How much responsibility lies with parents and teachers?

Just wanted to start a discussion about school children, and how much responsibility you believe lies with ourselves as parents and how much with teachers?
I was having a chat with someone this week, who mentioned how angry she was that her son was having to go to tutoring at school, after hours, at a small cost to her and her hubby, (schools suggestion for him to have tutoring, their choice to say yes or no, and I believe, it was about $36 for 4 sessions) and then to top it all off, she was expected to go along to the tutoring session and learn herself, some tips etc, on how to help her child out with their reading difficulties.

I thought it was great that the (public) school (same one my DD attends) is going to the length to have after school tutoring, and to also offer support to the parents, but the mother said that she already knew how to read, and knew the tips they were going to give her as she had already gone through it with their first child!

It really got to me, they believe that the responsibility rests solely with the teachers and the school, if their son (grade 6 I believe, and a couple of years behind in reading) is lagging in his reading or other school work, they completely blame the school and the teacher for that year.

Don't we have some responsibility towards our children to also teach them?

Am I being too judgemental about them believing it is "totally the schools fault",when I believe they should also be accepting responsibility and not just placing blame elsewhere?

Nic

I believe that parent involvement in anything the child does is of great benefit to BOTH parties.

What's interesting about the mother you speak of is that she agreed to the tutoring then complains. She says she has the skills they want to teach her but she hasn't yet utilised them with this child. I don't understand why a parent would complain about a schools effort to educate their child especially when, despite her knowledge, she has been unable to help him.

Some parents really need to step up to the plate instead of yelling from behind it.

I agree Nic, it is the job of both the school and the parents to work together as partners for the sake of each child's education. I think after hours tutoring provided by the school is a fantastic idea and more schools should follow suit. Some parents these days seem so selfish and don't want to help their children reach their full potential!! I understand that of course it may be difficult for some working parents to attend tutoring if it is straight after school, but maybe the school could work with these parents to offer an alternative if they cannot make the tutoring after school. :D

It believe & this is just IMO (coming from a teaching family)....it all starts at home. You teach your child yourself until the age at which they get sent to school. Some kids start school/kindy not even knowing what letter their name starts with. As parents we are supposed to guide & teach our children & frankly I get sick of all the blame being put on teachers & all of the responsibility...yet when it's something the "parent" doesn't agree with then all of a sudden it's "they shouldn't teach them that"!! It starts & continues at home. Teachers have guidlines etc that the follow & things that they teach...yes they need to teach properly & some may not be as good as others but it doesn't stop when the child gets home. We still need to read to our children, encourage learing & education. And teach them what we feel & believe so they grow knowing what it is we feel they should & grow into the adults we hope they will be - if that makes sense. Teachers do hold responsibility, but I dont believe as much as the parents...we had the children they are ours not the schools IYKWIM.

Well said Erin. I think learning is a partnership, but the primary responsibility lies with the parents. It is up to us as parents to ensure that our child is in the right learning environment, that their learning needs are being met, and to make up the shortfall from what they are learning outside the home (in some cases this might be academic, but will also cover a range of things like manners, morals, ettiquette, maybe religion, etc etc). You don't just send a child to school and wash your hands of them. You need to be communicating with the school to know what is being taught, how it is being taught and how your child is responding and learning.

I agree with what has already been said. It is a joint responsibility.
Additionally, how can you expect a teacher who has 30 something children to look after, to know your child and their needs better than you do? Personally, I love spending that time with my son and am actually looking forward to the whole formal learning process. I think learning whether in primary school or university is very similar. The school introduces the concepts, topics and the 'know how' - you need to go away and learn to use them in a variety of ways so they are relevant to you and your life. I think that is where the parent can play a huge,important role in the learning process.

Ditto what everyone has said, and that school is fab!!:clap::clap:

And that mum needs a smack up the head!!:wall::wall:

Taylah has always received extra help with reading, and always been a group thing with us and the teachers. She treis so hard, as do we, but it is taking some time, poor doll.:(

As she fell under the benchmark last year, she received a grant for $700 worth of tutoring, that I will also attend, at the school, after hours. And I am stoked!!!:dance:

How could anyone complain of someone helping YOU and your child...:(:(

This mother really needs a wake up call!! If she "knows all of this stuff already" then why the hell isn't she doing it with her child who is obviously struggling? The school can only do so much with limited resources.

As Erin said, I believe that teaching starts at home and I believe that it is my job to introduce my child to books, numbers, colours and the world around her. Of course she picks things up from childcare too but it is MY responsibility to make sure that she is interested in learning and enjoys learning.

Teachers do their best work when they are supported by the parents and the learning is reinforced at home.

Geez, Nic what did you say to her when she was complaining?

got nothing more to add, you ladies said it all perfectly..

Ditto with what everyone else has said.

How did you react - I would have been totally flumoxed and then wanted to tell her exactly what I thought.

The teacher is a trained professional but has probably about 30 kids in the class. She, on the other hand should be the EXPERT on her own children and I am guessing that she doesn't have 30 of them. How wonderful of the school to offer extra support - and seriously - if she has done it all before she obviously didn't learn anything because she couldn't identify the issue with her child.

Parents have a responsibility to do the very best that they can for each of their children and if that is spending 4 hours learning yourself how to help you child be the best that they can be how dare she complain about it. So many parents desperately want to be able to help their children and don't know how or where they can learn.

I think it is the job of both the school and the parents. The teachers have 20 to 30 kids to teach each day. Of course they need help from parents to get children to reach their full potential.

im a huge believer in my parenting is what teaches my children and that formal schooling just finishes those little bits off that i might not know....

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Some kids start school/kindy not even knowing what letter their name starts with

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OMG makon is just over 2.5 and knows m for makon and he picks it out to! so its not just a sentence for him!(we could be out driving and he will see a m and tell me!)

this is also why we are having a tough time deciding on which school to send our children to.

I completely agree Ellibugs: "parenting is what teaches my children and that formal schooling just finishes those little bits off that i might not know...."

Well said and my thoughts exactly.

I have to say that i believe teaching is the responsibility of the parents, while it is to an extent a teachers, but you need to be involved in what your child is being taught and their performance at school. I learnt this the hard way. My DD is in yr 4 this year and since i have stopped working and can take the time to be more involved with her school work and speak to her teacher on a regular basis she has blossomed. The school have been great with her and have always spoken to us about any concerns, my DD struggled with learning the time so we have a childrens clock hanging on the wall in our dining room under our other clock. WE ask her at different times of the day what the time is, this has also rubbed off on our DS who is 4 as he is starting to tell us the time.

Its to easy for parents to blame the school, when all it takes is a bit of your time and attention to help teach your child.

Lulu, I suggested, that it might be a good idea to attend the sessions as I had been told that a few things had changed within the last 12 months or so.
I don't know if she did go or not? I haven't seen her since.

I had a chat with DH about it and was telling him about the conversation. I was saying how I thought it was wrong that she was blaming the school/teacher etc, and then how i felt like maybe I was too judgemental of her, and then I began to wonder to DH if I/we "overparent" in a way? Are we too involved? It made me question mine and DH's parenting in a way. It's nice to come in here and read that I'm normal. Plus, like DH and you girls have said, if they've been through it already with #1, she should have been able to see some signs (you would think) with #2, or go to the teacher and have a chat. It's suppose it's not like it is something that just popped up one day.. SURPRISE!

Thanks for your input girls. Nice to read others thoughts :)

Nic

Wow, I can't believe anyone thinks school teachs a child! Well, yes, but tbh school should be building on what's learnt at home - a teacher shouldn't have to teach everything unless it's a specialist subject, like at senior school. But a primary teacher should have parents 100% on board - everyone should help their children read (DS knows the letter his name starts with and gets excited when he sees it - 16m! It's not too early!), count, get on with other children, road safety... basic things. We have 50% of our 11 year olds (apparently) unable to read, write or count. That is not the fault of the school. At the very least parents should teach children how to listen and learn - with 30 kids, if you don't know that then you won't learn anything from school.

Teaching begins in the home.

When i went to school at 4years and 9 months i could already read, count and add anything with an answer under 20. My parents were proactive educators and i am the same with DD. We learn all day long here. Today DD helped me sort the change, take it to the bank and spend it once changed into notes. At one point she managed to stack 10 2pence pieces like mumma was and i about died of pride. :)

I absolutely think the responsibility for her is mine. If she struggles it is MY job to help her, whether by helping her with actual work, finding her a tutor, or even finding her a new school if she doesn't fit where she is. Parenting NEVER stops, no matter what. Your child is always your responsibility. If they are in someone else's care then you chose that care, and that was your responsibility.

Having said that i do know ALOT of parents who struggle hugely with this. I think the shift to 2-parents-working has meant so many people have to use childcare the connections are being lost. I have a very dear friend who's child is having behavioural problems in nursery school and the carers asked her to "do something about it". She was telling me about it and said very sadly "They have her 8 hours a day, i have her 4, how can what i do make any difference?". Her DD has been in full-time childcare since 10 months. She has no choice, either she works or they lose the house, but it's breaking her up that she feels so powerless about her kids and their upbringing. I would never put myself in her position, but unfortunately they had the mortgage before they had their family.

Bx

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Having said that i do know ALOT of parents who struggle hugely with this. I think the shift to 2-parents-working has meant so many people have to use childcare the connections are being lost.

Bx

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I also believe this to be very true. Well said Bec.

Ellibugs - couldn't agree with you more hun. I see it as teaching them what I don't know myself too. I admit it is hard when you have more than one at school and as they get older they start to bring home more homework so you do have to manage your time so one doesn't fall between the cracks etc, but schools and school teachers can only do so much. And it is our responsibility to keep contact with our kids teachers so that we can pick up problems early before it gets to that stage too.

I often wonder if parents who think like this also think that teachers don't need the payrises they need? Wouldn't be at all surprised if they were.

Can I just ask that all you ladies move o Sydney and enrol at my school so I can get some parents in who think like you do!! (we do have lots of great parents but you would surprised how many think that everything is our job) In the time I have been teaching they have added more and more things to our teachjing load which would have previously been a parental job- healthy eating, drug education, child protection, sun safe, road safety etc I am not saying that we shouldn't teach them but there are more and more demands on a teachers time.
BTW That price for tutoring is VERY cheap I was getting $50 and hour last year.

healthy eating, drug education, child protection, sun safe, road safety <-- yep, that's my job. I can do that! I agree, what a waste of a teacher's time. I'd prefer more time was spent teaching my child maths! (Something I am just not good at!!!)

I dunno about both parents working - I work, but I still teach DS (and yes, not ideal, but at least DS gets a good school thanks to the area, if we didn't have this house and mortgage and were in what we could afford to rent then I'd still have to work and DS would go to a poorer school). If Nursery asked me to "do something" about undesirable behaviour, I would talk to DS's key worker at a convenient time (when DS wasn't around, ideally!) to discuss how we could work in tandem about this. Although he's Mr Perfect for them, they tell me. He saves the tantrums for home.

But kids aren't daft, even tiny ones. They know if rules are different then they play up to that. I work with nursery to ensure that DS has consistant messages, from table manners to not hitting during playtime even to sleep routines (they follow mine, btw, not the other way round!). That way he doesn't get confused and wonder why boundaries differ all the time. I will be the same with school - if he is expected to learn his words, I'll help him learn his words. If they want to talk about a problem and need me to learn something to support DS then I'll do it. I'm his parent, I'm responsible. Even if I ask someone else, like school or nursery, to help enforce it, it's still my responsibility. I don't see how other parents think it isn't! Even if I only saw DS one hour a week and hired a nanny, I'd still be responsible for him and for organising discipline.

I agree that teachers are being given too much to tackle. Things like healthy eating, sex ED (in lower/primary school), etc. aren't the schools responsibility, IMO. Having said that, unfortunately there are kids who won't learn those things from their parents and for those kids, it's good that they'll get some understanding of these things. Though in terms of things like healthy lifestyle, the parents have a much, much bigger influence than a school could ever have. For sex ED, a little bit of info might be enough to help a child understand their bodies better etc.

If a school is willing to have a tutor actually come to the school and help a child for a fee, that is fantastic. My primary school never did things like that.

One thing that I think is completely the responsibility of the school, however, is bullying (in school hours). I was bullied mercilessly in primary school (by a teacher as well as other students) and the school refused to do anything about it. They told my mother they were onto it and then did nothing. My high school was SO much better, they made a big deal about how bullying was NOT okay at all and followed through with discipline. I really hope things are better now than they were in the 90s and early 00's when I was in school.

It seems that, more and more, primary-school teachers are being asked to step up and fill the gap left by parents. I'm sure there are some who really struggle with long work hours etc, but others could certainly do better. I'm not really sure why we expect so much of teachers - their primary responsibility is, as others have said, rounding out children's education. And, while they certainly do have a role to play in building social character etc in children, parents must take the biggest responsbility of that.

My mum is a primary school teacher. At her last school she had a bowl of apples on her desk that her students were allowed to eat if they were hungry - she started this of her own initiative when she realised that quite a few of them were coming to school without breakfast. She's constantly amazed at the sorts of things she has to teach year 5 & 6 kids - telling the time was a recent one.

When I first started teaching none of my kindergarten class knew any of the colours, these kids were 4 and 5!

Holy crap mrsmac! DD knew hers at 17 months!

It wasn't until I had my own child that I realsied how bad it was Bec. These children had often never touched a book either or counted or anything that most of us do automatically with our kids.