VENT: It's not that hard!!! CCR/CCB

So, my girls started at cc last week. I gave the centre the details that i'm claiming 0% CCB therefore the 50%CCR will be paid straight to the centre. NOT 35% CCR to the centre and 15% withheld.

So, fees come out of my account at the 35%!!! GRRRRR.
I have called the centre (and i'm sure they think i'm making it up) to ask why it was done at 35% and not 50%. The response being "we've never had anyone do it this way". I've printed out the childcare attendence page from online services that shows that 50% was paid straight to the centre. I have to take this down to the centre to show them. So in theory I should be in credit with the centre because they have charged it at 35%. We'll see what happens.

She keeps saying that she has followed it up and keeps being told that it's calculated on 35%. IT"S NOT!!!! It's 50%!!!!!!!

I know that it seems like a small thing, but being charged $40 a week extra is/will hurt. I'm concerned if I don't sort it now, it'll keep happening. I'm sure they are going to hate me until I work it out. I want to get it sorted before the next lot of fees come out on Friday.

It might not be the centre.. From my understanding, they send all the details off to centrelink and they advise what percentage amount is to be deducted. Otherwise when things change, it would be a huge mess for the centre to sort out..

I totally understand your frustration though.. There were times when the percentage difference was a big deal to us, and it was horrible having more money taken than what we were expecting.

Hello

I do this too and when I set how I want to get paid the CCR by Centrelink (I do this online), they tell me that they will withhold 15% just in case I underestimate my income by the end of the FY. If not, they return the 15% when I claim my tax return.

But jaz I'm not getting any Ccb. It should just be a straight 50% difference.

:-/

I'm unsure... but that is definitely from the Centrelink though (or human resources department) not with the Childcare.....

Maybe call Centrelink?

Removing as I have been corrected (not taking offence by the correction BTW).. But was trying to explain as friends in a similar situation advised me..

It should never be 35%. Ever.

The amount held back by Centrelink is 15% of your 50%. Which comes out to 7.5c in the dollar. The most you should be paying if you have your ccr paid direct to the centre is 42.5% of your out of pockets. If you believe you are only getting 35% of your out if pockets paid, check your bill. This is not correct! FAO only hold 15% of YOUR HALF of the out of pocket costs. Not 15% of the whole bill. Check check check. If your centre are only crediting 35%, they ate not billing you correctly. You should be paying 57.5% of the bill after CCB NOT 65%. You can check what has been paid by fao using online services. For every week. Check this against your bill to make sure it adds up.

I'm sad that two years or more after this was introduced there is still do much confusion spread about the numbers. 35% should not be considered relevant to this discussion at all (sorry op. just trying to clear things up. I suspect that cc providers say 35% when they shouldn't)

As to your original post, OP. you are right. If you don't claim any CCB, you get the straight 50%. You will see this on your online services. Take a print out to your centre and make them fix it. They can do it. Many people do exactly this. It rests with the child care to correct this. Not fao. There is no need to hold anything back when you don't get CCB as it is impossible to get an overpayment of ccr. If you get CCB at end of year, it is cut in half for any ccr you received. But any too up of CCB will always be more than any debt of ccr so there is no need to hold any back.

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When they are paying CCR direct to your child care in a fortnightly/weekly/ monthly basis, they have nothing to hold back at end if financial year for underestimated estimates. I get mine quarterly, and I get the full 50% but don't get the last one till I lodge my tax return, so I understand this is how they allow for the ones paid direct to child are centres, paying 35% rather than 50%.

I don't get any Ccb or family tax a or b, but they have to have the same rule for everyone in case circumstances change..

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I understand where you're coming from. Sorry cannot help. We also don't receive FTBs and CCB and we've Bern using up the CCR in the first quarter of the FY but we never ask about the 15% cause we get it at the end of the FY so we consider that as nice savings towards the mortgage.

Maybe ask dept of human services?

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When they are paying CCR direct to your child care in a fortnightly/weekly/ monthly basis, they have nothing to hold back at end if financial year for underestimated estimates. I get mine quarterly, and I get the full 50% but don't get the last one till I lodge my tax return, so I understand this is how they allow for the ones paid direct to child are centres, paying 35% rather than 50%.

I don't get any Ccb or family tax a or b, but they have to have the same rule for everyone in case circumstances change..

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No, not true hun. Anyone opting to have ccr paid direct to themselves or the centre and claiming no CCB (income too high or by choice) gets the full 50% paid. The withholding only applies, either the reduced weekly payment or the final quarter, if there is payment of both CCB and ccr. If you receive quarterly payment and no CCB, your ccr is automatically paid late in July, just like any other quarter.

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I understand where you're coming from. Sorry cannot help. We also don't receive FTBs and CCB and we've Bern using up the CCR in the first quarter of the FY but we never ask about the 15% cause we get it at the end of the FY so we consider that as nice savings towards the mortgage.

Maybe ask dept of human services?

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You don't have 15% withheld if you are on quarterly payments....

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I understand where you're coming from. Sorry cannot help. We also don't receive FTBs and CCB and we've Bern using up the CCR in the first quarter of the FY but we never ask about the 15% cause we get it at the end of the FY so we consider that as nice savings towards the mortgage.

Maybe ask dept of human services?

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Thanks jaz, I have removed it now, however it doesn't bother me personally, I like the forced savings. but I was trying to explain it how friends who are in a similar situation to the OP explained it to me after they called Centrelink when they were confused about a differing amount.

I'm on fortnightly payments direct to the centre

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I'm on fortnightly payments direct to the centre

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Then you must also be in receipt of CCB, even if its a minimal amount. Withholding of ccr does not occurs if you receive a nil/zero rate of CCB

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Thanks jaz, I have removed it now, however it doesn't bother me personally, I like the forced savings. but I was trying to explain it how friends who are in a similar situation to the OP explained it to me after they called Centrelink when they were confused about a differing amount.

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My correction wasn't to you particularly. It was a generic thing cos it seems child care centres insist in saying 35% and it isn't the case and causes extreme confusion.

Jaz. I would be checking with your cc why you are using all your ccr in the first quarter if the year. You'd have to be paying something like 250 a day per child and using 5 days a week to use all 7500 in a quarter. Seems very steep. Most people get to about half way through the third quarter before it runs out if they are using full time care for a bub...

:-/ I'm actually unsure how much DS is on per day. Last time I think he's on $177/day but there was a rate increase.... so I might do that. Thanks!!

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:-/ I'm actually unsure how much DS is on per day. Last time I think he's on $177/day but there was a rate increase.... so I might do that. Thanks!!

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177 a day is crazy for a three year old! Crazy crazy crazy!

Supply and demand I guess. If you're in a busy part of the country with limited day care places they can sorta charge what they want cos people have no choice but to pay. Sigh

177 still seems very steep though. Definitely check.

I know....

He receives fantastic care but it is getting really hard..... and yes it is in the CBD.... looking for another care to move him now cause it is getting too much!!

I'm a director - I have NO control over anything centrelink related. My parents who have it set at 50% it comes through as 50%, if it's set at the lower percentage, it comes through at that. Unless the centre is using manual calculations and not software, she most likely has no control over this at all.

It's not always the centres fault and it does stink when you get parents angry at you for something beyond your control. Have you double checked with centrelink that it's right on their end?

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I'm sad that two years or more after this was introduced there is still do much confusion spread about the numbers. 35% should not be considered relevant to this discussion at all (sorry op. just trying to clear things up. I suspect that cc providers say 35% when they shouldn't)

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It is so incredibly hard to explain to people though BG - and I do understand it - when I try to explain that they withold 15% of your 50% incase of discrepncies, parents eyes glaze over. Gosh many parents find CCB hard to grasp because of the whole 100% doesn't mean 100% thing.....surely there must be a simpler way to do it all.

the witholding should never have been listed at 15% of entitlement - it should have been 7.5% of out of pockets. get things to add up to 100 and they kinda get it... kinda

the OP has said that her online services show that the payments have been made at the full 50% - so it's correct at FAO's end - which means it is then coming down to child care centre following it up through their helpdesk.

Yes OP, tell them to call CCMS HELPDESK and explain the problem, if CCMS can not help them, their software provider will be able to.
Our software provider can use remote assistance to navigate any issues we are having.

FWIW it's usually us wanting to say "It's not that hard!!!!!" to parents ;)
As ausgirl said most parents have very little understanding of the actual calculations.

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the witholding should never have been listed at 15% of entitlement - it should have been 7.5% of out of pockets. get things to add up to 100 and they kinda get it... kinda

the OP has said that her online services show that the payments have been made at the full 50% - so it's correct at FAO's end - which means it is then coming down to child care centre following it up through their helpdesk.

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I have dropped off everything I have at cc this morning.
Basically, my fees are $68 p/child p/day.

So for 2 kids in care for 2 days per week - full fees are $272. In theory, this should be divided by 50% to calculate the CCR (I don't claim the CCB). So fees for the week SHOULD be $136 for the 2 kids for 2 days. I was charged $176 which is the calculating CCR on 35%. It may not seem like a lot to look at it that way, but $40 a week is allot and it adds up. My online services shows that $68 per child has been paid to the centre ($34 x2days for each child = total $136 for 2 kids).

So if they still come back saying it's to prevent an overpayment (which BTW is impossible because I'm not claiming any CCB) and I have asked them to check with thier helpdesk, then where do I go to???

Their helpdesk should be able to fix it, as clearly it's right CL's end, there must be a fault in their software or something as simple as a box not ticked perhaps. If they don't (or won't) rectify it, then they should have a management phone number available up on the wall somewhere, you'll have to call them.

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So for 2 kids in care for 2 days per week - full fees are $272. In theory, this should be divided by 50% to calculate the CCR (I don't claim the CCB). So fees for the week SHOULD be $136 for the 2 kids for 2 days. I was charged $176 which is the calculating CCR on 35%. It may not seem like a lot to look at it that way, but $40 a week is allot and it adds up. My online services shows that $68 per child has been paid to the centre ($34 x2days for each child = total $136 for 2 kids).

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i would be questioning the billing in any case - even if they are (incorrectly) witholding an amount of CCR to be paid at tax time, you should only be paying 57.5% of the total out of pockets, NOT 65% - so the bill should only be $156.40. if they are taking 65% of the total out of pocket expenses, they are taking too much, and it needs to be escalated to their own management, and if they won't listen, a complaint can be lodge via FAO - if they are doing this to every customer, they are overcharging everyone in a big way and it needs to be looked at

have you actually seen the bill for the week though? what does it say in regards to the charging. this is only a very early bill isn't it? remembering that CCR is credited to the centre AFTER you use care, is it possible that you've not had a full week of CCR paid? did you use less care in the previous week, so less CCR payable from last week to credit against this weeks bill? keep in mind that CCR is always paid in arrears, so you pay the bill for week 1 - full bill, week 2, you will pay for week two charges LESS CCR for week 1. week 3 is week three charges less CCR for week 2, and so on and so forth. if in week 1 you used only 1 day of care per child, but week 2 you used 2, your CCR payable in week 2 (for week 1) would be a lesser amount (in your scenario, it would be 68 credited to week 2 bill for week 1 use, instead of 136)...

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the witholding should never have been listed at 15% of entitlement - it should have been 7.5% of out of pockets. get things to add up to 100 and they kinda get it... kinda

the OP has said that her online services show that the payments have been made at the full 50% - so it's correct at FAO's end - which means it is then coming down to child care centre following it up through their helpdesk.

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i would be questioning the billing in any case - even if they are (incorrectly) witholding an amount of CCR to be paid at tax time, you should only be paying 57.5% of the total out of pockets, NOT 65% - so the bill should only be $156.40. if they are taking 65% of the total out of pocket expenses, they are taking too much, and it needs to be escalated to their own management, and if they won't listen, a complaint can be lodge via FAO - if they are doing this to every customer, they are overcharging everyone in a big way and it needs to be looked at

have you actually seen the bill for the week though? what does it say in regards to the charging. this is only a very early bill isn't it? remembering that CCR is credited to the centre AFTER you use care, is it possible that you've not had a full week of CCR paid? did you use less care in the previous week, so less CCR payable from last week to credit against this weeks bill? keep in mind that CCR is always paid in arrears, so you pay the bill for week 1 - full bill, week 2, you will pay for week two charges LESS CCR for week 1. week 3 is week three charges less CCR for week 2, and so on and so forth. if in week 1 you used only 1 day of care per child, but week 2 you used 2, your CCR payable in week 2 (for week 1) would be a lesser amount (in your scenario, it would be 68 credited to week 2 bill for week 1 use, instead of 136)...

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Yes BG - This was the first bill for which I was expecting the Full bill (272 for the week), I'm wondering thought, because I paid the Full amount as the 2 wks in advance if that is why there is a reduction for the first bill (ie. there was no bond, just 2 wks in advance ITMS???)

In any case, the response I keep getting is, we have never had anyone pay like this so will need to work it out. My next line I guess if this doesn't get sorted will be FAO because it's the owner of the business i'm dealing with to try and get this sorted.

you'd need to see a copy of the bill to know exactly what they've done - it should have dates on it and what ccr has been applied. if they are saying it's a full week worth of ccr and that it's 35% discounted off, they are not billing correctly, and an investigation needs to be launched against them.

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the witholding should never have been listed at 15% of entitlement - it should have been 7.5% of out of pockets. get things to add up to 100 and they kinda get it... kinda

the OP has said that her online services show that the payments have been made at the full 50% - so it's correct at FAO's end - which means it is then coming down to child care centre following it up through their helpdesk.

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i would be questioning the billing in any case - even if they are (incorrectly) witholding an amount of CCR to be paid at tax time, you should only be paying 57.5% of the total out of pockets, NOT 65% - so the bill should only be $156.40. if they are taking 65% of the total out of pocket expenses, they are taking too much, and it needs to be escalated to their own management, and if they won't listen, a complaint can be lodge via FAO - if they are doing this to every customer, they are overcharging everyone in a big way and it needs to be looked at

have you actually seen the bill for the week though? what does it say in regards to the charging. this is only a very early bill isn't it? remembering that CCR is credited to the centre AFTER you use care, is it possible that you've not had a full week of CCR paid? did you use less care in the previous week, so less CCR payable from last week to credit against this weeks bill? keep in mind that CCR is always paid in arrears, so you pay the bill for week 1 - full bill, week 2, you will pay for week two charges LESS CCR for week 1. week 3 is week three charges less CCR for week 2, and so on and so forth. if in week 1 you used only 1 day of care per child, but week 2 you used 2, your CCR payable in week 2 (for week 1) would be a lesser amount (in your scenario, it would be 68 credited to week 2 bill for week 1 use, instead of 136)...

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you'd need to see a copy of the bill to know exactly what they've done - it should have dates on it and what ccr has been applied. if they are saying it's a full week worth of ccr and that it's 35% discounted off, they are not billing correctly, and an investigation needs to be launched against them.

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I've seen the bill and that's why i questioned it. because no where does it say on there where CCR has been calculated. It's only through my own caclulations (and VERY careful bugeting) did i pick up they over charge. I'm in the processing of working through with the ccc to try and sort it but if it doesn't get sorted I still have to keep paying the higher amount i'll be taking it further. Yes - i'll get it back at the end of the tax year. But it's still $40 a week i'm out of pocket on an already tight budget.

Thanks for all your help BG. x

but that's the thing hun - you WON'T get $40 a week back at tax time - FAO are paying the child care the full 50% - there is nothing being held back to pay at tax time. all that's happening is that you are paying more each week to the child care, and essentially getting screwed.


as is every other parent at the centre if they are charging 65% of the out of pockets for every bill, not 57.5% as they should be. at tax time, those parents are only going to get 7.5% of their out of pockets paid, not 15% - so they are going to lose out, and the child care will keep pocketing the extra...