Compulsive behavior

I am sure I have started a dozen threads about my DS's (nearly 5) behavior. Here is the latest thing I have no idea what to do about.

He was constantly washing his hands every time someone touched him, then got too lazy to do that so he started licking them (gross!), now if you touch any skin on him he will disappear out of the room and lick his hands and 'wash' wherever he was touched. He also pulls his sleeves down so he doesn't have to touch things and refuses to touch anything that might feel yuck. This has been going on for a few weeks now and I noticed tonight that his hands are red where he has been constantly licking. Why the f*** is he so bloody odd! It isn't normal behavior! He is so frigging hard to parent. He is just the nicest kid sometimes, a really neat boy and then other times.....

It is like he is compelled to do it - if I try to stop him licking he gets very upset and as soon as possible he will do it anyway. He isn't ASD or SPD (recently assessed). It is coinciding with a build up of tantrums again - possibly rising anxiety about starting school in September? He also refuses to wear clothes he says he isn't used to, so will only wear the same two pairs of pants and a few tops. I have been forcing the issue on that one lately and making him wear some things he doesn't want to - do you think the stress of that could be causing the licking thing?

Arrrggghhhh!!!! I don't get enough sleep to deal with this!

What can I do to stop the licking? I have tried telling him that it spreads germs, that it won't clean anything. Even washing his hands in the sink would be preferable to licking!

:hug: I think that this might be something you need professional help with. Your GP can refer you to the appropriate specialists and I think that you can claim it on Medicare of they draw up a mental health plan.

Big hugs hun. I agree with Onyx - sounds a lot like OCD (not that I'm a psychologist so could be very wrong). If you get it checked out and it's nothing, you can stop stressing, and if it is something, you can get him help sooner rather than later. xo

As above, the sooner you get it checked out the sooner you can get some EI happening or if it is nothing then you can start sleeping again. x

That sounds like OCD or PTSD? I would see someone professional if I was you. Must be heartbreaking to see him like this :(

As a short term solution (to address the symptom not the cause) would he wear gloves? Shooter's gloves might work - they are fingerless so he wouldn't lose dexterity but the mitten bit would cover his fingers so he doesn't have to touch stuff. Or fleece gloves are very comfy and not scratchy like some wool gloves.

Also could you get him some worry beads or worry dolls?

Arte, ok your question about the handwashing is making sense now. :hug: Yes the licking thing is weird, and compulsive behaviours are often related to anxiety. I very much doubt that stress over the clothes issue could escalate the licking. It seems more likely that whatever else he is anxious about (moving house, starting school, germs, whatever) is triggering both lots of behaviours (hence an escalation in compulsive behaviours coinciding with the increase in tantrums again).

If it were me, I would get on the phone to the person who assessed him, and specifically ask about the licking and the clothes fixation and ask for them to see you again specifically about this issue, or refer to you the most appropriate service in your area. If it was just one thing you could discount it as a phase, but the clothes thing has been going on for quite a while now and he seems to be developing new fixations as well. Does SPD mean sensory processing disorder? Does that test specifically for tactile sensitivities? If so and these have been ruled out, then it would seem to point towards anxiety/compulsion, and cognitive behavioural therapy might be the best approach for helping him to manage better.

I can understand why you are concerned Artechim :(

Could you perhaps buy him some hand sanitiser and suggest he uses that if he wants to clean his hands???

I agree with PPs that you should take him to a specialist. It cant be very pleasant for him either.

Thanks everyone :hug:

We had a really bad time over feb-march with silly behavior and a lot of tantrums so I got a referral for a child health unit but by the time we got there in April his behavior was settling down and there was only the clothes issue. We had a great May and June but now the wheels are falling off again.

I will give the social worker a call and see where to go from there. Nice to know that I am not overreacting and it is weird.

I thought about some alco-gel hand wash, but would that be encouraging it?

If he tries to wash all the time, constant use of hand or alco washes could damage his skin. What if you gave him a coloured spray bottle and just put water in it, maybe with a few drops of lemon juice. At least he wont be exposed to too many chemicals.

It does sound like OCD/SPD type behaviours so seeing a professional is important. If you think it's anxiety related, maybe doing things that reduce his anxiety will help, whether that's running around playing outside, meditation or listening to relaxing music or having a safe space he can go and be by himself when he starts to feel overwhelmed. Have you tried massage?

I made the stupid mistake of googling OCD :( Now all the things that used to be cute little quirks just scream mental illness :( Like how he loves to hoard little bits of rubbishy stuff, each in it's proper little space. I always found it amusing. Now it is just another thing on the list. Making us repeat a word until we have said it 'right', on the list too.

I contacted the lady we were dealing with a few months ago about tantrums and she is coming up from the city next week to see us. Can't complain about the service - it is a 1.5 hour drive and she didn't want me to have to do it with all three kids. So yay for that :)

The licking is happening all the time now, especially as a stress response. The more upset he is, the more he will lick and 'clean'.

I feel sick about it. How on earth can you F up a kid that badly in only 4 years?!

I keep thinking of all the ways we have failed. We were so bent on him sleeping alone before the next baby arrived, but looking back he wasn't even two years old. Maybe if we had just stayed in the bed with him instead of sneaking off and having him wake alone and scared all night then he wouldn't be so anxious. If I was more patient instead of snapping at him and always rushing him, maybe he wouldn't get so stressed out :( He is a good kid and I growl at him too much for minor things :( I am sure he has learned to overreact to small things because I do :(

If it is OCD, is it something that kids can outgrow? The thought of him spending his whole life struggling with this....

mate you haven't F him up at all. you are doing the right thing and getting him some help, he may not even have it!

Arte, you didn't do anything that has brought this on or influenced it. He could just as likely still be like this even if you didn't try to get him into his own bed :hug: Don't go jumping the gun with the OCD - it may not be that at all. W is a complex kid, you know that yourself, and this is just another thing that's emerged. That's great the therapist is going to come to you on such short notice too. Hopefully she can point you in the right direction to try to help him. In the meantime, would it make a difference if you gave him something to lick? Even a lolly pop or something he can have instead of licking himself?

:comfort: it sounds as though he has an imbalance of some sort. that means his brain works differently to yours. it is not something u caused by not doing something or rather. and by ggetting him assessed you will give him the gift of life. a life were u understand him and he can get help to live as "normal" as he can and that is totally awesome

Sent from my Galaxy with the barefoot princess covering me in kisses, so please forgive the mistakes

How is everything going art?

Thanks for asking xx

Not too bad, did a bit more reading on OCD and he only seems to have the compulsion, not the obsessive thoughts which is a good thing. It also seems pretty common for kids to have symptoms of it at some point and not go on to develop the full disorder.

It is bloody frustrating though, I don't know if I should be ignoring it or telling him to stop. He won't take anything out of my hand, I have to put it down for him to pick up. When I kiss him goodnight he licks his hand and washes his whole face. Where he licks his hand it is red and sore looking :(

What is he scared of? Germs? Viruses? I don't get it

I don't get it either. He can't say why he does it. Doesn't seem to have any fear of anything, he just does it. It is totally weird. And it is actually getting a bit embarrassing in public.

Arte, do you think he will put some cream on it to help with that? It sounds like he's developed lick eczema - heaps of kids get it around their mouths from licking their lips and from dribble etc, but if he's constantly licking the same spot on his hands, it's only natural he will get it there too. Maybe laying down some ground rules will help with where he does it? Or even get him some gloves to wear in public at least?

Not much chance with the cream, he has never liked having creams on and since I can't touch his hands now... unless I do it while he is asleep?

I tried some gloves today and they worked for a while until he took them off. Might give them another go tomorrow. I don't think ground rules will work, he can't even not do it when I am sitting 2 feet away telling him not to do it!

It sounds like my DD with tics. Telling her not to do it is useless. She has no control over it :(

Hugs hun, I have no advice but I'm here and on fb anytime. I hope you get some answers soon xo

Arte, I'm really pleased that the lady is coming up to see you about this. Even though it's confronting for you, it will be reassuring to talk to someone about it. I hope you come away with some specific strategies to try and also an offer of ongoing contact if you need it. In the meantime, try not to stress over it. It's just a thing. Plenty of people have strange little soothing behaviours, some of them are more common than others (thing nail-biting, for example) but it's just a small part of an otherwise full and balanced life. :hug:

The cream while he is sleeping sounds good.
I think its worth persisting with the gloves, may take weeks for him to get it. Maybe if you worked it in the routine of going out? Shoes jacket gloves.
I hope the lady can help.
Hugs

Sent from my Galaxy with the barefoot princess covering me in kisses, so please forgive the mistakes

I was going to suggest OCD or anxiety. Or both. DD2 is SPD & it does suprise me that he's not from some of the things you said.
:hug: I'd go back to the gp.

If you can't put cream on him, would he allow you to spray it with something? Or even spray it while he's asleep so he doesn't feel it?

I really think he should be assased again. I don't know about OCD with him, the only experience I have is my sister but she's very much thought based.
It sounds spd to me. Either way. I think it's really important that you get him checked again.

This has nothing to do with anything you have done! I understand the guilt, I deal with it too, but there is nothing you could have done to prevent this. Xxx


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Can SPD just appear when they are this age though? It has come on in the last 6ish weeks. Certainly is related to anxiety e.g. we went on a school visit the other day but even though he looked fine and liked it, every time the teacher spoke to him he licked his hands or fingers.

MD, I know it is just a thing, but he just has so many things! I am sure we will get thought it though. Sigh.

It may not be something that just appears, but I guess until this point, there have probably been a lot of little things in isolation that have happened/that he does, that you haven't really thought much about, but when you look at it all in hindsight and put it all together, then you start to see that it's been building for a while. He's had the clothes issue for a long time, and that's a sensory thing - he's told you he wont wear new clothes because he doesn't know how they will feel, yet he is completely comfortable in his older, worn in clothes. I just had a look at some info on it, and he ticks a few of the SPD boxes for sure, but not near enough that you'd ever say he had it - kinda like how most people will all have a few aspie or OC traits kwim? I found the info here http://www.spdaustralia.com.au/does-my-child-have-spd/. You may have already found it, but if you haven't you can see that he certainly doesn't have most of what they say on that list.

When you were at the school the other day, did the teacher say anything about the licking? If you make him go to school, then it might be a real problem and you really need to talk to the teacher about it and find out what they can do to help him. Explain that you are trying to find out what's going on. Otherwise he will get to school and they may just think it's misbehaviour and try to make him stop it. Or is it even possible to hold him back to start in the new year and give you more time to work on him and try to help him?

I haven't ever really thought SPD, he does some things but not enough to think that it is an issue. He won't wear the new clothes because he is 'not used to them'. He hasn't tried them on to find out if he likes the feel or not lol.

The teacher didn't say anything about the licking, but it is probably just passing odd if you only see it a couple of times.

I am very hesitant to delay school - he is angsty enough about it now and leaving it until the new year will only see him worrying about it for an extra six months. He isn't the sort of kid that would just put it from his mind. I am hoping I can get in enough school visits to make him more comfortable with it. He left the other day saying it was much better than he thought it would be.

I guess I just have to wait and see what this lady says next week. I am sure we will be able to deal with this, and the next thing, and the thing after that just like we have with everything that has come before. I am so tired :(

Awww Arte :hug: it certainly hasn't been an easy ride with him that's for sure. The school thing is a catch22 - holding him back could give him a chance to work through what's going on, but yeah, like you say it could also give him an extra 6 months of worry.

If he starts school, you can always pull him out & restart him next year if it causes too much anxiety.

Goodluck :)

Perhaps you could start a behaviour chart.
A daily chart sectioned into time frames, hourly or whatever, and you can mark your basic routine in, some people have a key for set behaviours Ie #- licks etc.
There maybe a pattern, when he is tired he may do something. If you could keep a food diary too it could help.
Just ideas, not sure how practical they are for your situation.
Keep in mind that some of us don't fit entirely into 1pigeon hole, but can be bits and pieces of a few.
My ds1 can't be pigeon holed but has special features in his personality we make allowances for.
Clothes are a mega for him too. 2nd handshops are a blessing because he can tell straight away if something is comfortable- and most tags are then soft or have been removed already.


Sorry if it doesn't make sense, the barefoot princess is covering me with kisses

Thanks Doubletrouble. We have a reward chart for positive behavior/housework which is going quite well. I can already see that he licks more when upset/anxious - just chilling out at home he only does it is someone touches him, but if he is getting worked up he will do it more.

I have had him low sugar since about April and it has made a noticeable difference. Now he has a dairy food in his lunch box and maybe a small ice-cream as a special treat once in a while and that is about it for sweet stuff.

School is another headache. He is already miles ahead of the other kids. At the school visit the other day they were learning to recognize letters, something he has been doing since before he turned 3. Then they practiced writing a letter - he is writing in (adorably misspelled) sentences. In the time the rest of the class copied the sentence the teacher had written for them, he had written two by himself and drawn detailed pictures to go with them. A few months ago his reading age was 6.4 and he has improved since then. It is going to be boring enough for him to relearn everything as it is, if I delay him 6 months then he is going to be so far ahead that he won't be able to join in at all.
People have told me that each 'lesson' is only 5-10 minutes so he won't get bored, but it seems to me that lots of little lessons on things he already knows will get boring pretty quickly. Guess we will just have to see how it all goes.
ETA, Trill, you saw this coming a mile away lol. So did I, but it was either help him learn or he just disappears into his room and practices by himself.

I had DD2 assessed recently for SPD, I did a questionnaire that was graded by an OT and specialist teacher, she's boarderline for two, tactile and vestibular (both sensory seeking).
She also doesn't like new clothes, unless she picks them herself, hates woollen clothing has done since quite young.
As she's boarderline we don't need to see an OT but thats who I'd recommend you seek out for help

:hug:

He is very lucky to have such a devoted mummy :loveshower:
I think you are doing a great job.
Agree that keeping him home from school doesn't look like a good thing for him and you will get a well earnt break.
Once the assessor has been i hope you will have more answers and then talking to the school will be good. I think once the teachers know him they can help too. He sounds Like a very special wee soul :)

Sorry if it doesn't make sense, the barefoot princess is covering me with kisses

It might not be an issue though Arte. If the classes are that small, then there should be no reason why the teacher cann't extend him - much different if it was a close of 20+ kids, but in a class as small as that it should be no problem.

I had a behaviour social worker around yesterday and we talked about it and narrowed down the licking to asserting his own space. He has never been cuddly and has always been a bit standoffish. He seems to be trying to create his own untainted area around his own body (and his most special toys which he licks if anyone else touches them).

Then we had another social worker today (diff agency, but both work together). She did a kindy observation and spent some time with him. We may get a support worker to help with the school transition, so he will get used to them at kindy and they will go over to school with him when he starts.

How are you feeling about all that hun? Do you feel like they hit the nail on the head?

That's great that he might get a support worker!

That sounds like you're getting somewhere Arte.

Arte, that's great it sounds like there's some support forthcoming re W's transition to school. I hope you're feeling a bit better about where this is at. Have they suggested any strategies for addressing the licking/clothes things directly, or are they running with trying to reduce his anxiety/restore more of a sense of control?

Sorry, hope you don't mind the questions. xxx