Breech Baby at 34 weeks

and already they are offering a C section...

Ok, so I know it's not me. But yesterday I took SIL for her hosp appt. with the Dr this time.

He has changed her dates by 2 weeks according to her 20 week scan, bringing her to 34 weeks now instead of 32. So anyway, when he was checking bubs position he couldn't find his head. He got out the portable ultra sound and found out bub was breech, he's bum first. He then got his stuff together and said he had to go talk to his boss to find out what her options were. WT!!

He comes back, draws a pic of bubs position and says you have 3 options, a vaginal breach birth, a c section and a ECV. Shocked the hell out of me that he offered the vag birth, and yep I was right, those words may have escaped his lips but at the end of the day it doesn't seem like an option at all.

What surpised me was that he said come back next week at 35 weeks and if bub hasn't turned we'll book the c section. They will do it at 38 weeks. So now the pressure is on SIL. I have told her to decide what she wants to do. Get it clear in her head, read and absorb as much as possible. She doesn't want a c section so she needs to be prepared for a fight.

He has also booked her in for a scan next Tuesday to check bubs posi, then she has her midwifes appt, then after that she is trying an ECV. Really hoping bub moves for her before then. What a stupid Dr though, stressing her so much when she still has a good 6 weeks to go.

I got her to book in for accupuncture for Friday and some moxibustion. Hopefully this will get the bub moving, his bum isn't set into her pelvis yet so fingers crossed.

I have also suggested to SIL that instead of agreeing to their C section date that she tells them that she wants to wait to go into labour herself. This way bub is ready and there is no risk of them taking out what could potentionally be a 36 week baby.

Oh Yeah, the reason for booking the c section so early. Because dates fill up fast !!!

OMG.. That is ridiculous..... I am pretty sure that babies can turn just about up till the last minute cant they.... and as for booking up fast.. what happens in an emercency c-sect is needed... "um sorry we are booked up, can you hold on for a week or 2.. WTF!!!!!"

Can you get a copy of Breech Birth: Woman Wise by Maggie Banks? Its very good and might give her confidence. He may have all these conditions for her though, like an episiotomy (which maggie banks says is not required), epidural, continuous monitoring etc as per the RCOG website. But I know for a fact not all Obs even do that ;) If she is confused, tell her to say no, I need more time to think. Nothing like a rushed decision. If they put the pressure on about spaces filling up, then tell them it will just have to be an emergency caesarean then LOL.

Can she also book a one on one with a Calmbirth Professional? They have great success rates with hypnobirth/calmbirth and turning.

Kelly, she is going in as a public patient so not like she can hugely bargain with her OB. I told her that if the Dr doesn't want to do what she wants that i's not too late to change hospitals. LOL.

Yeah I had thought that they might go really strrict on how she will have to birth. I have been told that the best way to birth a breech in on all fours. Can't really do that with an epidural now, can you.

Well, there's the thing. It's not like bub is going to pop out in 5 seconds flat, if labour starts and she decides she wants the caesarean then so be it. Dr was giving her horror stories of breech babies coming out and compressing cords if they come feet first. I do understand this is a possibility with a footling breech, but this is a complete breech bub. His butt is coming first. Hopefully he turns and all of this stress will be for nothing.

Where would we get a copy of that book Kel, and would it be here in time ??

Bub will probably turn. This is her first right? They often don't turn till late in the pgcy. Tell her not to stress, maybe start getting her into positions to encourage bubs to turn (on hands and knees leaning forward is a good one I've been told) and tell her it's her choice. She doesn't want to look back and think "if only" I'd given bub more time, he/she might have turned and come all by it'self. She won't know what her body is capable of if she doesn't try and a womans body usually does the right thing and bubs will too.... Tell her to hold out if that's what she wants. Keep pushing the dates back, tell them she will come back in a weeks time and will decide then, and keep doing that till the actual due date (or beyond, whenever she feels there is no more time to wait, or Labour happens!). Goodluck and she is one lucky woman to have you supporting her Trish! She knows what she wants, she should hold out as long as possible to give herself every chance of achieving that goal! They cannot force a C/S, they can only try to scare her into it. The more knowledge she has, the less likely it is that they will be able to scare her into it. Good on you for being her advocate Trish!

Lots of midwives have them, maybe ring a few in NSW or try a library? You can always get one from Amazon, I find them to be quite fast, just choose a reputable seller. Or try Capers Bookstore.

A-ha! $38.95 on capers on their homepage even!

Thanks a heap for that Kelly. I will let her know :)

I know the date thing for bookimg c-sections are right they do get booked in fast. I had mine booked in from 24wks and when i asked to change it at 33wks it was all booked out. If a emerg comes in the elective is pushed back.

Maybe your SIL can have the date booked in anyway and in the meantime get as much information as she can to have the baby vag.

I think its a mental thing too, to book it in. Easier to succumb to it if you do. I think she shouldn't, because then she is going to be in the frame of mind that she doesn't need/want one. Inconvenience to elective caesars is the doctor's fault, not the woman. She SHOULD be allowed a breech vaginal birth.

I'm with you on that one Kelly. I think if you know that it's there for backup your more likely to succumb to the idea of it.

Like if Mark were to leave the automatic car at home and the manual I know I'd jump in and drive the auto. It's less stress for me. I don't do manual too well.

Not that I'm saying the caesar is less stress but it's not as hard a fight.

There i still time for her baby to get into the correct position.
One trick I use for breech babies is to get mum to rest on elbows and knees for 20 mins each day. She can do this on the bed, floor, lounge, anywhere that is comfy.
Other things she could try is to shine a bright torch on the lower part of your tummy also get a radio and put it low down on your tummy with music playing or get DP to put his head down there and talk to the baby
You could also try acupuncture/pressure.

There is a good chance bubs will, but they like to caeser 38w, bub often turns just before birth. Like I have said before, I was breech until 8 days post-dates, born 9 days post-dates. Prob is, if baby stays breech you have less time to read up later. So I think $40 is a good investment/insurance policy :)

My friend's baby was breech and the public hosp said there was no way they would let her have a vaginal birth. She would have to go to Monash if she even wanted to try. She tried various positions to turn the baby but was unsuccessful. They let her labour for 17 hrs before doing an emergency C/S because her doctor wasn't available. I have heard great things about acupuncture to turn breech babies, good luck to your SIL Trish - she is lucky to have your support.

My friend's baby (well twin 1) was breech so the booked her in for a c/s. When she got there on the day, they checked again and the baby had turned, so they let her go home & she ended up having the twins vaginally.

Thats fantastic Rachael. Suprised they still didn't push the c section for the twins.

Good on her :)

That's crazy! My son was breech until 32 weeks and my OB wasn't concerned about that at ALL. He turned as most of them do.
I hope your SIL has the gumption to dig in for a fight....that's really disgraceful that they're writing her off like that already :( All the best to her.

Hi everyone,

Im Trish's SIL, just thought i would say a big thanks for all the support and kind words. I know with Trish behind me i will be able to make the right decision, if it comes to that(*fingers crossed* it doesnt).

Hoping bubs will turn *fingers and toes crossed*

Simone xxx

good luck Hun. lachaln turned at 37 weeks...
so it can happen dont give up!!!!!!
your lucky you got Trish there.
xoxoxoxox

I think it was around 34 weeks that Tallon was still breech. And my next visit we were to discuss c/s. I was terrified!

Anyway - I did the head down bum up thing (but not very well.. .and couldn't stay like that long enough LOL) but what did the trick was DH in a firm voice telling him to turn around! LOL! He spoke to the very bottom of the belly, a couple of nights (we did the torch thing too) and next ob visit - he had turned! yay!

Plenty of time to turn, but yeah - the OB was ready to book me in. I discussed it with him, about going into labour first, but he said scheduled c/s is safer than emergency. Not sure why? probably like any other surgery, you can fast etc? So yeah - I would have had a fight on my hands had Tallon not turned.

Yes, its great. she had the twins at the Royal Womens in Melb, and they were find for her to have a VB, as long as the first twin was head down. It was her second pg though, and she is a very assertive person (and nurse) so she'd have put up pretty good arguments to get the birth she wanted.

I think it depends on the hospital as I live rural with a crappy hospital and Jasmine was breech for a while and they said that if she didn't turn I'd either have a c/s or go to another hospital, we live hours away from another hossie though. I'm betting bub will turn though. Most cases they do.

Does she live in Sydney Trish??You;d think any Sydney hossie would let her deliver a breech bub!!

Kirsty, yup we live in Sydney. She is going as a public patient though so isn't under a private OB.

I guess at the end of the day, she has to want it bad enough to push hard enough for it. I can only make suggestions, like the accupuncture and positioning's, it's up to Simone to do what she wants with them.

Heres hoping Fletch!

Well im going to try everything to gets bubs to move down there, but if he doesnt then ill have to make the decision. Im not to worried about the pain factor, any birth hurts right!? Its only bubs thats worries me, i just want the best thing for him.
I have been reading up on vaginal breech births, some good some not so good. Then theres the c-section, which im not to keen on being cut open, but if its better for bubs then i will do it.

But i guess its all in his court right now ;),

Simone

Simone, I suggest getting on hands and knees and tilting forward....it really does help turn bubs!

I have tried just about everything to turn mine, stubborn little so and so.. it came down to the position of the legs and how long bub has been in breech posy with mine. The legs are straight which means it is alot harder to somersault and also bub has been bum down for months DOH!

I was talking to a friend of mine today, who told me that she had one of her children vaginally, and the baby was a complete breech. She said it didn't seem quite as painful as a normal vag (forget the term) as the bum is softer than the head. I think she also said that they didn't realise until the birth that it was a breech baby, but the doctor let her go ahead.
I hope you manage to get the baby to turn for you though.

Good luck Netty, there is still hope!
Netix- yes i read that the bum is much softer than the head, im just scared about the horror stories where the feet come out one at a time and the doc was saying there is a chance bubs can get stuck aswell!

Look, I'd be like you Shorty, but I'd be terrified that if something went wrong, that I would always blame myself. What i'm trying to say is whatever decision you make, make sure it's YOUR decision, and know that you made it with the best intention and information you had at your disposal.
I think the point above about the hospital making one lady labour for 17 hours before they would do an emergency c/s is a valid one, and take that into consideration. Also, consider getting an ob now (it's NOT too late just lots of ringing around) check out what doctors work at what hospitals so if you can't go private you can at least maybe have a doctor that is sympathetic to your cause. Can a public hospital tell you how you can and can't birth?? If so, I'll never go public as I was considering it for next time!
Anyway, good luck with your bubby, and we will all wait with bated breath to read the announcment from Trish that your bubby arrived naturally, and and healthy!

Good luck, Shorty. Hopefully he'll turn and all of this worry will have been for nothing. You're lucky to have such a great SIL, though, that knows what shes on about. I know that Trish wants the best for you and your baby, and just wants the best possible outcome for her little nephew.

Nickel, I think when it comes to anything to do with our babies we only want what is best for them, and of course we always blame ourselves if anything happens to them. That even includes a skinned knee.

If this seems that I am pushing what I want onto Simone then you are wrong. I truely only want what is best for her and why on Earth would I want to put my nephew at risk.

I want Simone to make an informed decision, with all of the info that I can share with her and that she can find. Not just the stuff the hospital wants to tell her, and all of the scare tactics they use. There are also positive stories out there, it's just a shame Dr's fail to share those ones.

Having a c section doesn't only change Simone's birth this time, it changes every other birth she has, meaning that they will see as a high risk patient, no birth centre will touch her. She will have to have monitored labours and birth's. What a shame if it has to come to that.

Still if that is what is seriously required, or infact that is what Simone wants then I will back her 120%. Afterall, that is what friends and family are supposed to do.

Natalie, thanks for that hun. You are totally right, I only want what is best for all involved.

Thank you nickel, i understand completely where you are coming from. I would never be able to forgive myself if something happened to this baby, so im going to try my hardest to be well informed, when and if i have to make the decision.
Unfortunately im not covered by private health care and i don't work atm so it would be impossible to get my own ob. As we are only relying on DP's income and the help of MIL and FIL.
As for the public hospital, i think in some ways they can very much push you into doing it 'their' way. As Trish said, i was offered a Vaginal breech birth, but the offer was pushed aside very quickly. I would also have to find a doctor who would deliver my baby that way, as most don't do this anymore.

Thank you for your kind words,

Simone

Oh and thanks Natalie, i know Trish is a great SIL.

Breech birth (esp. frank breech) is safe with the right care provider - often where it's gone wrong is with an inexperienced care provider, who takes the same 'managed' approach as a normal vaginal birth, but it should be more hands off.

The width of the hips is about the same as the head, so no diff there with size... but if I was offered breech birth with an inexperienced carer (i.e. none or little breech birth exp.) I would go elsewhere.

Kelly I have heard of quiet a few midwives who actually prefer you to birth in water with a breech as the water actually supports the baby, leaving bub hands free.

Hopefully this acupuncture works this afternoon and none of this is needed anyway. Fingers crossed.

Hope the accupuncture went well today Simone :)

Thanks Nat. Bub did start to move alittle while we were there but we don't think he has turned yet.

Bonus I got a session of accupuncture too for my migraines for free :D

oh trish! I never meant that you were pushing anything on your SIL. I'm so sorry if you got that impression. I think what you are doing for Shorty is awesome, to have someone who cares for you, and will take this journey with you at a time when Shorty is emotional and you are able to take a step back and look at the facts and support her through is such a blessing for her. To find out all this info for her, when her brain is probably turning to mush is such a great thing to do for someone. I meant, don't let the doctor or hospital push anything on her (not you!) so it's her decision.
It's so true what you said about C/s affecting all your other births, I never knew that until I found bellybelly.
And you've had experience with a C/s so you are the best support ever, you really know what you are talking about. Plus if waterbirth is the way to go, you also have practical experience there. You go girl!
(hope I didn't cause you too much angst at a time that is probably very angsty as it is)
BTW, is that a new pic of Tehya? She is SO cute.

LOL Sorry Nickel, again a problem with written word hey :)

Unfortunately for Simone the hosp she is going to does not support waterbirths. What a shame for her.

Hoping that Simone is informed enough to make a decision she is happy with. After our talk this afternoon it would seem that she is on the way to it :) Don't worry I won't let anyone push anything unwanted onto Simone. They will hear me yelling at them.

Yup new pic of Tehya. Little feral head with her crazy morning hair.

Gorgeous pic of Ruby too. She's such a little sweety. Wow I can't believe she is 7 months old already. Goes fast hey.

Just an update on me and bubs.....

He has been a very good boy and he turned for me, YAY!!!!! Unfortunately he isn't 'engaged' as yet, but ill be doing heaps of the pelvic tilt exercises and walking to help get him down, and STAY down...

Heres hoping he does;)

Simone xxx

Simone thats great!