Try to improve DH's sperm or go straight to IVF?

:confused:DH and I are pretty confused over what to do and any help, advice or experiences you can share would be appreciated...

We've been ttc since April 2008 and recently got a referral to a gyno/fs. He's done some preliminary testing and the results have shown that I don't seem to have any issues (have had endo in the past, but things look good atm and aren't likely to interfere with my ability to conceive). However, DH semen analysis came back pretty poor. His count was 8mmol and TMU 21. The dr didn't tell us any other info, but said that means we're unlikely to conceive naturally.

He said if DH's results were higher he'd suggest trying 4 cycles of IUI first but the poor results mean that's unlikely to work, so he recommends going straight to IVF. He said we should start right away as the changes to Medicare next year mean that it's probably going to cost around $7000 extra per cycle (out of pocket expenses), while currently it's around $2500. That would make it around $10 000 per cycle!

He didn't seem to think there was much point in repeating the semen analysis as he didn't think there'd be much change. He said DH could try Menevit for 3 months and see if that helped, but said then we'd be cutting it fine to start IVF before it gets very expensive.

Is it likely we can improve DH's sperm naturally, and if so how? Or are we flogging a dead horse? Do we start IVF straight away? If we wait and see, we may only be able to afford one or two cycles but if we go now, we could get 2 or 3 cycles in this year while it's cheaper... See our dilemma?! :wall:

:bump::bump:

Hello,
I'm not sure of your financial situation, but I would try and not be rushed into any decisions based on your FS's presure to start due to the changes to medicare. I know that is easy to say, but making the move to IVF is a big and stressful decision.

Having said that, my DH and I undertook IVF (with ICSI) due to poor sperm, based on similar advice - that IUI would not work for us. My DH was not keen to take meds to improve sperm and so we pretty much went for IVF as our only option.

I know that menevit has helped some people, and there is no reason why your DH could not start it now anyway in the hope of having better swimmers to use through an IVF cycle. You could always start on that course and plan to do one cycle, and if his swimmers improve enough, but your first cycle is not successful, you could always go back to trying naturally or through IUI.

Good luck with your decision - I guess that if you are not comfortable with the advice you have got, you could always go with a second opinion.

Good luck
FG

IMO : I would take the advice of the FS and go for the IVF, I didnt listen to my FS initially, and went away for a year, I felt too pressured and couldn't quite get my head around needing ART.

I regret it now, I wont sugar coat it hun, IVF is a rollercoaster of feelings, however so is TTC naturally. Financially IVF is a burden, and imo you would be better starting sooner rather than later.

All the best with your decision, and I hope you make the right one for you in the end.

Hi hun,

I'm sorry about your current situation. I understand your anxiety hun, I have been there myself! My DF had a vesectomy done 10 years ago, and when we decided to have kids he decided to have it reversed in April 2007. 3 months later he was told the devastating news that the sperm count was almost zero. We still tried naturally until May 2008 in the hope of catching an elusive swimmer :redface:
Well we didn't, and my gynie/FS recommended IVF asap as I wasn't getting any younger. I was pretty devastated at the news, but in my heart of hearts I knew it wasn't going to happen naturally for us. So in May 2008 we had our first stimulated cycle with ICSI (again, we we recommended ICSI as it has a better fertilization rate) and we were so thrilled to get our very first BFP. Had it not been for a very stupid fibroid, I would have had a healthy baby boy in Feb this year.
We are currently awating a FET in two weeks time, as we have one more frozen blastocyst embryo on ice. I pray this one likes it in my tummy. I have had the big fibroid removed in Jan this year, so we are all set.

Good luck in your TTC journey hun, but I have to agree with wouldloveabubba, you could be waitng TTC naturally and having absolutely no luck. The vitamins might improve your DH's sperm quality but I'm not sure if they improve the count. One thing I do have to say, when I found out my DF had a snip 10 years ago I blamed him so much for taking away our chances of falling pg naturally. But in the end I realised I was really selfish and stupid about it, and have since given him lots of support . He must have felt so inadequate the poor thing :redface:

All the best to both of you :crossfingers:

B.

Hi jLeah29,

I understand you apprehension about going straight into ivf, but you might be just putting off the inevitable if you don't.

We had been TTC for 16 mths when we sought help. My hubby had a sperm count of 7million and morphology and motility that were borderline ok so we were reffered to the FS. When we saw the FS we found out that I also have PCOS. We wanted to do things as natural as possible. Our FS reccommended that we start with IUI and that IVF may be an option. We were reluctant to do IUI and asked if we could just do fertility drugs like clomid. Our FS said we could try this but it probably take a very long time to get pregnant. As were young (me 23, DH 26), we pointed out that we had plenty of time, our FS agreed that we had plenty of time but said that we shouldn't waste the time we have. So we went ahead with IUI and GOT PREGNANT on the 1st go!! During the few months before our IUI I made my DH take a zinc supplement to help his sperm count. I think it helped as on the day of our IUI his count was 11 million.

I think your DH should take the vitamins ( they can't do any harm), and if it were me, I'd go with the IVF now rather than later...... Who knows you may only need the one full cycle of IVF.

Stay Positive:D

All the best with your journey. It's worth it in the end.

Jellybean18

Hi JLeah29

I have read through everyone's comments and they are all very good points - loads of support in BB.

My DH and I have been TTC#1 since 2006. We tried for quite a while naturally, then I had all the tests and so did DH, nothing turned up for me but DH has low/poor count/mobility.
I think his count started about 5mil but has at times gone up to 21mil (varies a lot). FS recommended Menevit which we think has helped his count etc a little as well as giving up the ciggies.

We had a couple of tries with IUI, both BFN but because his samples are always so varied this is why our FS has now reccommended we go onto IVF. But if we hadnt done the IUI we wouldnt have known how varied DH's count etc could be so I am happy we did that first and gave it a shot.
So to cut a long story short, If i were you i would give IUI a go ASAP because everyone is different and it may be all you guys will need - it may work 1st time. And it is certainly a lot cheaper than IVF. It may give you some more knowledge on ART as well and your situation, even if it doesnt work.

Hope that helps. Hope you can make sense of it - im not very good with words.
Whatever your decision, I wish you all the very best and hope you get your BFP very soon!

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. It's such a help to hear your opinions when we are just so confused and in shock still.

Farmgirl - IVF IS a stressful decision and I really have no gut feeling about where to go. One minute I'm thinking, "No, I want to try a bit longer naturally" and the next I'm saying, "Who am I kidding? It needs to be IVF so the sooner we start, the better" :wall:

Jellybean - I think DH will take the vitamins no matter what. Congrats on achieving your pregnancy first go!

Loops - Wow, that's a huge variation in sperm count. Maybe DH should have his tests repeated to see if there's any difference??

Beata - I am trying not to blame DH, but part of me does feel it's unfair that I'm the one who'll have to go through all the invasive IVF stuff when there's nothing wrong with me in the first place! It feels unfair and almost wasteful even. And I know that DH feels like everything is his fault, and I feel awful that part of me is upset with him too!

WLB - Yeah, it's so hard just trying to get my head around everything, and it's all happened so quickly and taken us by surprise.

Hi JLeigh29

I can't really add a lot to what the others have said except to say that if you do decide to go down the IVF path the better quality the sperm is the better chance of success you have anyway. So no matter what I would be putting him on Memevit right now, and doing a google search on how to increase sperm quality. Things like, stopping smoking, drinking, cycling. Reducing stress levels (IVF won't help that one at all!), not having not showers or baths, ejaculating every 2-3 days (whether you feel like it or not - got to keep the boys moving through the system), stopping playing any contact sport, turning off the electric blanket, getting up and moving more if he sits down all day at work, boxers not briefs, and adding antioxidants to your diet all help - but this is in no way a comprehensive list.

Also, you may not know that it takes about 60-90 days for a sperm to grow - so what happened 2 -3 months ago plays a huge bearing on quality and quantity.

Good luck.

Thanks Muppity - those are all great suggestions. DH could definitely work on the stress part, and he sits down all day, but he doesn't drink (much!), smoke or cycle and has just switched to boxers - though he's complaining that he keeps sitting on/squashing things and reckons he's doing more damage now than before when they were 'contained' !:D

We've made an appointment with an IVF nurse for next week just to get as much info as we can, so are hoping that will help us make a decision. We still really don't know what to do, though...

hi we were told to look into ivf, my dh count was 8m and the drs were shocked because he was only 29 at the time, doesnt smoke, hardly drinks, wears boxers, eats pretty good, plays sports, got me preg 2 times many years ago,so there was nothing left for him to tell us to try.
i made some calls and he was put straight on menevit, and some vitamin c and a few months later he had another test done and came back 22m and every single part of his test was perfect.
so we arent sure if the vitamin c or menevit worked or if his stress levels were better, but what ever did it it worked wonderful.
now its back to paying attention to ttc.
id say give it a go before doing ivf, u never know.
the menevit seems to be the way men are going these days.
good luck
Jo

Thanks MummyJo.

DH and I, after much discussion and a long chat with the IVF nurse, have decided to give the Menevit and a few other measures a go for a few months and see where we go from there. I don't think either of us (but me especially) are ready for IVF at the moment. I still have hope that we might be able to improve DH's sperm and fall preg naturally and I don't think I'm quite ready to give up that dream yet. I think that we'll be ready for IVF when we know we've done everything we can (that's less invasive) for ourselves.

JLeigh29

I recently came across a new book written by a Dr from the UK which has quite a lot of information about supplements to assist both men and women in TTC.

From the list that is in that book I have my DH on Menevit, some amino acids, fish oil, vitamin C and a good quality men's multi-vitamin. I'm also on supplements. We are both on modified eating plans and there is advice about what to eat, not to eat, and exercise etc including reducing stress.

The book is by Dr Marilyn Glenville and is called "Getting Pregnant Faster". It costs about $30. I bought mine on-line. PM me if you want the details of the on-line book store.

It contains lots of information for people in your situation who are contemplating what step they should take next, with chapters about fertility testing and treatment options including alternative therapies to assist such as acupuncture.

Dr Glenville has decades of experiences of helping supposedly infertile or fertility challenged couples conceive healthy babies. We have done 3 cycles of IVF and have still got a lot of information from the book and would highly recommend it to you.

Whatever you decide, I hope you get your BFP sooner rather than later.
xo

Chez - Sorry I haven't replied sooner. For some reason BB wouldn't let me reply to your post (could post in all the other forums, just not this one! :wall:) Thanks for your reply.

It sounds like DH is taking almost all the supplements you mentioned except the fish oil, which he has, he just doesn't take! And he's started working on the stress and is TALKING about exercise (which is huge for him).

Does your book mention accupuncture for men or is it just us women who can benefit? DH is needle phobic, but if I had evidence it could be useful, I'd work on him!! lol

Hi JLeigh

Interestingly I have never read anything about AP for men and my TCM hasn't suggested it either. Might be worth asking about though.

It sounds like you and DH are doing all of the right things. I wish you lots of luck on your TTC journey and I hope it's a short one.

Cheryl

Hi there

I have been there and it is a tough decision.

We went through 2 rounds of failed IVF's. DH had the same issues with not good sperm. Our specialist suggested we try changes to our diets, and DH went to a dietician to help with increasing good foods in diet. Apparently there had been overseas studies indicating increased antioxidents helped - i can't recall if it was sperm condition or pregnancy rates. We also went to a naturopath who put us on strong doses of various supplements - they were much stronger than menevit.

She advised us to wait 6 mths until we tried ivf again, but impatient me couldn't wait so we embarked on #3. this also failed. Although, at the time we were told his sperm were looking normal which was quite surprising compared to prior tests.

We were then about to start #4 straight away, when we fell pregnant naturally. We now have a little miracle 9mth old boy - after 5 yrs of TTC.

I totally believe all the changes we made contributed to our success.

It is such an emotional roller coaster and nothing is easy - from the decisions you have to make to having to deal with people around you who keep getting pregnant. I have never cried so much in my life, when I was going through this process. I shut myself away from people who had kids as I couldn't deal with the pain anymore.

I was of the mind set that we had to do everything we possibly could so we went into everything ie the IVF, the naturopath, doing everything that might make any sort of difference and give us any sort of chance.

We know quite a few people who are still trying to get pregnant after many years and they are now trying what we did. One of those couples is now pregnant.

Anyway, you will probably hear lots of different stories.

Good luck.

Robyn

Thanks Robyn.

Well, DH has been on his new regime for almost two months now and on Sunday I got a :bfp: !! I know that may not be long enough to have improved his sperm much, but we certainly believe it has made some difference.

It's still very early days, but it does confirm we made the right choice in waiting to start IVF.
:)

Wow - congratulations!

Big congrats!

Thanks! Feeling pretty darn good at the moment!

Hi Jleigh,

The book The Natural Way to Better Babies - Preconceptual Healthcare for Prospective Parents has great advice in it for enhancing sperm health and motility.

Avoiding/limiting alchohol, coffee, sugary foods and chemicals are very important as sperm are so sensitive.
Have your hubby switch to natural/chemical-free personal care (ie Miessence), and an alkaline based diet that is as chemical-free as possible (organic and free of artificial additives). Sperm need an alkaline environment to thrive and so restoring the alkaline-acid balance (Ph levels) in the body to the optimum 7.4 will significantl;y enhance sperm health.

HTH!

XXX

Congrats JLeigh that's just fab news!

Big Congrats to you JLeigh!!:clap:

Wishing you the very best of health over the coming months.

Hi there - I thought i had already posted but I can't find it.

A big congrats:dance::dance::dance:

You will be feeling on cloud nine at the moment. Thoroughly enjoy it - it is that much better when you have waited and tried for so long.

Congrats.