trouble positioning & attaching - big BB's & short arms!

I'm currently using a nipple shield for inverted nipples with a 3.5 week old (my first). I've seen an LC and we've all agreed we'll keep the shield going at present. BUT I'm now finding it really difficult to position & attach him.

Just when I seem to get him on and attached well, he arches back and pops himself on. The other option is to use a death grip to try and keep him in place - but that doesn't feel right either! My assumption is that he's uncomfortable in some way which is why he's moving/popping off. After our LC visit on Sat we agreed I'd use cradle hold on the left BB and football hold on the right.

In the hossie, the middies suggested you should be able to carry the baby in the football hold. I just can't seem to. He's more resting on a pillow with my hand supporting behind the shoulders. Should I be able to pick him up in that hold? I'm fairly short (5'2") and got big BB's. My nipples are below the height of my elbows (woe is me, gravity loves my BB's far too much! :o), so I just feel I can't hold him, or it's taking immense effort to hold him. Oh and I'm sitting in a great BFing chair that is a good size for me, with a footstool, and typically using a pillow to support the bulk of his weight (but have played around with different pillow thicknesses & cushions etc). I've also joined ABA (for those who read my other thread) and I'm going to call my LC tomorrow to ask about this too.

Similarly in the cradle hold, I feel like i'm twisting to get my right hand behind his neck/shoulders but to line up nose to nipple I can't see a different way to do it. Has anyone else who's short with big BB's had this problem? Or is this just a learning to BF thing and we'll learn the best way to stick ourselves together over time? Obviously the shield doesn't help either, as once he's flailing, just as I get him lined up well with a good gaping mouth... one little fist knocks the shield off! I've tried feeding him clothed (average), swaddled (he seems even MORE agitated) and skin-to-skin (best result, but the fists are free!).

Love to hear your thoughts/wisdom, TIA.

I wouldn't worry too much about being able to carry him in the football hold.
Maybe get a BFing pillow to help.
I'd be pretty confident that the more practise you both have the better it'll get.
Maybe try laying down to feed him.
Good luck.

Hun, big BBs can make it really difficult, but it does get easier once bub gets a bit bigger and learns what to do. I have a friend who couldn't manage to feed without a bfing pillow until her DS was well over 1. I believe that LCs don't recommend using pillows now, but I know it really helped her. Have you tried feeding lying on your side?

I'm not sure what else to suggest, but I encourage you to stick with it. It will get easier. In the meantime you are doing a fantastic job. Hang in there hun. :hug:

:hug: Laying down could work, give that a shot. Do you think a mirror or something could help you see what you're doing? Let us know how you go with the LC.

Oh, and as for the flailing fists - I learned the art of pinning arms to their body while they attached. But you could always try starting with them swaddled, and then letting them loose once they're attached. To be honest, the easiest was when dh or a friend/relative was around to hold their arms out of the way so I could focus on attachement. How annoying are those little arms?!!

i have big boobs and need to support it at every feed so i have ds on a pillow to feed. If we r out i fold up a blanket for hight and lean him on that so i dont hold him a lot of the time as such, i cant do the let go of boob and put arm around baby thing as boob falls out if his mouth.

I found football hold didnt help.

i get a sore hand supporting boob

Thanks for the replies. I just tried ringing ABA earlier.
They thought he might have some nipple confusion which wasn't helping. Suggested I talk to my LC re cup feeding rather than bottle feeding. So now i feel guilty that I've given him too much bottle - but then I haven't managed to get him on successfully hardly at all recently - so then I don't want to starve him when he's screaming & hungry!

Anyway, she seemed to have some good suggestions. So I was all motivated. Plus I'd written a list of 3 positives about BFing earlier, and we'd written down what DH can do to help me (basically sit, cheer, hold fists etc). And I joined ABA. I'm so constructive, and I was feeling good/positive about trying another BF.

Anyway, we had an awful feed, I couldn't get him on (10 mins trying) - then just cried through the entire feed as I gave him the bottle - then ran out of EBM, so gave him FF. I'm trying so hard to do the right thing, but i end up bawling every other feed. Then I think that isn't helping cos I'm supposed to be all relaxed and positive - how i"m supposed to do that i don't know! Right now i just feel like giving up. My sister fed EBM for 6 weeks before she got hers on, then successfully BF for yonks. So part of me says it's not the worst thing in the world if I just express & bottle feed. It's just time consuming. And every time I end up doing a feed from the bottle then expressing to try and get enough - and i KNOW i'm not a failure, but emotionally... I just feel so yuck about it.

oh and i haven't tried lying down. S'one helpful (MHCN) told me it would be too hard with big BB's & shield. And right now i"m not feeling really positive about trying something new.... but tomorrow I might try. Maybe.

Sorry, midnight whingey post. Presumably I'll look at this tomorrow and cringe. Oh and I'm nervous re tomorrow cos it's DH's first day off at work, then he's out in the evening too. I don't think I can get him on at all without some help. But I can't really hire a fist holder for every 3-4 hours!!!!!

I have big boobs and very short arms. PM me your email and I'll send you pictures of some ways to feed with this hassle...

Hope you are feeling better today.

:hug: I hope you are feeling better today too.

You will get there, hun. :hug: as baby grows so does his little mouth and his ability to get as much of your bb in as he needs to. This is probably why your sister found it was better after 6 wks.

Good luck with your journey. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to get over this hurdle!

Thank you all for the encouragement, it really helps. The rest of the night was pretty awful and I kept feeling upset about it all (and didn't get much sleep between bottle feeding & expressing). I didn't even try to put him on during the night/morning. But you know you're not feeling great when you're sobbing away as you bottle feed and then realise that there's tears all over his little suit!!! :wall:

So today I rang my LC and she had a few suggestions, including giving him 40ml EBM to calm him a little before putting him on. She also suggested trying a bit of lansinoh under the shield and that helped heaps. The casual "flailing fist" was must less likely to knock it off. She also said to make sure we have lots of nice skin-to-skin snuggles. I realised that the last few days, all our contact has been trying to get on the BBs! No wonder he was starting to get antsy. She's also going to come out again, and is keen for me to massage under his little tongue & encourage tongue poke outs as much as possible for his little tongue tie.

So i tried again at 2pm on my own. And I GOT HIM ON!!! 16 mins on the left then 15 on the right. We had a bit of a leak on the left and I was thinking uh-oh bad attachment, but then managed to shift him a smidge and it righted! I focussed on getting him in good position, keeping relaxed, and moving my hand further down his shoulders (I think I was too much on his neck/head before). I also didn't worry about trying to hold his weight up at all, but just on trying to position us both well. Because he was WAY calmer after the 40ml, I found it much easier to do. He still was hungry after both sides, so we topped up with a smidge of EBM.

Next feed 5.20pm. Not quite as good, only 10 mins on the right and I don't think he got much (he was on & off). Gave him the bottle, felt ok.

Before the next feed we had big snuggles in bed, it was lovely. Then 9.15pm feed, tried to put him on straight away and he started to arc up. So we grabbed the 40ml EBM. Then, 25 mins on the left then 15 mins on the right. Cradle hold for both and put him down successfully with no follow-up EBM after the initial 40ml! YAY :bluecheer:

Oh and best of all - every attachment was just me (all using the nipple shield BTW). No-one was holding a fist or helping me to get him on. So that was thrillingly self-sufficient. And I'm actually feeling ok about trying to put him on again tonight. Even if some feeds are better than others, I feel now that a few good feeds wasn't just a fluke.
:hooray:
I CAN do this.
I WILL do this.
I AM doing this!!!

Thank you all again - I'm sure this isn't the end of our BF'ing support needs & journey. The support is just a lifesaver :hug:
Belfie

Yay! That little bit of EBM sounds like a great trick - he's not quite as frantic and desperate which gives you a bit of room there! As someone else mentioned too, the older they get, and the bigger their mouth gets, the easier it becomes.
Keep up the good work! :D

Belfie that is so friggin awesome! You are the best!
I know exactly how hard it is in those first few weeks - really hard. As for the positioning - the most important part is that he gets on and gets enough milk. I could never hold my baby like the midwives said as I too have big boobs and bubs was very long. I bf for 11 months, I always held my boob and he always lay on a pillow. Keep your eye on the ultimate aim - him getting fed - and dont get too hung up on what other people (especially non LCs) say you 'should' do. If it works for you then you should do it. One day you will just realise that the whole thing is easier and from then on it is a breeze.
Good job!

Hey Belfie,

Good for you! I had trouble latching ds on too at first. It actually got better the moment I was alone with him. Less pressure I guess. I too topped him up with EBM at first. But you know what, as soon as it was just us and I let him do it his way and tried to relax about it all, it went fine!
I don't have big bb's but I had engorged breasts al lot which made it harder for him to latch on too.

So my advise is: stay calm and find a way that works for you. If its easier to use a pillow or whatever to hold him in position, do that. Lying down worked really well for me.

Good luck!

Well done, Belfie. Take each bf, one at a time and do your best. It sounds like things are getting better, and the more you are able to feel confident and relaxed the more improvement you'll see. Be prepared for some not to go as well and just take a deep breath and try again next time.

You are right - you CAN do this! :hug:

You go girl!!!! .... and baby boy!!!!! :leap:

I have been lucky, my little fella opens wide and has beautiful kissy lips so no probs attaching, but I had heaps of issues with my DD and I don't even have big boobies!! :redface:

I always say that breastfeeding is a learned skill and not "natural" in that you really can't just put them on after birth and there you go!

Keep telling yourself what a great job you are doing - Xander will feel your vibes.

At least you can express - I have been hopeless this time around and can still only get off 30 ml :rolleyes:

Just think when we celebrate our bubba's birthdays on 25/09/09 we will look back and think, wow - I did it! Then start thinking about another LOL - not me - this is my last ;)

What a difference a couple of days can make - keep us posted how it's going lovey.

Woo hoo!! Well done hun. That's great news that it's getting better, and another LC visit will likely help even more. Excellent work. You are doing so well.

You go girl!!
Isn't it an amazing feeling when it starts getting better!
Congrats & good luck with the rest of your bfing journey. I hope its as long as you want it to be.