feelings of grief

Hello everyone!
My name is Tei, I am a RN and I'm currently studing to be a birth and postpartum Doula and a childbirth educator.
I'm currently doing the bit in my course that discusses greif and loss.
I'm sorry if this isn't apprpriate as I don't mean to offend anyone, or bring up things that some people maybe uncomfortable discussing

but as I have never experienced the loss of a child, I can only try to understand the things you women (and man) go through.
During my carreer I expect to come across (although I hope I dont!) loss a fair bit..

What type of things helped/aided you guys to mourn/grieve? (I don't like the term moved pass it, cause I realise even if he still go on our day by day lives, we still feel the loss and it's still there)

What things make it worse?

This is just to help me understand and then when it unfortuantly happens to a client I can help her in ways she needs it, rather than just using what the text books say (which isn't really correct..)

Thankyou Ladies (and men - I would love to hear how the men feel too)

~Tei

Tei, firstly, on behalf of all the women who you will deal with, thankyou, and congratulatons for "going out there" and getting info.

Dont know how much this will help, but.....

the hospitals should keep the pregnant and waiting mums in a different area to the "early pregnancy units" - i was losing my baby and was sitting in a waiting area with big full round tummies! HELL

for me, it was hard that no-one really knew i was pregnant the first time around. so the second time i tild a few people - the first time i had to just basically carry on like nothing had happened! and my selfish, insensitive sod of a manager was preg at the time too, and even though she knew i had lost a baby she was still going on with her "dont push the pregnant woman!!" and "i am allowed to do this, i am preg!" comments ALL DAY LONG. I used to be friends with her but have absolutely no respect left!!

not sure what else you are after?

Hi Tei. I agree with all the above comments. I also struggle with people give me the 'I just want you to know this is very common' comments. It depends greatly on the context they say it in, but a lot of the time they are saying it because they have heard it from somewhere else. I realise MC is not uncommon, but that really does not give me any comfort. I generally find that the people who I have appreciated, are the ones that have said they are sorry and that they have no idea who I must be feeling but want to offer support. They are not trying to give me answers, as really there aren't any. So really, just be supportive and compassionate, and be ready to listen if they want to speak about their baby.

another big thing- if the women you deal with are strong enough, encourage the women them to be open and honest for the sake of others who will end up going through the same thing.

we all get sex ed - why isnt it mentioned to us how prevalent miscarriage is? why arent we prepared for this?

the only way we can help future generations is to educate them as to how often this really happens - it can only help our future daughters!!!

Hi Tei,

Couldn't agree more with what everybody has already said. The comments like "It was meant to be" and "This is very common" are not helpful at all. I already know all of that, and it is absolutely no consolation at all when experiencing or after experiencing a miscarriage.

The one thing I would like to add that no-one else has already mentioned is that the day after my D&C I got a call from a lovely nurse that had looked after me in recovery afterwards. She was calling to see how I was going and to also let me know the contact details of the local miscarriage and stillbirth group. I really appreciated that she took the time to call me at home the next day and the support group has also been a wonderful help to me in trying to get over my grief. They have also helped me with counselling and books to read etc etc. So my suggestion would be to know the contact details for your local support groups, SIDS and Kids etc.

Oh and I just thought of another one. If the woman already has a child, never say to her "at least you have your son/daughter" Please don't get me wrong, I absolutely cherish my DD after what has happened to me and will be eternally grateful to have her, but it does not mean that my feelings of loss for the baby that I will never have are any less. I hope this makes sense?

HTH and thanks for taking the time to help out those of us who have lost a baby.

Hi Tei
Just want to reiterate what megsmum said i think it is so wonderful that you are doing this research. I had ectopic last year i was only 7 weeks, and yes we definately need a seperate area in hospitals, i recovered from my surgery in the maternity ward which truly broke my heart one little girl came skipping down the corrider asking everyone to come and see her new baby sister which was totally awesome but not for me at that moment. Sorry i dont know if thats something that you can influence but something i feel strongly about.
I guess the biggest thing is just to say im sorry this has happened that was all i wanted and a hug of course;) but you get so many at least you know you can get pregnant, at least your here to tell the story, its early days at least you werent to far along and so the list goes on the thing is you already know all that stuff and people saying it over an over drives you insane. yes..... i think sorry is good and ask if they want to talk about it, for me that would be it.
Here Here Catrionalee education is so important and i think its too late when you are already in the situation to be hearing statistics !!!!

catrionalee - I agree with your 2nd comment so much, mc are so much more common that I realised, it wasn't until I started talking to people that I realised how many women have had to through it, in saying that, what Katiegirl said about just because it isn't uncommon wouldn't make it any easier I can understand that what ness. help the individual.

saltprincess I think that would be the hardest thing for me, seeing that no matter how many weeks it is, it is still a living thing... Part of me realises I have to see it like that for my client, but part of me doesn't as I feel it would be easier to distant myself and not get as emotionally involved (remain professional) (how i deal with things), despite this i do feel it is still a living thing..

Thankyou ladies, this is really what I need, it's the little things that we don't even think of that can trigger people. I'm just trying to be as prepard as possible, hoping that it may make it easier, atleast this way I know I am doing all I can to help my clients.

Did people find that family members and friends became closer or more distant?
also, did it affect your relationship with your partner?

(feel free to tell me i'm asking too many questions and prying =P)

~Tei

i think you are wonderful for looking into this and hope you can "be on my team" when the time comes!!!! as for family - brought DF and i closer - distant with everyone else.

People posted the same time I did!!

Alot of you are talking about stupid things people say, maybe this due to a lack of understanding, how to support friends/family, maybe we need more education and knowledge out there for this kind of thing, don't really know how I would achieve that....

The seperate place for you to be rather than around other babies sounds so obvious and common sense!! I realise maybe it isnt possible due to money, room and all those political things, but I will keep my eye out for that if I am with a client when it happens, and voice it to the staff at the hosptial in hope to have it taken into cosideration if it wasnt.

That is great what that nurse did Megsmum!!! that's cause us nurses are the best ;) =P

once again, surely common sense with the midwife who called you Saltprincess!! was it at the same hosptial/clinic?? cause wouldn't they have it on file anyway?? that is so horrible!
thanks everyone for replying!!

Salt - I really appreciated that she did that for me, obviously I was very emotional the next day, but I was very touched :( I also had a call like you did about a doctor's appointment (not obs though thank goodness! What a silly woman that midwife must be!) - this was even after I had rung and cancelled it and explained why! GRRRR Off topic I know, but I see you are in the TWW ATM, just wanted to wish you the best of luck!

Tei - I had very different reactions from family and friends and am still coming to terms with some of the insensitive remarks and also total lack of acknowledgement of my miscarriage by some of them too. My mother is top of the list when it comes to dumb remarks and I must admit that my relationship with her is still strained :( My DH's family were also wierd to me after it happened and I have never so much as had an "I'm sorry for your loss" and/or a hug from some of them, which I have found difficult to cope with.

My relationship with my DH was challenged by all this (although we have had other issues in our lives lately with my DH being made redundant from his job). We found though, by continuing to talk about our feelings to each other that we have a greater understanding of each other and our relationship is closer than ever. I really don't know what I would have done without him.

I have pushed friends away, especially those who are pregnant/have babies while I continue to cope with everything. But I am also the type of person who prefers to grieve by myself, so I think I would have done this anyway if that makes sense. I totally appreciate those of them who remain supportive to me, but just need the space to come to terms. But I know these friendships will remain close in the end :)

Sorry to ramble on!

hi tei, I too am impressed that you are seeking this knowledge as a professional in the industry.
I agree with all the ladies before me have mentioned.
I guess I was pretty lucky with my experience, I went for my first us at the hosp and was told there was no heartbeat, the poor sonographers were so sympathetic that I felt like making them belive I was ok. they found us (me and dp) a little room to sit in and sort of let it sink in, but then I had to go doen to emergency and explain at the desk why I was there, not easy when almost hysterical.
the doc I saw was a female and she jumped up on the bed next to me and sat crosslegged and gave me a big hug, then explained my options, I went back the next morning for a d&c.
anyway, I didnt ask too many questions at the time as I was in shock and had no idea what to ask anyway, the hospital did give me some leaflet about sids and kids but the website was mostly people who had lost older babies, I didnt feel "qualified" for want of a better word, If i hadnt found belly belly I dont know what I would have done.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there should be more support afterward, at the time one is in shock and pain and its not till later that one starts asking questions, and who is there to answer? the doctors are too busy.
I hope i made some sense!

Starrysky, when I had my US due to spotting and the sonographer found that the baby had died, she wasnt very helpful, but did ask if I was sure of my dates etc etc. I guess it was to make sure that I was as far along as I thought. Anyway, once Id had the US and discovered the bad news, I went in to pay for the US and they said, its ok we will bulk bill you. Now its not much, but at that moment I was so upset and thought that it was very nice of them to do that for me.

As for what happened when I had my 3 m/c's, well the first time it was like the dr said its only ur first m/c dont let it worry you too much, and to be honest I didnt quite know how to feel because I had never had a m/c before! No one offered me any support and when I asked the dr what I do next, they said "this is very common in ur age group, we dont look into anything until you have had 3 m/c's etc etc"! I felt like a failure. The second time I m/c'd was a little bit harder and probably the worse one of all, but still no one offered me any support and I was basically sent home to just let my body do its thing! The last time (and I hope thats true!) was just a nightmare, I couldnt believe it could happen yet again. Even after the 3rd m/c in a row the dr still didnt really offer any info until I asked him if there is any tests that can be done now! He was a pretty sympathetic, and I dont think he realised how upset I was but after that I had heaps of tests done and finally my first D&C after a m/c. I just felt that no one really cared how we felt and that its just a normal occurence with women my age, but just a little bit of caring and yeah maybe a shoulder to cry on would have made all the difference.

I know I shouldnt say this, but if I had the choice of when to m/c it wouldve been early like I did as I dont think I could go thru losing a baby at a later stage in pregnancy. I really feel for people that lose their babies in the 2nd or 3rd trimester, that would be an absolute nightmare. Please dont get me wrong when I say that, I was really upset when I had all 3 m/c's and wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy, but I hope people understand what Im saying here.

lindy, i agree completely, i thank the stars that i lost them early on and not in the 2nd or 3rd trimester. it was hell on earth enough, let alone had i started to feel him kick

Have to agree with the insensitivity of medical staff. I was told on the morning I went in for my D&C that I hoped I wouldn't mind that I was probably going to be put in the maternity ward once I came out of surgery. WTF? No, nothing would bring me greater joy you idiots. I in no way think myself superior over those who don't have privatre health care, but don't I pay for it to get supposed preferencial care? As for relationship, family was closer but friends drifted as explained in a previous post. Hope all this information you are getting helps you out somewhat.

I found that my DH and I were brought closer by our 2 m/c, but I think it is important that you take into consideration how it affects the husband/ partner. My DH was so intent on making sure that I was coping OK and looking after me physically and emotionally that he never really gave himself a chance to grieve. It was only a couple of weeks later that he finally couldn't hold it in anymore and had to let out everything he had been feeling. He needed someone to discuss things with, a third party who was as vested in the event as I was, yet someone who understood what he was going through. As a Dhoula you could be well placed to provide that sounding board the partner needs. Make sure that the partner is dealing with their feelings not just pushing them down and pretending they aren't there simply for the sake of their partner or the fact that they are male and therefore aren't supposed to let things like this get to them.

Tei, thanks for doing your research and being prepared for different situations. the hospital i went to to give birth to my son, who had died a few days before at 39 weeks, had nurses who made all the difference to me and my dh. they also had a couple who were clueless. the supportive nurses made sure to sit and talk to me and explain what would happen, and why it was best to go through the birth process even though Yeti had died. they offered support, and didn't try to sweep me under the rug to focus on their patients who were giving birth to live babies. best of all, they allowed me and dh to keep Yeti in the room with us when he was born and made sure to make stamps of his hands and feet and even snipped a lock of his hair. they had a special book they put it in. they let me dress him, and gave me his first blanket as a keepsake. these things may seem morbid, but they are all i have of my son, and are more precious to me than i can possibly explain. they also took photos of Yeti, which are painful to look at but yet precious as well. without the guidance of these women, i would not have any of these remembrances of our son; perhaps i would not have even held him, which i now look back on as one of the most important times with our son.

in addition, our ob was so gentle and explained that there was nothing we could have done to prevent Yeti's cord accident. she explained that all parents have guilt when they cannot protect their child, and that we would be no exception. i clung to those words as the months drug on after Yeti died.

the clueless nurses said things like the others have mentioned above -- "you can have another" or "at least you know you are fertile" or "god needed an angel" or "god only gives us what we can handle". these things hurt so much - i didn't want another child, i wanted my son. i still do, and no one will replace him. and i can't believe that god is so selfish as to take a baby because heaven needs more angels, or that god wanted to test me by killing my child (or worse yet, if i were weaker, my son would still be alive). i just don't think saying things like that helps. i guess it also made me crazy when my mom said "you are so strong" halfway through the labor. i screamed that i wasn't, that i had no choice. and i didn't. i wanted to die with my son, but that wasn't what happened. we have to live through things that more painful than we think we can take, but we do.

thank you for taking the time to become the best birth professional you can be. i am sure that you will be supportive to all of your patients, because you have already taken the steps to care about all of them -- no matter the situation. good luck.

:

---

No one suggested a support group or counselling to me, I was just left to deal with it until I broke down two weeks later and DH sought out support for me from SIDS and Kids and a psychologist who deals with pregnancy loss.

---

I completely agree - no one at the hospital suggested anything like this and in the months following, I REALLY needed it. It was only very recently after the birth of my son (I am finding a lot of the grief/fear/anxiety that I didn't deal with at the time has resurfaced) that I was told by a social worker with the community health centre that the hospital runs a support group that meet every month - WHY wasn't I told this????

We lost our baby at 12 weeks and I agree with some of the other girls that a lot of the time people discount an early loss - but to ME, I saw that little heart beating, it was my baby. One of the most painful comments (and it wasn't meant to be painful, but that's the thing...) was "a healthy fetus doesn't abort itself".

I was hoping one of the other girls would post about the memories you can keep - for me with an early loss it is only my pregnancy tests, my yellow pregnancy record card, early u/sound pictures and reports but they are more precious to me than anything. They remind me that my baby did exist and while others may have forgotten them, I never will.

Obviously for a woman in AuntieM's situation (beautiful post hun :hug:) things like footprints, photos etc can be taken and I've heard so many friends here on BB talk about how important these things are.

When you go home and are supposed to continue on with your life, this is all you have....

Thankyou everyone for replying and sharing you experiences!!!
It's good to hear what little things I should avoid, and other things I should really try to achieve.
Thanks for lettting me know that being able to hold your baby if possible and have a piece of hair and hand and foot prints and photos etc would be really important, even if they don't seem so at the time.
As much as I wish I don't have a client (or any women) to experience this I do feel more prepard and capable of being there when she needs me.

~Tei

Hi Teirae, I had a stillbirth at 24wks and what I would like to suggest is that you encourage a mother to see and hold her baby after birth as it helps so much with the grieving process. During my 27hr labour I was asked this question and I don't know why but I said I didn't want to even see my baby. I think I was in shock, but I had a great midwife who persisted with me and encouraged me to see my baby, which I did in the end and I am forever greatful to her for encouraging me. My midwife was fantastic and she was not only my nurse but a friend. Also another thing I found really difficult was organizing a funeral. Having to ring many funeral directors to find out what services they provide (as with babies they vary greatly) I would always cry when asked questiong and couldn't reply. If the hospital could suggest a good reputable funeral director this would help greatly as it is very hard to have to make arrangements to bury your child. I'd just like to commend you on your research and trying to make things easier on grieving mums.

Because I felt so out of control of my own body, I needed to grieve by being left alone when I felt like it and reaching out to other people when I felt like it and not on other people's time tables.

Tei,
I have great support from my husband and close family, but having said that I didn't feel that they know how to react and had trouble acknowledging that it was actually a real baby that I have lost, I didn't just have a small operation (D&C) so I should be back to normal the next day. Information for these people to help them understand what we are going thu would be great.

I was sent home 650 km away to deal with it by myself; I have no access to support groups and living in a small town I don't want everyone to know either. That is why this online system is so great for me.

I agree that it doesn't help for people to tell you that so and so had x number of m/c because until it's you it's not you.

I think that I want from my husband and close family is acknowldegement that a baby has died - they are struggling to do this and tend to ignore it. My husband and I are going to plant a favourite tree this afternoon in memory of our baby.

Good luck to you.

Hi Tei,

I am currently having a miscarriage so all of my feelings are still very raw at the moment.

I went to emergency at my local hospital on Australia Day as my doctors were closed. The comment by the doctor that annoyed me most was 'most people don't even realise they are pregnant and think they are just having a late period'. I was 'only' six weeks pregnant, but what my she didn't understand was my husband and I had been trying for 6 months, I was regular like clockwork, so after I missed my period I took a test straight away. We were so excited and for the last 2 weeks we thought we were having a baby. So I felt like I was inconveniencing them because technically I shouldn't even really know about the pregnancy yet, or so she thought. Because of that 'only' six weeks remark, I too felt like I was not 'qualified' to express my grief over a 6 week pregnancy, so it was comforting to find other forums where women felt the same.

She too used the word foetus instead of baby, which upset me too. (As my husband just said to me, for 6 months we were trying for a baby, not trying for a foetus. We weren't saying to our family, we are having a foetus that will eventually grow into a baby, we told our family we were having a baby.) It was also called a 'threatened abortion' which I was most upset about. An abortion sounds like I didn't want the baby to begin with which was so very wrong.

There are two things that I grieve about the most. I had bleeding with my first pregnancy, so I had an US at 6 weeks and saw a heartbeat. That little heartbeat at 6 weeks pregnant is now my 2 year old son, so when I was told they couldn't find a heartbeat I was devastated because I remember the heartbeat of my other child and could vision a living creature, not a foetus. When I saw the gestational sac on the screen, it broke my heart thinking there was a baby in my belly and it was dead. Not a foetus, a baby. I felt like a failure, like I should have been able to protect it. I cursed myself for climbing on the kitchen bench last week, or for eating something perhaps I shouldn't have, that perhaps I had been complacent & relaxed since the first pregnancy was successful.

There has been much more blood than a period, and I was passing clots, so I don't understand how the doctor could say it would be just like a normal period. Everytime I saw a large clot I wondered if it was the baby, and I was tempted to try & catch it & give it a proper burial. Everytime I flushed I felt guilty & cried. This is what was going on in my head which I'm sure might sound crazy to others. I too am surprised how much grief I am feeling, it is totally unexpected. You know about the dreaded 3 month mark so in my head I was prepared that this may happen, but I wasn't prepared in my heart.

I totally relate to the other posts, in that I have heard so many cliche's over the past few days I'm ready to explode at the next person who gives me one. I'm not stupid, I know it was 'nature's course' or 'it wasn't meant to be' or 'it's common' etc but these quick fix answers do not make me deal with it any better. As my husband says though, perhaps that is what people say when they don't know what to say.

I've been lucky in that my family (on both sides) have been really caring & supportive. My mother in law even sent a letter to my husband at work telling him to ensure he supports me & to not underestimate what I am going through, which I thought was lovely. He said he was so happy she wrote to him because, unless I ask for help, he just thought I was doing ok. He said he's told his friends at work and they give him the 'she'll be right mate' answer, or everyone has a story 'my aunty had 3 miscarriages & still had 5 kids' so he said he finds it hard too because it's not an environment where he can express he's upset. I agree with one post that I will find it hard to forgive a few friends who have been unsupportive & I'm sure they think I'm over-reacting. They haven't had any children so I'm sure it's a lack of understanding. One even said, yahoo - now I can drink at her hens night! Like its a consolation prize for me. I also agree with another post that I couldn't imagine what it must feel like for women who have experienced a longer pregnancy. I'm gutted at 6 weeks, I couldn't imagine my mental state if I was pregnant for longer.

This week is just dragging. I have a final US tomorrow to make sure its all 'cleaned out' properly & to determine if I need a D&C. So long as the bleeding continues & there are more doctors appointments I don't have closure & can move on. So I sympathise with saltprincess who's friend said 'aren't you over that yet', that is so cruel as your body would have barely recovered.

Thank you for taking the time to try & understand. Don't underestimate the importance of your research. It will change the lives of many women if they are treated with a little more sympathy.

PrincessLeia - *big hugs girl* I'm really sorry to hear you are going through it right now. Despite reading all these posts and listening to people, I still don't really know what to say.
I hope you get the closure you need soon. *hugs again*

~Tei

I would just ask that you try to not say anything that could be interpreted by your client as blame for the baby's death. My doctor said my shopping trip was "not good for the baby" as he removed it. Nothing else anybody has said to me has bothered me. Even the inevitable "God has a plan" etc, etc because that one statement just overrides it all for me.

I like the idea of supporting the partner as well.

hi tei

i was just reading up on all of this tread and wanted to put my experience on hear first of all i agree with everything all the ladys have said i lost my baby girl at 23 weeks due to a diease called bilateral muticyctic dysplastic kidneys which ment i had to terminate my pregnancy as she would have never of survived it was a very hard choice and boy did i feel guilty and the giving birth was so heartbreaking to go through the labour and not have a healthy baby after was hard my family were great they were there always offering cuddles which is what i needed but my husbands family were completely different there reaction was it is a fetus not a baby and when i told them that i was having pics taken they said that it was just morbid and asking them to come to the funral they replied with we would never want to go to a funeral of someone we never new i just dont no how they could be so heartless and to be honest i think it was threre comments that led me to go councelling. i think after having to terminate i had to have a huge needle through my tummy that went into my babys heart to stop it i think they should have offered councelling and i was never offered it i also think that my midwife could have maybe being a little bit more compasionate instead of acting like eberything was normal. what made it worse was if people would try to avoid me or didnt want to tell me they were pregnant not sure why but i just wanted people to treat me normal not like there was something wrong with me if that makes sence. i think there is alot that can be changed especially different waiting rooms also i had to travel a long way to have that injection in my tummy so i had to have a train ride for an hour and a half knowing my baby was not alive anymore and people were smiling at me as if to say arr she is having a baby little did they no what was wrong. i would love to become a midwife and will hopefully study it after having this baby i am pregnant with now and i think i would just give a person a great big cuddle and tell them that its ok to cry and to get it all out. sorry to ramble on there is so much in my head i need to get out but i will stop hope it goes well for you and its great you are doing this for your clients i just hope no one has to experience it.

Munchy xxx