For the first time, breastfeeding is hard :(

I'm hating breastfeeding DS right now :(

With DD it was the easiest thing I ever did, I could never really even feel her on there. The only issues we had were with lazy attachment when she turned 1, causing cracks and an infection, and then a bit of latching pain when I got pregnant.

Neither of those issues compare to this though. It's been different with DS from the start, I've had to be more careful with watching him latch and making sure he's on properly, it always seemed like he couldn't open his mouth wide enough to get enough in. Now I'm in pain every time, I'm dreading feeding him and I cringe through the first minute. This morning it brought tears to my eyes.

It used to be just the left so at least I could feed on the right and get some relief, but now they're both agony. The skin on the outside bottom is very thin, he's really worn it down. It's like he rubs it wrong with his tongue or gums or something. I'm putting on lansinoh and breastmilk but it almost feels pointless, they don't have enough time to heal between feeds anyway.

I'm wondering if it's a tongue tie, no health professional has said anything but DH and I can see it. I'm wondering if maybe he can't get his tongue out far enough and that's causing the rubbing. I'm not concerned with DS himself - he's definitely getting enough milk, output and growth is good. I just don't want to be in pain every time :(

Every Bub is different hugs

Get checked for tongue and lip tie definitely and sooner the better. Maybe see a LC for attachment as well. Also it is possible that maybe you have thrush now which will affect healing and causing pain.

Oh no, that's no good at all! Get on to an LC stat :hug:
It's great to hear that he's getting enough milk, but this has to work for the both of you. If you're in pain, then something is certainly not right.

Teeki I know the feeling :( that dread of feeding is what I with dd1 :hug:

Do you go to the cyh centre near you? You can get a LC through them, also when you do your drop in appointment mention it to the nurse, they helped me a lot.

Had it been ok then got bad, or just bad from day 1?

:hug: Teeki

***hugs*** every bub is different with my first DS I dreaded feeds but DD was totally different. I hope Someone can help. X

I've never dreaded feeds like this, this has only been the last couple of days. It's always been different and I've been more watchful of him -sometimes his top lip doesn't flare out properly so I fix it, and that used to be the only thing that caused pain. But now it's underneath, and from what I can see his latch is good. He's got enough in his mouth, it's nice and wide, he's just doing who knows what when he's on there!

His four month check up is next Monday, I was hoping. I could hold out until then. If the pain continues like this though I think I'll be calling the local health service for help :( I'm not even sure if they have LCs out here, but the midwife I had for DS pregnancy and birth was very knowledgeable, there should be someone who can help.

He had a feed to sleep after I posted, and it was actually better than this morning thankfully. Now while he's sleeping and I feel fine it's easy to just want to dismiss it, but then I don't want it to hurt again next time. Think I have some phone calls to make!

Please make sure someone helps you. It sucks so much when it hurts. And it affects how well you relax etc.
Poor you xx

Oh lovely Teeki :( This isn't how it should be. Pain isn't normal, get thee to an LC stat.

If you think you can see tongue tie, def. get it looked at by a pro, if it is that then once it's fixed, and DS has had time to get a feel for / adjust to his 'new' mouth (and once you have healed) things should improve quickly. Also see a LC. Big hug in the meantime, DD didn't have tongue tie but had latch and position issues and I too went through a fear of pain/dread phase. It is very disarming emotionally/mentally.

Where are you Teeki? Is there an ABA group out there you could contact? Have you looked on lcanz.org? Otherwise I hope you can get on to someone. Don't wait, it's not likely to get better by itself (or it would have already).
The only other suggestion I would have is trying baby-led/laid-back nursing to see if that helps (if you haven't done that already).

Thanks everyone.

I've got an appointment to get his tongue checked at his 4 month check up next Monday. Thankfully we now have a wonderful Dr who I really trust so I think if his tongue is causing problems she'll be able to help. DH remembers our midwife mentioning the tongue tie and saying it's only minor, but if it causes problems to get it looked at. I mustn't have been paying attention because I don't remember it but he says that's the only reason he knows anything about tongue tie lol.
If that's a problem for him and it needs to be snipped, how do they do that? At 4 months does he get anesthetic? Do the nurses there doing his injections do it or do we need a hospital referral? Neither of us like the idea of it, the injections are bad enough.

I wasn't able to get onto an LC yet, I'll try again tomorrow morning. I've had a look at that site MadB and there's one that looks like she'd come out here. I think there used to be a more local ABA group but there were very few members, now there's just one closer to the city. Because things were so simple with DD I went and let my membership lapse. If I can't get directly onto the LC though I'll give them a call, I'm still getting their emails.

After he woke from his nap he fed four times. I offered the right first every time because it doesn't hurt much, but he kicked up a big stinky every time I tried the right and then when I swapped to the left he got all excited and latched straight on. The first three weren't too bad, it actually hurt less each time. Then the fourth time he closed his mouth a bit just before latching, sucked right on and pulled :( Mega ouchies and blood :(

So now he's had a bath, he's exhausted and hungry, poor bugger. He's having a feed and going to sleep on the right which feels fine, but when he's done he's going to want the left too before bed. I just hope the lansinoh and leaving it out has helped enough for that.

If there's a TT, then I'd suggest getting it snipped immediately, regardless of whether it's considered minor or not. To me it sounds as though there is likely some sort of physiological problem here. Some peads do it, or dentists, or LC may be able to help - you'll need to ask/call around. At this age, I believe it's a quick snip, no anaesthesia, but you'll have to ask them. If you can, maybe also get an experienced LC (or some other health professional with experience in lactation) to check for posterior tongue tie and lip tie, also, to also rule these out.

It's good to bear in mind that even if TT is the issue and you get it snipped, it can take a while for baby to relearn to latch without the tie, so it may not be an immediate fix (but it should get better with time). A skillful LC can help you with this process.

Aside from trying baby-led attachment, you could also consider seeing a chiro or osteo, in case there's some other non-mouth related issue. I don't know if there's anyone near you who has expertise with babies? It's something some mums find useful in these cases.

Thanks MadB. We always do baby-led attachment, from the start he didn't quite get it and needed help. At about a week old it kind of clicked for him and now I basically get it out and he does his thing lol. It felt odd at times but with a bit of correcting he was ok, now I'm really regretting not making more of a fuss about it, I just thought he wasn't opening up enough and it'd get better as he got older and bigger.

If I can get onto the LC tomorrow, how much could she go through on the phone? And how long is usually to an appointment? I'm a bit over an hour north of Adelaide. If she recommends getting it looked at earlier I'll go in to the hospital to speak to a pead I reckon. I don't think waiting a week is a good idea.

There is an osteo in the city recommended by a friend, she took her DD there, and there's one who looks at children and babies back where I used to live, half an hour away. If I still need help after this I'll give them a go.

Thankfully tonight he didn't want/need the second side. It might mean he wakes for a feed earlier but right now I'm happy I get a little more healing time.

ETA: Spoke too soon. Snuck in to change bras and he was in there poking his tongue at and just looking around at the room. Thankfully latching on wasn't quite as toe-curling as I was imagining and once he's going it's ok. At least now I have an excuse to watch The Block instead of going for a jog lol.

Also, DH is hating watching me feed right now (and listening to the swearing that goes with it lol) and wants to help. He remembered nipple shields from our ante-natal classes with DD - would these help short term or just cause separate problems? If tonight is anything like last night then by morning I'll be desperate.

The LC can talk you through what you've done so far and where you're at. She may also be able to give you further referrals for releasing TT, if you want that. As for apt times, it really varies. Don't understate the pain you're in when you talk to her :) Don't suggest it's getting better. Just tell her how it is for you when you feed; hopefully she'll be able to see you soon.
You could try shields - this is another thing LCs can work with you on. It's important if you're using them to a) still be looking at underlying issues b) make sure you get the right size and use them correctly (or can cause more issues) c) make a plan for stopping them (and obviously, this would hopefully dovetail with fixing the actual problem). At this point it may well be worth a try! Pharmacies often stock several brands - it might be worth getting a few to see which suits you best. It's hard to know about sizes, which is where the LC can come in, as well as trouble shooting their use and help with weaning off them.
I'm a big believer in making appointments just in case and then cancelling them if you no longer need them, so that's an option with the osteo (and anyone else you reckon might be able to help).
Sometimes mums can muddle through and things just get better, but it really just shouldn't be like this, you know? If your baby is latching themselves and still not getting it, then there's something else that needs addressing. Babies are born to breastfeed, it's what they want and need, and when they can't, there's a reason why. Good luck with your calls tomorrow.

Oh honey :hug: BFing pain is unbearable especially because you have to do it so often even if you're hurting! Everyone has given all the advice (and a bucket load more than I have) but possibly also consider DS has a small mouth/ bubble palette. I battled for such a long time with DD, took DS to see a LC at day 5 and she diagnosed DS's bubble palette and DD's as being much higher and a tiny mouth to boot. Only took 4 years for someone to 'discover' why I was always in agony. Huge hugs, if the lansinoh isn't helping there must be some awful damage atm :hug: Get some help and you will be bounce back before you know it.

DD2 had a posterior TT and we took her to an osteo and had fabulous success. i took her to someone in fitzroy...am happy to PM you her details if ya want :)

Thank you all for the advice and hugs, it means a lot.

To be honest I didn't help myself, breastfeeding was always the easiest thing I did for my kids, I was sure it would go away, not get worse. So it got pretty bad before I started with the lansinoh. Now that I'm using it consistently it's definitely helping.

I definitely won't downplay the pain - when I say it's better it's still not a pain I ever wish to experience again. It still has me gripping a cushion and gritting my teeth, but it's nowhere near the peak of this morning.

I think first up I'll call the LC in the morning. I'll book an appointment and see if she thinks I should go see the pead, though I think I might just do that anyway. At this stage I'm not too fussed about the osteo, and if I do need them they can do appointments quickly, they're quite small.

Thanks Cassius, but I'm in SA :)