also find (even now and DD is one) that we didn't attach in the conventional way - when we did it the "textbook" way, I got horribly damaged nipples. Like I said before, we found our own groove and we do what is working for us.

:hug: :hug: You're doing great :)

Hey there

I had problems with both my girls (very, very long story) which in hindsight I put down to having large nipples and them having problems fitting it into their small mouths. Lactation consultants didn't tell me this, they just told me to keep trying which I found futile. Anyhow, because for me it was predominantly a size issue, it got much, much better around the 6-7-8 week mark and instead of attachment being a complete nightmare, it became quite easy.

It sounds like things are really tough for you at the moment :hug: I know it would be so much easier to have an idea of when things will be easier. I only had to express every feed for a few days when DS1 had a tongue-tie and it was so time consuming I don't know how mums do it for longer than that.

Unfortunately I think it is really variable - it comes down to what is going on that is stopping things from working well (and it might be more than one thing). With all the people you are seeing, I guess you have tried Baby Led Attachment and Susanne Coulson's Laid-back Nurturing? These would be the first things I'd suggest. Susanne's DVD blew me away when I saw how much difference the laid-back position and having baby diagonally across mum rather than in cradle hold made. Also the obvious checks for tongue-tie, high palate etc. Some mums have great success with an osteo, especially if it was a diffiult or instrumental (eg vaccum) birth. I think sometimes it's just a matter of bub getting bigger or supply settling down, but other times it's a matter of investigating until you find a solutioin that works.

I hope it's soon for you - I know how great it will feel to have feeding going well :hug:

Lisa B, I have written your post numerous times over the past 3 months lol! My DD has just hit the 12 week mark and attachment has only become easier over the past two weeks. I was in the same position of being so close to using formula too. All I can say is just try your best to hang in there (I know how hard that is) and things will only get easier with time. There will actually come a time when you feel like you can enjoy breastfeeding! :)

Isadora - thanks. I don't know how you hung in there for 10 weeks. That's amazing.

MantaRay - we don't really have a diagnosed problem. The latest theory is that because it was too painful for me and I had nipple damage when I left the hospital and we began to use a bottle that DS might have just developed a preference for the bottle. Yes I've been introduced to infant led and seen the DVD. I find the laid back position hard to get bub into the position. The DVD was beautiful and made me want to cry.

Fionas - I hope we can get it together in the same timeframe as you.

MummaSue - yes we can't do the text book way. In fact we use a nipple shield and I just let him get on the way he wants and then make some adjustments. I've been a bit reluctant to join ABA as I'm worried that I will feel like even more of a failure if I start going along to meetings and then end up bombing out to formula. I guess I feel like I'm mentally in no-mans land at the moment. Again, 10 weeks seems like such a long time to hold out for. You've done an amazing job to get through that.

It took quite a while for us, DD was born quite small so had heaps of trouble attaching and it wasn't till around 3 months that things became easier/comfortable. It is tough, really tough.. hang in there, I hope things get better soon :hug:

The only thing that really helped while waiting for her to grow was holding her closely and trying to support her head as much as possible so she didn't slip or drag on the nipple.

I also feel your pain and have been wanting to write a similar post.
DD2 is 6and a half weeks. We had issues getting her mild tongue tie snipped even though she was damaging my nipples and had to travel to Sydney which is normally a 7hr drive but with a newborn and a 2yr old much longer. We had the snip done at 4.5wks. I noticed instantly that DD could put her tongue out further but she still clicks during feeds which i now think is oversupply. I've been told that she has to relearn breastfeeding as she developed bad habits from the TT. I still have sore damaged nipples and am battling staph infections and possibly thrush now. I'm not supposed to use any teats as to not interfere with the relearning breastfeeding so have had DD on the breast the whole time feeding through. I EE for DD1 for 6mths so unfortunately bf doesn't come easy for me but i will continue to persist because i want this so bad and every feed i remind myself that the turning point is probably just around the corner. Take each feed as it comes. Set yourself little targets ie. i'll get to 6wks and see how it's going etc. I would definatly keep putting your bub to the breast. I did this at least once each day with DD1 even though i was expressing and found it helped keep the bond happening. It also helped keep my hopes up for a bf relationship to eventually happen. Her issues were anatomical though so never were resolved. I also never let anyone else feed DD1 the bottles of EBM for about the first 4-5mths.
Have the LC's done a proper assessment of your bubs mouth to check for palette problems etc? My LC told me so long as nothing anatomical is wrong it will happen eventually. So fingers crossed for both of us and lots of hugs as i do know what your going through.

It's great to hear stories of others bf relationships happening despite initial problems. I'm sorry if i hijacked your thread!

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I've been a bit reluctant to join ABA as I'm worried that I will feel like even more of a failure if I start going along to meetings and then end up bombing out to formula.

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Hun, I really want to stress that you are not a failure. In fact you are amazing for continuing through so much difficulty. I went to my first ABA meeting when DS was 1 week old and only just feeding with nipple shields. I only went out of guilt because a friend bought me membership and I felt obliged. I turned up hoping against hope that he wouldn't need a feed while I was there because I couldn't possibly use shields in front of all these "real mums" who "know how to breastfeed properly". As it turned out, going to the meeting was the best thing I could have done. My confidence was so boosted by all these people I'd never met before who thought that I was amazing for being able to feed at all with everything going on. I look back at that time differently now - I know I wasn't "failing", I was doing the very best I could. And so are you hun :hug: Pat yourself on the back for working through all these issues and not giving up. That is truly inspiring.

Lisa - just wanted to come in and add that I felt so much pressure (from myself) when I was finding it tough doing what you're doing - BF, expressing and EBMing to "make a decision godammit" about whether to continue, whether to exclusively express or whether to go to formula. I just found it so absolutely draining and frustrating to do three things in one feed. It's not easy although the LCs can often make it sound so straightforward.

I say do whatever it takes to have enough strength to fight another day. If that means throwing in a couple of formula feeds, so be it. I know that will go against the grain but I think it's better to do whatever it takes to stick it out for the long haul rather than throw everything at a sprint, if that makes sense. I should have given myself permission to give myself a break rather than torturing myself to make a decision because every feed was just so hard and I wasn't sure how long I could keep it up.

My story in brief: I stopped the BFing, expressing, top-up merry-go-round at 3 weeks with DD2 (attachment just wasn't working despite trying 8 times per day for 3 weeks). For the next 5 weeks, I exclusively formula fed - no BFing, no expressing. At around 8 weeks, I tried to attach again just for the hell of it. Easy as pie. But I had no milk. Then relactated (by expressing every hour for 2 weeks and taking meds) to gain some supply back. Then partly BFed and partly FFed for the next 3 months.

So .... there's more than one way to skin a cat.

DD is 8 weeks old and her attachment is still bad bad bad. Every feed is painful. She makes a clicking noise every feed. She has a disorganized suck and gets tired and sick of sucking quickly so she is never full so she feeds hourly. LC can't figure it out. Her attachment looks right it just isn't. I have had enough. But unfortunately she has just as much trouble with a bottle and chokes on every teat I have tried. She can't control the flow at all. So I try to offer her a bottle of ebm to give my nipples a break and she refuses it once she starts choking. So I just have to hope it gets better. I really hope it gets better.

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Hun, I really want to stress that you are not a failure. In fact you are amazing for continuing through so much difficulty. I went to my first ABA meeting when DS was 1 week old and only just feeding with nipple shields. I only went out of guilt because a friend bought me membership and I felt obliged. I turned up hoping against hope that he wouldn't need a feed while I was there because I couldn't possibly use shields in front of all these "real mums" who "know how to breastfeed properly". As it turned out, going to the meeting was the best thing I could have done. My confidence was so boosted by all these people I'd never met before who thought that I was amazing for being able to feed at all with everything going on. I look back at that time differently now - I know I wasn't "failing", I was doing the very best I could. And so are you hun :hug: Pat yourself on the back for working through all these issues and not giving up. That is truly inspiring.

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I just want to second what MantaRay has said. The meetings are awesome and a wonderful support. Everyone is lovely and have all had their share of difficulties at the start. It took me longer to attend the meetings, DD was around 4 months old and we had sorted our issues out with the help of BB and the ABA hotline - but oh how I wish I'd gone in the earlier days. Even just to sit and have a weep and have someone hold DD for me for a while. Hindsight is a wonderful thing......

Anyway, you're doing a terrific job! Keep us posted on how you're doing :)

Sue xxxx

ABA meetings are great and i don't think i would've gotten through expressing etc with DD1 for so long without them. Even when i couldn't bf at all anymore i still went because i made great friends and it was a social outing for me. I was never made to feel inadequate for expressing and the advice and support i received was invaluable. They will not make you feel like a failure because you are not. You are doing an amazing job.

Ladies, you are all amazing sharing your stories, difficulties, successes and just offering support to me. I really don't know where I would be without the support. Maybe I will look into the ABA meetings.

Jellyfish - it's fantastic that you hung in there for 3 months

Crystal - hijak away the more stories the merrier. All of the LCs I've seen have looked at his palate but I do have an appointment with a doctor that specialises in antenatal and breastfeeding. You have amazing determination to hang in with EE for 6 months. Very admirable. I hope your BF issues will be sorted soon. Yes we are setting small targets.

Mantaray - thanks for your encouragement and reframing things for me.

Fionas - your story is inspirational and I'm glad it worked out in the end. Yes the LCs make it sound easy and don't really see it as a problem that I'm almost housebound one told me that women of other cultures spend 40 days at home with people coming to them and then working women are so much on the go they find it hard to slow down. Although the same LC showed me how to go hands free on the pump and give bub a bottle at the same time...a little awkward but has helped so much as DS is not grizzly whilst I am pumping.

Mumof2boys - gosh your situation sounds really really hard. At least DS will take the bottle after failing to attach. I hope it gets better for you soon. You've struggled on for awhile now.

Mummasue - yes there's a good chance I would breakdown in tears at an ABA meeting.

Update from me: well the council breastfeeding support has basically said she's done everything she can for me and that my situation is unusual and hasn't volunteered anymore appointments. She had suggested that I get a paediatrician to double check everything is okay and perhaps seek support from an Osteopath. Good suggestions that I will follow up, but I feel like I've been lumped into the too hard basket. I also see an LC at the hospital I just hope they continue to offer appointments. I kind of need these appointments as some kind of goal post to get me through each week. They usually don't have too much different to offer but at least I have someone to sit down with, share the problem with and to give me some kind of hope things will get better.

Hun, I'm sorry to hear that you are still struggling. Would you consider seeing a private LC at all? Many mums who do find the money well worth it. The IBCLC qualified ones are trained and experienced in things like tongue-tie and high palate that many medical professionals and even some other LCs don't often come across. Just a thought but being in Melbourne you would have a good choice around you most likely. If you would like some help in finding one, please feel free to PM me or Barb with your suburb or general area.

Hang in there hun, you're doing a great job.

Lisa I so know how you feel, its such a tough time. Really feeling for you. Dont put too much pressure on yourself. This is your first baby right? With my first I was so overwhelmed by dealing with a new baby, let alone trying to make BFing work, that I put my baby onto formula. Today at 3.5 yrs she is such a happy, healthy child. Now that I am BFing my second, I am a bit sad that it didnt work out for my first, but I did what I had to at the time to keep myself happy, no regrets! With your second you are not as shell shocked and will find it easier to stick it out. I know how you feel because I felt exactly the same way less than two weeks ago. Its easy to feel like switching to formula is failing your child, the guilt is huge. But its so not. I have hung in there, but only just, so I really understand whats running through your mind at the moment. You can only do your best!

Oh Lisa, I'm so sorry you're not getting the IRL support that you need right now.

:hug: :hug:

It took about 6 weeks for it settle for me. I had a mantra going: If I'm still doing this tomorrow, it's a good thing. That got me through every feed. I wish I could say I dealt with my frustration like an angel, but I can't. There were times I yelled at Jack, at DH, at Mum. There were times I cried when it was time to feed him, and times I cried through the whole feed. But as bad as it got, it does get better. I felt like over night, we both just 'got it'. I hope the same will come for you through support and learning. Xx

As for 'dropping your bottle' at ABA meetings... well! I have lost count the amount of times I broke down at ABA or New Parent group. Even in the presence of women doing it tough, I still felt out of my depth! I was so anxious I was going to be discovered for 'faking it', and actually having no idea what I was doing. At those times, someone would hold jack, and let me have a cup of tea. it was heavenly. you'll see. :)