Declining needles for baby at birth

I'm sure this must have been discussed here already, but I can't find it so if someone can feel free to post a link.

I'm just wondering why some people choose not to give their baby injections at birth? We have decided to postpone the Hep B vac as I believe birth is too young to be getting vaccinations. But I'm wondering about the Vit K- if you choose oral over needle you have to give it to them 3 times on certain days... the needle seems easier. Why do you choose oral? Is it simply about avoiding jabbing tiny little bubba? Or something more 'medical'?

I think that there is a less likliehood of reaction from the oral dose than the needle, but I cant remember for sure.
I know we delayed on of the injections until the day I was leaving hospital as one of the effects it could have was to interfere with feeding, and we were having enough problems in that department already.

I know we had the Vit K injection just for ease I think. I don't think he suffered any effects from it, not that I could tell anyway. His problems with feeding were to do with his neck not a needle. Having said that, we didn't get the Hep B one at birth cos the midwife advised us not to, as its not needed if you aren't going away in the first two months of their life? So we didn't do it. However, if you don't do it, you don't get the immuisation rebate thingy from the government. Not sure if that is an issue or not for you? It wasn't for us. :-)

The studies are all over the place - the first one linked the injection to childhood leukemia, the next found no link then the next found a small link to it - so very confusing. So its a matter of what you want really, but its an easier decision if you have had a healthy vaginal birth - if you have had a forceps/traumatic birth might be better to have it. You can also supplement your diet with vitamin K, as baby will get it through breastmilk.

We have declined hep b but have agreed to Vit K. The problem we were told with the oral dose is that there can be issues with getting it all swallowed, it needs to be given in multiple doses... and something else I can't remember.

Neither of us is a Hep B risk and the baby won't exactly be out getting tats and picking up strangers in bars for the first two months so it can wait. Also, there is a 20 odd year history of Vit K being given with little side effects so we decided to go ahead. I might change my mind once I have the baby in my arms though.

We gave neither the Hep B or Vit K, since all babies are born with low levels of vitamin K, we figured their was a reason for low levels we also did a physiological third stage also, keeping it all natural here thanks

I don't see the point of the Hep B and I still think it's wrong to introduce it. Thats why!

No one ever questioned me or hassled me about it.
You can still rec the immunization allowance regardless.

My friend and her DH decided against the Vit K jab and, until they left the hospital, her DH had to stand guard by the baby's crib! Every time a nurse came to perform checks, they'd make a remark about bubs not having had the needle, and make preparations to do so... regardless of them explaining repeatedly that they did not want that for their child. They were so pleased to finally be out of there.

Both Tehya and Abbey had niether the Vit K or the Hep B injections at birth. Just my personal reasons there.

I never had any issues at all regarding it. They were both HB's. Abbey however, when she was admitted to hosp at 10 days with jaundice, I found that on her paperwork, among the reasons for us being in there was to have the hep b shot. I was asked a few times if I wanted her to have it until I one nurse finally brang over a decline to consent form for me to sign. All fixed.

Riv had neither - I need to read up on it all again, it's all gone fuzzy in my mind since 17 months ago! :p But I think that I was prepared to consider Oral vit K if the birth was particularly traumatic for him...not sure on that, that's just off the top of my cruddy memory.

And yep, the Immunisation Payment can be received by anyone - non immunisers/alternative schedule immunisers just have to sign a Conscientious Objectors form at their dr's - I guess to show that their choice has been given some thought and isn't due to laziness. :)

My son was born 7 weeks ago. He is my 6th child & I finally felt that we needed to have conntrol over his birth & what he was given. My last 2 received the jab at birth & it didn't sit right with me. I birthed at a natural birthing centre this time & queried them on why it was given at birth. Their answer was that it was the best way to ensure all babies received it (do it then & there while the mother doesn't have to make the decision to physically take the child to get it immunised).

The poor babe has just come into the world & we flood its little precious body with a vaccination.

As for VIT k...we didn't have that either. The midwives said babies are born with what they need (of course they are...why can't things just be left as nature intended?). They only supported it if there was a birth trauma.

The other biggie which most people don't realise is that the injection they give you to deliver the placenta is completly unneccessary most of the time also. I chose not to have it & my placenta came away painlessly about 10 mins after the birth. Previously when I have had the injection it was like birthing another baby because it makes your uterus contract strongly which is painful!

Until I had number 6 I always thought the three injections were necessary (except the hep B). I was never asked if I wanted them for myself & baby. They were givemn to me without explanation. This shows how medicalised birth has become. To give the mother back the decision making empowers her to feel she is doing what is right for her child. It helps pyschologically with birthing, breastfeeding & beyond to know that you are in control.

Kim

As both of our births were natural, we decided against the vitamin K. We were prepared to give it if, for some unfortunate reason, the birth was traumatic for the baby. And I disagree strongly with Hep B vaccine being given routinely at birth for babies not in a high-risk group for contracting the disease. An incredible waste of money and resources, not to mention the risk involved in giving a newborn baby a vaccination.

We went for the Vit K, but not the Hep B. Neither of us work in high risk areas, nor are we considered a high risk group so I didn't see a reason for him to have a vax straight after birth. He had it at 2 months with the rest. I might consider the oral vit K with this one... have to look into it.

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I know we had the Vit K injection just for ease I think. I don't think he suffered any effects from it, not that I could tell anyway. His problems with feeding were to do with his neck not a needle. Having said that, we didn't get the Hep B one at birth cos the midwife advised us not to, as its not needed if you aren't going away in the first two months of their life? So we didn't do it. However, if you don't do it, you don't get the immuisation rebate thingy from the government. Not sure if that is an issue or not for you? It wasn't for us. :-)

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Aparently you still do - you just have to lodge a form . . . what's it called? A something objection form, basically saying you won't get your child immunised because you've researched it and don't think it's the best thing.

And it's not just the vitamin K or whatever is in the vaccination to consider, its all the other crap that goes with it into their poor little bodies.

You might like to have a squizz of the vaccination article on the main site.... and for terminology's sake I say vaccination instead of immunisation... because the latter implies an outcome...

10 Reasons Why Parents Choose Not To Vaccinate

Thank you all for so much excellent feedback! I've been reading some more about the Vit K and I tend to agree that in a non-traumatic birth there wouldn't be a need. I also like the idea that baby has the level of Vit K they are supposed to have- our bodies are pretty smart.

Re: vaccinations, that's a whole other kettle of fish huh? So much info to filter!

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My friend and her DH decided against the Vit K jab and, until they left the hospital, her DH had to stand guard by the baby's crib! Every time a nurse came to perform checks, they'd make a remark about bubs not having had the needle, and make preparations to do so... regardless of them explaining repeatedly that they did not want that for their child. They were so pleased to finally be out of there.

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I don't understand that because written consent along with explanations need to be given before anything else can take place....interesting though!

The thing that the midwives explained to me about the vit k is that the oral dose is actually 3 or more times higher than the injection.

As far as vaccinations, I have conscientiously objected for all of my kids so far, and signed all of the forms when booking into the hospital. Of course, you still get certain medical "professionals" questioning your decision (I even had the local early childhood nurse begging me to reconsider, for the safety of the other children they come into contact with!) My kids are all healthy and the only childhood disease they have picked up has been chicken pox (which isn't on the immunisation schedule anyway! Or should I say, not that I know of - it wasn't up until the birth of my last, but I haven't checked recently!)

I really do think it's all personal choice though, and I am glad to have that choice!

We didn't have any hassles declining. It was in our birth plan so the midwives just brought us the right forms to sign. We ended up deciding to give him the vit k by injection though as he had a pretty big bruise on his head. We were happy with that as a case specific decision.

I'm glad they didn't pressure you to vax ren.

Coming a bit late but we decided to take the Vit K vaccine (in the UK they don't offer anything else until 2 months). I took the view that because DD wouldn't see a paed (homebirth, she saw the GP on day 2 or 3 i think) i'd rather obliterate the risk of Vit K deficiency right away. It's a very personal decision but for us we felt the fact we'd had a homebirth meant we'd minimised one kind of trauma and would thus feel ok about allowing the injection. When my SIL had her DD#1 she got the Vit K while lying alone and naked in a plastic cot under a bright light with MW's and Obs talking over her in loud voices while trying to get SIL's BP up and temp down (epidural complications). DD got hers in a dimmed, hushed room, lying skin-to-skin with me, breastfeeding. So that meant I felt ok about the circumstances around the injection.

Bx

We declined vit K and Hep B at birth with DS Hep B because we had no risk factors for Hep B so didn't see why we should introduce foregin matter at birth and vit K because after doing the research I didn't think the risk factors were worth the "welcome to the world, stick you with a needle" We got a lot of lectures about giving oral Vit K however our paed was much more supportive after he saw that we had followed up all three doses - apparently he sees a lot of people who don't follow through

However... DS was born at 36wks (induced) had little suck reflect and developed severe jaudice so when we had DD we decided to get the injectable Vit K as we read that it helps with jaundice and although she did suffer from slight jaundice it was no where near as bad as DS. We still declined the Hep B and there is now a revised schedule for people who refuse at birth whereas when we did it with DS there was a lot of confusion over if there was a catch up or not

Oh poor bubbies- I didn't know they jabbed some babies unsupported. Our son didn't have his needle (and routine checks like weighing) till sometime in the afternoon (he was born at 7.30am) and with us right there with him.

Ren i was the birth assistant with SIL's #1 and it was my primary motivation for a homebirth. The VitK was like icing on a big medicalised doctor-centred (rather than baby or woman-centred) interventionist cake. Classic cascade (induction for EDD+10, gels, painful pre-labour, AROM, sinto drip, morphine, vomiting, epidural, posterior baby, slow dilation, low BP, fever), she was lucky to avoid forceps (though the Ob came in with them in his hand after she'd pushed on her back (she'd been given the epidural at 3cm and bubs was still posterior 9 hours later, a stint on her side finally allowed rotation anterior but then caused random decelerations so she went back on her back to push) for 40 minutes waving them above her, in litho (basically right at her vagina, between her feet which were velcro'd into the stirrups so she couldn't move them should her epi wear off a bit) and saying "If you don't get the baby out i'll use these and you and your baby don't want that!"). It was truly awful. Seeing her baby come into the world was wonderful but it was like watching people flush a miracle down a toilet. She was totally disempowered, her baby was not treated with respect by all the staff (needle-sticker being the worst offender) or even talked to when handled, and the two took a long time to bond. In fact they still obviously struggle compared to her #2 who she had with one shot of peth, a few sucks of gas and a lot of bouncing on a fit ball in the shower.

It was the most beautiful and saddest thing i had ever seen.

Bx

A bit off topic but Caty got her chicken pox (varicella?) vax last week. Obviously it's not compulsary though.

Can anyone please help me I am not sure how you would know if you are a high risk for hep B?

When i had my daughter over 6 years ago I don't remember saying yes she can have the hep b needle? Which I know she did have because I just checked her blue book.

Thanks

I *think* high risk groups are certain racial groups (not sure which), and perhaps those in a very low socio-economic bracket? I think perhaps that's why everyone gets the Hep B at birth, cos you can't say to someone, 'you have to get the hep B because you're Nellanese', in case that's seen as discriminatory, or racist or whatever. And also I think it's given at birth because perhaps some of those groups don't go to follow up appts or get other immunisations done.
(I could be way off track here, because I don't remember who told me that, a midwife, doctor, or a lady in the checkout queue...could have been anyone :P).

i believe the reason it is given at birth or in infancy is because this is the best time to immunise. if parents decide they want to immunise their children then they tend to stick to the schedule and get it done. it has nothing to do with racial or socioeconomic groups, that is a very presumptious statement to make, and suggests that poor people, or poeple from a certain ethnic group are more likely to participate in high risk behaviours. obviously bub won't however no one knows what they will choose to do when they are older, so if the hep B is given in childhood and they are immune, it saves them contracting hepB, with all the associated problems that comes with it, passing it onto other people, and costing the health system lots of money.

Hm, well why is it that in SA there's a few extra vax compared to Vic? Can't remember which one(s) exactly (Caty's blue book is in the car) but there's definately one or two more jabs that babies get over there. What else would the reasons be except socioeconomical, racial, whatever?

Just because it's not politically correct doesn't mean some babies aren't more at risk than others elsewhere in the country.

On a side note, lol at being Nellenese!

Generally they vaccinate against Hep B if the parents are from a place where it is prevalent (2 or more % of the population have it) though since vaccinating everyone could eradicate it, many places are recommending it for everyone. There is a list on the CDC website here of the places where it is prevalent. It might be a good idea to vaccinate babies in areas where a significant proportion of the population has arrived in the last generation from the areas where the disease is prevalent.

Hep B is passed by blood and bodily fluids. It can be contracted through risky behaviours (needle sharing) or normal behaviours (from an infected mum at birth, from sharing the toothbrush of someone who you had PROTECTED sex with, from having unprotected sex with one's long-term partner who just happened to get it through unprotected sex in a previous monogamous relationship). Most people who work with drug users (my mum included) are offered the Hep B vaccine, and many medical professionals have had it.

Babies born to an infected mother should be vaccinated within 12 hours to protect them from contracting the virus. The vaccine has been shown to be effective for at least 23 years in studies. In the UK (where the government foots ALL the medical bills, for both vaccines and HepB treatments) all women are offered HepB testing during pregnancy and all babies born to HBV+ mums are vaccinated at birth.

HTH

Bx