violence and cheating is a part of every marriage

Spent the arvo with my very close friend and her DS today. The boys had an awesome time playing as usual, but we had an interesting, disturbing, chat.

My marriage has recently ended so I am on a very girl-power journey, all about being strong and not settling and making myself as happy as possible.

My friend is living seperately from her partner, the father of her DS. They have had a very on-off relationship over the years. They have both cheated on each other at different times, they have been violent toward each other, he should be in jail (a whole nother thread:rolleyes:) Their relationship has been terrific for the past week or so. She has been staying at his house for over a week now and they have been in a honeymoon period again. I told her I am happy that she is feeling happy right now and I hope it lasts and they build on it and save their relationship, but I also reminded her of the past honeymoon periods she has had with him and I had with XH.

Well she went on to talk about how its ridiculous of her to think about leaving her partner because he understands her and puts up with her crap and they laugh together and care about each other. She will probably never finda nother man who will be better than her current partner who will also put up with her crap.

I explained that my XH and I still very much love and care for each other but we dont make each other truly happy anymore, I dont want to settle for him just in case I dont end up finding any one else who I love just as much as him.

She went on to say that she would love to have another bub with her partner but she never wants to live with him again.

I explained that I thought it would be selfish to bring another child into an already broken home.

She thinks her son is ok so another baby would cope too.

I dont think bringing children into an uncertain family life is a good thing to do and children whouldnt be brought into the world to just cope, yanno?

She goes on to tell me that there has been quite a bit of violence from him. She had an infected, fractured elbow last year, she told me she stumbled (not uncommon she has mild cerebal palsy, so is unsteady on her feet). Well today she confesses that her partner actually shoved her really hard to the ground:o and similar other things regularly happen and she thinks its ok. SHe actually said to me "show me any couple who have been married for 55 years and I bet there will be a history of violence/cheating and they have just pushed through it and eventually gotten over it"

I cant believe people can just settle like that, be treated like that, just in case they cant find some one else down the track. She actually thinks I should have stayed with XH cause he never cheated on me or hit me!!!!!

Do people really think that all relationships end up having violence/betrayal/adultery in them??

God, please someone come in here and let me know that my morals and values are not out of the ordinary and too strict or too black and white?!!

Wow, she must have extremely low self confidence to have fooled herself into believing that. I'm not sure what else to say, I feel very sorry for her

yeah i feel very sorry for her too, especially cause she sees herself as very educated, she is a trained youth worker and wants be a social worker, you would think she'd know better.

Thank goodness Im not the only one who can see this, PHEW

Violence and Cheating should not be a part of every marriage, whether it's the norm (and goodness I hope not!) or not.

No cheating or violence here, and neither of us would accept that in our relationship. I think your friend sounds very defensive and embarrassed. I would say she really needs some support, but at the same time she needs to want it too. I'm sorry you are going through this, it must be so confusing and you must feel so helpless.

Well all I can say is I feel sorry for her, sorry for the model she is showing her son and sorry for any youth she works with that she tells is ok to be in a violent relationship.

it's certainly not a part of my marriage. Admittedly its only been just under 16 years, but I think my DH would have to develop a brain tumour before he changed from the wonderful man he is into a violent cheater...

Agree with all above.

You can't protect some people from themselves. Some behave in a way that fosters such horrible values, and many thrive on the drama and therefore don't seek to improve. Sad but true.

Those 2 things are definite deal breakers for me - not defending her but it can be hard to break out of that cycle once you are there, especially if you have models of similiar things. Maybe she was talking to you bc she was not so sure???? That is really tricky - Good on you for taking such a brave and strong step forward too Widdly! I look forward to hearing of your adventures! xxx

Absolutely not! While DP and I have only been together for 10 years there has never been and daresay will never be any violence or cheating going on. We yell at each other and crack it but would never raise anything other than our voices. And he is definitely faithful - he has very strong morals about this.

With my XDH there was cheating but it was at the end of the marriage and the marriage was already dead (for many other reasons). There was never any violence and we are still good friends so it doesn't have to be like that even if the marriage isn't good it can still be loving and amicable if that makes sense. I think violence and cheating indicates much bigger issues.

no way, definately not acceptable here.

Your poor friend is sadly very entrenched in the domestic violence cycle.

agree with all of your posts. Had a big chat with my Mum about it today over lunch, I thanked her so much for giving me such a wonderfully strong female role model and for instilling such wonderful morals and values in me and filling me with strength and independence.

My friend comes from not a great back ground. She only met her father a couple of years ago, he is a thug, his answer to problems is to use his fists. Her mother was in and out of a mental hospital during high school. She was abused by her brohter as a child. Her own mother yelled at her for leaving her cheating and violent partner cause she would never find any better to have her and the violence and cheating is all her fauly any way cause she doesnt make sure the house is clean and the tea is on the table when he finishes work every day. No wonder she has the views she does.

I am feeling really bad now. I feel that I dont really want my DS to grow up friends with her DS cause imagine what valuea dn beliefs they are instilling in theis child. What is this little boy gonna be like when he is 9....or 15? Plus, knowing what I now know about them I will never allow DS to play at their house without me there. Also I find it extremely stressful to know this crap is going on with her and in front of her DS, I dont know that I want her in my life any more......

Ever since high school I have tried to help her see that the world isnt all like what she has grown up with, but to be honest I think she actually enjoys the drama of her life.

Maybe I will just start seeing less and less of her, there is only so long i can try and help her and be there for her.

Nai, it is great to hear that you and your XH have a good relationship still :)

Mak, thankyou so much hun! x

Slyder, awesome post :)

lime, yes it is VERY scarey that she would give such damaging advice to very vulnerable youth

...she sounds like she needs some strong women as a role model too hun ;).
Even if she doesn't change straight away or completely, it only take one drop of water to start a waterfall.
:hug: I know how distressing that can be to witness

yeah you're right Kim. But I will be taking a small step back, and I wont be holding back my opinions about her opinions. I cant just stand by and do or say nothing, and I wont be taking her criticism of my strength as a woman.

Yep, usually the people who think that have grown up in very dysfunctional settings themselves so to them it IS normal. Just like to me, it's normal for people to have one argument in 40 years of marriage (my parents) and to DP it's normal for people to blue on a daily basis and get over it five minutes later (his parents).

I don't know what I'd do in your situation widdly - I think I'd just say that I understood why she might think that but REALLY violence is definitely NOT OK and cheating is kind of only OK if both partners have agreed on an open relationship.

It is very scary that she is going to become a social worker BUT her studies might make her rethink some of her views and hopefully teach her that she can break her own cycle and deserves something better.

And that's a fair call babe....you know i'd be the same :hug:

Widdly FWIW I wouldn't worry about your son seeing her son at this early stage - its not a given that just because the mums are friends that the kids will be too. But it sounds like you need to look after your own self before any friendship with her is considered :hug:

rory, thanks, you're right they wont be going to the same primary school so chances are they wont be close friends any way.

kim x

fiona, that is really good advice and I am gonna take it :)

widdly, when i read this thread i got goosebumps! u have described ALL of my DH's friends relationships!! Cheating and violence is often taboo talk so its a great step that you are aware of it and can make informed decisions regarding your DS's interaction with her DS. Remember that people from all walks and ways of life come into our life for a reason. Perhaps the reason she came into yours was to show you how resilient and strong you are, and this is only just early days. You never know, the friendship the two DS's develop could be a lifelong and fulfilling.
And DITTO to Slyder! Some people just love drama in their life!

Its a nice way to look at it Sunny, thanks for the positive spin :)

the only violence in my marriage would come about if one of us cheated then god help the plates :lol:

How truely sad and unsettling that she thinks it completely normal to settle for second best :( what kind of role model is she to her child and any future children.

Good god, my parents have been married for 51 years and dad has NEVER beat or cheated on my mother...he worships the ground she walks on and vice versa.

:shakehead: truely sad

Aaah Widdly this is a sad story & one I've heard before many times sadly. :cry:

I find it not so shocking as I've heard it so much - do you know that 1 in 5 Women have been subjected to DV? And that is only those women that admit to it - as many don't due to embarassment.

So, one positive is that your friend is speaking about it. Another is she has you to model a different value system. :hug:

I believe you have a choice to continue your friendship & speak openly about your values or you can withdraw as it's too hard. Both are very valid and understandable darling.

Sometimes ones pain is too great for them to understand the awful life they are in. Sometimes it's all they know so it's "normal".

On another note I was warmed to read you had lunch with your Mama & thanked her for her wonderful role model to you - that in a nutshell is the greatest gift any Mother can give a Daughter... :hug:

Maz, wonderful to hear of your parents long happy marriage :)

Ianna, thanks hun. I agree that my Mum gave me the greatest gift in teaching me that women are strong and worthy creatures.

I have taken a step back from the friendship as it angers me so much that after all these years of me offering her support and love and trying to open her eyes to her life, nothing has changed. I am also good friends with her sister. Her sister has been through a lot, has been in a DV relationship, has been raped, has been in a controlling pressuring relationship, has been sexually harassed, you name it she has been through it. But, you know what, that girl has guts. She know right from wrong and she is an incredible mum to her kids. She has stood up to the men in her life who has treated her badly and rid her life of them. She is setting such a wondeful example for her daughter and son. I am there for her to support her and help her with the kids through all of this. THrough hard work she has made such huge positive changes in her life. I wish her sister would take a leaf from her book.

I was telling my friend this arvo that once her DS turns 6 she needs to find work/study toward work, PPS doesnt last for ever. It was a rude awakening for her and instead of working toward employment, she said, she will just have another baby so she can stay at home on PPS for another 6 years.....GEEZ

I feel sorry for your friend. It's hard to try to help people who just don't want to be helped.

She is teaching her son that it is okay to treat women this way. :(

Wow, sounds like she's just making excuses. My IL's have been married 34 years and never laid a hand on each other or cheated on each other. Same with my parents married 24 years. I agree with Rouge, she does sound embarras and almost like she's trying to justify the behaviour. I hope she is able to open her eyes and see the realtionship for how it really is and get out.

thanks for your take on the situation guys :)

83, you are right, it is impossible to help those who dont want to be helped.

She made a comment about her son yesterday that he will be a cop, and I remarked "or the one the cops are after". Oh dear, very mean of me, this is why i am stepping back cause I dont have any thing nice to say anymore so i need to say nothing at all. I hope her son does turn into a great citizen but I just cant see how with his father beating up on his mum, having fist fights at his work and growing, supplying and constantly smoking pot. And his mum acting like its all a 'normal' okay part of life :(.

Anyway, over and out, this thread is just depressing, goodluck to them, time for her to start using someone else.

People who are subjected to chronic mistreatment over a period of time become accustomed to it as a coping mechanism. It's not a character flaw, it's the minds way of coping with stress. In the wonderful book "The Gift of Fear", the author describes a case involved in where a woman left her abusive husband and went to a refuge for a few days, then returned home. But when she returned home she felt unsafe again so called the refuge asking to come back. The staff asked her, "are you in danger?" and she said no. Her husband was in the next room with a shotgun. She later explained that she did not feel she was in any serious danger because he wasn't in the same room as her.
It sounds like your friend is suffering the effects of chronic abuse and mistreatment, and needs help. And having another child is a TERRIBLE idea, it will only increase the likelihood of violence.

edit: just read the whole thread thoroughly.
Inanna, I heard from someone who works for a family violence service that the actual statistic is more like 30% of women. It's just one of those things no one talks about and quite often, one can be a victim of violence without even knowing it (which I know you already know but i'm saying it for the benefit of those who don't).

From what I've read, I don't blame your friend at all for thinking the way she does or having the beliefs and values that she does. When has she seen anything different? One can't expect a person to create a life for themselves that they've never even experienced second-hand. That's not to say you're not doing the right thing by stepping back, I'd be doing the exact same thing.

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Violence and Cheating should not be a part of every marriage, whether it's the norm (and goodness I hope not!) or not.

No cheating or violence here, and neither of us would accept that in our relationship. I think your friend sounds very defensive and embarrassed. I would say she really needs some support, but at the same time she needs to want it too. I'm sorry you are going through this, it must be so confusing and you must feel so helpless.

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:yeahthat:

Neither of us would accept that in our marriage or within our extended family!!! We both come from loving, supportive families, me especially. I feel awfully sorry for your friend that she believes that is the norm. It's not.

Neenee I totally agree with all you say. A great post. :hug:

I actually believe that many forms of abuse are "normal" in many relationships. I see in friends relationships behaviors that I would term abusive/manipulative/unhealthy - yet to them "it's just the way they are"... Think about how that is modelled to children and they absorb that & so on and so forth...

The incidences of infidelity are about 60% of marriages - that is massive. There is always the party that does not know... I remember working with a man that was having an affair with a co worker for years his wife was very happily married and unaware...

I think infidelity and abusive behaviors are very very common - more so than we give credit for. An infidel will not openly say oh yeah I get that. They will argue very passionately that it's not okay behavior etc etc etc. Of course there are those that are completely faithful. Those that work on their behavior and aim to not use abuse. However we ALL have the tools to be abusers and infidels! We see it in every day life. It's using the tools to not be abusers that's the trick I think...

Wow, I think it would highly selfish of her to bring another bubb into that type of situation