VBAC / EBAC Discussion #2

Are you looking to have a EBAC or Empowered Birth After Caesarean? Looking for some support or have a question? Post your thoughts here.

According to the Birthrites website, the risk for uterine rupture in a VBAC is extremely low. They state, "The likelihood of uterine rupture with attempted VBAC is 0.5%. (0.2% uterine rupture, 1.1% asymptomatic dehiscence from case control studies). The risk of hysterectomy and perinatal death from uterine rupture are 0.05% and 0.07% respectively in hospitals equipped to provide rapid laparotomy. (Australian VBAC study)"

VBAC RESOURCES

Birthrites (Aus) Lots of info on caesareans and VBAC
VBAC.com - Provides childbearing women and maternity care professionals access to research-based information, resources, continuing education and support for VBAC
CARES-SA
Birth After Caesarean, Unlimited Possibilities by Caroline Daniels
Caesarean Birth...Making Informed Choices (Birthrites Booklet, AUS)
The Thinking Woman’s Guide to A Better Birth by Henci Goer - good section on VBAC and other important birth topics
The VBAC Companion by Diane Korte
The Birth of Aasha (DVD) by Tara and Garfield Darlington - a VBAC birth
Obstetric Myths versus Research Realities by Henci Goer

If you would like to have your name added to the list of EBAC'ers please email with the following details to *Shannon* - shannon@bellybelly.com.au or you can email Nellbe - nellbe@bellybelly.com.au or Kathryn - astrolady@bellybelly.com.au

EBAC'er-to-be

Forum Name:
Pregnant with: (second, third, fourth)
How many previous caesars?:
How many previous EBAC's?:
Obstetrician/Midwife:
Hospital/Home: (where, which hospital)
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: (support person, EBAC friendly Ob, books read)
Notes: (supportive care giver? unsupportive?)

VBAC Vets

Forum Name:
How many previous caesars?:
How many previous EBAC's?:
Birthing Order: e.g. Natural Birth, Caeser, EBAC, EBAC
Obstetrician/Midwife:
Hospital/Home: (where, which hospital)
What helped you achieve a EBAC: (support person, EBAC friendly Ob, books read)
Notes: (supportive care giver? unsupportive? tips?)

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EBAC'er-to-be

__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: Deejoy17 (Deeanne)
Pregnant with: #2
How many previous caesars?: 1
How many previous EBAC's?: 0
Hospital/Home: Maitland Public or Newcastle Private
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: Haven`t gone into all details yet
Notes: Matthew was born via c/s due to CPD which was diagnosed via a CT scan, he was also a big baby, wouldn`t engage and I needed a crowbar to open my cervix plus he was already 6 days over due, so a c/s was decided on.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: kirsty77
Pregnant with: Number 2
How many previous caesars: 1
How many previous EBAC's?:
Obstetrician/ Midwife:
Hospital: Kingaroy
Birth plans: Thinking about it again.Am going to stick to my guns next time round!
Notes: was induced as I was 7 days overdue.1 lot of gel and 23 hours of labour.Couldn't get past 9cm dilation due to they say small pelvis and Gemma's head bouncing around on my cervix, I say I was to stressed resulting in emergency c/s.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: gabbysmum
Pregnant with: second
How many previous caesars?: 1
How many previous EBAC's?: None
Obstetrician/Midwife: Public patient, whoever is on duty!!
Hospital/Home: Royal Women’s Hospital Melbourne (Public)
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: Looking for minimal intervention, I feel I don’t have a lot of choice as a public patient and will have to be as assertive as I can be on this.
Notes: previous c section due to breech which was not detected until 41 weeks, I was very disappointed that it was missed by the midwives earlier which gave me no opportunity to try to encourage her to turn at all.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: Christy
Pregnant with: second
How many previous caesars?: 1
How many previous EBAC's?: 0
Obstetrician/Midwife: Midwife
Hospital/Home: Redlands Public Hospital, QLD
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: A midwife team I attend, Doula, loads and loads of reading, supportive GP
Notes: Everyone I've talked with are so supportive. DH is the most concerned but happy to do whatever I want.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: Juliette
Pregnant with: Not pg yet - thinking of TTC in February '06
How many previous caesars: 1 (May 2005)
How many previous EBAC's?: 0
Obstetrician/ Midwife:
Hospital/Home: Kingaroy, QLD
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: Just getting my head around the possibilities at this stage
Notes: Previous c-section due to FTP/CPD (PIH & induced labour)
__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: kmh
Pregnant with: Number 2
How many previous caesars: 1 (november 04)
How many previous EBAC's?: 0
Obstetrician/ Midwife: Dr Rudy Lopez
Hospital/Home: Dandenong Hospital
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: Loads of support through a MCN at my mums group.
Notes: Previous c-section due to not dilating after 11 hours of labour and porlonged rupture of membrances and induced labour.





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VBAC Vets

Forum Name: Trish
How many previous caesars?: 1
How many previous EBAC's?: 1
Birthing Order: Natural, Natural, Caesar, EBAC
Obstetrician/Midwife: Private Midwife
Hospital/Home: Home Sydney, NSW
What helped you achieve a EBAC: Great support network, understanding and very caring midwife, loads of research done both online and by reading books on homebirths and waterbirths.
Notes: Do lots of research and know what your options are. Knowledge is power.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Forum Name: Mumofbundlezofjoy (Vanita)
How many previous caesars?: 1
How many previous EBAC's?: 1
Birthing Order: Natural Birth (twins), Caeser, VBAC,
Obstetrician/Midwife: Dr Simon ( vbac and csec)
Hospital/Home: Warragul hospital
What helped you achieve a EBAC: MUM, EBAC friendly Ob, lots of books, and info from websites read
Notes: WHATEVER YOU DO, _________RESEARCH
You are hiring the DR to do a job FOR YOU, and so you are in charge, More power to the birthing woman!!!!!!

HERE is where you left off...

Thanks Mate! I then realised I could do it myself ](*,)

Congratulations Dee

hi just wanted to join your little tread.

Forum Name: kmh
Pregnant with: Number 2
How many previous caesars: 1 (november 04)
How many previous EBAC's?: 0
Obstetrician/ Midwife: Dr Rudy Lopez
Hospital/Home: Dandenong Hospital
Birth Plans to help you with a EBAC: Loads of support through a MCN at my mums group.
Notes: Previous c-section due to not dilating after 11 hours of labour and porlonged rupture of membrances and induced labour.

Just wanting to join to get support off other people going through the same thing.

Dee, I'm so happy for you

Hey girls I've just been reading a book this last week called: A Thinking Womans Guide to Better Birth by Henci Goer. Its been good, somewhat empowering, but also gave me a good sense of the guilts for having an emergency c/s last time, like it wasn't an emergency....and if I had been better informed then I wouldn't have had that trauma. Then I felt really sorry for myself and had to put the book down. I started it again this morning and its going better now LOL... its amazing how you can read something that doesn't point the finger and still feel like its your fault or you didn't do the best for you & your baby. So its a great book actually and full of information and will help this next time around, BUT...if you are still feeling bad about a previous c/s, don't do it yet! LOL... my little book review ;)

Ooooer Christy, great you are reading it, fantastic book. It's great for first timers. but of course anyone can read it and get stacks out of it. It's not intended to offend anyone but has some hard hitting info in there which can be confronting. But definitely empowering.

Exactly Kelly, I am getting so much out of it. Like this week the hospital said basically that their "preference" is that I am continually monitored throughout birth and after reading I know I can make decisions on that even, so I don't have to stay in bed the entire time... (I may just stay at home ;) )

Same goes with one of my VBAC women (;)) she was told the *hospital* policy was to be continually monitored but her Ob, Lionel 'Vaginal' as he's known, was fine with only intermittent monitoring as usual. So if the hospital isn't on side, your Ob may be, but even then, YOU CAN JUST SAY NO! What chance are they giving you for a VBAC if you are on the bed continuously?! An unfair one.

I think women just need the information behind them and to feel they have knowledge in order to feel confident making their own decisions; like so many books I recommend do offer. I'm so pleased you are reading it and I only hope more will read it!!! VERY empowering if you want courage.

I am sure lots of people think I am a 'freak' for wanting a home waterbirth next time - but it's all from my own reading, learning, reasearching and and the great support I now have in the birthing world. It's no longer an 'unknown' full of risk, danger and fear, and I do not see birth as a medical event but a completely natural life event - as natural as digestion ;) There is a place for intervention and I am well aware it's not always rosy, but the problems often result from intervention (almost every intervention can be related to an epidural) and the genuine need for intervention is very low. So I trust my body and trust my babies ;)

Kelly, just sticking my head in to say "well said". I have some great books on waterirth. I had to buy htem from America as I couldn't get them here. Can't remember what they are called atm, but I will dig them out and find out for you.

I had so many people look at me when I say Tehya was born at home - on purpose. It's like if it happened by accident then thats ok, but why would you do it on purpose. People forget that only 100 years ago it was actually the norm to be born at home.


Take care
Trish

I find I have to buy them OS too, I have Janet Balaskas 'Waterbirth' book which is GREAT!

I actually expected my dad to freak out the most about it when I told him my plans, but he didn't bat an eyelid, seemed somewhat excited and said, 'I was born at home too, in front of the fire,' and he told me that 5 of his brothers and sisters all were, apart from one who was premmie and in hospital. His dad kept the fires warm and stocked up while him mum gave birth - how beautiful!!!!

ps. great to see you back Trish!!!

Kelly, I also have the book that you mentioned, as well as 'Choosing Waterbirth' by Lakshmi Bertram and 'Waterbirth - A midwifes perspective' by Susanna Napierala. I found reading all of these books gavve me something to take from each of them. Information is power and was trying to absorb as much infoabout waterbirths beforehand.

My Mum was so very supportive with my decision to birth Teh at home. When Mark said he didn't want to do it at home Mum offered her house.

Your Dad sounds fantastic. What a sweet story he told you of. If I were ever to have another baby it would be at home again. No questions asked --- hmm I wonder if that's why Mark doesn't want any more :)


Take care
Trish

Yeah actually its the hospital's policy, but the midwife said its basically the OB's who like women to be continuously monitored, and didn't say much more...

I actually don't have an OB. I have chosen to do midwife care with 2 visits from an OB at the hospital, one in 3 weeks and another at 38 weeks... so I won't have much to do with them at all.... (which is a relief to me).

Its great hearing about waterbirths too. I actually ordered my books from Amazon all from America. I just had them sent to my Mum & her post them out to me. I've got 3 more on their way... I think the reading has helped me so much in preparing for things.

Christy, I have the thinking womans guide on hold at the library - Kelly reccommended it, I can't wait to get my hands on it, have been doing a lot of research, Phillipa gave me some excellent links etc, not sure if she sent the links to kelly or not?

Can I also add to the must have list "Affirmations" I had the ones from the Hypnobirthing book printed out and copied and pasted allover the house, like the back of the toilet dooir, on the friedge and places where I would stare and read it iykwim? I swear this helped "program" my brain iykwim?

If anyone wants a copy let me know I'd be happy to share!

And ditto to what Kelly said about monitoring! Find out the policy and also make a "plan" with your carers so that they understand ie 15 mins ever hour or something, although I think mine was less than that ROFL! I don't remember its all a blur!

*hugs*
Cailin

oh yes please Cailin!! I'd love a copy of those!

Done Christy :) I think it really helped me soooo many times, especially when I started to doubt myself.

*hugs*
Cailin

Details all added Kelly and welcome! I wish you the best of luck for trying to achieve a VBAC

Also Christy - best of luck to you too chook...

Thank you girls for your support.

Cailin - I`d love a copy especially at the moment when I`m really doubting myself, I certainly blame my doubts on my original OB shooting me down in flames when I was feeling so empowered about a VBAC, I haven`t got back to that stage yet and hope to soon.

Christy - Your more ahead then what I am with my VBAC research, I`ve tried getting a couple of books from my local library but they don`t have them and can`t get them in, one I was in particularly was Silent Knife, unfortunately I can`t borrow it. Looks like I`m going to have to buy all the books that I want which is a bit of a nuisance.

Silly me read a few stories on uterine ruptires ](*,) and I`ve been worried about a UR ever since, I`m so silly as I wasn`t concerned about a UR until I read these stories.

Dee, it's possible to have a UR at any time, not just a VBAC, even during a caesar I believe. But the risk is so small and smaller than during a repeat caesar I am pretty sure. Don't read the bad stuff, read the good stuff, the ones that give you power...

If you want empowerment, try and grab a copy of the book I mentioned, "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth." Also ask your Doula - she should have some references or if not, know where to get them. I have a copy, so if all else fails let me know. You'll not only be back to where you were, but twofold and you probably will no longer give a rats about your Ob shooting you down. It will give you power baby yeh! ;)

Dee, email me your address I'll post my copy to you as I finished it today and my silent knife is getting here next week.... ;)

Oooh Christy I would love your thoughts now you have finished it! I am thinking of putting together a book review section if you would even be interested in that?

Sure Kelly no worries... I'd have to take a bit more time on that... do you have a list of questions or points that you want addressed?

Hi all have just email Kelly with that list of links that I sent to min. So she can know put the upto date version on the site for you all.
I am so pleased you have found it helpful Min.
Cheers

Hey girls

Have been thinking more about the upcoming birth of our second and was wodnering if there is any info on birthing positions. I mean when your trying to keep active what positions are best for helping your pelvis 'open' up the best? I have heard that kneeling is not good but squating is?I just would like to know so I can practise the positions so I can do them while in labour.

Kirsty - I just noticed your another one who was diagnosed with CPD, it`s ridiculous how many times they diagnose women with CPD then we find out later how inaccurate it is.

I haven`t as yet brought the Pink Kit but I think that shows you different positions, Kelly would be able to tell you more.

I brought a book called - Having A Great Birth In Australia, it`s very interesting and I can relate to so many stories in there plus there is a woman`s birth story in there which both Tiff and the Midwives at the Hospital were telling me about and the new OB I`m seeing has a few pages as an afterword in the book, I`m finding it very encouraging.

Kirsty, grab 'New Active Birth' by Janet Balaskas and it goes into making the most of your pelvis with positions :)

CPD is often diagnosed when it's simply a position issue... lots of posterior bubs in particular... so it's not that baby pelvis is too small or baby too big, but baby not in a good position to fit! :)

Hi Girls, thought I`d update you:

I had my 28 weeks appointment at the Hospital today to see my new OB, I was called in by a young man who I knew wasn`t my new OB, he then mentioned that I`m 40 weeks, 6 days pregnant :shock: Once I told him no I`m 28 weeks, he asked how I`m feeling if baby was moving, again I thought that was a silly question why not Are you getting plenty of movements OMG if bubs wasn`t moving they`d be hearing me!!!!!

I mentioned I was told I was meant to see Dr XXXXX, he asked why, so I had to explain that I was attempting a VBAC ](*,) He went and spoke to a lady she mentioned to him I will not see Dr XXXX till I`m much futiure on in my pregnancy, a different story to what I was told in the first place.

So up on the bed I got, BP seemed like it took 10 minutes to do, fundal height, what a laugh I could tell he had no idea what he was doing.

I asked about booking into Hospital - my reply: Oh not yet, it`s too early.

On the way out I had to ask when do I come back - 4 weeks, hmm again I was told from 28 weeks it`s every 2 weeks.

So all in all I was totally disapointed as I didn`t see the OB I was meant to nor the purple team of midwives,I have no idea who this man was, a midwife, Dr or whom, I`m sure he was still in training.

I`m still looking forward to my VBAC, I just hope I do get to see my OB before I go into labour!!!!

Thats exactly what the midwife told me Kelly. Its just the bub is in the wrong position and labour stalled. They have given me the go ahead for a VBAC(like they had a choice!)Midwives are so supportive of my decision its just the docs that worry me(all men)that want to induce me early blah blah.I put up a fight though so they said we'd discuss it further at my next appt.Why can't we just see midwives instead of the docs!AND I'm classified as 'high risk' because I want a VBAC.I was so mad when they said that.

oh kirsty me too! I got so mad that they labeled me high risk.... then today I saw the OB at the hospital for the first time & she said, high risk of uterine rupture & I asked her what the risk was for first time pregnancies & she said "about the same" Luckily this doctor was supportive of a VBAC, but I think mainly because her second was VBAC... the first was another story of "failure to progress" but the second was a VBAC so she was encouraging... hopefully I will get her closer to the date.

Owww swap docs Christy!LOL! I HATE being labelled high risk!

Hmm, I`m not classed as high risk at my Hospital, I was told I`d be a good candidate for the Birthing Center if I`d come in earlier as I`m not classed as high risk even though I`ve had a c/s.

How do they induce you with a VBAC if you need to be induced?

The Ob reptured my membranes but I was already in first stage labour, and I was leaking fluid, we just wanted to give things a bit of a kick off, but other than that I dont think they will induce if you are a vbacer. Do you know inductions cause more UR's than vbacs?? I am talking first time mums no history, and the induction is soo forceful on the body it causes a rupture.

Vanita thats interesting... no wonder with being induced I was stuck to the bed.

Thanks Vanita, so if bubs needs to come out asap and they can`t induce they`d do a c/s????? Not that I`m wanting to be induced at all I was just wondering what do they do if bubs needs to come out.

Just had a thought about my own Mum (Vanita when you mentioned inductions and UR`s) , when she had me - I was a footling breech birth, they tried everything for 2 weeks to try to turn me, in the end they induced Mum with the syncotin drip, they ended up turning it as far as it could go to give things a move on as the OB was going to play golf :rolleyes: Makes me shudder what they put both Mum and myself through.

:rolleyes: Yeah as far as I know if there is a "medical emergency" and bubs needs to come ASAP, they willl automatically do a repeat csec.
I know what you mean about what they did to your mum, but they are still doing it this very day!!!! I had the drip put up with the twins, coz they wanted me to deliver before theatre closed for the day, JIK. :eek:

My mum had us all at 10 days post date ( 3 kids) BUT with my sis they wanted to induce her coz she was 39. She delivered my bro #1 in under 3 hrs, and me ( #2 10 pd 4) in under 2 hrs. In the end they ruptured her membranes, and she wouldnt let them near her with anything else otherwise shed"spit her lungs out" my sis was born in 20 minutes - from nothing, membrane rupture then birth they both were very sick coz of shock, and I really disagree with inductions "just coz" I know we all want to meet our babes ASAP and they last few weeks of pg are hell, but the Dr's dont inform us enough of the risks and implecations when it comes to voluntary inductions,
Sorry get off my soap box now, LOL

How is everyone going? So quiet in here!!! :)

Kelly - it is very quiet in here, perhaps everyone is busy preparing for their VBAC`s :)

As for myself - I saw my VBAC Dr for the first time on Wednesday, I walked into the room and the very first thing he said to me was - I`m happy for you to have a VBAC and very confident that you can successfully - talk about boosting the morale, I was walking on cloud 9!!!!!

Anyway he went on to say how CPD is misdiagnosed and very few women have true CPD, he mentioned I`m a small person but not overly small to not be able to give birth vaginally. He then asked how long I was in labour for, as DH says the Dr`s eyes popped out of his head when I said I didn`t go into labour due to OB`s advice, silly me I neglected to tell him how my OB wanted me to go down the same road this time due to CPD etc etc, I think he would have collapsed!!!!!

He seems very nice and mentioned next time he sees me we`ll draw up a birth plan so we both know what`s going to happen - How good is that :)

He said he`ll let me go 2 weeks over then if nothing`s happening he`ll most likely break my waters, but he`d like me to go into spontaneous labour myself and wants me active - yes, yes, yes that`s exactly what I want.

So I`m one very happy Mummy :)

WooHoo we need more sensible ob's like this, looking forward to hearing of your successful, empowered birth!!!!!