Is This Fair Or Sour Grapes?

OK, so we had an incident a couple of months ago where 16-year-old DSD was meant to be babysitting DD for a couple of hours during the day. It all ended in disaster with DSD going out for coffee with a friend and manipulating our 96-year-old next door neighbour into babysitting DD.

So since then we haven't trusted DSD to babysit DD.

DSD also used to babysit a friend of mine's kids. I initially explained what had happened to my friend and said it was up to her whether she wanted to continue to use her.

I guess in the meantime, I've become incredibly frustrated that we can't, or rather I won't, ask DSD to babysit DD. This makes life difficult in that this pregnancy has left me very immobile with pelvic instability. I can't walk very far and have been housebound for the last 11 weeks and will be for the remainder of the pregnancy. DP has worked 13 out of the last 16 weekends. In normal circumstances, I could ask DSD to take DD to the park for an hour so that she gets to run around and I get a break. But I just don't trust DSD. She's just as likely to take her around to a friend's house and shove her in front of the TV.

Anyhow, that's not my issue.

The same friend called me yesterday. I missed her call and she emailed me today saying that she was after DSD for babysitting but she'd found someone else so not to worry.

I'm probably also peed off that this friend only phones me when she wants something, I offered her my place during the day when she was renovating and there have been no reciprocal offers even though we were living with two square metres of living space for five months plus she also knows that I'm housebound but has not once offered to take DD to the park with her two kids.

So I sent her a note asking her not to offer DSD any more babysitting because I don't see why DSD should be able to earn money babysitting elsewhere at a time when we really need her help here but feel that we can't trust her.

D'you think that's fair or d'you think it's just sour grapes on my part. Obviously there's sour grapes involved too but I think it's fair enough to deny DSD a source of income for babysitting when she can't be trusted here.

Sorry it's so long :(

Sounds very fair to me. She needs to earn your trust back and be helping out in her family before helping others to earn money. Good luck with everything :hug:.

Regards,
Dianne

Sounds fair to me, I dont see why she should be paid to look after someone elses kids when she cant look after her own half sister.

I think it's fair too. If she was in the workforce and did something like that she'd be fired. it's a good lesson you're teaching her Fiona.

The thing is, I haven't told DSD that she's banned from looking after other people's kids so there's no real lesson learnt there. I should but there's just been too much going on and there didn't seem any point adding fuel to the fire when it hadn't cropped up before now IYKWIM. Things are quite topsy turvy, DSD is talking about moving out as she doesn't think I want her around and I wanted to discuss all this in family counselling but our appointments have been interrupted by DSD's Easter trip home to the US.

I guess I'm more peed off with my friend for even asking when she knows about how we don't trust DSD AND she knows that this makes life difficult for us.

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I think it's fair too. If she was in the workforce and did something like that she'd be fired. it's a good lesson you're teaching her Fiona.

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...If she is actually teaching the lesson...

I don't have teenagers, so feel free to ignore me! lol But honestly, sounds to me like you are upset and angry and personally I don't like the way you said to your friend when the incident happen that it was "her decision to use DSD again or not" and now you are asking her not to outright.
Your trust issues are not your friends issues to be had or carried. You need to address them with DSD. If you are simply preventing her from working for anyone else because you have issues, I think it send the wrong message to DSD - especially if you haven't informed her you have asked your friend not to ask her to babysit until you feel she can be trusted again.


Appears you need to talk to your friend and work out those issues and work on keeping those issues form your DSD's trust issues iykwim.
:hug: Must be tough for you at the moment, I hope DSD will come around and help out and you can all relax and settle in a little bit further.

Limeslice - I think I admitted in my first post that I have issues :)

Sorry Fiona if I wasn't very articulate, I have a 2 year old jumping on me lol.

I was just trying to answer your question "D'you think that's fair or d'you think it's just sour grapes on my part."

Yes, I think it is sour grapes, and no I don't think it is fair if you are not communicating the lesson. I know you acknowledge you have issues - and they are what I was referring to. I think the two issues are beng confused and clouding each other.
I apologise if I spoke out of turn. :)

No worries Limeslice. Absolutely no offence taken.

The thing is with teenagers things change from day to day, their attitude, their behaviour, it's hard to keep up as a parent. Yesterday DS14 was going to a sleepover at his mates house on Friday but because of his attitude this morning he is now no longer going. I suppose what I'm trying to say is sometimes as a parent we say something but the next day it can change. So as Fiona initially told her friend it was up to her about the babysitting things can change in between. I think it's important that you tell your DSD exactly where she stands as far as the babysitting.

Regards,
Dianne

You're right Dianne. When I initially said that to my friend, I anticipated rebuilding the trust with DSD quite quickly. Owing to a few other things that have happened, that trust hasn't been rebuilt.

In fairness to me, this is the first time she's been asked to babysit (and she doesn't even know that my friend wanted her to babysit) in three months so with all the other stuff going on (health issues, pregnant, selling house, buying house), it hasn't been top of mind to talk about something that was a hypothetical ie. "IF you get asked to babysit again, you can't." Does that make sense?

ATM, I honestly have limited energy for working through things. I know that I should but my priority is staying sane (not easy given present housebound circumstances and partner working most weekends to boot) and on looking after my health enough to manage to stay out of a wheelchair around the house at least.

DSD has become a much lower priority lately than she has in the last three years.

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...If she is actually teaching the lesson...

I don't have teenagers, so feel free to ignore me! lol But honestly, sounds to me like you are upset and angry and personally I don't like the way you said to your friend when the incident happen that it was "her decision to use DSD again or not" and now you are asking her not to outright.
Your trust issues are not your friends issues to be had or carried. You need to address them with DSD. If you are simply preventing her from working for anyone else because you have issues, I think it send the wrong message to DSD - especially if you haven't informed her you have asked your friend not to ask her to babysit until you feel she can be trusted again.


Appears you need to talk to your friend and work out those issues and work on keeping those issues form your DSD's trust issues iykwim.
:hug: Must be tough for you at the moment, I hope DSD will come around and help out and you can all relax and settle in a little bit further.

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I agree with this. It doesn't sound fair. You are chopping and changing the rules, without warning, all because you are emotional and then you are trying to justify it after the fact to make yourself feel better about doing so.

You are hurt and cranky (understandably) at DSD. If you wanted to make an issue of this, you should have done so at the time. It is not fair to treat her one way after the incident and then change the rules again later on.

You are hurt and cranky at your friend. You are trying to punish your friend, by taking something away from her. And you don't want to feel bad so you are trying to justify it as rational reasonable behaviour. It's not. It is tit-for-tat.

Both of them would have good reason to be p'ed off with you now. But then your aim does seem to be to make them as cranky and hurt as you currently are.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you did say you wanted opinions.

The situation only arose yesterday for the first time in three months. The rules have not been discussed in the last three months because the situation hasn't arisen. I don't think that constitutes chopping and changing misty - I would think it's revising the situation based on current circumstances. How many people remember to talk to their kids about the rules for something that may or may not happen? It would be like saying, "if so and so has a party in six months, you can't go because there may be alcohol there." If my friend had contacted DSD directly and arranged her to babysit, I would have just said, "sorry, you can't and here's why." It's not like I'm trying to be covert about it, just that I haven't had the conversation because I can't be arsed addressing something that hadn't yet arisen. Sorry, few other things on.

Anyhow, point taken that I may not be being at my MOST fair and MOST rational but I'm also only human and I think most people would be irked by a friend who knows of your current difficulties, makes no offer to help and doesn't call to see how you're going but DOES call when they want a babysitter fully aware that DSD is not the most reliable. I'm not a saint and that DOES annoy me.

I don't see it as punishing the friend at all. Fiona needs to think of her DSD first. If I was that friend I would be ringing Fiona to ask if DSD could do the babysiting and take it from there. I would totally understand the circumstances of Fiona saying no. As she is only 16 I would be checking first with Fiona anyway and not DSD.

Regards,
Dianne

I just think that if you are saying she is not able to babysit because of a particular incident, then this should have been mentioned to her at the time. 3months is a LONG time in the world of a teenager.

I agree you have a right to be upset and untrusting of your DSD, but you can decide to suddenly extend/create a punishment for something that happened 3 months ago.

If I made a mistake / done something wrong at work, and I was told immediately what the consequences were - fair enough, I would cop it on the chin. If however three months down the track my boss suddenly decided to slap another punishment down and tell me that it was because of what happened three months ago - I would not be happy....

Absolutely Diane, but the issue I think Misty and myself were alluding to isn't the friend broaching Fiona or DSD. It is that at the time DSD broke Fiona's trust, Fiona passed the concerns on to her friend and left it up to her friends judgement if she wished to use DSD for babysitting her children again. It was only when (and how much time had elapsed is irrelevant) that friend called again to enquire about DSD babysitting that Fiona said what amounted to "I don't trust DSD with my daughter, so I don't want you to trust her with your children either".

Misty: I feel that was said a bit harshly. Fiona is in a very difficult time emotionally and physically and it's hard to be 100% clearheaded at times like this. I agree that Fiona did ask for an opinion but that doesn't mean it can be said without tact ;)

Fiona: I get where you are coming from. I have depended on my 15yo DD many a time to help with my 2 young boys... especially at times when my Graves disease has flared up. When there is no extended family around this is just what you need to do... and I can completely understand how much it would hurt to have a friend only call on you when they needed the very thing you need yourself! Also raising teenage daughters is so very tricky. Like you said: sometimes you just want to let the dust settle... their emotions truely do rule the entire household... so much more so than a small child's does. I don't blame you for waiting until a particular issue arose before dealing with it.

I would essentially go with your plan. But i would also make an attempt to communicate to both people the reasons why you are struggling and why things have to be the way you have decided. People who do not suffer pain like your pelvic instability often forget that this is a huge and constant issue for you. Also your upcoming auction and relocation are going to be extra huge stresses. Be firm but fair. Their noses might get out of joint but at the end of the day YOU are the most vulnerable one in this equation. I'll be in touch ;) :hug:

Hi Fiona,

I am sorry to say but i do agree with Misty. I believe that you have decided that DSD cannot look after your daughter and you did inform your friend of how she let you down. So therefore it should be your friends decision whether or not she will allow her to babysit her child.

I also think if she takes her for a walk or to a friends house that gives you a break whether DD is sitting in front of the TV or not, it gives you a break and her a change of environment.

I think that should also keep in mind that she is also 16 yo and has a busy social life. It sounds like that she has been alot of help to you in the past and has let you down on the odd occacsion. I do think you are overreacting a little bit but i think you should ask her for help when you require it. Please keep in mind that there are other things she would probably prefer to be doing and if there is something she has already planned she shouldnt have to put it aside to look after her baby sister.

I am sorry this is a little harsh but i don't think you are being fair. You should be grateful for any help you have and will recieve from DSD and put the past occurance in the past.

Thanks Bath - as always, you're spot on. Different day, clearer focus and I'll concentrate on the REAL issue that needs addressing which is slightly different to this one. May need to start a new thread for that one though :).

Sour grapes? that might be a bit harsh on yourself I think...

TBH I do think perhaps your decision at this point might be clouded by your emotions & feelings on it? (Don't know if that makes sense) but heaven knows I have made similar calls with my DD.

I think Bath has great advice - stick with your decision but be clear with your friend & DSD about why it is.

And ITA with Dianne - I reserve the right to change my mind on decisions I make based on what happens in the meantime. We have been over & over this with DD - if I agree that you can go somewhere & then I find out there is no parental supervision (for example) I will change my mind.
So then looking at your situation in that context I would see it as fair, as long as everyone understands why it is that way.

:hug: I really feel for you and wish you all the best with your DSD

ETA -

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Also raising teenage daughters is so very tricky. Like you said: sometimes you just want to let the dust settle... their emotions truely do rule the entire household... so much more so than a small child's does. I don't blame you for waiting until a particular issue arose before dealing with it.

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Argg! Sooo true!

Sorry but in Fiona's defence I am quite shocked at Sleepyljm's reply. If your child was being babysat by a 16yr old and she left your child with a 96yr old lady how would you feel. How is a 96yr old supposed to chase around a 2yr old child, I can tell you now that I would not allow my 16yr old to babysit again until she can prove herself to be responsible, it would be very irresponsible of me to allow her to babysit again, especially someone elses child. This is family and DSD needs to put her family before her friends. My eldest is nearly 15 and has many times looked after the younger children for a short amount of time as we do not have family or babysitters and if he has already had plans he will ring his mates and let them know that he will meet up afterwards without any complaints. Maybe in 15yrs or so when you have your own teenagers you will see this very differently.

Regards,
Dianne

Fi. I think your friend is a bit of an idiot personally...

If she knows the story of what SDD did and STILL wants her to care for her child.....AND if she never calls you except if she wants something I'd be annoyed too.

I'd feel weird for a few reasons. I'd be worried that SDD would do something silly again, and lets face it...what she did last time was terrible and I really feel for you, because no matter what I know you would have felt some sort of responsibility there.

I think what gets you (and it would me) is that it would be nice if SDD could have learnt something about trust here. Like, yes babysitting could have been a nice earner for you dear, but because you stuffed it up so badly no one will trust you. Then some dork comes in a buggers up the lesson.

Never mind the bollocks Fi xoxoxo

Thanks for getting defensive on my behalf Dianne - I disagree with what sj said but decided to let it wash over me. It was very sweet that you fought my battle for me :)

Lulu, nail, head - again. The underlying issue is that I'm peed off with my friend about a number of things, not just this. In a nutshell, she knows I'm doing it tough on a number of fronts at the moment. I haven't expected her to be a mindreader, I've been very explicit that I AM struggling. She lives up the road, there've been no phone calls to see how I'm doing, one line responses to group emails where I've expressed frustration with being housebound with a bright and breezy "take it easy" and to top it off calls me to ask for DSD's help. This is from someone who I'VE babysat for, not just DSD - she hasn't once reciprocated when now I really need it.

What s***s me is that I've had more moral support from people that I barely know in my MG AND have never met on here as well as offers of practical help, than I have had from my friends (this one inparticular) who keep telling me they are my best buddies when we go on Girls Weekends Away. They make me feel like I'm a whinger and/or high maintenance and honestly, I don't reckon I am. I HAVE banged on about the pelvic instability on here A LOT because I don't get IRL support from people who are supposedly my closest friends and you guys make me feel better. If I whinge about being housebound and my partner working stupid shifts, I get an instant "that sounds tricky". If I do that to my friends, I get the third degree and am almost expected to recite his roster for the entire year to see whether I'm making it up. Geez, I'm allowed to whinge now and again aren't I? Anyhow, just blurted what I was going to start another thread about.

Dianne: I just think it is silly that she gave the decision to her friend and than took it back.. She is harbouring resentment and I do not think that is healthy. Yes, DSD did make a mistake, it was 3 months ago. I find it hard to believe that it would be without warning that she would drop them off to a 96yo? Why did she do it in the first place? Of course this is grounds to be angry but to be honest the father should be the one to take discplinary action.

I am also a firm believer that kids are kids and need to act accordingly.. I do not think it is fair for them to drop their plans, sports etc to help out i mean every now and then it is okay but not all the time. I believe that looking after a toddler or baby is not a chore like doing the dishes...

I am speaking from experience as my childhood and teenage years was spent looking after my half baby sister and brother. All that was pointed out was the negatives.. etc.. When i read this post it reminded me of my step mother..

It is not fair to say "in 15 years" you can comment.. I have a baby now and i know that he is mine and hubby responsibilty so we would work it out between us. As we have no family around and even if we did it would be when they are free i would never expect them to drop there plans to come look after my son I just don't think that is fair. I have been sick on a number of occasions had to organise DH to come home from work and occasional care.

sj - please read my last post. I've pointed out that, on reflection, what I originally posted is not the main issue. If you want to start a thread about what can reasonably be expected of teenage siblings, then go right ahead.

Yes, she did make a mistake and why, to go out with her friends, how is that responsible? She is 16 and should know better. I honestly don't think Fiona has her babysitting all the time. When you have no one around and need help there is nothing wrong with having your teenager babysit their siblings, it is a learning experience for them and teaches them responsibility if they can show it. All I meant by the 15rys time comment was that it is very hard raising a teenager, nothing like raising babies and younger children, it really is hard work.

Regards,
Dianne

sj, you are making some pretty big assumptions here. It's not like Fi loads her sdd with all the responsibility of caring for her child. To get some background you can always search the posts to do with this subject...

Experiences from BEING a teenager are FAR differnet from parenting a teenager. I still remember swearing I'd never make my kids do homework :rofl:

No i do not think her actions were responsible at all, were they out of character? I dont know. It is fine for teenages to 'help out' that is what it is-helping. Therefore when they do a good job gratitude should be shown. Of course teenagers are heard to raise they are very emotional and fast actioning people thus when punishments occur they should stick. It is not fair saying okay you can babysit for her but not for me and then change your mind. This just adds fuel to a fire and i dont think thats fair.

I wasn't going to waste energy trying to set the record straight but now I can't bloody help it. We certainly do not ask DSD to babysit all the time. Very rarely infact. She did do it in school holidays more regularly than normal because it meant that we didn't have to pay for an in-home carer. We made sure it was only for a couple of hours a couple of times a week AND she was told at the start of the week what days it was AND got paid for it. That was in school holidays where it seemed stupid to pay for an in-home carer when there was a 4-hour minimum booking and we only sometimes needed a couple of hours and DSD was at home anyway.

Ordinarily, outside school holidays, she is NEVER asked to babysit during the day or on weekends. We occasionally put DD to bed on a school night and leave the two of them home and go to the end of the street for a couple of drinks. We are literally a two minute walk away. DSD is not expected to do anything because we've already put DD to bed, except stay home which she would be doing anyway on a school night. We HAVE done this since the last incident and we phone every 15 minutes to make sure she's still here.

Fiona, I know exactly what you are going through!!! Pregnant (although I didn't have the pelvic thing) with a "not so nice" 16 year old. All I can say is hang in there babe and offer you a :hug: and a shoulder. I think it is very, very hard for people who have not had to raise a teenager to understand your situation and how fragile the relationship with a teen can be. If you ever want to chat please feel free to PM me.

ETA: I also want to add that I didn't trust my teen DD to babysit, so I know where you're coming from. Oh, and now she's UTD, so she could have used the practice, lol :shakehead:

Thanks Marlene - very funny about needing the practice :)

But my angst about this really is more frustration with my friend over other issues than with DSD or this issue inparticular. I should have thought it through a bit more before posting and rephrased it along the lines of "how d'you deal with a friend(s) who you think are unsupportive." I just got sidetracked with the babysitting thing when there's been bigger issues brewing with this friend for some time. But not to worry, I think I've figured out what to do about that one.

Good luck with your DD, I hope everything is reasonably well. I'm not on BB as much as I used to be so haven't read the latest for a while but hope everything's OK.

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I don't really think that you need to justify asking your SD to babysit Fiona - it's what families do. They help each other out and contibute to the household in whatever way is most appropriate.
I think that it sucks that your friend asked your SD to babysit even after hearing that she let you down. I expect my friends to back up my parenting choices - if they disagree they can talk about it with me while the children are out of earshot but in the meantime they can just refrain from undermining me.

Thanks for the hugs Onyx but I've explained about four times now that this wasn't really about the babysitting issue.

Yeah, I get that Fiona. I was more concerned about her undermining your parenting and TBH about 6 replies arrived between me writing my post and hitting submit.
Anyways....good luck with it all.

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The thing is, I haven't told DSD that she's banned from looking after other people's kids so there's no real lesson learnt there. I should but there's just been too much going on and there didn't seem any point adding fuel to the fire when it hadn't cropped up before now IYKWIM. Things are quite topsy turvy, DSD is talking about moving out as she doesn't think I want her around and I wanted to discuss all this in family counselling but our appointments have been interrupted by DSD's Easter trip home to the US.

I guess I'm more peed off with my friend for even asking when she knows about how we don't trust DSD AND she knows that this makes life difficult for us.

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At sixteen, I don't think I'd be banning her from babysitting other people's kids (for a start, it's good experience in being responsible and keeps her in pocket money that you don't have to give her!) but I'd certainly tell people who asked you that you have found her unreliable and untrustworthy. I suspect her offers would dry up pretty quickly! She needs to learn that reputation is important to protect.

I think too that you need to make sure she bears some consequences for not being more supportive at home. Make sure you aren't doing her any favours that you absolutely don't have to: "I'd love to help you out but I am so tired from not getting any assistance from you that I just can't."

From experience, she's at a difficult age to be welcoming a new sibling. At that age they can often regress and start acting up more. There's something very confronting about your mother having another baby when you're just about grown up. I saw a lot of that in my two eldest when they were that age and expecting younger sibs.

Sixteen is such a hard age. They want to be all grown up and independent, but at their very core they know they still need their parents, and they resent that like hell, whilst still expecting you to take care of them like you did when they were little! No real advice on that score except to say, keeping the lines of communication open, being consistent with your boundaries and consequences, and always being prepared to have a laugh will make sure that this will pass as quickly as possible. I was ready to heave my sixteen year old out in the street... nearly three years later and the thought of her moving out makes me weep!