Feeling conflicted, guilty and undecided about how to birth baby #2

Hi Ladies,

So with the memory of my Son's Birth still lingering at the back of my mind I am really struggling to decide how I am going to birth my second.

Every part of me is saying Caesarean - but everyone I have told as given me "the look" sort of like a mixture of pity and disappointment. This really makes me upset, they don't know what I went through and why on earth should I have to justify myself to them.

So what I want to know is, why did you decide to have a caesarean? Was it because you had to have one, because you wanted to have one, or because like me you had a traumatic birthing experience first time around and didn't want to put yourself through it again?

Any experiences welcome....I don't know what I want to get out of this, only support to make my own decisions I guess :(

Sorry if this thread is pointless....baby brain and guilt are making me feel out of touch with myself.

One of the reasons I am certain that I don't want anymore children is so I don't have to make this decision. No-one has a right to give you funny looks because you're having a tough time. If they haven't been through a difficult labour followed by a c-section they have no idea what you're going through :hug:

If I did have to choose I would probably go with the c-section. I'm very grateful to live in a modern Western society because after 2 labours I'm pretty sure that my body is crap at birthing and that in the old days I would have been one of the many women who died in child birth.

I can't offer any advice cause my first bub is still cooking, but I just wanted to say to hell with everyone else. Don't feel guilty if you decide a c section is what will be best for you. They are not the ones that need to go through the birth, you are so you need to do what id best for you and your baby. Maybe instead of telling people you're going to opt for a c section, just tell them you'll see what happens if they ask. Unless of course it's the doctor/midwife giving the look in which case they deserve a boot up the bum :hug:

Thanks for your support ladies :) I think it's just the unknown of what could happen either way that kinda freaks me out. Maybe as you said Miss Dee I should just keep my mouth shut about the birth, by the time the baby comes they will be too wrapped up in it to ask me how it came out. Onyx - funny you should mention thank god for modern medicine, I would have been in the same boat as you, without the epidural to relax me and allow me to fully dilate I think both DS and I would have died...there was no way he was coming out otherwise...sad to think of what could have been if some of us had given birth 100 years ago!

Blondie, I just read your birth story. I can understand not wanting to repeat that again :hug:. I think that pregnancies go for 9 month ish to give Mum time to get ready emotionally as well as physically, I know i needed that time 2nd time around to get my head around what happened the first time and what i wanted to do differently for #2.

When i didn't want to deal with other people's issues or reactions to my plans, i found it easier to be really vague or say that i was exploring my options. You are right in that nobody knows exactly your circumstances, and what will work best for you. And really it isn't any of their business.

Best wishes for your pregnancy and an awesome birth.

Thanks lovely :) I didn't think of it like that, I should take that time to consider my options. I think people's reactions disappointed me because I was expecting support and when I didn't get it, was kind of taken aback....but I guess that's why I joined BB - so that I can get support and discuss things without being judged.

Maybe being vague would be an idea....perhaps if I am vague enough it will make them realise that they have no business asking in the first place ;)

Unless the person/people in question is offering to be a gestational carrier for your baby they get no say in how it is born. That's up to you, bub and a lesser extent, your healthcare provider.

Im sure you wouldn't dream of telling someone they couldn't birth vaginally, so why should they tell you you can't have a planned c-section?

That said, if you did want another vaginal birth, I am sure there are lots of women on BB who could offer advice and information on helping you confront your fears. Either way, wishing you a wonderful, healing birth experience!

Hi,
I just read your birth story and I can see how you wouldn't want to go through that again. I've had 3 caesars (and tried to avoid each of them), but I can honestly say that an elect caesar is far better than an emerg one after labouring. I had an obs who was supportive of me trying for vba2c but I ended up getting pre-eclampsia, so she booked me in for a caesar. This meant that i got a midwife allocated to me in recovery and got bubs to stay with me and we had our first feed in recovery. I think there's also some studies re: the mental and emotional recovery is much quicker when a c/s is planned vs when it's not planned etc.

My third c/s was by far the better out of the three. Maybe just tell people that you're going to see how things pan out (and then just do what suits you), so you don't have to deal with their reactions. I got the opposite reaction to you: lots of doubt and fear about trying vbac etc and I felt that I had to justify my reasons. The non-committal line about 'seeing how things pan out' was much easier to trot out to anybody who asked.
Good luck and I hope you have a better birth experience this time around!

This is no one's decision but yours and no one has the right to judge you.

How do you think you are going to feel in the future about how you birth your baby? If you went with the planned cs do you think you would look back and feel disappointed with yourself, or would you feel relief? If you went ahead and tried for a vaginal birth and succeeded I'm assuming you would feel mighty good about it, but if you attempted it and it didn't go to plan and you ended up with a cs anyway, would you look back on it with regret? Or be proud that you tried? At the end of the day it will be you that feel the most emotion about your birth, so it's completely up to you how you do so.

Best of luck to you! ♥

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Unless the person/people in question is offering to be a gestational carrier for your baby they get no say in how it is born. That's up to you, bub and a lesser extent, your healthcare provider.

Im sure you wouldn't dream of telling someone they couldn't birth vaginally, so why should they tell you you can't have a planned c-section?

That said, if you did want another vaginal birth, I am sure there are lots of women on BB who could offer advice and information on helping you confront your fears. Either way, wishing you a wonderful, healing birth experience!

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Thanks so much :) Yeah there are heaps of people on here who have had a traumatic birth and then had a beautiful birth second time around - I take my hat off to them. Might be worth a read of their birth stories for some positive outcomes :)

Oh totally, I would never ask a Woman how she plans to birth....nor would frown on them for their choice. Any of my friends who have gone into that kind of detail I have always offered support. I even had my DH's step brother's Fiancee who has never had a baby tell me not to have a C-section because I will be a cripple :o I felt like saying "Oh yeah I was coming up roses with my 40 hour labour and 3c tear last time! :rolleyes:

I think listening to your healthcare provider is important - they usually have a reason medically for why things need to happen and at the end of the day, I just want to hold my baby in my arms like every mother :heartbeat:

Hi Blondie.

I had an induced labour first time, was at 3cms at the beginning and after 8hrs was still at 3cms. My body wasn't dialating and DS1 was in distress so I had an emergency c-section. With DS2 I had planned to attempt a VBAC. I considered my options for a while and after reflecting on my last labour and talking to another midwife, I decided that the risks of me ending up with a similar experience, coupled with the fact that my mother also never dialated fully with her labours I decided to have another c-section. My body responded really well to the second ceasar and it was a lovely experience which included me breastfeeding DS2 as I was wheeled through the halls of the hospital back to my room.

I made my decision based on my own research and information. This was MY birth and no-body else had any right to comment on it.

I, like the PP's, think it is no one else's business how you birth your baby and you should make the decision which is right for you and no one else. I did want to offer you some reassurance that a difficult first delivery does not necessarily mean that your subsequent deliveries will be difficult. My DD1 was an obstructed labour with a distressed baby - an extensive episiotomy, failed ventouse and eventual forceps delivery. Hideously traumatic and the physical and mental recovery were difficult. When I birthed DS two years later, I was terrified, expecting the same experience. DS was a straightforward vaginal delivery with no assistance and a minor tear. I had DD2 5 years later and she practically fell out. :D

After DD1's delivery, I lost faith in my body's ability to birth. I thought that perhaps my body just wasn't made for it, or that I didn't have the mental strength to do it properly.

Whatever you decide, surround yourself with people who support you and ignore the other people.

Threegraces - yeah I have heard the same thing....having time to process what is going to happen might make it easier emotionally on me. Thanks for sharing your story.

Mylitta - I do have to say at the end of my labour with DS I was like Yeah I did it, I felt like I had finished my marathon and I had my prize! LOL I can see your point. I guess that is why I am conflicted too....I want to chose a c-section for the right reasons - whether it be emotionally or physically. I definetly want to be happy. I guess I would kind of feel ripped off if I tried for natural and then ended up emergency c-section....not sure why though - after all I just want my baby to come out safe and sound. Maybe cause I was threatened with it last time.

Nickle - Thanks for the encouragement :) It's lovely to hear that people can have a traumatic experience and then have a "normal" delivery. Your first Daughter's birth was a horrific experience. Your very brave!

Melbournemumma - Your story is so encouraging as well, Knowing that mentally & physically I have made the right decision for me is very important and leads to a positive outcome. It's all about informed choices right!

I didn't have a traumatic first birthing experience with my DD (ended up c-sect, failure to progress) but the thought of booking straight in for the c-sect crossed my mind. I think it is nobodys business or right to judge you on how you choose to deliver your baby.
It wasn't until I chatted to my DH & OBS (going private again) that I chose VBAC.
Funny how people support or don't support you depending on what you say. I take the path of saying VBAC (for those who know I had a c-sect) but am open to another c-sect if it has to go that way.

My gf had a difficult (not sure if she uses the word traumatic) first birth with a 3rd degree tear and opted straight for c-sect. She didn't even think for a moment of VBAC and that was her choice, and hers only.

If you do have thoughts lingering about a VBAC then explore that now and make an informed decision either way. Do what is best for you & best of luck.

Thanks so much RhiChiChi - Maybe after a talk with my OB I will feel more inclined to go one way or another. My appointment is in Oct :)

Gosh maybe it's just the pregnancy hormonees but I am overwhelmed by all the support I have recieved - thank you all so much :hug: it means so much to me that everyone is being so encouraging and positive. It makes me feel empowered to know that I am the master of my own destiny.....Oh dear, I sound like an extra from Starwars! :lol: If people at work haven't already guessed i'm pregnant they will soon know when they look in the corner and see the fat lady blubbering at her computer :lol:

I'm like Onyx - I think if it wasn't for interventions and I'd had to birth 200 years ago, I would definitely have died in childbirth.

DD1 was a forceps delivery. I pushed for close to three hours with absolutely no movement (or at least that's how it seemed to me). Utterly futile but I was with an ob who I chose because he is anti-intervention as much as possible.

Unfortunately, I also had severe SPD (pelvic instability) so the three hours of pushing with my knees against my shoulders did me, I believe, irreparable damage. I still can't get into that position without being in severe pain five years later. Anyhow, this has had a huge impact on my life. Housebound after having DD1 because I couldn't walk very far, couldn't lift her etc. etc. Moved to a house with no stairs because I can't do stairs very well.

SPD is something that gets worse in every pregnancy. At 7 weeks pregnant with DD2, I was told I would be in a wheelchair. I managed to avoid that by doing very little, but I was housebound AGAIN.

Bear with me, here comes the bit that's relevant to you. Despite all the evidence telling me that a vaginal birth would likely be difficult and likely to once again cause me many difficulties post-birth, I still faced judgement from people when I told them I was considering an elective caesarean AND I still thought maybe it was a copout. Now, I can't believe I was so stupid that I let other people's opinions make me feel bad. I had spoken to my physio AND several independent midwives who all told me that they believed a caesar was the best option for me OR at the very most I should only push for 20 minutes absolute max to minimise further damage.

End result was I had an elective caesarean. Best thing I ever did. Although I have ongoing issues with SPD, my recovery after the caesar was much, much better than after the VB.

At the end of the day, we are all different. Choose what's right for you and please, don't let anyone make you feel guilty about your choices. They didn't experience what you experienced.

I am also having a cs this time purely by choice - not made lightly but it's what I've chosen.
I've stopped telling people I'm having an elective because it's 1) none of their business and 2) I'm sick of the looks, judgement and feeling I need to explain my decision.

You know what is best for you and your baby. Other mothers should be on your side and understanding but unfortunately we spend more time judging than supporting usually.

All the best!

I know people who have told people they're having electives and they have nothing but support - maybe it's just down to who your friends are? Having said that, many would not support my planned freebirth, so I suppose it's down to the life choices of your friends what they support. But they won't be told until after the event. (Just to say for modern "treatment" - had I birthed 100 years ago I wouldn't have the physical and mental damage, so to me it's all swings and roundabouts. I'm pleased that women don't die in childbirth as much, but at what cost?)

It is your body and your baby. You need to minimise the damage that will be done to you in birthing your first child and if that means an elective then you do that. No-one has the right to judge you for that. Hugs to you and I am cross you are facing this from "friends".

You are right The Flying Butter.
I don't think it's just caesars.
It's homebirthing, water birthing, deciding to take drugs etc etc the list goes on for miles.

The thing is its about choice. A woman who chooses her birth is empowered. And no one should make them feel bad for that decision whether you have a cs or a vbac. But let me tell you no matter what birth you want you still worry. So try and forget everyone else and do what's best for you. :hug:

FionaS - thanks so much for sharing....I would have gone C/S for sure! And I can imagine 6 weeks of discomfort would have been easier than months and years of rehabilitation.
I was the same, my tear took ages and ages to heal and everything suffered because of it....IYKWIM

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories and wisdom....hearing that other's have had similar experiences with friends and judgement makes me sad. Maybe it's just me but I would never comment on how someone chooses to birth it's such an individual thing!

I have also talked it over with DH and there is so much to consider. DS's birth really effected him too. He was a wonderful supportive husband but the whole ordeal with exhausting and upsetting for him and I also have him to consider in this equation.

Hi blondie,

You already have plentyof stories here and the support I agree has been amazing! I am 8 weeks off having my first elective csection. When I had my dd 2 years ago I sustained a 4th degree tear. A csection has always been recommended but at the end of the Day it has ultimately been mine and dh decision to have the csection. My recovery from the tear is fine now and I have no long term issues that I am aware of. The actual recovery was difficult and i have watched my friends recover better and quicker from emergency csections than I did after my vaginal birth with dd. at the end of the day I had to ask myself how I would look after dd and a new born if I tore worse this time round and emotionally (and physically to some extent) I don't feel like I could. I have to remind myself everyday that this is why I have made the decision I have for the csection. I have spoken to lots of people that I trust, my ob, GP and physio and ultimately feel I have made the right decision (I guess you will never truly know). In addition, after I had dd I was taken off the surgery and not able to get out of bed etc etc. emotionally I foundit really difficult and now I feel like at least i will some of what to expect prior to going in at least.

At the end of the day it's your decision and yes 'the look' is always an interesting one! I now proudly tell people that I am having an elective csection cos I believe at the end of the day how baby comes out does not reflect on how good of a mum I am!

Good luck with your pregnancy and congrats!!!

MumtoA - thanks for sharing your story. Yikes! 4th degree would have been very uncomfortable. You know how you said that you were taken off to surgery straight away that was the same for me. I remember DH cutting the cord and then me holding DS, I don't really remember much only that I had a few minutes with him and then they realised I tore and whisked me off to surgery. I didn't see him then for ages. Not until I was in recovery...even then I had the shakes so bad that I couldn't hold him :( I was exhausted for days afterwards and DS & DH were tired too, so I like you can't help but think that it would have been easier to have a csection. I will be taking these things into account when making my decision for this baby.

Best of luck with your birth! Keep me in the loop on how you found it :)

If the only reason you're doubting yourself is other peoples opinions, then I'd say go straight for the CS. If there are other reasons then perhaps start a pro/con list for each type of birth and then you can add/modify it as your pregnancy progresses and hopefully this will help you come to a decision.

Listening to your healthcare providers is just one side of the story. You need to find healthcare providers that will listen to YOU. Find someone who you can talk this through with - in Brissy you can get along to Birthtalk's Healing From Birth nights (if you haven't already) and I think you'll find there a great opportunity to talk this out, and work out what you really want.
Don't let this choice belong to anyone but your family.

Thanks Chody :) might be a good idea.

Audax - are the people that run these courses midwives? Sounds silly but I was really let down by my midwives in birth so I have some trust issues there, part of the reason I am not going back to the midwifery group practice. Maybe if I do go to a session I could work some of these issues out?

Blonde, your choice is your own and no one can take that away from you. There is nothing to apologise for or feel guilty about in choosing a c/s.

Having said that, maybe it's worth exploring why it makes you feel bad to be considering c/s this time. Do you feel supported by your care providers and your DH? Do you think there are things that happened in your DS's birth that you need to debrief so that you can feel at peace and able to prepare yourself this time (regardless of your choice)? Do you think maybe you'd like more info before you choose, or to explore all the options a bit more?

Whatever it is that you need to do, do it and you can really own your choice. Then you won't care what anyone you speak to thinks about your decision, you'll be at peace with it.

Think about what you really want from this birth. Research how to get that. Find care providers to support it. You know your body best, so decide what really matters to you in this birth.

FWIW the experience of your first birth does not have to be repeated second time around (I and many other women on here can attest to that). But you can't expect to prepare yourself the same way, go with the same care providers, in the same setting and have a completely different outcome. Something does have to change. Maybe it is the way you plan to give birth (ie elective c/s), maybe it's some of the other things around you. I think you're wise not to go with those you feel let you down. I'm so sorry you weren't respected for your first birth.

Wishing you the best as you get ready to welcome your new baby.

I hope you are able to surround yourself with people who care for you and who will work with you to make sure you get the best birth possible :hug:

Thanks Jennifer and MadB :) I think during most first birthing experience you are so vulnerable....you tend to do what they want you to do and not what feels right for you because you have placed complete trust in these people around you...well I know this was the case for me. And I guess for me it's fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...IYKWIM. This time around I am detirmined to have a good experience what ever it may be. And perhaps debriefing my last labour (as many of you have suggested) before I go into this one would be a wise idea :thinking:

Thank you all so much :hug:

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Audax - are the people that run these courses midwives? Sounds silly but I was really let down by my midwives in birth so I have some trust issues there, part of the reason I am not going back to the midwifery group practice. Maybe if I do go to a session I could work some of these issues out?

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One is a doula. Not sure about the other, but they're independent of the hospital system. They have a really popular blog, and their FB page is great too.

You're not alone there, Blondie. Some mums come out of it intact, some do not. Demand better for yourself and your baby

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Unless the person/people in question is offering to be a gestational carrier for your baby they get no say in how it is born. That's up to you, bub and a lesser extent, your healthcare provider.

Im sure you wouldn't dream of telling someone they couldn't birth vaginally, so why should they tell you you can't have a planned c-section?

That said, if you did want another vaginal birth, I am sure there are lots of women on BB who could offer advice and information on helping you confront your fears. Either way, wishing you a wonderful, healing birth experience!

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This ^^

I too had a very traumatic birth, with internal tearing and awful repercussions.

This is something I really struggled with, and was quite depressed about with DS2. I felt guilt, I felt shame. I fluctuated from intense fear, to feelings of laziness and unworthiness ...

Ultimately, I saw a specialist to get a risk assessment done, and learned what the risks were of a repeat performance - and to get a professional opinion about the safety of all concerned.

I also spent many sessions with my counsellor discussing the choice, and trying to wrap my head around it.

At the end of the day, this is your body, and the method of entry into the world is only one part of the tapestry that forms your nurturing and care of your child.

If you will be in a state of fear, or if you will suffer injury from the birth, that needs to be weighed up against the emotional and physical toll of a c-section.

For me and my family, while I was absolutely not happy about needing a c-section, I eventually accepted that it was what would be best for my family, in all the circumstances.

And in hindsight, I made the right decision for us personally.

While I was very nervous about what others might say (not because I feel I need to justify my choices, just because I didn't want to have to defend myself, as it's no one else's sodding business!!) I was pleasantly surprised that I had basically no negative comments, and if people seemed a little down-nosed about my choice, a very brief, "DS1's birth went very badly, and so we need to have a c-section this time" was basically the end of the discussion.

You shouldn't have to justify yourself.

But some people will always say things, either from ignorance or curiosity or thinking they know better, or intentions of helping ... take anything that is helpful, and let the rest go. Come onto BB and vent about it, or just ignore it, or tell them that you understand they might have an opinion, but you only need positive and helpful comments, thanks all the same.

Some people do have a fabulous second birth - don't rule anything out at this early stage. Heaps of women here have managed to have safe and empowering vaginal deliveries, despite an awful first delivery. Look around, and chat to them.

Get some professional opinions. Talk it through. Weigh up your options. And then pick.

But having a c-section because you want to avoid a second traumatic birth is nothing to be bashful about. It's not taking the easy way out. It's not harming your child. It is part of a process whereby YOU decide what is going to lead to YOUR child having a safe entry to the world, with a safe and happy mumma.

Good luck with your decision making process xx

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Audax - are the people that run these courses midwives? Sounds silly but I was really let down by my midwives in birth so I have some trust issues there, part of the reason I am not going back to the midwifery group practice. Maybe if I do go to a session I could work some of these issues out?

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Blondie, i too was let down by hospital 'midwives'. I have met some amazing women working as independent midwives who really are 'with women', and totally diferent to any of the women i encountered in hospital. I have heard good things about Birthtalk. Have a look at their website, and see if it appeals. birthtalk dot org.

Hi Ladies,

I actually had a really great night last night. I went to bed feeling excited about having my second and all your help has definetly empowered me to make my own decision this time around. For the first time since I fell pregnant I feel like I do have a say in what happens to me and bub....

I have recieved such great support from all of you and I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. With all your help, advice and suppotive words it's helped me to realise that no one has the right to tell me how to birth my baby, and at the end of the day it's the decision for me & DH to make for us and for our family. I am also detirmined not to go into this birth scared or unsure of myself and my abilities. I am going to surround myself with supportive people and the others can get stuffed! :)

This thread has been an absolute lifesaver. I can't thank you all enough :grouphug:

Hoti - I will be sure to check out the website

Audaux - thanks for the clarification. I have just learn't what a doula is thanks to Boomba :redface: I hadn't heard of them prior to this thread. They sound like the perfect mix don't they? Supportive and knowledgable!

MadB - :hug: thank you lovely. I think demand is a good word....there is no use is in "asking" or "wishing" for something to go my way. I have to stand up and be heard!

Blessed at last - Thanks darl :hug:

Peanutter - I'm glad that you were at peace with your decision, for some it's an easy decision but I think I will be like you, needing to explore every avenue before I am comfortbale and at peace with what will happen :) Your very wise my friend.

I am so happy that you feel so supported and more at ease at making a decision for you & your family. Whatever the decision you make, again best of luck and KUP x

Blondie - another thought, is whether you need what I like to call a birthing b**** with you at the hospital. I have been a birthing b**** once, and a bride's b**** several times.

Their role is basically to make sure you get what you want, and are heard and advocated for at the critical times. They know what you want, and what specific things are non-negotiable for you, and when you, your DH, your mum etc may be wavering or shy or feeling like an imposition, or exhausted or in too much pain or distraction or whatever to pursue things, ask enough questions or *whatever* the birthing b****'s job is to press in.

Someone unafraid and unashamed to go in to bat full pelt when needed.

Sometimes this is an independent midwife or doula, or maybe it's a family member or friend who you know will 110% back you up and press on for your wishes to be heard and respected.

I was happy enough to do this for myself last time about things critical to me (skin to skin asap, vernix left on, bf in recovery, baby stays with me at all times, etc) but I have friends who are not quite as comfortable being assertive, who have benefited from someone who is informed, respectful and caring, but also happy to be (bossy, bit*hy, aggressive, demanding, staunch) assertive when needed.

Don't get me wrong - let's not stop medical practitioners from doing what they need to do, or rendering good and proper care, and let's absolutely not be rude or shout or not let the birthing mother change her mind! But sometimes it's good to leave someone trusted with a list of priorities, and let them make sure the job gets done.

It can bring you comfort and condifence, and let you concentrate on the important things - like birthing the baby, whether vaginally or otherwise.

Let us know how you're doing Blondie. You sound more empowered already and that's a great place to get to for decision-making!

Peanutter - love what you had to say. Xx

Peanutter, what happens when the birthing b* is ignored because the husband can be bullied and his word is "more important" - ie, he's more compliant?

There's something getting me angry on this thread, and it's no longer the friends questioning the C-section. It's this: why the blue blazes should we have to educate ourselves, fight, have people to fight for us in the hospital, be belittled, tortured, come out of "birthing" feeling abused and like we cannot ever do this again so surgery/freebirth is the only option?

This is NOT to have a go at you for feeling like this, Blondie (I feel the same, hence putting freebirth in the question above). It's having a go at the establishment who have done this to you. It's attacking the fact we accept that poor old first-time mums are going to be abused and we can't stop it, we can just try to fight it. Guess what? I tried to fight. I ended up alone and in tears, threatened with a hysterectomy if I didn't comply (as my DH would sign anything and that's consent, apparently). How is that ever OK? And why are we playing into the system by accepting it and saying how we are going to do fire-fighting at the time and most of the time it ends up with the blaze (ie the Obs/mids) getting out of control? I say we need to get rid of the rot by getting rid of the whole establishment.

I truely hate maternity "care", because as far as I see, we all acknowledge that it doesn't exist, or it's something we have to hunt high and low for.