Why am I not happy?

After trying for so long to have a baby, I would have thought that I would be spending these 9 months in a state of total happiness...so why am I not coping?

It seems that i still have all of the same sadness and frustration and anger that i had when i was TTC for all those years. I still feel the same way when i hear of other's who fell pg easily - and when i see pregnant women in town. It's crazy.

No-one knows i have lost a twin except DH, and he refuses to discuss it - he says it's all for the best. He is right, but it doesn't mean i can stop feeling so sad at the loss. And not ever 'miscarrying' is like it never happened at all. I can't claim to feel anything like those who actually lost a baby - i know my physical and emotional pain is nothing compared to theirs - that's why i hate myself everytime i feel this way.

I am more than half way through this pregnancy, and i have bought nothing at all for the baby. Nothing. No cot, or buggy or anything. Not even any cute clothes. I haven't even bought any maternity clothes - I still struggle everyday to fit my normal clothes (I have some bigger sizes from years ago). I tried on some maternity jeans and nearly cried and had to leave the store.

I know am so lucky to be pg...why can't i see it and feel it myself??

Thanks for reading and please don't judge me for writing this - I know that this isn't right...but i'm not sure what to do to get over it.
Jo

Jo :hug:
I am there with you and those feeling sometimes. Someone asked me their other day if I wanted to borrow their baby books, and I said "huh baby books, do I need baby books"? and had to stop and think for a minute that I was actually going to have a baby, and would have to deal with it. I seem to be living in some form of denial.
My TTC was not as long and hard as yours, but it had it ups and downs.
I cant really offer any suggestions to our issues, but I wanted you to know that you are not totally alone in feeling like this.
xo

Well sometime I think after all that time TTC we forget what its like to be normal iykwim its like we are so used to the dissapointment of another AF that when we do get PG we dont know how to be happy you keep say this isnt happening to me. I cant really be having a baby. so we almost block it out just incase we get dissapointed again. But its ok to be happy you will get that long awaited baby soon but you are also aloud to grive for the one you lost. dont be so hard on yourself:hugs:

God hun I don't judge you for a second. Firstly infertility changes you and stays with you. It doesn't go away because you're pg. I will be the first to say that I still find it hard to see pg women, or hear about how someone fell pg easily, or even let go of the fact that it took me so many years and so many cycles to fall pg. What we felt before falling pg doesn't just evaporate into nothingness.

And losing one of your twins is devastating, even if you feel like you're not allowed to grieve because you have to feel grateful for the survival of the other twin. But our minds don't work like that. Not grieving is like pretending your angel never existed, and how do you, as a mother, do that? Don't worry about how hard others have had it, focus on you and your feelings. You deal with your needs and your grief. You will have to in order to get closure and be there for your other baby.

As for not buying stuff for you or your baby, this too is normal for LTTTCers. I got big very fast, so eventually had to move into maternity clothes, but I was constantly fearful of being 'too optimistic', like that was a crime that would make the whole house of cards come tumbling down. I still feel like that now sometimes, even though Charlie is 20 months old. Like I've gotten so used to things being difficult and painful that I expect that that's what I deserve, and cannot allow myself to relax and enjoy it.

I don't know if I'm even hitting the mark with anything I've said, or I'm way off, Jo, but wanted you to know that we LTers always thinkg that the light at the end of the tunnel is falling pg, when in truth it is just another world where everything is distorted and scary. We're too scared to admit it that we're not completely grateful and utterly ecstatic 100% of the time. But the journey on this side of the fence is hard too! And it's okay to say you're having a hard time with it.

Hugest of :hug:to you, you beautiful woman.

Huge hugs hun.

Don't think for one second that anyone will judge you. I can't say that I have been in the same situation as you but I am sure that after many years of TTC and having all the feelings that you described (anger, frustration and sadness) that they will not go away instantly. With you also losing a twin I am sure that those feelings are hanging around even more due to your loss. Don't hate yourself for feeling sad about your loss. It hurts all the same for everyone and you need to be able to let it all out. It sounds like your DH maybe struggling with it too which is maybe why he is not wanting to discuss it. Do you think that if you were to speak to someone, not necessarily family but someone maybe like a counsellor or a close friend who you trust. I think that getting all of your feelings out in the open will be a big release for you. I'm sure it won't take away the pain but I think it would lift a big weight off your shoulders.

Do you think that maybe you are not wanting to buy maternity clothes or baby things because you are scared of losing your precious bub? I think you really need to talk to someone hun and even your Dr would be a great start to sorting out your feelings and seeing if there is anything they can do to help you get through this.

You will get there hun and in a few short months you will have this amazing bundle in your arms that you have been wanting for so long. Not sure if any of this will help but just know that we are all here for you, you don't have to feel alone :hug:

Thank you all.
You are right sushee, i do really feel very grateful for having one little one survive, very grateful. But i would tell someone else that they were allowed to grieve a little...I guess I need to do that myself - regardless of how DH feels.

Thanks to you I can now see that there are reasons for my behaviour i.e. I have become so used to things being painful and hard, that I'm scared I'll ruin it all if i just relax and be happy.

Writing this down and sharing it with people who care has made me acknowledge that my feelings are real..and they are affecting me everyday.

It is a scary new world...and i don't want to look back and wish I done it differently. I'll take it slowly though. 1stly talking to DH, 2ndly buying some maternity clothes (much needed), and then maybe we'll buy some baby things together.

Thanks to you all for helping me. You really did.

Jo, I'm so happy to hear I made some sense to you. I remember being pg and wondering why no one else was talking about what I was feeling. The way this changes us should be talked about and shared and 'normalised' so we don't feel so badly about ourselves. I think you are incredibly brave to have spoken up about how you're feeling. I know I didn't when I was pg, and maybe I should have in hindsight.

Oh Jo big big :hug: to you, you are so not alone.

I completely agree with everyone here, when trying to get pregnant is so so hard, when it finally happens, I think we look for the trap doors. Im still waiting for the ecstatic gushing feelings to come but Im not sure they will......dh and I are both kind of flat about it.

This is how my brain is understanding this process, its like queying for a ride at dreamworld, you eventually get to the gates thinking you are about to get on this amazing ride and you sit in the car and then you get told you have to wait 8 months, to go down. :doh:

All that build up (and ltttc is a build up) just to then sit and wait.....its crazy you have a 12 week hurdle, then a 20week abnormality scan to get through and then still the anxiety of not knowing if it is all going to be alright in the end....I think I may become violent towards the next person who tells me this is the most wonderful time of my life.:wall:

Sorry Im not sure this helps (it has turned into more of a cathatric release for me), please just know your not alone and you should give yourself time to grieve for your angel. I grieved after every failed month of conceiving (which dh didnt understand) so I am damn sure, you deserve to give yourself some time.

Big love Lis xx

jo, i just want to send you loads of :hug: :hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: xx

Hi Jo

My path was not the same as yours but I just want to say that feeling less than ecstatic is in no way a reflection of what mother you will turn out to be. I had a minor freak-out before my little one was born (even though she was planned) and I am sooooo glad that I read somewhere that not everyone falls in love with their baby the moment he or she arrives. I was fascinated with my newborn but didn't feel that overwhelming love that you often read about and I didn't stress about it. She's now four months old and I love her more each day. Which is lots!

I think given what you've been through, what you're feeling is completely understandable AND what you're planning in terms of talking to DH and buying a few maternity clothes is sensible.

Just take things slowly, don't be too hard on yourself and don't worry if by the end of your pregnancy that you haven't got a fully stocked nursery. I wasn't able to do that for my daughter because I had my step-daughter living in her room until 4 days before she was born. Makes no difference - they don't care where they sleep and to be honest, I'm kind of glad that I'll be doing it now. Feels like I'm doing it for her and her personality rather than some unknown baby.

So just do things at your own pace and don't worry if you never get mega-excited. Things will happen in their own time.

Oh dusty, I'm grateful for your support - it speaks volumes about the kind of person you are - even if you do wanna kick me up the @rse!

Thanks Fiona - that's really nice what you said and very honest, and it makes good sense. I know my little one will have a good mum and dad - we'll just be doing it our own way, in our own time.

Jo,

Sweet :hug: :hug:

Don't be so hard on yourself you need time to grieve for the twin. It does not mean you are not grateful for what you have. I am sure you will be a great Mum belive me there is a friend of mine who has not lost a twin and she still gets frustrated at those who fall so easily and take thier kids for granted. I would say it shows more about how much you love cherise and want your little bundle.

Hang in there I am thinking of you

Hi Jo
I was in tears for you reading the pain that you have been going thru. It is all normal as the others have said, dont beat yourself up. It is SO hard to be optimistic for LTTTCers, then actually being PG must be surreal and going thru the trauma that you have makes it bittersweet. Take your time, hun. And thanks for sharing with us as I'm sure when me and others TTC get PG we will go thru similar feelings too and now we can be aware of it. HUGS

I have suffered m/c (3) and been TTCing since I was 28 (now I'm 41) and do understand where you are coming from. I did however go out and buy a little yellow outfit for the baby after my first scan at 6wks 5 days. It somehow helped. I hadn't got that far before. It somehow made it feel more real. If you can, make yourself go out there and get something, anything, just a little something for the bub, it may make it seem a little more real, like it did for me.

I haven't managed to buy anything else and will not be able to do so until I have the nuchal scan done and see all is OK. I ended up in tears at a market on Sunday as I wanted to buy a bunny rug but I just couldn't do it. My lovely MIL went back and bought it for me. My DF tells me to just buy stuff but I'm finding it incredibly difficult to do.

Losing a twin is the same loss you feel for having a miscarriage so please do not discount your feelings. Make sure you both deal with that loss. Men don't always handle a loss well. My DF & I ended up splitting after our second loss this year as he did not handle it well and didn't discuss it with me. Try and get him to talk about it, because I'm sure he is hurting deep down.

Jo,

For more than 3 years you have hoped every cycle for AF to stay away, for this month to be the month. And for more than 3 years AF came, and smashed your hopes and dreams on the rocks until eventually you were too scared to even hope. Now you're PG, but those smashed dreams don't just wash away. Sushee is right, infertility doesn't go away just because you're PG, the repeated disappointment and sadness month after month doesn't just fade away. You would have to have 4 babies without conception problems to balance out the 3.5 years of waiting for this pregnancy! Of COURSE you feel scared and apprehensive! Of COURSE you fear to hope, after having your hopes smashed so many times.

It seems sometimes LTTTC is like holding your breath. Every month you try and try and hold your breath in hope and every month your hopes are smashed and then, with another cycle beginning with the last one ending, with a shuddering gasp you squash your disappointment and fears down and grab another breath to hold. After 3.5 years of that of COURSE it's hard to realise you're PG, you can breathe now.

Added to that for you there is the crushing blow of losing your baby at 8 weeks. I don't have fertility problems but i have had 2 m/cs and nothing takes away hope like loss. You'd have to be super-human to be able to brush that off during the same PREGNANCY as the loss, especially when you're scared even to grieve. But you should grieve. Have a good cry, for all those cycles of pain where you held your breath for nothing, for all the treatments that didn't work, for all the times you were forced to celebrate other women's pregnancies and births when you were still waiting, seemingly endlessly, for your own turn. Cry it out hun, let yourself feel the pain of that. Infertility can be so bloody cruel - THIS is your chance to breathe. Mourn for your little lost twin. A miscarriage is the death of a child early in pregnancy - for many women the scan reveals this, not the physical loss. It was always the loss i saw, to see a baby without a heartbeat or just a womb with only one where there had been two would have been just as, if not more, devastating to me. Your loss is as real and valid as anyone else's and after all you went through to fall pregnant probably even MORE painful.

It sounds like DH might be having similar denial problems with the pregnancy. He's been waiting for 3.5 years too, and not grieving your little one might seem like the less painful option. The two of you are SO used to having to put your hopes away and try again try again try again, it must be terrifying to even hope that this is it, your hopes are coming true. Even harder still to admit they were coming true and have been dashed again by the loss of one of your little twins. And from that almost impossible to enjoy the pregnancy when you already know how cruel life can be so concretely.

So have your sadness Jo, it is YOUR sadness. THen go and look in the mirror, pull your top up. Your baby is coming. Look. Your baby is coming, you can breathe again. Now go buy some clothes that fit! :)

Love and :hug:

Bx

Hi Lenny - big hugs to you
I think everyone else has pretty much said all there is - just hope you're feeling a bit better. It takes a long time to settle into the pregnancy, and losing a baby is a whole other kettle of fish.
Take care

Jo, I really feel for you hun. I did a post almost identical to yours when I was prg too. I couldn't understand why finding out that people around me were pregnant still hurt so much - I was already prg!!

But now that our beautiful boy is here, I can tell you nothing much changes unfortunately. Well it hasn't for me. It still bothers me when I hear that someone has fallen prg 'accidentally' for example, because no matter that I now have my beautiful boy here with me and my DD too (and I am truly so grateful for that so please don't misunderstand me) I still will never have that experience.

Sushee is right (as usual!) it does change you forever and you'll never see pregnancy or babies or motherhood the same way again.

I've actually found that a lot of issues I'd buried during my prg, particularly in relation to the baby we lost and the circumstances causing my infertility have resurfaced since I've had DS and I've actually been to see a counsellor this week, just to talk it out and maybe deal with it once and for all. I don't know if I ever truly can, the grief is still definitely there.

So I guess what I'm trying to say in a very roundabout way (sorry, sleep deprived, you know...) is that your feelings are pretty normal I think.

I'm glad I stumbled across this thread because it's also made me see that my feelings are normal and I shouldn't be feeling so guilty that I'm not 100% ecstatic 100% of the time now that DS has arrived safely, which is how I keep telling myself I should feel after everything we've been through. So thank you for being brave enough to post. :hug:

A good friend of mine has been TTC for about the last 18 months, she never had trouble getting pregnant, it was keeping the baby that was the problem. Now she's 31 weeks, and it was only a couple of weeks ago that she started doing anything, ie buying clothes. She refused to let herself get attached to her baby becaus eshe was convinced she was gonna lose it.

We encouraged her and her DH to spend a few minutes talking to bubs before they went to bed and as soon as they woke up every day. She said it was hard at first - she didn't know what to say, but now she talks to him all the time.

Maybe thats something you could try?? I hope it works for you :) Hugs!

Oh wow, I don't know what to say.

Thank you all so much.

I have admired and respected a lot of you for so long, and to be getting such amazing support and advice and wisdom is such a huge privilege.

I can honestly say that things are changing for me - and that's all because I feel OK about my feelings. I don't like them...but they are there, and beating myself up for having them was only making the whole thing worse.

Oh, and i bought some preggy shorts and tops - they aren't so bad...and they are a whole lot more comfy than my old clothes :redface:

It was hard to write the first post - but by doing it a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders - and i am eternally grateful to you guys for not judging me and for helping me to make sense of this. Thank you so much!

Hey Lenny, glad you are feeling better.

You're welcome hun, not sure if my post helped but I hope so. I can't tell you how much the girls in this forum have helped and supported me, that's what we're all here for!

I'm so glad you are feeling better :hug:

Jo - I haven`t had to deal with infertility, I just wanted to come in and share with you my own experience with loosing one of my twin babies at 6 weeks, it was and is one of the hardest things to deal with, here you are still pregnant yet you`ve also lost one of your precious babies, the grief for me at times was so overwhelming and like you I found it so very very hard to enjoy my pregnancy, each day I thought about my baby, DH very rarely mentioned the baby, MIL told me "It wasn`t a baby" which off course upset me even more. I was so worried as to how would I be able to bond with Adrian knowing that there should have been two of them, I also felt that some people would think of me as being selfish, afterall I still had a baby but the fact was the twin was a baby and a very much loved one although a big surprise to know we had conceived twins.

I lost the twin on 1st December, 2005 and I always get very emotional at this time of year and coming up to the anniversary, this year for some reason I have been even more emotional, I haven`t as yet planted a tree for bubs but have felt I need to so I have a Wollemi Pine on it`s way which is 2 years old so fits in well with the time bub left us, I`m hoping this will help. Maybe you should plant a tree, if you haven`t done so already.

You`ll find your little one will always be there with you, I feel it with mine and feel he/she is a part of Adrian, I still look at Adrian and wonder how it would have been like to have 2 of him and how life would have been different.

Now 2 years on DH will sometimes mention our twin, our DH`s have a different way of showing emotions and it`s taken this long for him to freely bring the baby up.

Hugs to you Jo I know exactly how your feeling and as I said it`s very hard but soon you will be holding that precious baby in your arms which will help a lot with your grief.

Take Care

Dee

:hug: Good to know you are feeling better.
xo

Hi Jo!
Just wanted to give you a big :hug: and say a big thankyou for starting this thread. It was a little while ago now, but I only stumbled across it recently, at a time when I really needed it. Reading your and others words helped me immensely to understand and deal with the anxiety and denial I have personally experienced toward being pregnant. As I think Sushee said, this is something that isn't talked about enough, yet it's so common and understandable for LTTTC'ers to experience. Good on you for having the guts to speak up.
I am so happy it has helped you immensely to do so, and especially to see that you are feeling much more able to look forward to the future with your son. That's really wonderful.
All the best hun, and thanks again!!!!

Arielle

Hi...

I just found this thread too :)

I can't believe how much I needed to read this in the earlier days of my pregnancy - I felt so alone struggling with exactly what you have posted! And the people around me just thought I would be ecstatic - and I thought I would too. But no, infertility doesn't ever seem to go away.

I think I've been tiring my friends out with my neuroticism about needing the birth to go well, i've really had quite big anxiety about "doing it right" and it hasn't been until reading this thread that I've just suddenly realised...it's probably all related to infertility too.

I'll have to think about that some more. Thanks - I'm glad to bump this thread up again, I think it will help so many people.
Thanks Jo, I hope you are doing well these days, GBHs.

Actually was thinking today that I may make this thread into a sticky, as it seems to really speak to many ex-LTTTCers. Are you okay with that Jo?

That's fine Sushee. It's amazing how we all felt alone in our thoughts, but actually we are not alone and we are supported and understood by so many. :grouphug:

Cool thanks hun. I agree, which is why I think it would make a great sticky.

Great idea Sushee!

oh honey hugs to you.:hugs:
I think I got in the habbit with IVF of waiting for something to go wrong, I spent the whole of my PG unable to relax and same didn't buy anything till quite late in my PG

Thank you so much for making this post a sticky.

After 4 years of secondary infertility, IUIs, IVFs... I am conditioned to expect disappointment and grief. I have developed all these coping strategies to expect failure, and how the hell do I now just switch that off? I can't! 4 years of conditioning is a lot to now change to anticipate success.

I am almost 14 weeks, and feel utterly disconnected from this pregnancy. With my DS (took 2 years to conceive but needed just clomid) I named him early, spoke to him all the time and felt a bond instantly. Now, we have such a close relationship. I am beating myself up that I barely acknowledge this child so far, and worry about our eventual bond.

I just cannot seem to believe it is real, I am forever living in fear, waiting for the crunch to come - because its inevitable, thats what we do. Its what we've always done - fail. The alternative: another baby - just seems like such a far fetched concept.

Maybe when I feel movements? Maybe when we buy things? Maybe not til the baby arrives. I don't know, but its tough. I thought I would enjoy this far more than I have so far. I keep tryig to retrain my thoughts, but its hard. Thank you for this post, and showing me its normal for LT's, it has helped a lot.

Hey BB
Justy wanted to pop in and give you big cyber :hug:, it is just so sad that we get to this position and i agree, everyone says stay positive, but i feel if i think really positive then i set myself up for what i keep thinking will be the inevitable pain. Im sure it will get easier ( ihavent even dared to put a BFP in my signiture) and i know when the day comes and you hold that little, so longed for babe, in your arms, your heart will melt. Good luck BB and know that your not alone in your feelings, i think it comes with the territory.:hug:

I didn't add the BFP til I was 12 weeks to my sig. So glad there are others who "get it." :D

Congratulations BB on your BFP. Don't worry about your bond with your little one - you will be just fine. Take care of yourself, and remember you are not alone.
:hug:

Although it's been a long time since the original discussion on this thread, and since any subsequent posts, I just wanted to say thanks to Lenny for being brave enough to post her original message and to the other ladies for sharing their experiences and for making this a 'sticky', and to add how relevant and helpful this post still is. I am currently nearly 11 wks pregnant, having conceived via IUI (first cycle) after nearly a year of TTC #2 (14 yrs after #1!) and two early miscarriages (5wks). We went down the ART route relatively early due to my age (38).

My experience has been so like many of the other ladies - I just haven't felt really 'happy' about being pregnant yet, and the more I research the more I find out how common this is for women who have been TTC for a long time, or who have had problems with previous pregnancies. When I found out I was pregnant the first time TTC #2, literally on my first cycle off the pill, DH and I were over the moon, and with no reason to feel any different, since I conceived my son by 'accident' at 23, we madly went off and chose names and decided on prams and you name it. The second time we were much more cautious, but cautiously excited. When I lost the second pregnancy, I was sad and angry and frustrated (ie I was grieving) and it took me a while to deal with that. Longer than some people around me figured I 'should' take, which made matters worse. This time, it's like my brain and body just can't bring itself to be excited and happy yet - it's still too early and it still feels like we're eternally 'waiting' for something, apart from the obvious! We've told noone about this pregnancy yet, not our kids nor even my mum, and we won't until we feel it's 'safe' and that feels like the best policy for us right now. Being 38 and having the increased risk of chromosomal disorders etc has just added to the waiting. All the scans so far have been good, but I have just had the blood test part for the combined first trimester screening for Down Syndrome, and have the ultrasound part in a week and a bit. So, we wait some more.

I felt guilty and ungrateful for feeling this way for weeks, particularly having had ART (sooo many people helping me to achieve this pregnancy and sooo lucky to be pregnant at all!!) but now I've realised - for me personally, it's been a really rough time, this past year, and I really need to give myself a break. I figure this is my body trying to protect me 'just in case'. I'm hopeful that if we get a good result from the combined tests I'll feel able to relax more and enjoy this pregnancy and look forward to the little one to come, but if not, I'll just take it as it comes and try to go easy on myself.

In my googling over the past few weeks I've learned that women who have had trouble TTC (combined with some other factors) also tend to have higher incidence of antenatal depression, which, since I was feeling consistently low and weepy (but let's face it, hard not to when you're also tired all the time and have low-level nausea all day long) motivated me to talk to my hubby and my obstetrician about how I've been feeling, I guess in case I don't start to 'feel better', which wasn't easy at first but has actually really me helped so far. As has, I must admit, getting past (I hope) the worst of physical symptoms of nausea and tiredness. I found the Black Dog website helpful, too, more than anything, like this thread, just to help me realise I'm not Robinson Crusoe - this is a lot more common than I ever knew. I'd heard of post natal depression, but even having had a child previously, before I went and looked for the information, I'd never heard mention of antenatal depression, or of women who really wanted to have a baby who did not feel overjoyed and excited at being finally pregnant.

The only advice I would have for anyone else going through this would be to talk honestly to someone you can trust, and take care of, be patient with and be kind to yourself. You're not alone in these feelings, you're not a bad person, and feeling this way does NOT mean you will be a bad mother.

Hugs and good luck to all!

Just wanted to say Thanks Jo, for starting this thread. And to everyone for these replies.
I know it's from years ago, but it's so helpful to read about these kinds of experiences, because I think that there is a taboo about expressing anything negative once you've been lucky enough to become pregnant.
I am only just pregnant, and have had a few serious worries so far (spotting, a potential partial mole, which was ruled out last Thursday, though there's still some odd area of blood vessels in the uterus). I am 9 weeks today. I have a lot of fear and anxiety, and I feel like my family especially doesn't really "get" this. Not properly.
Then, this weekend, just two days after we got our positive scan, we found out my sister-in-law AND my husband's sister-in-law are both pregnant. My brother's wife is due about a week before me. He's younger, has been with his wife for a couple of years and married for about 6 months, and trying for let's say ... um, that's right, the magic number, one time. This is the third couple I know .. oh no, hang on, the fourth ... who's got pregnant on first try. My mum and my whole family knew about my brother (they didn't hesitate to announce it) and everyone was waiting for me to get the all clear in relation to the mole before telling me.
My brother is pretty sensitive too.
It's not like anyone's done anything "wrong" by me. I'm just so angry, and so upset with myself for being angry. Plus I'm worried that if I feel anything "bad" (like envy or spite) that it will endanger the pregnancy.
Also, and this is weird, somehow I feel like the fact that these two women in my family are pregnant will make it more likely for me to lose my pregnancy. I know that sounds fairly crazy, but I think it's all that statistical thinking from IVF, you know.
And I have the plain old fashioned childish envy, when you just think "why do you have to steal the attention". My brother has always been ... favoured, really (not just over me, but over my other siblings - he's the golden child, the natural talent, the "charismatic" one who gets things effortlessly without any work, but with loads of charm). Anyway, I probably need therapy, I reckon. I am getting some, but it's all this relaxation stuff right now.
Anyway .... I'm so lucky and I'm still so glad ...
Just wanted to say Thanks to people for being honest. It really helps.
Best wishes,
WW