How to respond.........

Quick bit of background. DP and I have a couple of mutual friends, a married couple. We'll call them A (husband) and B (wife). DP and I both worked with A for several years, until B reached out to befriend me for whatever reason. (yay!)

So the four of us have been fairly close over the last 12 months, especially during my pregnancy. Once DS was born, things got a bit more difficult, and we haven't been able to be as social as we once were. We used to either have dinner, lunch, or some form of gathering with our friends weekly. They're DINKs (double income, no kids) and of course we're... um the other one. With kids, and no money lol.

Our friends have always been very generous, buying us gifts, having us over for dinner constantly, knowing I couldn't return the favour with a baby underfoot. I've explained to them multiple times that I feel awful accepting such generosity, and not being able to reciprocate, but they've always said it's totally fine.

And now the current issue:
A and B invited us to spend a night at the casino (they had a spare booking for whatever reason) for free. I was reluctant, as I knew it'd be expensive for them, and kind of wasted on us since DS would have to come with us.... and would've most likely made it difficult to do anything except sit in our room. Still, they insisted it'd be fine, so we agreed. We heard nothing more about it leading up to the night, so thought they'd changed their minds, or found someone who would be able to enjoy it fully to go instead. That was a-ok with me! We didn't want to be rude, and call them asking about our free night at the casino. I mean.... rude, much? So we let it slide.

Fast forward to the day of the 'outing'. At about 5pm, the phone starts to ring. And ring, and ring. We were in the middle of a massive baby scream-fest, and were both tired and completely over it. We often dont' answer our mobiles when DS is unsettled.... for obvious reasons. Our friends know this, and that we'll call them back when we can. This time though, they kept calling, and calling........ and we remembered it was 'casino night'. Since it was so late, we knew we weren't going to be able to get ready in time and go. And even if we had time, DS was in demon child mode, and would've spoiled the night for everyone. I didn't want to be THAT woman. Dragging her baby from pillar to post just so that I could have a good time. (ha! good time with a screaming baby? unlikely.)

So, DP spoke to A at work the next day. Apparently, it was rude of us not to bend over backwards to accept their invite for free accomodation. I was blown away! A was carrying on, saying B was really upset with us, and that it 'could have' cost them $150 for a wasted room. It didn't. There were plenty of other people willing to take them up on the offer, who didn't have crying babies to contend with. They took another couple of friends instead.

So these are my issues.
1. since they found someone else to take the room, what's the big deal?
2. I find it really frustrating when people who DON'T have kids apply pressure for us to do the things we used to do before DS came along.
3. They expected us to pack up DS and ourselves and be there within the hour. Not possible without knowing earlier in the day that they still wanted us to go.
4. B is always saying narky things to A, expecting him to pass on the message via DP to me. She complains that I'm flaky, and never answer my phone.
5. They don't understand how high maintenance DS is, and are always giving us lame advice on how to 'fix' the problem. I've always smiled and nodded up until now, because I love them and know they're only trying to help.

Am I wrong to be annoyed that they're annoyed? :rofl: I mean, nobody lost any money....... they had a great time.. what's the problem? I'm p***** that people who are meant to be our friends just don't get that we're a FAMILY now, and DS has to come first. I think they feel like we've distanced ourselves, when really..... we just don't have the time we used to have. It seems like they expect everything to be the same, and that we'll just take DS along. But it just isn't that simple! Anyway, I'm getting tired of B making comments behind my back (but knowing I'll get the message) and making me feel like a bad friend just because I have other responsibilities. I'm tired of feeling guilty because they give so much when I have nothing to give.

So, to summarize...... I'm annoyed because our 'friends' don't understand that applying pressure for us to socialize doesn't help! I'm annoyed because B didn't speak to me directly about this, and instead got her husband to tell DP she's upset with me. She knows she can talk to me honestly about anything. I'm annoyed because they didn't give us adequate notice to be able to even get there, if we wanted to! How is it ok to expect someone to accomplish the impossible, and then get mad when they can't do it? I feel like A and B are almost jealous of DS, because he gets all of our attention and we rarely see them anymore. Ridiculous!

My question is this. Am I overreacting? I haven't bothered to contact B since all this happened.... I'm just too annoyed. I don't know what to say. And I don't think I should have to apologise for NOT accepting a freebie. I know they would expect an apology. So, I'm thinking I don't need friends like this. It makes me so sad, because we were so close..... and they were so good to us in the past. But, as I suspected it's come back to bite me in the a**. As always, nothing is ever given out of the goodness of ones heart............ there's always expectations attached. I feel like the selfish, greedy friend who takes and never gives, and I don't want to feel like that. I've always been clear that I don't have as much as they do (financially) and just can't match their level of generosity. The answer was always a cool 'Don't worry about it, we love having you guys over.. etc etc'.

I think I've rambled on enough. In short- I'm sad that one of my ONLY friends is acting this way. Are they justified? Am I an ungrateful, and selfish friend?

OK, being honest here, I do think you’re in the wrong with this one. If I’m correct in reading your account, you accepted their offer but then didn’t turn up? That is really annoying, I know I’d be annoyed. It shouldn’t be up to your friends to contact you and confirm. If you said yes, you said yes. :dunno:

I don’t know why you think they would have found someone else, if you had accepted they wouldn’t have been looking for someone else. And surely if they had, they would have contacted you to tell you and cancel (with you).

I would call her and apologise. Explain that your life has changed, that you felt pressured to accept when you didn’t really want to, that because they didn’t confirm with you you thought they’d found someone else (although I personally can’t understand why you would think that) and that you’re just not in a position to do these type of social things at the moment.

I think it's a little rude of you guys actually. Fair enough if you couldn't go, but I don't understand your reasoning much. If I invited somebody somewhere and they accepted, and didn't hear anything from them until the night, I could only assume that their answer had not changed and they were still coming. I would probably have sent a text along the lines of 'hey, still coming next week?', but even though they didn't I think it was a fair assumption that you were coming on their part. And again, totally fair enough!! But if I were calling, yeah I would expect a quick text a bit later saying hey, not coming. But really, I think you could have let them know you weren't coming. It sounds like in this post that you had made your mind up about not going well before the night, then forgotten about it, and when you remembered you didn't even contact them. I'd be mad too.

Without getting into the judging of whether anyone is selfish, unreasonable etc, I'll just deal with the etiquette side of things.

They offered a night in a casino, let's call it X. You knew it wasn't worth it but to be polite, you accepted. Firstly, no matter how much pressure they were putting, it would have been better to politely decline so they could find someone else with more notice. As you accepted X, it would be expected that you turn up. If you couldnt, then call to cancel, however late notice. If you couldnt call in time, call the next day or as soon as you could, to apologise. Perhaps send a card saying thank you, sorry we couldnt make it.

Things happen in life to interrupt plans, whether it's accidents, illness or whatever. From an etiquette POV, if you make a plan that impacts on other people, irrespective of whether you want to do it or not, you either keep to the plan or give notice you have to change plans.

As for the hurt feeling either side, that's based on miscommunication and misunderstanding that may or may not be resolved through a phone call or face to face meeting. There are 2 couples in this situation, therefore 2 parties to make or resolve a problem. A member of either party can make that call. In this case, the onus is on either you or your DP.

If you accepted their offer you should have either gone or given them adequate notice that you were going to cancel.

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But if I were calling, yeah I would expect a quick text a bit later saying hey, not coming. But really, I think you could have let them know you weren't coming.

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Not singling you out PZ but if you're cancelling I think that it's better to call than text. I know it's more awkward but I think that it's more polite especially if people have gone to a bit of trouble or expense.

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OK, being honest here, I do think you’re in the wrong with this one. If I’m correct in reading your account, you accepted their offer but then didn’t turn up? That is really annoying, I know I’d be annoyed. It shouldn’t be up to your friends to contact you and confirm. If you said yes, you said yes. :dunno:

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Completely agree with Epacris on this one.

I guess that's the problem. Lack of communication. DP actually accepted before asking me first, then was angry when I said it'd be wasted on us. As for not turning up, they were supposed to let us know before the day about times etc. When we heard nothing, we thought they found someone else. Which they had. (they had a few others interested before they asked us).
How could I cancel when I didn't hear back that they'd booked it at all? I didn't know until the phonecalls started, and figured this was their confirmation. A bit late. How do you have that conversation anyway? "Hey, have you booked our expensive hotel room yet?" hmmm. Awkward.

Oh and tgey did take other friends, A told DP about it at work. So, my point was that nobody was out of pocket, and plenty of others were available.

Based on all that, we figured it was a no go, until it was too late. I really was not comfy with asking about it later, I feel like that would have been rude,and they know us very well - and that I feel awkward accepting freebies. Anyhoo, they were meant to confirm with us, and when that didn't happen, you know the rest.

Lately, if we can't get to our phones, they just call non stop, which drives me crazy. And at inappropriate times. Early morning, DS's bedtime. So yeah, in general I feel pressured and like they expect too much of us.

I respect your opinions though. I really thought there might be someone out there who would see it my way. I guess I'm a bad friend afterall.

Oh yeah I agree Onyx! It's definitely better etiquette to call, always. I meant more for Forshelby's situation - screaming baby etc - a text is better than nothing (and easier than a phonecall). I admit though I text more than call :p

I personally would have called a week before and asked if the casino night was still on.. and then on the day politely explained that Ds was having a majorly bad day and would it be to much trouble for them to find someone else to go..

I think you both have the right to be annoyed though :/ It is hard to have friends who don't have kids or who have much older children. Friends of ours don't have children and think its easy to go places or catch up at night ect.. They recently applied to be foster parents and had some children recently for afew days.. Their FB status said it all.. We now have a renewed respect for parents with more then 1 child :lol:

I don't think they will be rushing to offer too much advice now as I think they have realised it is not as easy as it looks sometimes.. but back to you.. If you don't want to call maybe an email with an apology and say you were really distracted that day with your DS and invite them over for a meal and a movie??

Before i had children, i had NO concept of how much they can sometimes disrupt 'plans'. When friends cancelled on me due to sick kids, or bad sleeping or general kid type things, i was always a bit disappointed. I vowed when i had kids, I would NOT be cancelling prearranged dates.

Well, didn't i have a lot to learn! In the last 3.5 years i have had to cancel lots of things due to family, some things at the very last minute too. I just hope now that my friends understand and have been in the same situation too - I now sympathise with friends who have to cancel, because i know it's not fun to do, but sometimes it needs to be done.

Sounds to me like communication breakdown. You probably should have double checked. It could have been done in a way that didn't sound greedy - something like "hey, are you guys still going to the casino for the night? Still want us to join you, or it's fine if you've found someone else. Just let us know either way".

It's tough when you feel pressured by a friend, but it sounds like their generosity is purely selfless. They just like you guys and want to share some fun with you. Do you want to fall out over this? Otherwise it might pay to call and have a proper chat about it with 'B'. Get it out in the air. You might move on better afterwards. They might appreciate your situation better, and be more willing to be friends on equal terms.

Definately sounds like a communication breakdown.

Your DP should have consulted you before giving the ok. He should of then officially told them that you wouldnt be able to go. Then imo it would be up to those organising the night away to keep everyone up to date about the plans and what not.
I understand that you and your DP were under the impression that they werent expecting you to go, especially if no further plans had been made with you both.

Sounds like you and your dp are in need of a break from them. IMO I think both sides are in the wrong. I mean they were planning an occasion and should have kept you up to date and just not assumed that you knew what was going on. But also you or DP should have asked them. (Although I know myself, that regardless of how good a friends we are with a couple, if they ask DH something I will not ask them something about it, unless they bring the topic up)

As for not answering your phone, well I understand that. I refuse to answer my phone if something else is going on. I wont answer it during meal times, bath times, or if the girls are having tantrums. I've told everyone that if I dont answer and its an emergency than leave a message to call them back asap.

****JUST MY OPINION****

if they were organising the night i think it should be up to them to contact you beforehand like they said they would.

i know when im offered something for nothing i feel terrible and honestly, i couldnt bring myself to contact them about it, in fear of them thinking im a leech!

i wouldnt have answered my phone either.

maybe when they have kids they might realise how hard it can be

:hug: maybe you should just ring her and try to sort it out - if you still wanna be friends

xx

I get where you're coming from Forshelby. I see how it would have been awkward to broach the subject of your freebie. And I also think that it is rude of your friends not confirm with you and then expect you to show up. Then again, from the sounds of things maybe B told A to tell your DP to tell you the details, and somewhere along the line the message got lost...

Having said that, I think it would have been polite to either call or text and say that you're not coming on the night. Personally, I would have done the "OMG, baby brain, completely forgot was it tonight? I'm so sorry..." line, but that's just me. If B already thinks you're flaky, she would probably believe it too, and next time double check with you about things....

My advice - don't fall out over what was essentially a misunderstanding. Call B or email and apologise for not being able to come, but also mention that as no one confirmed any details, you were not sure what was going on, etc... :hug:

I'm with Epacris on this one.

I think if your friendship is a solid one that it will all just be seen in the end as a huge mis-communication. I can see how you both would be feeling annoyed because it sounds like every-one 'assumed'. So if you love your friend just pick up the phone and call. Get it all sorted out before it really does get out of hand.

As DH always says, (like, ALWAYS :rolleyes: lol) "Never assume, you'll always make an ASS out of U and ME."

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****JUST MY OPINION****

if they were organising the night i think it should be up to them to contact you beforehand like they said they would.

i know when im offered something for nothing i feel terrible and honestly, i couldnt bring myself to contact them about it, in fear of them thinking im a leech!

i wouldnt have answered my phone either.

maybe when they have kids they might realise how hard it can be

:hug: maybe you should just ring her and try to sort it out - if you still wanna be friends

xx

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I agree. I hate contacting people when they offer things so i generally let them slide too.
Like PP have said if you still wish to be friends call and apologies if you feel you should if not let it go and let them find out how hard it is when they have kids.

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As DH always says, (like, ALWAYS :rolleyes: lol) "Never assume, you'll always make an ASS out of U and ME."

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I was going to say that too.

I was also going to add - I am sometimes the type of person who organises things then doesn't follow up and get annoyed when people don't show. But I get over it really quickly. :) I think both you and your friends will get over this too. Hope you're feeling better.

Its simple....people that dont have kids just DONT GET IT...they never can and never will! Some people think that they do but they dont!!


So you also asked 'how to respond'.... Say simple that "you offered but we never heard and i felt like a dead **** asking about it, when you rang it was far too late to have gotten there and A was a right ferral that night anyway. Sorry i didnt get to my phone that night!"

I don’t doubt that all of the surrounding circumstances make the whole situation really difficult and awkward, but if you (I mean you and your DP as a couple) accept an invitation and you (as a couple) don’t intend to show or don’t actually show, it is up to you (as a couple) to make contact about it.

Ignoring it (the invitation) and them is not the polite thing to do.

Although I can see both sides, I personally would feel alittle cross at being 'stood up' like that.

Whilst I completely and absolutely understand how tough it can be to organise a baby, and can sympathise with the frustration at people with no kids- People without kids don't and can't understand what its like and one can't really rely on them to understand why baby crying fits take precedence over a phone call etc. And well- they don't know your routine so they arnt calling intentionally to annoy you.

If I were you I would definatly call her and let her know the situation. Its a communication breakdown and not worth losing a friendship over :)

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Although I can see both sides, I personally would feel alittle cross at being 'stood up' like that.

Whilst I completely and absolutely understand how tough it can be to organise a baby, and can sympathise with the frustration at people with no kids- People without kids don't and can't understand what its like and one can't really rely on them to understand why baby crying fits take precedence over a phone call etc. And well- they don't know your routine so they arnt calling intentionally to annoy you.

If I were you I would definatly call her and let her know the situation. Its a communication breakdown and not worth losing a friendship over :)

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Agree with Delphmoon here and the fact that they had a couple of interest beforehand and still choosing you guys means they must love hanging out with you and I think if they didn't care they would not have kept ringing and ringing to ask where you were.

Hope you sort things out xoox

Kids or no kids, a response is always important. And you would have realised at least an hour before you were supposed to leave that you weren't going to be able to go. At which point you contact them. You have to make time when you have kids to urinate, eat and so forth. Kids isn't an excuse. It just makes things difficult but not completely out of the question. Or we'd have a lot of mum's who starved to death. And better yet parents with multiple children would also starve etc.

BUT your partner should have contacted you first. And the night before it would have been courteous for him to contact them and confirm it was still going ahead. I hate it when people say "Well you didn't call me." Erm that doesn't make it right. Communication stand off's never work for anyone.

Having said that, her reaction was a little unnecessary given she wasn't left with the room untaken. I don't think there is any "blame" persay. I think everyone could have communicated a lot better and it would have been avoided.

I can see fault on all sides. However, I will say that your DP needs to apologise. He accepted the invitation and when you had doubts, didn't convey them. For all you know his chum may have told him more at work and he didn't pass it on.

So have your DP apologise to the couple, explaining he should never have taken their generous offer up. It may help with the friendship if you also apologise for not answering your telephone, explaining that you often cannot (not will not) answer when your DS is being "troublesome" (although you don't have to). Tell them that you love hanging out with them - maybe they can come over to yours for pizza one night? I hope they will then apologise for the overreaction, but better not to expect it.

I would have assumed (yes, I said the word ASSUME!! LOL) that if they didn't contact me that they'd found someone else, I'd feel really awkward about calling about a freebie. I also have a particular friend who makes plans, then neither of us call and we never mention the ''plan'' again (on some occasions I call them, and they seem quite surprised that I took it seriously, lol), so I'm totally fine with non-communication regarding plans with certain people. It depends on your friendship with them, you know your history.

I think one of the points of your original post was about how people without kids can have unrealistic expectations about people with kids, and I am 100% with you on that baby! SOOO many times I've had to patiently explain that we can't really give a specific time of arrival, it depends on what time the boy wakes up (there is NO WAY I'm waking a sleeping baby, I'm not crazy) and when he's sleepy (all our friends live about an hour away, and the boy cries when he's in the car for more than 15 minutes, so we time car trips according to when he's due to nap cos he'll sleep in the car). We text when we're leaving so they have an hour's notice.

Also, when I've had a week of 3hrs of broken sleep a night, operating a phone is completely beyond me. And if I had the choice of texting someone for 3 minutes, or staring blankly. I'd choose staring. And to be perfectly honest, I would expect my friends to understand that, and to be sympathetic and give me frozen food so I didn't have to worry about dinner. Because that's what I would do if a friend of mine bailed on a night in a hotel because they had a tough night, and what friends of mine have done when we've had tough nights/weeks.

- One more thing! In the early days (so up until about, oh, 4 weeks ago?) If it's not convenient I don't answer the phone. I just don't. Even if the boy's asleep sometimes I don't have the energy to talk to someone, they're cutting into my precious staring blankly time.

lol kit....i often have my home phone off the hook and mobile on silent....i figure if i want to talk to someone i'd be ringing them.... my friends know that im slack with the phone or they soon learn!!

in fact i hate the fact that having a mobile phone makes people believe that you should be contactable 100% of the time! its bad for ones health!

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Kids or no kids, a response is always important. And you would have realised at least an hour before you were supposed to leave that you weren't going to be able to go. At which point you contact them. You have to make time when you have kids to urinate, eat and so forth. Kids isn't an excuse. It just makes things difficult but not completely out of the question. Or we'd have a lot of mum's who starved to death. And better yet parents with multiple children would also starve etc.

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I agree. Can't use kids as an excuse.

I don't think its jealousy on your friends part necessarily, but maybe more dissapointment & perhaps feeling like you are a little unreliable as friends now with your DS?? I have a friend that used to tee up coffee or a visit then never turn up & when I called her she'd been caught up with something, but NEVER called or text to say so. I felt really angry & sad that I could no longer rely on her as a friend.

As for sorting this out I really think it could've been handled easily with a quick call to A or B along the lines of 'look so sorry we couldn't make it, but boy DS was cracking it big time. DH & I had such a terrible night of it, but I'm so glad you guys found someone else to take & had a great time.' I think in amongst everything that's going on, this has been blown out of proportion & shouldve been a simple, light hearted apology.

From an etiquette point of view i think it was a communication breakdown and BOTH sides probably could have done more to make it happen, form the sounds of it though you didn't want to go and i think if that was the case YOU (you or your DH) should have called and explained that while you appreciate the offer with your DS you just really can't do it at the moment.

Regarding not calling or letting them know you weren't going i personally consider that quite rude, no matter what you 'thought' they had done it was still your responsibility to let them know your actions.
A simple text or call with "are we still up for this w/end" would have been easily used to gauge if they still wanted/needed you there.

In regards to the ongoing friendship i think there obviously other issues there (not just THIS one) and you and your DH should discuss how you want this friendship to continue, if you value that friendship then i would call, apologise for the confusion and jokingly say next time we should keep in touch a little better.
Maybe also explain to them just how hard it is with a little one to be able to get to places on short notice and say anything you need to organise needs a little planning.

Quick update. DP apologised to them to keep the peace. He apologised for our part in the communication breakdown. Their response was to return everything we'd loaned them, and ask for their stuff back. We did the polite exchange. Now they have their stuff back, they're giving the cold shoulder. DP works with A and A just turns away when he sees him or finds an excuse to leave the immediate vicinity.

Pretty silly stuff. I guess we aren't the close friends I thought we were. I'm fine with dissolving the r'ship, but a little sad that it's all down to our change in priorities, bad communication on both sides, and their lack of understanding. If they're going to turn on us this fast, they aren't worth it. They'll understand one day why we no longer prioritize random partying, and why sometimes, you just drop the ball and stuff up.

The end!

Well, I'm glad it is the end - they didn't sound too healthy for you. One day they'll get your priorities (I hope - either that or never have children), til then you're right, not worth the energy.