What else can I try?? I need something that works!!

:wall: Frustrated, tired Mumma here.

My DD is nearly 13mths old and since 11mths has refused to be fed to sleep. We are BF'ing and she used to feed to sleep. Well, her day sleeps she won't do this the last 2mths (night time yes she does) so we had to resort to lying down with her until she drifted off to sleep.....

Now.... DD won't even do that.... she climbs all over me, climbs up onto the bed head and bounces up and down, blows raspberries on my tummy etc.... (which is cute but not when i need her to sleep!) and basically resists all feelings of tiredness she may have.

DD can just go and go and go and go..... she has no 'off' switch..... :rolleyes: even after a bad night like last night, waking 2hrly, she will last alllll day until she goes to bed and thats with a struggle.

So.... at the moment the only way to help her get to sleep is by putting her in her cot and telling her its sleep time now and walking out, when she gets upset i go back in, lie her back down and try again.... this can take ages. If after 15mins it doesn't work I pick her up and take her out....try again later. OR if she's really distressed I will take her out. I can't stand the screaming and crying and we do follow the gentle parenting styles anyway.

I'm at a loss :(

:help:

Night time sleeps aren't good either but that's for another thread..... please any suggestions for day sleeps for a 13mths old who won't feed to sleep anymore and won't let me lie with her... oh, and she won't be rocked or patted to sleep either.

hun the cot thing is what we did at around 9 months, still do if needed, though if she gets upset i dont leave the room,i lay her back down and stand at the end of the cot near the door, she can still see me, i just keep laying her down, if i stay she generally stops getting up and goes to sleep, thats usually only for day sleeps, nights she feeds to drowsy then goes down, she has two blankies she takes and cuddles to sleep

My DS is the same. Sometimes we've hit on things that help, but we still basically have the same problem.

How many day sleeps? - could she be transitioning to one and be not quite tired enough for two?

Will she sleep in the pram or car...? We started walking DS to sleep and still often do for day sleeps - it's often the only thing that works.
Stories and singing also help sometimes. Boring, repetitive, chanting-type stories...

I have just strated playing music in DD's room. she has gone from being a nightmare to put to sleep, walking, rocking, feeding, patting to lying down listening to music and going to sleep. I can not believe the difference it has made. I play anything from Bernard Fanning to Alison Krauss.

It was my little miracle, but i am sure it's not everyone's. Might be worth a shot though.

ohhh great idea JM!

Nope she still very much needs 2 x sleeps a day. She has a morning one for about 1hr sometimes a bit more and then her arvo nap is usually 1.5-2hrs long. She needs 2 naps in the daytime as her night sleep is so bad.

I have left Sarah McLachlan playing in the room on the i pod just now.... but she ended up falling asleep next to me finally....
She does feed to sleep 'sometimes' during her day sleeps but only if she's cried and that's exhausted her... :(

This sleep stuff is so hard at times. I always 'go with the flow' but when your DD is 13mths and you can't remember the last time you slept more than 3hrs straight.... it gets a bit much!! :doh:

Plus it doesn't help when you are around Mum's that have babies that sleep "all night long" arggh!!!!! LOL!

I find that if DD isnt "full" or just had something to eat, she will fight sleep to. Mayb try changing your routine around a little bit so she has something to eat before she goes down.

Music is a good idea, it also helps DD wind down. Ive been playing musc for her since about 6 months old. I just got a couple of them cd's from kmart.. i think one is lullabies and the other is rainforest sounds.

13 months was around the time DD went from having her 2 X one hour sleeps to just one 2-4 hour sleep. Not saying you have to do that, just something to think about. Mayb an hour every sleep isnt enough for her to get into a deep decent sleep.

Hows her room? eg.. temp.. darkness etc..

Reading your post, i feel shes having trouble winding down. Going from being an active toddler to "you need to go to sleep now". Mayb she needs some encouragement.. eg, TV off, massage.. etc.

Just throwing some ideas out there HTH and goodluck xo

Yeah, it sounds like she needs more of a wind down - the trick is figuring out what will help her to do that.
I remember when a breastfeed was all DS needed.... oh, those were the days! We're still struggling with this too, so interested in any other ideas you get. I'll have to try music I think.

I take him for a walk when he's tired and he's out like a light within 5 minutes (sometimes it's 1). But if we try to put him down for a sleep... IF it works it takes 20 minutes minimum...

At bed time we have a bath, walk, books, lights out then.... 1.5 hours of stories, singing, cuddling, crying, exasperation until finally he conks out.

yep - we've just been through this - we moved her to a mattress on the floor up against her wall so we could lie down with her and be a barrier at the same time to get around it but found the same thing after a couple of weeks. Good news is she got over it for the most part and will got to sleep (in a single bed now not the cot) on her own especially through the day, but mostly now I got for a nice evening walk with her in the pram at bedtime after her bottle, and put muslin cloth over the pram and she goes happily to sleep and DH moves her to bed a couple of hours later (at night) through the day just leave her in pram if she's not gone on her own in the bed. Does your DD like the pram?

I remember with Pip I'd put his rocker in front of a window and he'd watch the leaves on the tree move, that would settle him / wind him down. Guess you're already trying the low light approach in the half hour leading up to sleep?

Thanks girls... yep we've tried all that.... helping her to wind down, no tv on, not making her laugh and get excited etc... she's just a very 'highly active' bub and always has been. Has always found it hard to relax and unwind (a bit like me I think :rolleyes:).... we have a good bedtime routine and it's going well lately...she's been really good and not taking too long to go to sleep... but day time.... we are struggling with day time settling at the moment.

She likes the pram but not always... she does fuss at times and most of the time if I am to use it as a means of getting her to sleep it can take an hour of walking to get her to sleep and then after that, she will quite often wake up when i go to get her out!!!! (she always has one eye on me i swear!!! LOL!)

Hmmmm.... maybe I'll start doing the massage again like I used to....

Is she still wrapped? Maybe that will help?

have you tried giving her a comforter?? i gave DD a blankie for sleeptimes at around 6 months when o worked out she loved to have it on her face when we fed in bed, its just flannelette (she actually now has two in bed) she cuddles then, as soon as i lay her down the hands go out to locate the blankies, she rolls on to her side and cuddles them close and goes to sleep quiet quickly, worth trying!
i also take it in the car if i know we may be out around a sleep time, she falls asleep easier then too

IKWYM Ren. DD sometimes feeds to sleep, and sometimes I have to rock her. Luckily the rocking still works for me. I would love her to be able to go to sleep herself. She doesn't take long at all when I rock her, she knows it's sleep time and closes her eyes. But she would never do that if I put her in her cot! I think the problem is she doesn't know that if she lies down and is still she can go to sleep. And I don't know how to teach her!! She just will not stop. As soon as I put her down she's up, walking round her cot, yelling out, jumping around. Just lie down!!!!!!!! AHHHHHH!!!!!!!

So I'm no help, I don't know how to teach her how to go to sleep!! But I can sympathise. You'd think they'd be tired after the crappy night sleep!! :hug:

Nope we stopped wrapping at 11wks... DD hated it!!!! :lol:

Olive - I love the idea of a 'comforter' but she doesn't seem interested in any of them that i've offered... although she has lately taken a liking to one of her dolls so maybe i should put that in with her more often.... we have some flanelette wraps that i could use as a comforter they are so soft.... thats a good idea. I might try that as of tomorrow :D
And now that its getting cooler (soon anyway) it will be nice for her to snuggle with it.

DH and I read DD 3 night time books as part of her night time routine so we decided today that as of tomorrow we'll start reading her 2 or 3 books before her day sleeps. Quite books that are going to help relax her and unwind her..... as part of her daytime nap routine time (not the same one's) and only these books will be read before her day sleeps...... we've never bothered with a daytime nap routine but perhaps we need to introduce one now.... help calm her down.

Will let you know how it goes as of tomorrow! :pray:

we had very similar problems with DD at about the same age. i would end up trying to put her down for her day sleeps and she wouldnt go and would just end up being awake for HOURS...then her night sleeps she would take three hours to get down with rocking, pacing etc etc...She ended up dropping the second day sleep, it made such a difference, i didnt think she was ready cause she was so young and her night sleeps were so bad but she went right back to feeding to sleep for both day and night sleeps and her night sleep improved almost right away, went from waking three plus times to once or twice!! her new afternoon sleep time was 10am till about 1pm. Good luck

So perhaps she may be transitioning from 2 day sleeps down to 1.... if she is, then I will just need to go with the flow..... however let's say she falls asleep around 10am (she's rubbing her eyes, getting cranky etc so i put her in bed and she falls asleep next to me) but then wakes again by say 11:30am.... she'll definitely need another sleep that arvo!!!

So... should I try and hold off letting her go to bed until say 12pm? By that stage, she'll be so tired she won't fight sleep as much!!!! drag it out then hoping she has a big 2-3hr sleep in the middle of the day like 12-3pm would be good..... ?

Is this what others did when their baby transitioned to 1 day sleep? Interested to hear how it all works and how do you get them to have the big sleep in the middle of the day not the morning or arvo????

Oh hun it sounds crap!

You have been given some awesome advice, but I wonder if perhaps you gave yourself a holiday from thinking and trying things. What happens if you just do what you want and dd has to fit around? So she may not sleep in the day and that might improve the night, or she may have one sleep or she may go to bed later.

then in a few days reassess and see if you can see a new pattern...

You're such a great mummy!! Squishy hugs to you!

if you try the blankie pop it between you and her when you feed for a few days so she gets used to it,
i really hope it works as well for you as it does for us :hug:

i was going to suggest the same as olive. i am trying to find something for DS that he can use to comfort him & he's loving his maz taggie blanket so now i put that between us when i'm feeding him to sleep. he reaches out & plays with it while he's feeding so i'm hoping that brings a nice calming, sleep association for him. i know you're not feeding to sleep for her day sleeps but if you still are at night time, maybe if you do it for those feeds for a while?

do you use music as well? i started feeding to sleep because DS doesn't seem to have an 'off' button & if we just put him down he either screams or just rolls over & starts crawling around & thinks it's playtime. but he's drifted off in DP's arms to music (a piano version of metallica songs of all things :rolleyes:) twice in the last week so we're going to try playing that in his room (when i get him out of our bed!) at sleep times...might be something that helps your DD to relax a bit?

sorry - not a lot of advice from me...i'm trailing along a few months behind you with similar sleep issues!

Ren- that's what I do if I want DD to have one day sleep, just keep her up a bit longer and then she has a longer sleep and sleeps better at night too. She's transitioning, sometimes (like now when she's teething) she REALLY needs 2 sleeps, and then a couple of days a week she only needs 1 sleep.

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So perhaps she may be transitioning from 2 day sleeps down to 1.... if she is, then I will just need to go with the flow..... however let's say she falls asleep around 10am (she's rubbing her eyes, getting cranky etc so i put her in bed and she falls asleep next to me) but then wakes again by say 11:30am.... she'll definitely need another sleep that arvo!!![/I]

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Its diff for every baby but this is my experience. Ds dropped to 1 day sleep at around 11 months. He always seems really sleepy in the morning so will be up for 2-2 & 1/2 hours max in the morning and then will have a 1.5 hour-2hours sleep at around 9/10ish (depending on when he wakes up) and that is it for the day. Iv tried to put him down for a sleep in the arvo on occasions but he just wont go to sleep. If i try and stretch him to lunch time he will only sleep for about 45 minutes and it makes for a very difficult day. He will then go to bed around 6:30 7ish for the night.

when DD transitioned from two to one sleep a day we did hold her off until 11.30 at the earliest. once she was in that pattern we found that she naturally progressed until just after a 'normal' lunch time (we used to give her lunch before her 11.30am sleep) so she didnt wake up because she was hungry but woke up because she was rested IYKWIM.

Ok.... so I look like a liar today!! :lol: DD was getting tired so I lay in bed with her just before and she had a feed as she was begging for it, kept saying "boo boo" and pulling at my top (how could i say no?!?! :lol:) so she fed and i read her a book (part of the new day time sleep routine thing!) and had our new 'blankie' between us and she played with it and then drifted off to sleep!! took 5mins!! Easy!!! Why can't every sleep be like that?!?! haha
She rarely feeds herself to sleep so she must be tired.
We did have a restless night tho last night (like most nights!).

I'm guessing she will sleep for 1.5hrs now as she usually does this time of day.

In relation to the transitioning to 1 day sleep. I do feel she is transitioning and has been for a few weeks now.... If she has a good 2hr-3hr sleep in the morning say 11am-2pm then she is well rested and doesn't need another sleep. But if say she only sleeps for 1.5hrs now, i know that by this afternoon she will be soooooo tired and want to go to bed around 5pm!!! But then it won't be easy to get her into bed that time anyway and i wouldnt want to. (too late).

Cassius- you're right in what you say about giving them lunch before their big sleep of the day to fill them up so they aren't waking up too early due to hunger. That's why i'd love DD to have her 1 sleep of the day hopefully around 12-3 that would be ideal i could give her lunch before hand. But like you said... i think they just gradually fall into that time slot of when it happens i guess.

I've never been one to force my DD to sleep at a certain time so I guess i just have to keep going with the flow while she transitions.

Oh awesome!! Hope she keeps it up!

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Oh hun it sounds crap!

You have been given some awesome advice, but I wonder if perhaps you gave yourself a holiday from thinking and trying things. What happens if you just do what you want and dd has to fit around? So she may not sleep in the day and that might improve the night, or she may have one sleep or she may go to bed later.

then in a few days reassess and see if you can see a new pattern...

You're such a great mummy!! Squishy hugs to you!

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Anna, sorry i missed your post!
Do you mean just let DD stay awake ALL day and not sleep? I dont think i could do that as a) I'm so tired from the previous night wakings and need my rest away from her and b) she would be sooooo cranky all day with no sleep!

Did you do this with your DD? What happened?

She sounds really active lil girl....what do you do to fill your days ?? i.e maybe she's one of those kids that needs to get out, that needs to be running around a park, going for walks, visits to play centres etc....maybe you need to tire her out more /.......I know she is up 2hrly...and yeah, i agree with you, how can she survive on what she is surviving on, but she sounds like one of those kids that just has so much energy... - she needs to burn it off.

My girls went off #2 sleeps around 12 months, although Dd#3 was 8 months, but that was because we were always in and out and she just never got to fit two sleeps in...

We usually did 1230ish till 330ish...never before 1130am, and never after 4pm...

GL....its been a long journey for you hasnt it ????

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Cassius- you're right in what you say about giving them lunch before their big sleep of the day to fill them up so they aren't waking up too early due to hunger. That's why i'd love DD to have her 1 sleep of the day hopefully around 12-3 that would be ideal i could give her lunch before hand. But like you said... i think they just gradually fall into that time slot of when it happens i guess.

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yeah it was a bit quirky at first having her have lunch so early (like 11ish), but somehow it works and they do naturally progress (as they get more used to spending time awake and happy) to a more normal sleep time of say 1-3pm...

When we first transitioned to 1 sleep I had to keep DS up a bit longer, as he wanted to go to sleep at 9am, but woudl be shattered and miserable by mid afternoon (but refusing to sleep again, of course). I gave him lunch aruond 10:30-11 and he had his nap around 11-11:30. Oh, but then he would have a second lunch too...;)
It was a struggle for a while, as he would ocasionally fall asleep earlier (like in the stroller or car if we went out), but over time he's been able to stay up longer so will generally go to sleep anywhere from 11 to 1pm (or not at all... but you know...). I try to avoid later arvo sleeps if we can as he then stays up later at night.

From this time he reverted to feeding to sleep for day naps - he was knackered and really needed 2 sleeps, but refused, and so would fall asleep very quickly at the breast.
We also found that around this time, he started to have a longer day sleep (1.5hrs or longer) which was a nice change from 30-40 minutes!

I haven't read everything but I would look at moving from 2 sleeps to 1. When I did this with my girls at around 12 months I brought their lunch forward to 11.30/12 and then put them straight to bed. I found that they both settled easier and slept for 2 to 3 hours.

When you do this you will still have to set up a wind down routine like book and lie down/pat etc. If she starts acting up I would keep telling that it is time to sleep and I would leave the room. I found by staying in the room my 2 wanted to play and muck up too.

You might find that DD gets a big grumpy in the arvos but she may go down better and earlier for you at night. hth...and hugs

oohhh how long did she sleep for???

DD plays with her blankie too!

She slept for 2hrs....! She normally does sleep about 1.5hrs in the mornings but I have noticed the last few weeks actually her morning sleeps getting longer... so perhaps that's a sign she is ready for 1 sleep? She may have slept a bit longer than 2hrs but we had to go out at 1pm today and I was being a bit loud in the kitchen so she'd stir and she woke happy so i think she'd had enough sleep anyway!

Yeah DD quite often falls asleep in the car in the mornings if we are out around say 930am she'll fall asleep for 40mins if in the car.... so that makes it hard if we are out that day to try and make her wait until later for one big sleep!! :rolleyes: but I guess with time that will change she won't sleep as much in the car in the morning and will wait....

Mbear - Yep she sure is active!! We do LOTS of things together daily.... we do swim classes, music classes, mothers group, ocassionally playgroups, go on the swing outside, chase around the loungeroom together, lots of different stuff!! So she's definitely a well-entertained little girl!! :D
Yeah it has been a bit hard with DD's sleep since about 8/9mths!! Before that, she was a pretty good sleeper with night sleeps but her day sleeps were off.... then she switched around LOL

BekZ - yes i find you have to leave the room sometimes and come back otherwise she is just too giggly and wants to play!! :lol:

So DD has been up since that 2hr sleep this morning (she woke 1am, its now 6pm here) and she's so happy!!! SO i guess she only needs 1 sleep now???? Some days maybe more.
I don't know how she does it, waking often in the night time..... you'd think she'd need more!!! LOL!

I'm looking at starting night weaning soon so that may improve things at night time. The constant BF's every 2-3hrs is driving me bonkers!!

Hey Ren! Long time no speak! Ive missed ya :p

Just wanted to say when we cut DD down to one sleep a day it was the best thing ever. She was a shocker until she was 14 months old. Now she is not.

She goes to bed at 11.30 and sleeps for around 2-3 hours, then we keep her up til 7pm, bedtime.

When transitioning her to the one sleep I just slowly moved the morning sleep later. I founjd that she "was" having 2x 40 mins sleeps, so when I swapped her to one, she slept longer.

Also re the night feeds.....I was giving DD night feeds til she was over 14 months, I just kept doing it, and she stopped on her own. I never thought she would, I had images of me feeding her in the night when she was 16! Lol.

Are you back on fb? Havent seen you for ages! Hope you are well x

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Also re the night feeds.....I was giving DD night feeds til she was over 14 months, I just kept doing it, and she stopped on her own. I never thought she would, I had images of me feeding her in the night when she was 16! Lol.

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Hey Skye!! Nice to see you still posting in here! :D
Was your DD waking every 2hrs to feed??? It's very tiring and draining... and it's EVERY night.... and I really need more sleep so I am really thinking of this 'gentle night weaning' advice I have to try. It seems very popular around BB and other forums too.
I want to keep BF but just not between 11pm and 6am each night!! thats time for mummy to rest!!

Thanks for the tips. I think I will try and push her morning nap to 1130 instead of 11am like it was today gradually then 12pm then eventually a 1pm time would be good so she could have lunch before hand.... but i guess it all just happens gradually.

I'm feeling alot better now about all this!!!! I can see why DD was fighting her arvo sleep so much! I wasn't sure if she was ready or not but I can see now she is :D

eta - went to bed easily tonight again... however she is pretty good settling to sleep of an evening anyway! But she sure was tired as she's been awake since 1am!

Thanks for your help everyone. :)

So glad things are looking better for you ren. Re my post, i just meant I have really relaxed on the day sleeps and only put dd down if she's askng (pretty much what you described...patting boobs lol) and have found a new rhythm with one sleep and two sleeps alternating days. The days she only has one sleep make for a much better night, with seven hour stretches sometimes (I know...unbelievable)

GL with the night weaning!

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So glad things are looking better for you ren. Re my post, i just meant I have really relaxed on the day sleeps and only put dd down if she's askng (pretty much what you described...patting boobs lol) and have found a new rhythm with one sleep and two sleeps alternating days. The days she only has one sleep make for a much better night, with seven hour stretches sometimes (I know...unbelievable)

GL with the night weaning!

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Anna that's awesome you now get 7hr stretches! Way to go. You give me and many others hope :lol: hehe
I know you haven't always had it easy with your DD's sleep at times either!

Yeah that's a good approach. I like that. Depends on the day and what is going on for them also.... sometimes they need those 2 sleeps.... other days just 1 big sleep will do them... I parent out of instinct also... not by watching a clock or anything so yeah I guess it's just a matter of continuing following DD's lead.

So for now... I'm in the mind frame that DD is probably only needing 1 big sleep (2-3hrs) out of her whole day and that's enough. But flexible in case she may need 2 some days.....!

PS! I am sooo undecided about this night weaning.... the thought of DD crying for ages puts me right off!!!! Even though I'd be with her.

It sounds your new routine (1 x sleep) may work...

GL too with the night weaning...i found i just offered it less around 12mth mark (but i was pregnant too), and gradually they lost interest.

Im sure you will never forget the 2hrly wake ups....maybe return the favour when she's a teenager.....vacumn at 8am or something LOL....GL hon....

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You have been given some awesome advice, but I wonder if perhaps you gave yourself a holiday from thinking and trying things. What happens if you just do what you want and dd has to fit around? So she may not sleep in the day and that might improve the night, or she may have one sleep or she may go to bed later.

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ANNA!! Thanks for this post!!!!!! Last night was hell again, at least 6 wake-ups (teething) and I got the ****s and thought well stuff this, if I'm not going to get any decent sleep at night buggered if I'm going to make sure you get good day sleeps (i.e. giving her 2 sleeps and resettling if she doesn't sleep long enough), I give up!! LOL.

So, DD woke up at 5am! We went to the shops this morning when she would have already been asleep. I wouldn't normally go bc I would be thinking it would be terrible, she'd be cranky and whingy, etc. She was fine, and at the end (10.30am) while I was walking out to the car, she layed down on my shoulder and went to sleep!! Just like that!! Put her into the car (which she hates and will NEVER sleep in the car, maybe twice in her life). She woke up a bit and cried a bit til we got moving, then just put her head back down and went to sleep!! Got home and transferred her to her cot, and she didn't wake. It's almost 12 now and she's still snoozing!!

I gave up on the nights ages ago and have been much happier and feeling well rested since. I should have known to have the same approach to day naps too!! So that is it! No more trying to get her to sleep, if she wants a sleep she will eventually get tired enough that she WILL sleep, I have seen that now.

Thanks :hug:

Sorry to hijack Ren!! LOL. You know how bad my DD has been for day and night sleeps so if it can work for her it can work for your DD too hey!! Hope you're having a good day today!

Yes Ren, some nights she was waking up every 2 hours, sometimes every 3 hours.

I will never forget it and was desperate for some sleep, I called sleep schools and sleep consultants!

I would really try the one day sleep for a while and see how she goes, you have to give it a week or so though...

I also agree with the not trying thing, after a while I just gave up trying new things etc. It did my head in lol