4 year old kinder - or 3 year old again? (VIC)

DS1 is late March 08 baby. He is small (height and weight).

He has been attending 3 year old kinder this year (well, really, it's just 3 year old playtime). He loves it. He always asks if he can go. I have been parent helper 3 times and I know he loves the structure and the variety and he genuinely seems to enjoy the routine etc.

He'll be turning 4 in March next year and is on the waitlist for a 4 year old kinder spot.

There seems to be immense pressure NOT to send him. Bearing in mind i am not a local, so the pressure i feel i'm getting is from mother's group and from the 4 year old kinder programme. I get the impression that they are struggling with numbers and would prefer less kids in 2012. There seems to be this magical date of having your 4th birthday before the end of december 2011, and then you are 'old enough'.

I realise that DS is small. He's capable though - very physically capable and certainly keeps up with his peers in other regards. And the start of next year is 5 month away, which is a lot when you are not even 3 and a half! I think if he went to 3 year old kinder AGAIN next year, then he'd be bored.

Is 4 year old kinder a huge step up from 3? I don't know any 4 year olds, nor have i seen a 4 year old group to 'compare'. I have no desire to throw him in to something he's not ready for, but I don't know about holding him back. I don't know that i'm getting a straight answer from anyone i ask.

This turned out to be a LONG post! Any advice appreciated!

Funding wise, in Victoria, if he was to do 2 years of 4yo kinder you have to apply for special funding. I think it's probably more about making absolutely sure that he is going to be ready for school the following year - rather than having to repeat 4yo, it's easier for them to repeat 3yo. And cheaper from the kinder's perspective too.

It really depends on the child. I know some children born in November/December who were already six when they started school. And I also know kids who were born in April who were 4 when they started. It's such an individual issue.

Personally - if it were me, (and having parents who were both teachers, my Mum specialising in gifted/talented and special education) I would hold him back another year. He's small, and he's a boy. You can extend him at home much better than they would extend him at kinder.

And if he does go to school - he's going to be 16 turning 17 in the March of Year 12. It makes such a difference at that stage. All his friends will be almost 18, he's going to feel left out, and academically and socially that extra year is massive. The maturity difference between kids who will be up to 15 months older than him, will be huge.

My brothers and I were all born in March, April and May. The cut-off dates for our years was June 30. My younger brother was at least 15 months older than some of these kids, and my other brother and I were a year older than some. There was a significant and noticable difference between us and those kids. They were obviously younger, both emotionally and physically, and there was a distinct difference in our academic achievements, even though we were from similar backgrounds.

However, I haven't spent much time with your DS and it's such an individual thing - you are his Mum, you are probably in the best position to make that decision. Good luck!

That's good Divvy, that's what i wanted to know. I guess I am thinking in the short term - his needs now. Not thinking about that fact that he'll be young at high school.
So, do we think it's better to be older and maybe need extension work at school than be younger and struggle a bit. I guess if i look at it that way, then yes, perhaps it's a good idea to hold him back.

My son is also one of the youngest ones in 3yo kindy (March) and he will be going in to the 4yo next year. Being bored in school isn't much fun either, and we felt that unless he was struggling we didn't want to hold him back. His 3yo teacher pointed out that he would be one of the youngest (and we had the impression that she thought it was unusual that we would prefer that he move to 4yo), but that "there were no red flags" that made it necessary for him to do another year at 3yo.
Next year we will see how he goes - if he needs to do 4yo kindy again then it will be more expensive for us than repeating 3yo, but so be it.

I'm not sure that there is a correct answer for this - more that you need to stay involved with the kindy (as you obviously are) and see how he's going.

My DD2 is a late March 09 baby & i've spoken to a lot of teachers and everyone of them has said i'm better off keeping her home the extra year.
They all seem to agree that do they fine up till High School then a lot of them start to struggle & fall behind.

My mum is a kinder teacher (has been for about 40 years now :o) who is also qualified for primary teaching. She always recommends that kids start school when they are a little older, in preference to starting early. Again, she cites the high school thing. With my DD she missed the cut-off to start school by one week. I could have pushed the point (as she was "ready") but I decided not to start her until the following year.
If you like, I can ask her opinion on whether your DS would be better to do two years of three-year-kinder or four-year-kinder....

Thanks to everyone for the replies. n2l - if you can ask, that'd be great, but don't go to any trouble.

Given DS1's size, DH has always said hold him back. I had to convince him that letting him go was a good idea.
You've given me lots to think about.
I googled montessori, because i know they have the 3-6 year olds together in one learning group. I don't know much about it, but my mum has done a placement in a montessori school in NZ and liked the whole atmosphere.

MOntessori is great, you will find that he will need to do the 4 year old stream in kinder to go to a Montessori primary school though so make sure you enrol early if you decide to go down that path.

I am not sure about the holding back from 4 being worse than 3 year old? I would think that going to 4 year old kinder 2 years in a row might be better because it is more hours than the 3 year old kinder? If the only reason you are looking at holding him back is his size I would have a chat to your kinder teacher as I wouldn't be holding back on size alone - yes boys do better in general if they are held back a year, but you need to look at fine motor skills (writing etc) as well as social skills, and academic skills. If he is developmentally ready in all those areas I would be inclined to send him to 4 year old kinder next year - in 18 mths he may have a big growth spurt and reassess at the end of 4 year old kinder, or this time next year.
Good luck hun - it is so hard to know what to do and I am a teacher, plus thankful my kids are born in May and October and the decision is sort of made based on when they were born!

Hi Lenny
my ds2 is a late feb baby and we could send him to 3 yo kinder next year but have decided to defer it until the year after.
have you spoken to his teacher about it? what is their advice?
personally, if i was in your position (without knowing your ds at all) i would be tempted to do 2 years of 3 yo kinder. reason being is that he will make friends there next year that he will go up to 4 yo with.

I agree with Divvy, as a primary school teacher myself I would be inclined to hold him back....we will prolly hold Connor back as well depending on how things are at the time. There is a good montessori kinder just behind Lloyd park here hun....it is not cheap but I have heard awsome reports about it.
Google Montessori childrens house langwarrin....

DS1 is late Jan, he turned 4 this year and is currently attending 3yr old kinder. He loves it but i do see he could have done with a little more stimulation (more so this second half of the year i have noticed) than 1 afternoon a week which is all our 3yr old provides. But having said that i'm really happy with my decision

After much discussion with various friends/teachers i decided to keep him back, i was aware that he may get a bit bored but i figured i am at home and i will provied the extra stimulation if i have to to get through that time. The thing i have been told most commonly about holding them back that extra year is that they may be fully capable academically but it's the social side of things that they can often struggle with. Hopefuly that extra year of maturity will be a benefit in many ways.

DS2 is March also and i have done the same thing, i have him down to hopefuly get a place in 3yr old kinder in 2013.

DD is Dec and i'm not too sure about her yet, they say they girls tend to be a little more mature but my SIL held my niece (March) back and she said it was the best thing for her.

I understand it comes down to the individual a lot but for me i have the option with each of my children and will most likely be taking it. I was 4 when i started school and struggled all the way until i got to Grade 3 and they decided to hold me back. Yes it may be been the best thing for me academically but my confidence really suffered. I'm just trying to avoid that right from the beginning for my children.

Good luck in getting a place, i'm in a similar area to you and it's not easy. DS1 was just offered a place in 4yr old at my first preference!! Yay :) I'm really excited for him becuase i know he's going to love it.

Happy decision making :)

totally agree with the others, hold him back!

This is good, thanks. DS is in the same boat as your DS Lenny. Same age and a little tacker. I hadn't thought about holding him back, but maybe now I will give it some thought.
We're looking at a Steiner school, but still haven't decided yet. I'm goign to try and see what teh playgroup is like first

DD2 is a feb baby and im holding back! shes very capable too but feel she will benefit from some more time with me, and being older at highschool, tbh if i had an march/april baby of either sex there is no way id send them!

DS is also a march 08 baby and we are currently having this discussion.

Lot's of people I know are keeping their LO's back. Some have had similar reasons to Divvy, for example if they want to do Hospitality it can be a bit difficult when they aren't 18 yet. I was born in march and so was OH and neither of us were held back so I was surprised that most people do now and I honestly didn't feel disadvantaged in year 12 not being 18. In fact seeing my cousin, who turned 18, in May in year 12 scares me more as she can go out whenever she wants to the detriment of her HSC year :dunno:

I think it is an individual thing but I am 90% sure that DS will be ready to start kindergarten (primary school here) in 2013.

It works a bit different in NSW and I had his name down for a preschool for 2012. He is currently going to long day childcare 3 days a week. I was offered 2 1/2 days at the pre-school next year and they won't offer me full days until he 'has' to go to school (ie, starting primary school in 2014 when he would be turning 6) but IMO it just isn't worth it. I know he learns academic stuff at pre-school but it's only 1/2 days and I think he will get a lot more from being at childcare where they do 'emerge' learning but not in such a structured way as pre-school.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth :D

My DD is an april baby. She attended 3 and 4 year old kinder at the same school she now attends (she's in grade 3 now). We chose not to hold her back on the advice of her teachers. She showed all the signs of school readiness. She is doing fine and we can now say that we made the right decision. The kids in her class are all older than her, some by a few months, some by over a year. She is definitely a leader socially and academically she is somewhere in the middle of the pack.

I have seen some of the younger kids struggle and the only other April baby in her class ended up doing two years of Grade 1. But I have also seen some of the older kids struggle, particularly with behavioural issues, because they are bored. The school is excellent at extending these kids but it is apparent that they 'fit' better in the year ahead socially and academically.

I think you have to trust your gut and take the advice of your DS's kinder teachers. Good luck with your decision, I remember it being a hard one!

How are you supposed to know whether your child is ready to start school at the 'usual' time at age 3? DS has never been near a school or a teacher. Oh, wait, his grandmother is a teacher, but anyway... :dunno:

We're giving our March '08 another year too Lenny. =) He actually doesn't go to 3 year old kinder anymore, he goes to Occasional Care, because you can get rebate for that, and while this year he does almost 3yo kindy hours (2.5 hours, 3yo kinder is 3 hours), next year I might send him for the 'full' day, which is 5 hours, so that will sort of be like graduating a bit, lol.

I started him out at 3yo kinder because he is so outgoing and social, but his teachers pointed out, in terms of maturity and things like controlling impulses and sharing etc, he still can learn a bit! And #1's psych said that in her experience, the ones who are 'held back' tend to pick up literacy a bit easier - I guess because these little ones have that extra year under their belt of developing things like their toilet training, social interaction, all sorts of social and physical skills, instead of having to learn it all at once.

If you want to stretch him, why not try a kiddy class of some sort? There might be some sort of art, tumbling, music, sport, library story time - even a playgroup, family day care or regular meet up with other friends with kids, just to give him even more time experiencing different stuff.