Sometimes hard being 'that' friend.

I sometimes really struggle with being 'that' friend. The one who has all the info, has BTDT, who people may or may not listen to but will always ask. I have a lot of friends younger than me who are pregnant right now (18ish). I'm finding it especially hard to be diplomatic band respectful of their future choices, not in passing, non of my beeswax, but when I'm directly asked for advice.

There is one girl, who will not breastfeed. She has said its because she's not comfortable with her body, but she's said to me in private that the real reason is because she doesn't want a clingy baby, doesn't want to be housebound (she truly believes one week PP she'll be at the gym every night losing the baby weight) an because she wants the baby to bod with others. I have not once told her what I thought about that, because she's never asked, it's not my place (aside from saying that exercise that soon isn't recommended, that her body needs to recover). But her EDD is next month, and I've been getting a lot of questions from her, filled with really alarming thoughts from her. She's going to exclusively pump, so I've been helping her get ready for that; have linked her to the ABA, shared my pumping knowledge etc. But other things, like her not wanting her child to be a brat, smacking and CIO and sleeping in their own room from birth all make me very uncomfortable. I feel a tug, between not wanting to impose my own ideals onto her, and my desire to educate my generation and help them see a different way (as well as the fact that CIO with a newborn in another room is just dangerous). My passion is imparting young women with knowledge so they can make good and informed choices, but to them, I feel I'd be 'that' judgmental snobby *****. Seeing as this friend and many others clearly want my advice, do I give them my true advice, or generic, 'what they want to hear' type stuff? I've had mixed responses in the past (from losing friendships to having one friend credit me for BFing her son), so I just don't know. My main fear is not for how I'm seen, but how these girls that don't agree with me might feel, in their last weeks of pregnancy, hearing advice they may not agree with and how that might shake their confidence.

Hmm, that's a hard one. It actually sounds like she could benefit from a young mum's group. Is there one in her area?

with the CIO in a new born link her up with the studies that show its a risk to SIDS and the affects it can have on the brain. not judgement just all the facts.

I'm fairly forwards about my POV and if asked i give it. i dont pander (althought bull in a china shop = me) to most people they ask tell them. if they know you they'll know how you are raiseing Isla and gotta expect you to tell them what worked for you guys

If I were you, I'd give your true advice because your advice is good and your friend is clearly in need of a good reality check. If you are uncomfortable with her choices, I would think that it won't be a lasting friendship anyway ITMS, due to different values. So if she thinks you are being judgemental and dumps you for it, it would have been inevitable. She's asking advice, give it to her straight.

I'd give her the advice but in a non-threatening non-judgemental way. so, phrase it like 'this is what i did'. 'This is what some people do', 'you might find this will workk better' etc.

I think right now its all well and good for her to have these 'ideas' of how she will parent and everything but when faced with reality it is usually the wake up call they need.

When i was pregnant i swore i wouldnt co sleep, my baby would have her own bed her own room and that was that. Yep well it didnt turn out that way at all! 6 weeks of getting 2-3 hours sleep a night sure changed my mind and it worked out the best for all of us. Now my DD is yes in her own bed in her own room i had just witnessed my SIL have issues with both her girls getting them into beds and i didn't want that.

I think for now continue to listen to her, offer advice here and there try and bite your tongue and when her bub is here she may really need the support if it all doesn't pan out.

What about making a closed facebook group for your friends, where you can answer their questions? Then you can also post articles for them to read without directly telling them yourself.

Also, I think once bub arrives, she may find it difficult to separate herself; a friend of mine had a pretty similar plan, but when her baby arrived, she couldn't let her sleep in another room, couldn't let her out of her sight, she loved her too much! It sounds like your friend doesn't realise the emotional effect of having your own baby, and the only thing that can teach that will be experience.

I have to say I'm one of those friends who would be very blunt. There is no sugar coating what is best for the baby. She sounds like all her wants are quite selfish and immature and being a mother is about putting a little person first regardless. She definitely sounds like she could benefit from a person who isn't her friend (and perhaps a bit older, like her mums age) telling her the reality of it.

sent from my watzamajig so may not make sense....

Oops sorry that comes off quite harsh, its a pet hate of mine is all!

sent from my watzamajig so may not make sense....

I think definitely be upfront with your knowledge. There's a reason she has asked you, she must respect your decisions as a mother and want to reflect some of that herself.

I wish I had a friend like you when I was a young mum (had dd at 20 and felt so lost and had no guidance)

Good luck

I think when she answers direct questions, answer them truthfully. Apply them to yourself , as in " well, I did so and so because so and so" you can be gentle about it by not saying what's wrong with her ideas, but rather what's good with yours iTMS.

Also, I think many mums have ideas when they are pregnant about how they raise their children, but once that little baby is in your arms it's a whole new game. I said I would never co-sleep when pregnant with my first but I've ended up sleeping with all three if them.

That's just my thoughts, obviously I don't know these girls so it's hard to really judge how to go about it.

Good luck.


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I think offering your experiences (asking "would you like to know what I did" rather than just giving your opinion itms) is a good thing and also encouraging your friend to research her choices. I had some very specific ideas about how I would do things during pregnancy, birth and raising my child and that has all completely changed before I've even given birth. I didn't think I'd worry so much about what I "should or shouldn't" eat while pregnant, I thought I'd be all for every drug possible during labour and would happily elect for a c section, I planned to have baby in their own room, use CIO and other methods that are certainly not considered gentle parenting. After spending a lot of time reading and hearing other people's experiences (not their opinions on what I should do, just what they did) I have definitely changed my mind about a lot of things because I see the benefits of doing things differently. Had I not researched, I wouldn't have realised how beneficial it was for a babies development to be in the same room as Mum and Dad in those first 6-12 months, not to mention the lowered SIDS risk for example.

Researching her decisions may not change anything and she may still stick with her plans, but at least then she is making informed decisions and I think that's really all you can ask from someone.

It can be really difficult being a young mum especially if it comes as a surprise and you haven't had much exposure. You've barely had time to grow into adulthood yourself and then you have to learning parenting at the same time, it can be pretty overwhelming. I think you should be honest, even if they aren't open to the information at the time, they will then have it for when they are, probably once bub is here and reality sets in.

There is hope, I'm a young surprise mum and had no idea about birth or breastfeeding, about co-sleeping, baby wearing, BLS... the idea of most of that freaked me out but I had two spontaneous drug free active births, I've breastfed my oldest to 3 through a pregnancy and onto tandem feeding and it was the information from people around me that got me to this point. I honestly didn't think I'd breastfeed past 6 months, I thought I would be straight to the epidural, I just had NO idea.

You don't have to be pushy about it, just offer what you have done and why, no real need to go into right and wrong or anything. It is your truth, your experience and there shouldn't be anything offensive about that.

Be honest and pass on information and personal experience and reflection. What she does with it is up to her, but it often takes time and space for things to filter through. Standing back a bit, like you're doing, gives her the opportunity to actually digest the information for herself.

I'd find a good book for her, like Pinky McKay.
You could go deep inside and find the place that houses ll your concern for her wellbeing as a new mum and her new little person's wellbeing and start off by saying "See, the thing is, with these things you think will stop your child being a brat, they are the things that really make a kid think of only themselves and how hard done by they are and turn them into mistrusting teenagers", then back it up with a book that says the same thing or back up your words with things you've read about why CIO is harmful to babies, separated sleeping goes against mammalian evolution and the physical act of breastfeeding builds neural pathways stimulated only by that touch experience. You can go through how no matter how much she wants the baby wants to bond with others, the baby will only readily do so when s/he is secure in her/his relationship with the mother, and that requires all the spesh love, nourishment and holding that she can give, for free, and that will also protect HER from PND, stress and the emotional drain of listening to your baby cry unnecessarily.
Young mums and career woman can be the toughest nuts to crack with the 'surrender' message - to get across that surrendering to what a newborn brings to your life is actually ok and instead of putting a dent in your life, will enhance it with the people skills it brings and the sense of human understanding that can dawn on you if you let it. All the stuff you already know, Lily!
She's asking you because she likes something or a few things about how you do motherhood. What you need to balance here is the wording and timing and what you know. On no account, please, short change your friend and tell her only what you think she wants to hear. Leave your door open and shoot it straight (and empathetically, of course!). She has invited YOUR experience and knowledge xxx

i love the fb group idea. and perhaps if you know a few similar age ladies pregnant you could start a coffee group. might save some energy and the girls can bounce stuff off each other.
alot of new moms really look for answers cause the baby doesn't have instructions as we all well know.
perhaps you can mix up your answers with stuff you have learnt, your experiences and your thoughts.
sounds like you are parenting to an idea and lots don't.
i also think many things will change once the babes are born.
hugs you are a great friend and an awesome mum PZ

Sent from my Galaxy with the barefoot princess covering me in kisses, so please forgive the mistakes

I agree with what Maya said.

Another thing that you may gently want to tell your friend is that once the baby is born she will likely want to spend all her time with it, but I understand that prior to the baby's birth she might not even be able to imagine this. I consider myself a "career woman" and was never very maternal. I planned to work right up until I went into labour and to go back to work within three weeks of DD being born (just take annual leave - no maternity leave). Well, once DD was born, all that went out the window - so chances are that your friend may feel completely differently after the birth.

If she does keep asking questions, talk to her about why she plans to do what she wants to do, in a non-judgmenal way and maybe direct her to some research - someone posted a good article on FB today about breastfeeding helping you to lose weight, so maybe find it and send it to her, etc.

Oh, and the best thing that you can do as a friend is to be there for her after the baby is born. Don't worry so much about what she says now, as chances are she will change her mind.

I exclusively pumped for nearly 2 months while DD was in hospital. It's not fun, it's not easy. It's hard work, and now that I'm BF'ing DS I can honestly say that BF'ing is so much easier and more enjoyable. (although it wasn't so fun the first few days).
And being 6 days PP, there is NO way I'm thinking about going to the gym or losing weight. I can still barely walk around the house without getting too puffed. I just have no energy yet.

I think a young mum's group would be good for her, as well as some antenatal and breastfeeding classes.
The thought of a newborn CIO in their own room makes me cry.

There's some really good advice here. I hope everything works out.

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I have to say I'm one of those friends who would be very blunt. There is no sugar coating what is best for the baby. She sounds like all her wants are quite selfish and immature and being a mother is about putting a little person first regardless. She definitely sounds like she could benefit from a person who isn't her friend (and perhaps a bit older, like her mums age) telling her the reality of it.

sent from my watzamajig so may not make sense....

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I don't think it's fair to say she is selfish. Her attitude could come from how she was brought up or the parenting influences around her. I grew up hearing how I was shut in my room at 2 weeks old to teach me a lesson and it didn't occur to me how wrong that was until I had my own baby in my arms.

I agree, I don't think it's fair to say she's selfish. Until I did my own research, I thought CIO for example was a GOOD thing. Not because I was selfish but because that's all I'd experienced. Smacking and the threat of smacking was what I grew up with and was what I planned to do, until I researched and saw there are other effective ways to discpline and teach children what is appropriate. My parents were far from selfish and sacrificed so much so me and my sisters never went without. We always felt loved and cared for. They did the best with the knowledge they had, just like this young girl I'm sure is doing the best with the knowledge she has. That's why I think encouraging her to expand on that knowledge is a good idea. Had I not expanded my own knowledge, I too would be planning to make 'selfish' decisions once my child arrives.

Firstly I wouldn't discount the difference in her attitude when the baby actually arrives. You know before you've had your first baby and before you've felt that rush of hormones and held that little body who is totally dependent on you, you do think all sorts of crazy things. But this does change for a lot of women. Women go from certain they will take 6 weeks maternity leave to actually having a year off just because it is so different when the time comes. So I guess don't assume she will continue in the same track she is heading now.

Other than that I would answer questions saying what you would do 'when I was faced with X, I did Y, because I felt Z'. Like 'when DD was a newborn I fed her overnight as she demanded it, because their little tummies are so small they can't keep themselves going for a whole night without a refill', that kind of thing. Personally I wouldn't quote statistics because I know if some one did it to me it wouldn't help! When in doubt I always go for the old 'lots of my friends have found XYZ' because it doesn't sound preachy, just observational :) You know, something like 'lots of my friends with babies the same age have found that even if they did CIO the baby was still hungry/wet/hot/cold/in pain and woke up 15 minutes later and the cycle continued, they said it was quicker and easier just to do a feed/nappy change/feed/cuddle, cover the basics and have a content sleeping baby'.

Other than that I would try to encourage her to listen to and trust her own instinct. The fact is as mothers we are driven by instinct to pick up that crying baby and feed it and to hold a baby close and comfort it. It is when we let other ideas and interference that we stop listening to that instinct and start using 'rules'. I would try to instill in her that her immediate instinct when her baby is crying is probably the right one - attend to what ever is making it cry.

On the becoming a clingy baby thing - I dunno that sounds a bit like there is something underlying she is worried about, like she doesn't feel comfortable with affection or close contact or she is scared about being a bad mother and want lots of other people to be around to help. I think I would try and work out if there is something underlying and try to break that down a bit, but other than that I would perhaps discuss that the cause and effect of child behavior is way more complex than just no BF-not clingy and there are many many contributing factors to what could cause a child to be clingy. Or not factors at all, they could just be born that way, BUT the opposite can often be true, if a baby or toddler feels like they aren't getting the attention they need they will often cling to whatever attention they do get and NEVER let go. If they feel like they get enough attention and are secure in the knowledge that mum is there for them IF something bad happens, they will more likely to confidently go out into the world to explore and learn.

Well said Raven. I also think it is perfectly acceptable to be immature at 18 because, well, you are immature at 18!

I think all you can do is offer advice when asked for it PZ, perhaps tempered with a caveat along the lines of "my parenting style/beliefs seem to be very different from what you believe but here is what i'd do....."

I also think there is a difference between giving advice about safety issues and parenting choices or theories. If someone told me outright my theories/beliefs/attitudes were wrong I'd be inclined to tell them to get knotted and think they were being a judgmental biatch. Especially if I was 18. It's partly in the delivery of the message and partly in the content (ie. Which "wrongs" you seek to right) that makes the difference.

I think one of the ways to talk to her about breastfeeding, is maybe to point out that breastfeeding consumes more calories and thus make it easier to loose the baby weight.

Otherwise, all you can do is be there to offer advice when its asked for or needed. It is hard to bite your tongue when you think the person is doing something wrong; but unless it is dangerous, I think you do need to only talk when they are being receptive or when asked. Having said I would personally have to say something about CIO / CC, I do believe that those methods can be used successfully, but NOT before 6mths old!!! Certainly not with a newborn! That is neglect with a newborn!
But at the end of the day, you cann't be responsible for others decisions.

as i said in a further post, oops it came off really harsh! i am just going on experience of friends who had kids at that age, none of whom had changes of heart on arrival their babies.

Sorry for being ignorant but what is CIO and CC?

Cry it out and controlled crying

Thanks! Wow I couldn't let dd do that at such a young age, she only cries for reason.

It is true as pp have said, you change your stance on things after the birth. That being said I've been quite sick since dd's birth so my dreams of being an organized active mum have been on hold.

She'll have to work that out for herself, but maybe when things aren't working how she envisioned after the baby is born you can offer the support and more balanced view :)

PZ, you want to give advice for the best reasons - because you believe you will help a mother have realistic expectaions and help her child.

Personally, I never liked "you should" advice. But I loved hearing stories about "When my child was that age I did XYZ", even when XYZ was completely different to what I planned to do/was doing/did.

Whatever you do, as TFB has intimated, don't 'should'! 'Could' is much better, because it opens it up to the listener that it's something they can decide to take up (informed choice), rather than being prescribed a course of action, which no-one likes ;) 'Shoulding' also implies that the person must come into line with the values of the speaker, and that's why 'shoulds' sit so badly with people, because we all come from such different value bases, and 'should-ing' someone tells them that you think their values are wrong, instead of letting them evaluate which values need adjusting to achieve a desireable goal.
Make sense? You'll get so much further by changing your language, because when you choose your language carefully you are automatically changing your approach to a more considerate one that cares about the person you're speaking to :)

All I can say is that if my SIL didn't inform me of the importance of BF'ing, wraps/slings, birth and well pretty much everything I would be a totally different parent right now!
I know I find it hard sometimes still sleeping with my 4.5 and 2.5 yr old and other lil things but I wouldn't have it any other way.

So I would talk to her and as others have said put her onto some websites, books to have a look at. At least then she will have the knowledge and then still choose what she wishes to do.

I would always offer honest advice. That's probably the best gift you can give her. And she will do what she wants with it. I don't believe being a young mum has any bearing on it, but rather a young-minded mum. If she's young in a maturity level, then the advice might be ignored and even ridiculed (seen this first hand recently). Only you will know how she will take it. But it wouldn't stop me from offering an "alternate" suggestion to her ideas.

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I'd find a good book for her, like Pinky McKay.
She has invited YOUR experience and knowledge xxx

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I was going to say exactly the same thing Mayaness. I reckon get her a good book that supports some of the more gentle approaches. I did this with a friend of mine. They had been given one book and I gave them another as an alternative point of view. In the long run, all parents want to do the best for their child, some just aren't quite aware of just how damaging some decisions could be.

Big :hug: Lily. It's not easy sometimes, but be assured that if she's come to you for advice she obviously respects you and want an honest opinion.

My sister got my kaz cookes book. She is so funny and down to earth but with loads of good info, resources and support people info.
Up the duff was funny as for being pregnant and kid wrangling is awesome.

They are super lucky to have you as a friend

Sent from my Galaxy with the barefoot princess covering me in kisses, so please forgive the mistakes

Thought I would update :)

We had a good chat and I used a lot of the advice given here. At first it was frustrating, as she was asking for my advice but then dismissing what I said, eg "Is pumping hard? It's no different to breastfeeding right?" So I used my own experience. I said that I found that pumping is very different, and a lot more hard work than BF. I said pumping does come with the greater risk of weaning earlier, problems with milk etc, but in the same breath, some people take to it well and can exclusively pump for the duration their children require their milk :) To be met with "It will be easier than breastfeeding because I'll have time to myself." But that's okay, that's her opinion, we'll see. It may be the case for her, who knows.

Anyway, on Thursday (36+2) she messaged me saying she was having back pain and other prelabour symptoms. I said it definitely sounded like her body was warming up. Friday night/early Saturday morning, she messaged me with symptoms that sounded like she was definitely in labour. She gave birth to her little girl last night at 10pm at 36w4d :) She's in scn for 24hrs, then she'll hopefully be given the all clear to go home. She did have a bit of a hard time (in her words, baby had the cord around her neck which the doctor said would mean she'd need to be vacuumed out, so she has a fair few stitches poor thing) but she's so proud and I'm so excited for her! :) What a whirlwind. Glad for all the advice here, I'm much more confident in saying things fairly and tactfully and leaving it at that.

Congrats to your friend PZ! :dance: I read this thread originally and everyone had posted what I thought - I use a lot of "this is what I do" in dealing with friends who deal with things differently to me. I have found over time that as much as I want the best for MY child and do my best to be the best parent ever, my friends are in the same boat wanting to do what is best for their kids. If they ask for advice I give it honestly but otherwise I don't really interfere ITMS! xoxo Good luck to your friend, she sounds lucky to have you!!