Is Immunization for baby safe?

I have always thought immunization was essential and worthwhile, however, my friend who recently gave birth was told by one of the midwives that the Hep B immunization has been linked to the development of autism in some children - something about levels of mercury. She went ahead and had the shots anyway, but the idea is still niggling at her. Is there any scientific/concrete evidence to support this "theory"? I would feel more at ease if my baby was immunized but not if there was risk of developing a condition like autism.

There is heaps of information on the internet that you can research for yourself and find out what is the best course of action for you and your baby. Ive found so much but you really do have to sift through the bias...for and against. I have found that still many studies are discredited despite all the facts leading to a certain conclusion but at least you can be armed with knowledge..knowledge is power!

Jo

just moving to the baby and toddler forum

This isnt answering your question regarding autism, but Jesse is immunised and i wouldnt hesitate with any future children.. for 2 reasons that i read in M&B and totally agree on..
1. giving them the needles they are less likely to catch that desease if there are any cases in the community,
and 2. If enough people are immunised the infection can no longer be spread, so the disease will die out altogether. This is why smallpox has been eliminated.

This is another one of those personal choice subjest though..

My daughter is autisistic as a direct result from an immunisation, but it wasn't the hep b. There are a few threads on here with lots and lots of heated posts if you'd like to waft through them. here is a link but I can't find the monster one - maybe one of the mods can help out.

Whatever you decide I would definitely not give the baby the hep b straight after birth unless you are in a high risk environment. Its unnecessary and such a shock to the baby's system when its little body is experiencing so many others.

Its not just the mercury, which has been reduced to almost non existent in Australian Childrens vaccines. Antifreeze, formaldehyde, phenol, human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue and lots of other yuckies are in most vaccines we give our kids. Aluminium is also another one and some studies have established a link between aluminium and Alzheimers disease.

Many sites will scaremonger and many others will say there is no risk at all. As Jo said, sort through it so you can make an informed decision on whats best for your child.

I agree it is going to have to be a personal choice.

For me, I found the risk of a side effect from the immunisation was a lot lower than the effects bub would endure if she caught any of the actual diseases.

Whooping cough went through work a few years ago, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, let alone a young baby, so for me I had to immunise my DD as I didn't want to see her in that state.

DD #1's now 9 and is a "perfect" child (apart from the whingeing, arguing, etc etc...!) with no ill effects.

Following on from what Kell said, if people weren't immunised, some of those horror diseases out there would still be around in full force. I met a woman who had suffered polio as a child and she had no use of her right arm. NICE. I'm so glad you never hear of cases like that these days.

Of course some children who are immunised do have side affects, and they're not nice. That's why you need to ensure you have all of the facts before you make a decision either way so you can weigh up the risks.

Whilst I don't totally agree with it, my SIL chose to "naturally" immunise her son through a naturopath. I'm not sure of what was involved etc though.

So if you were going to give a few "select" vaccinations, which ones would you give? polio? Menigoccocal? and when should they be given? 6mths? 3yrs? I'm happy to forego the Hep B straight away, surely there is a time when the baby is old enough to have this vaccination or any other vaccination and it not triggering autism? Upto how old is a child susceptible to developing autism from a vaccination?

You can give them if and when you like. If I were to vaccinate I would space them right out, never give the MMR in one go, and go naturopathic or homeopathic where possible.

Also when you do your research, check who sponsored or conducted the testing. Vaccines are big business.

You need to weigh up the perceived risk of possible side effects from immunisation (that occur in a tiny percentage of cases) against the possible risks of leaving your child unimmunised against potentially DEADLY diseases.

I vaccinate my children because I know a lot of other ppl do not, I'm not prepared to risk my child getting those diseases that are becoming more statistically prevalent (in Australia we were very close about five years ago to having another measles epidemic).

I saw a show a while back with a little girl who got chickenpox but hadn't been vaccinated and the dose she got was so severe she almost died. She had it inside her body (her throat etc.) as well as the usual outside...but REALLY bad. Her mother was horrified and got the vaccinations done after.

I spoke to the midwife about the risks (cos I do know someone who is disabled due to vaccination) and she asked how old he was (he's in his late 20's) and she said that they have actually changed what used to be the most common causes for this from the vaccinations now so the risk of a severe reaction is even LESS than it used to be. I battled a bit over to get Oskar done or not, but I came to the conclusion that the risk is so small compared to a higher possibility of getting something (measles/chickenpox etc.) and having such a severe dose of it that he could die.

Re: the Hep B..apparently it is really easy to contract as it's spread as easily as a child playing with a toy and the next child putting it in their mouth.

Caro...our book here is red not purple, so Lilli's may be a different colour.

Each to their own, but I am big believer in immunisation. Both of mine are fully immunised. DD1 chose to have chicken pox immun at 8 because she didn't like the thought of chicken pox! All others have been my choice.
I understand if someone's child has autism they may link it to immunisation, but for me it's a bit like childbirth, there is always a risk, just depends on the odds and what you choose to do. I would hate myself to the ends of the earth if my child got autism and it was linked to immunisation, but I would hate myself the same if my child got a disease that I could've avoided.
xoxoxo
Ps sorry, i am not saying it's the parents fault or someone should hate themselves for something out of their control. Don't mean to offend anyone, just my thoughts. xoxo

Milo is up to date with his immunistaions.

However, he did not have his hep b or vit k on the same day he was born, not on the same days as each other, I think one was on day 2 and the other day 3 or 4.

I agonised over the MMR and tried a lot of places to see if I could get it broken up into seperate vaccines (even tried the RCH here in Melb) but with no luck. In the end I decided that if he couldn't have them seperately that I would give him the combined vaccine.

There is a common misconception that being vaccinated prevents you from getting the illness. This is not always the case, but is does mean that your body can recognise the virus and produce the correct antibodies faster so the infection will be milder.

When I was a kid, chicken pox did the usual round through the school. My brother and I caught it and got the rash, a few days off school and were fine. A family aquaintance didn't have her daughter vaccinated and she spent two weeks in ICU after becoming infected.

It is a personal decision, but I can't take the risk and my baby will be vaccinated.

I am another pro-vaccination mother. I would rather deal with the minute chance that Jett would have issues with a vaccination than a high chance he would catch any one of the numerous diseases they are immunised against and be severely incapacitated or even die.

That said, Jett has a bad reaction to his 4mth vaccinations but I am still pushing ahead with them. I did think abut delaying them a bit if he had another reaction at his 6mth ones but he was a-ok.

The practice nurse who did Jett's vaccinations told me an interesting fact about why they insist on putting the needles in their legs and NOT their bottom like we all had. Apparently there is a nerve attached to the spinal cord that runs through your bottom and in a baby/small child it is not properly protected like it is when your older and many a child had ill effects from vaccinations because the needles hit this nerve and cause damage. That may be where all the anti-vaccination information has stemmed from since we were kids!

ETA - Tanya - I dont think there is any proof that any case of autism was 'caused' by vaccinations as opposed to being exaccerbated by having a child vaccinated. I truly believe that if something like that occurs in a child its probably been there from birth and just been brought to attention by a trigger, whatever it may be.

Tanby -
It is generally around the 9month to 1year mark that children who are autistic start to show symptoms which is probably what prompted your doctor to comment on it. I believe that is one of the reasons the MMR gets so much attention - because symptoms of autism arise around the same time as that particular immunization.
Both of my parents, my step-mother, and a very good friend are all registered nurses, plus another friend is a lab technician and her husband is a GP so I am VERY pro immunization. So much so that DH and I enrolled DS in an immunization study at the childrens hospital. As a parent I take risks every day with the decisions I make for DS - some are more risky than others - I admit - but I feel that the risks of the immunizations are much smaller then the risks of the diseases themselves. Just my personal opinion...

There are two types of autism - one is apparent from birth and the other is regressive. In regressive autistics the baby develops normally and then all of a sudden loses the speech, eye contact etc that they already had.

Anna, I agree and have posted previously regarding predisposition in kids who are affected by immunisation, but how do we know which baby will be affected and which won't. I have 7 kids, all except 1 immunised to some extent with Layla being the only one who had a reaction.

The incidence of autism used to be 1 in 10000 - its now around 1 in 150. The rise directly corresponds with the introduction of a heavier vaccine schedule over the last 20 years or so. We will see it decline again with the removal of most of the mercury from the vaccines, but it will still be high.

For those that say the risk is small, I agree and respect your decision to immunise - like I said my kids were immunised before it changed our lives - BUT it really makes me angry when people say that there's no connection. Tell that to the thousands of parents who have photographic and video evidence of a normal, socially interactive child who changed into a zombie within hours of having a vaccine, or who screams in pain for hours on end. I know of 8 yr old kids that this has happened to. Please don't dismiss out of hand what you don't understand.

Very well said Natalie.

Ashlea is immunsied, to be honest I never gave it a second thought. Knowing now what I know and having heard everything about immunisations i'm sure i'd still go through with them if i was to have a second child, but this time with more knowledge.
I never thought to question the schedule, or the immunisations themselves. To me that was how it was and therefore you do it. Ash is 5 now and doesn't have anymore needles til much later on, but now i'm more worried about my 1 year old nephew everytime he's had his needles.
I would consider the idea of asking for the immunisations spaced out more and in seperate dosed if there was to be a 'next time' though.

Natalie, I totally agree with you. You have your proof, you live with her everyday. And as much as I know you love Layla, I am sure if you could have that day over you sure wouldn't have went.

I chose not to give Tehya her hep b at birth nor the viatmin k shot. I felt that she did not need nor require them.

No I hadn't looked much further into the immunisation schedule and I feel rather foolish for it. I, like many others just did what I was told needed to be done. I questioned so many things to make sure that Tehya had a good and safe birth, the same as I will do for this baby. I am sorry though, that I was ignorant in following up any further information regarding immunising my children.

You completely have my support, love and back up regarding any of this. I am in total agreeance with you. It's not just because of our friendship either. It is because of my firm believe in the link to autism from immunisation.

Of course no-one would want that Caro, but the fact remains the risk is there and parents need to be informed of it. People telling their story doesn't result in scaremongering, it leads to the ability to weigh up the pros and cons and make an informed choice. Lies and exaggeration result in scaremongering.

Caro, I certainly wasn't saying that all Autism is directly linked to immunisation, just that there is a link there and it needs to be pointed out. As with anything there are pro's and con's to be alerted to.

An informed decision is the best kind to make.

I agree completely Trish. Thank you so much for your support and kindness.

Hello there, mod hat firmly on... lets keep this discussion just that thanks. You are doing well so far, but just a gentle reminder ;).

Mother hat on... as a personal choice made by my husband & I we are not getting Jovie fully vaccinated and surely not the MMR vaccine. Matilda was able to have the vaccine split because someone ordered it from overseas & decided not to use it once it arrived in Australia. But after weighing the risks any more vaccinations will be done at later dates if done at all.

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There is a common misconception that being vaccinated prevents you from getting the illness. This is not always the case, but is does mean that your body can recognise the virus and produce the correct antibodies faster so the infection will be milder.

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This is not necessarily true either. I was immunised as well as both of my sisters at the time & we all got chicken pox. My older sister was 7 and had a mild dose, my younger sister was just over 1 and had a mild dose also. I was 5 and had a very very severe case in that I was very very ill & it took me years to recover. I lost a ridiculous amount of weight & it was only in my 20s that I was able to start regaining weight & it is believed to be a direct result of the chicken pox I had at five.

Having said all that I have decided to vaccinate my children. I know how damaging a severe reaction can be when immunisation has been done, so I really wouldn't like to see what it would be like without IYKWIM.


ETA: Just like to add that this is my decision & I don't object to any person deciding not to immunise for their own reasons. That's the joy of free will, we get to decide what we do or don't want to do :)

Hi Natalie,

I'm new to this forum, sorry to have to ask you this (u mentioned that u have told ur story several times) but which shot did you think caused the autism in your daughter? and do you believe it was the mercury (albeit small levels?)?

Hello Lilli, Layla was hospitalised the day after her Hep B, polio and Pedvax HIB which were her 4 month vaccines that she had a little late. It was very likely the mercury as this was 2002 and there were still lots of 'hot' batches floating around. Its so hard to say though. She also has a rare metabolic disorder called hyperprolinemia but her specialists don't know whether she was born with it or if it was a result of her vaccines. They are sure though that the vaccine is what did the damage.

Even without the mercury vaccines can be dangerous - especially the MMR. Its often the straw that breaks the camels back so to speak because its such a huge shock to the system, and thats why it has such a bad name. Thre is no benefit of giving them in one dose - its cost cutting and expediency and those are ridiculous reasons to risk our kids health,

The MMR is a 12 month old vaccination. To have it in separate amounts you have to a) have a compliant GP who recognises your wishes and b) $$ to do so. I was so lucky as our GP wasn't one that was compliant but just happened to have someone's vaccination in the practice. Our GP told me it was rubbish and to "Get over it" but phoned me later to say that someone who order the vaccine from overseas had decided against having the separate vaccinations and I could have it if I paid for it. We decided the $$ was worth the safer option at that time & took it.

Hi Tanya sweety - love Lucas cloth nappy ;)

Um, 12 months and theres a booster at 4 yrs I think. You would have to order it in. They don't routinely offer it. It should just be given separately and spaced out and we'd see a lot less problems.

ETA I was pondering and writing Christy when you posted, lol.

LOL great minds hey Nat?

Don't be scared hun. Just get advice from a GP that you have faith in and trust. Thats very important so you can feel confident about your decision. Christy will be able to tell you more about spacing it out because I'm not sure. Try not to let it stress you out though - there's plenty of time to get your head around it. *Hugs*

LOL @ great minds Christy ;)

Actually, the vaccination schedules differ from one state to the next, and the 4yo MMR is standard in Victoria.

As I said, I agonised over this decision. The research (aside from the mercury issue) that I read indicated a problem from combining vaccines not only in the same shot (like MMR) but the seperate shots on the same day - we have MMR and 2 other vaccinatins all at once at 12 months.

This is a hot topic and can be found in a number of places within BB alone, reading through the post can give you a varied opinion about immunizations. The following is my personal view and is in no way a slur on anyone for the choices they make in the best interests of their children, I will say now, each to their own, on this one.

I have had all of my children immunized as I too believe the risks of complications arising from the immunizations are much smaller then the risks of the diseases themselves. Personally and I reiterate PERSONALLY I could never forgive myself if I didn't do my bit to prevent a disease and my child got it and either got very sick or died or passed it along to another child. Personally I believe that the link between Immunizations and Autism have been greatly overdramatized and understudied, that and or maybe over the past 20-30 years Dr have gotten better at diagnosing even the mildest forms of any disease due to advances in technology and awareness. Just my opinion.:)

Kate, yes that is my point, actually for alot of things not just immunization. There are alot of people out there who want to be published, who want to do their thesis and get their Docorate or Masters and they have to choose a reseach topic so they say Oh I know I will be the first person to prove that this equals that and is congruently related to such and such. So before they have started their reseach they already are biased one way or the other and they conduct research and alter, ignore information that contradicts the point they are trying to make. They graduate, get some more letter's after their name, get published and some poor lay person comes along and is trying to get all the facts to make a decision and tells themselves well this person is a Dr with a lot of letters after their name so they must know what they are talking about O(hell I have letter's after my name and at the end of the year I'll have even more). The internet is to blame for alot of it since it is so easy to access information or misinformation these days and it is so simple to make an inviting website that looks really professional to sell your point. We as parents, nay citizens rely on Medical researchers to be non biased so that we can see the fact for what they are not for what someone doctored to graduate and or be published. I don't know maybe I'm just more cynical then most??