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Hi
Currently working out whether to perservere with the controlled crying with my DD. It's hard!
After reading an article on BB, just wondering who out there disagrees with this method and if you do, did your child settle on their own eventually and what age was that? What methods did you use? I am finding I am getting very stressed with it and don't want it to lead to feelings of becoming down in the dumps IYKWIM.
Thanks.
Belinda
I really, heartily disagree. I think it causes more stress for everyone involved TBH.
I went to a sleep school that employed this technique (but never called it that or I wouldn't have gone), and it was just awful. It wasn't helping my boy and I just had to accept he would never be easy to settle.
It got better after a looong while, but that's just the way DS is.
DD has started not wanting to sleep about 18 months, she was always pretty good before then. On advice from a MCHN I now sit next to her cot, in her room. I just sit there until she has either gone to sleep or is happy to say goodnight. The time gets shorter and shorter.
This probably wont help you much (sorry), but after three kids I feel you just have to give them the attention they need until they feel safe or secure enough to drift off on their own. All kids are different but I think you get further in the long run if you do it that way.
xoxoxo Good luck, this too shall pass.
Belinda - I know where you're coming from, I was there a week ago. I don't agree with CC in theory, but was just at my wits end and did try it in a modified form (only leaving him for a maximum of 5 mins) and it was just AWFUL! I only had to do it for an hour, but didn't sleep a wink all night, I just lay there with a belly full of nerves hoping hie wouldn't wake again cause I knew I couldn't start it all over again. I sat here later that night and read "the Con of Controlled Crying" and made my mind up to stop immediately. My aim wasn't to get him to self settle because he can already do that, it was to get him to sleep through the night, or at least for longer stretches over night.
But, it didn't work anyway and I noticed the next day that DS was unusually clingy and his day sleeping patterns were out the window. He went from self settling to screaming whenever I put him to bed :( I actually called the nurse we saw at our sleep school and she told me I'd absolutely done the right thing in stopping - it's not good for babies or for mums.
If you look at the link below you will see I've posted about my settling methods in this thread, as have some others who use more gentle methods. I've used these methods with both of my children who have self settled from a relatively early age (about 3 months). I won't say I never allow them to cry for a single second, because I do believe that grizzling and protesting is part of the process of learning to put themselves to sleep initially, but I definitely won't be leaving him to cry again! It was a moment of desperation after a week of very little sleep but was a lesson well learnt to trust my instincts.
The key is to LISTEN to your baby - you know when she needs you to comfort her.
https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...ep-school.html
I havent (& wont) use CC. During the day i will rock, pat or bf DD to sleep and did the same with DS when he was a bub, and at times both have slept on me or Dad. Night times DD is always bf to sleep & DS was rocked/patted. DS started to self settle around 9 months and generally is a great sleeper and DD is still too young IMO for me to worry trying to teach self settling.
Lulu i agree wholeheartedly:
This probably wont help you much (sorry), but after three kids I feel you just have to give them the attention they need until they feel safe or secure enough to drift off on their own. All kids are different but I think you get further in the long run if you do it that way
Bindy, I have to say hun that I am definitely not a fan and haven't used it with either DS. They both are great at self-settling now, and I believe that's because they were taught gently and feel feelings of love and support when they are in their beds, rather than fear and/or sadness. JMO.
I think books like Pinky McKays - Sleeping like a baby and for the older ones Toddler Tactics are fantastic. I also think Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution was a good book. Have you had a read of these yet?
The thing is that I find the best way to teach babies/kids anything is with patience. Sadly we live in a society where we expect quick fixes to things and unrealistically have the aim of having babies sleep through the night well before babies are meant to sleep through the night, so that we can get on with everything else going on in our lives. I know I am an idealist, but I would love for our whole attitude in society to change, to recognise the importance of children, and find ways to better support parents in raising kids. Sorry, I think I have gone way OT here. My point I guess is that they do all learn to sleep well sooner or later. And Pinky Mckay says in Toddler Tactics that she believes the best sleeping toddlers and older kids are those who were "parented" to sleep (ie parents to the time to sit with them, lie with them, pat them etc so that there was no trauma at sleep time). Something to think about anyway.
If you decide not to pursue CC, you could try posting in Gentle Parenting and asking for other ideas. GL.
Hi there,
I am emphatically against leaving bubs to cry for reasons that most people have mentioned on BB (eg the article ' the con of controlled crying').
I won't say my DS is the best sleeper because he isn't. Usually at 14 months he wakes at least once during the night. But I know that whether he wakes or not has nothing to do with my sleep tactics for him. Sometimes he is teething, sometimes he is hot or cold or wet, sometimes he seems to have bad dreams etc. Sometimes he sleeps straight through for weeks.
I know I am doing the right thing by responding to him because sleep wise he is easier to settle again at night and he has dropped night feeds by himself. But more importantly during the day he is such a confident, well adjusted little boy who is happy to meet lots of new people, try new things, loves giving hugs and kisses and cuddles, and chats (gibberish) to everyone that he meets. He goes to daycare one day a week and started at a new centre last week. The carers were amazed at how easy going and happy he was. He also goes up to other crying babies and hugs or pats them, or puts his head on them.
So I really feel that we have done the right thing.
The sleep thing will pass. But your bubs development now will determine a lot in the future. I know it is so hard because I have been there, but it gets easier as they get older.
Big hugs! HTH
I didn't CC and Charlie eventually learnt to self settle at 11 months of age. It was a looooooong 11 months, don't get me wrong, and there were times I believed it would never happen. But it did.
I am not a believer in CCing in kids under 12 months of age, in that I would pick Charlie up if he cried. I then put him down when he stopped. I'd do this until he settled, and sometimes he didn't settle and that was alright too. But most times he would go off to bed awake and put himself to sleep. Charlie is now 2 and sometimes cries when he wakes in the middle of the night, but he can climb out of bed and come look for me if he really needs me (and has done so before when he's been sick) so now I don't go to him each time he cries.
I think before 8 months of age, when they learn object permanence, that leaving them to cry doesn't teach them anything about self-settling (because they don't understand that if you're not in their line of sight, that you still exist just out of sight). I think it teaches them that their needs will not always be met, which I think is quite distressing for the child at that age.
That's just my opinion though.
I disagree with it.. personally.. It is a personal decision to make and you have to do what you feel is right..
one thing I don't like is the coming and going.. Either don't do it or stop going into thier room... I think it is more stressful when you go in and out
I haven't done CC but i have done controlled comforting. I will sit by thier bed and talk softly to them so that they know I haven't abandoned them.. you can tell in thier cry if is it genuine or just plain tired and need sleep
I very heartily disagree with CC. Why would anyone want to feel alone when they are so upset? They just want their mum or dad, and they cant help it. Leaving them to cry or scream can be very detrimental to babies, and studies have shown just that.
My sister leaves her bub to scream, thinking she will learn. She is nearly 1, and screams daily. I hate it. We have very different children. Mine are happy and content, and her DD screams, cries, and grizzles all the time. How can a baby feel happy, secure and loved if they are left when they most need us???
It can be hard, but eventually very secure and happy bubs will equal great sleep, eventually!!! I always put my babies down while we are singing, happy and relaxed, and they slowly nod off.
Good luck finding the right path for you!!:hug:
I have tried the CC path on a very few occasions to the insanity of myself and the distress of my son. He has always been a *velcro* baby who settles best with someone. I just had to figure that out the hard way for myself.
He is now one and we have gone from holding in a carrier and rocking / bouncing to sleep every night to placing him on the bed at the first real tired signs and lying down with him (started at 11 months). The first night he took 30 minutes to go to sleep (no crying - just didn't *get* the idea of sleeping that way) to 15 minutes for each day sleep to 5 minutes the next night. He was ready and is now learning how to go to sleep without the rocking and the holding. He has just gone down for an afternoon nap and it took 5 minutes of him stroking my hand as he fell asleep.
It takes time for them to learn to sleep and self settle. At 5 months there is no way my son would have settled any other way than in the carrier - and that is fine. It was also the quickest and least painful method for us all resulting in a calm and relaxed mummy / daddy and bubby. He has now moved on to the next stage and as he gets older he will learn to do it all on his own. Take a deep breath and know this too shall pass - and much quicker than you think :hug:
I don't disagree with it... but it is a tough path to choose.
I think it is best used as a last resort because it is tough on bub and parents.
Good luck
I don't know if I agree with it or not because I've only had one baby and she's a pretty good sleeper.
But my MCHN said something which always stuck in my mind which was "we have to teach them how to sleep."
So I definitely agree with teaching a baby to self-settle - but gently. I always rocked DD when she was a few months old but not until she was fully asleep. It took a few days (which is actually quite a lot of sleeps!) but it did work. I think some people just want to be able to put their baby in their cot and leave them to it but for us getting that stage was a very gradual process.
It wasn't as hard as I thought BUT if I tried the gentle way with another baby and it didn't work, I'm not absolutely convinced that I wouldn't try CC. I'd like to think not, but who knows?
I think a better question to ask would be, who doesn't like to/want to do it.... disagreeing with a method is disagreeing with how another mother chooses to parent her child.
It didn't work for my children, and probably made my PND/anxiety worse. I had a panic attack finding my daughter so upset from the whole mother and baby unit thing, covered in vomit when she was never a vomiter. It just wasnt for them, so I do other things.
Kelly, sorry, wrong words but seriously, I'm too tired to even think of what I originally wrote SO what you are saying is how I meant it. Can you change the name of thread then to "who doesn't like to use control crying please"??
Thanks everyone for your replies, definately something to think about.
I'm not criticising you; just trying to prevent brawls ;)
I've changed your thread title for you. And a reminder to everyone participating in the coversation... this thread is in the Comforted sleep - no-cry solutions section, so please keep that in mind when you word your replies.
I chose to teach DS in a gentle way to self-settle (patting, stroking his forehead, shhh-ing). I would leave the room to allow him to grizzle, but return if he cried. I did try CC on a couple of occassions (when I listened to advice from "experts" and doubted myself :(), but it didn't work for DS - he got so upset that there was NO WAY he was going to sleep. I started the self-settling thing when he was 3 weeks old, but he didn't really get it consistently until he was about 3 months. Now he self-settles beautifully - I just wrap him, put him in his cot with some music & walk away. It's only in the evenings (when he's really tired), that I still need to give him some help to settle.
Thanks Christine ;) oops overtired Mumma not thinking :wall:
Everyone, your replies have been great and now I feel so much better so will further investigate the comforting sleeping, thanks so much! Feeling less stressed out. Have comforted her tonight and she settled within 10 minutes and it worked!!
:hug: to all of you xx
That's awesome! :)
I've never been a fan of controlled crying either. I think that comforting "breeds" a calmer child (mostly) and a child who understands that you are there when they need you to be. I also think that they learn empathy and caring from it. That's just my opinion though. I can't remember when Oskar first self settled, he just all of a sudden did it one night and I couldn't believe it. Most nights now he'll go down and have a chat or a little whinge to himself then goes to sleep... although there are nights where he will start to cry, I go to him straight away if he cries and we start again with a bf (sometimes just a cuddle works) then a bit of a pat and then I put him down and he rolls over and goes to sleep. It's certainly a lot less stressful to both bub and parent and makes bedtime a lot more pleasant for all involved.
Update: Had good night sleep last night, my DD woke up about 3 times but just whinged for 30 seconds and then put herself back to sleep. She is still sleeping in her cot through the day and seems to be self settling. But those times she does not self settle, I go in, pat her bum, if she cries, I pick her up and stroke her face and give her a kiss on the cheek, she'll start to fall asleep and I pop her back in her cot. Sometimes I may have to do this twice but then she'll stay asleep for a while. The comforting is certainly better than controlled! I am feeling much better about using this method.
A) I just cant handle my little guy crying full stop. I would rather he fell asleep in my arms then crying and beinglonely. Although lately I have been waiting and putting him to bed just as he nods of so he knows that I have put him to bed (he opens his eyes and gives me his beautiful smile)
B) I dont like CC.....yes I have tried and I ended up crying about it more and like Kelly said about herself, I too think it doesnt help PND. It made me so stressed out that I would sit in the hallway crying myself.
Raising a child is hard enough without making these sacrifices on them and us. Honestly...who cares if you cuddle your baby to sleep...how long are they a baby for??? the dishes can wait, the dog/cat can eat the scraps on the floor and my god...sox were not just ment for feet, they help sweep the floor ;)
to soon our 'babies' are off to school and we are left sitting in the arm chair wishing we had cuddled them more.
think about what is best for your situation....CC may work for some but not for others. Its a personal choice
so glad comforting worked better for you
Well said Maz. I hope Mat is going well :hug:
Hang in there eveningstar. My 18 mth old is still learning to settle himself. CC is just not me - thr thought of it makes me feel ill - so I've been using ideas from Pinky, Elizabeth Pantley and the Queen Elizabeth Centre site. My little fella now strokes his cousins' heads when they are crying after just a couple of weeks of me helping to soothe him that way!
You have to go with what feels right in your gut/heart and from what I can gather (and I've done a lot of reading/internet trawling) there is no quick fix and every baby is different and will be different from time to time.
Another great book - The Wonder Weeks - explains periods when everything goes completely haywire due to developmental leaps.
Sleepy thoughts heading to your house....
Hon - I just read your post before mine (I missed it) im so gald that it is working for you...and to me your not CC Madeleine...your showing her that she is still safe. Its exactly what we do with Mateauz...its amazing what a little love and tenderness brings to the heart isnt it :) little steps lead to big things in the end
Mateauz is going great guns...thanks for asking about him..he is such a charmer and I thank the big man upstairs everyday that he is still part of our lives.
I definately believe in the 'you have to teach the bub how to sleep', I feel that's what i did with my DS and we rarely have sleep issues. I had my little way of settling him but insisting it was sleep time and it worked for us. I always showed him love and kindness and i believe now bed and sleep is a happy place for him, he doesn't get aprehensive going towards the bedroom.
I have read a few of Pinky McKays books and i went to a sleep settling seminar back when my DS was a couple of months old. It all made a lot of sense to me and i only wish i went before my DS was born so the first few weeks were a bit more settled. All good though we got there and i'm more prepared for 2nd time around now (when that happens).
I'm glad you're having some success, it really does take some time and the sleep deprivation really makes it difficult to have the energy to do what you know needs to be done.
That's great news! I'm so pleased to hear that things are getting better and - most importantly - that you have found a method your are comfortable with :):
Well ladies, seems that 3 days of it worked but now it's not working! She won't stay in her cot for more than 15 minutes and screams everytime. I settle her several times but she continues to wake. Last night I brought her into bed with us and she woke at 2.00-4.00am and then decided to chat at 4.30am so DP and I got up to feed her. He made a cup of tea and I was so upset as I was so tired :( feel like I'm failing as a mother, what am I doing wrong? Is this a phase? Will it pass? Sorry to be so negative but things were looking up :doh: it seemed...
Bindy, this too shall pass. It is a phase. One problem is that trying different things and then stopping them can cause confusion. Consistency can be a big help. Also, it is hard to know what is going on with her atm - at that age teething and getting ready to crawl can be big causes of unsettledness.
Start with a consistent bed time routine and follow it to the letter every time you put her down. Use the same routine for day and night sleeps, but have an extra step or two in the night routine to differentiate it. Then pick the way you are going to try and settle her and stick to it for a couple of weeks at least. See how you go with this. If you have no luck you can reassess then.
GL. Sadly, from now, for the next year or so, you will have lots of teething and milestones to disrupt routines and good sleeping patterns. Sometimes you can just stick with what you are doing and things will settle down in a few days. Other times you need to adjust. You can never tell up front which it is. It's hard, but you will get better at dealing with it. Hang in there hun.
Eveningstar,
BIG :comfort: you are not failing as a mother. You are still learning about your girl, she's only so little and she's still learning about the world and herself. You are doing NOTHING wrong. You are the perfect mummy to your bubba and don't doubt that.
I agree with most of the people here in saying that I think that CC is not for me/us. My DH has been on at me to do it for ages, and I flat out refuse. I did it once and it was a disaster, I won't do it again.
I let her cry once (when she was about 6mths old) for about 5mins, not even that long and she power spewed everywhere. I was in tears, she was inconsolable and to top it off I had vomit everywhere that I had to clean up. It took me an hour to settle her down again after having to give her another bath, then I had to feed her again and get her back into her bed. I couldn't do CC even if she hadn't vomitted everywhere. I was outside the door listening to her scream knowing all she wanted was me and cuddles. It was heartbreaking. And I was sobbing my heart out making everything worse. When I went into her all I could do was apologise to her, saying 'mummy's sorry' over and over again, still crying, making her cry more. It was so traumatic for us both.
There are less traumatic, easier ways to do it. Babies are little for so little time. I would much rather cuddle her to sleep (even though she no longer fits on my lap...LOL!!!) than let her cry. I don't think that's teaching her anything other than mummy/daddy's not going to hug you when you're upset at night. Night time can be scary for little ones, as can being on their own, and trying to learn to control their bodys and doing what it wants them to.
I have had the tears of being so so tired and frustrated, I still do especially being pg and still waking 2-7 (yes 7!!!) times a night to my DD, some nights for hours at a time still. But I still cuddle her and give her a bottle if she wants one, regardless of what anyone else says. Yes I am tired and grumpy some days, but she is happy and lively and perfect and to me at the moment that's all that worries me. Even after a year, I am still learning about her.
Maybe your DD is teething? Even if there are no red gums or anything, the teeth might be moving under her gums. She's at the age where teeth start to move more now. That could explain the sleepless night. But don't let one night deter you. Keep trying and try to be consistent, you will find something that works. And remember you are doing your best, you can't do any more than that.
Don't worry -what you are doing IS working, you just have to keep it up for a little longer and she will get it. You have got three days of the good stuff, a hiccup here and there is nothing because you may get 4 days running, then a hiccup, then 10 days etc etc.
Sometimes you have to change your own approach about it to save your own sanity. ie - WOO HOO 3 days! OR, my fav when I am poking my eyeballs back in, is to remember the times (in the OLDEN days) when I used to stumble home from the pub at a ridiculous hour and get up for work the next day on 4 hours sleep......I did it then, I can do it AGAIN!
Don't count the hours you haven't slept, but the ones you have....
This too shall pass, it WILL.
Just keep up the same routine, she will welcome it one day.
Manta, hopefully it will pass.
Kellieem, thanks for your support. I'm thinking it's teething for sure.
Carley, my DD dislikes being wrapped but I could try it again as it's been a little while.
Lulu, thanks for the positive outlook, better to look at pros than cons I agree.
My DD is not interested in cot anymore through day but WILL sleep in our bed. I've put a shirt of mine in her cot, tried everything, have persisted and persisted but it's just not happening. She's only waking a couple of times per night which is ok, I seem to be catching up on sleep when she sleeps through the day. It's so hard to know if you are doing the right thing!! Let's hope she'll go back in her cot through the day soon without screaming and screaming. I actually can't settle her in cot by patting etc. I have to physically pick her up, she'll settle within 3 minutes and then I put her in again and she'll wake straight away, it's just a cycle.
It took my DD until about 10 months before I could put her into her bed wide awake. I admit to trying CC but other than the fact that it broke my heart, it just simply didn't work. My DD just screamed louder and longer until I couldn't stand it anymore. I cuddled her to sleep at night and put her down sound asleep - if I tried it any other way she screamed. Day sleeps were the same way and sometimes I just left her sleeping on me. Not sure what really changed but it did - I now put my DD down for her sleeps, tell her its time for bed, that Mummy and Daddy love her etc, and she just goes to sleep.
Like MR said, there will unfortunately always be something that comes along that upsets their routines - teething, growth spurts, colds, new babies - but its only a temporary thing. It certainly helped me to cope to know there was light at the end of the tunnel.
As inconvenient as my DD's sleep habits were, it has resulted in the most self assured, happy, secure little girl. Good luck.
Oh God yes Charlie went through that too. The whole "I'll sleep in your arms but don't you dare put me down" stage. And it does test your resolve because after a while all you want to do have her sleep for heaven's sake!
But it's true. It does not last forever, even though I bet it feels like forever right now.
Controlled crying isn't for us. I've spoken with DP about it and we agree that it's not for us. Oscar is now a little over 6 months and sometimes he will go down when awake. Most of the time he likes a cuddle. And at night he's a bit of a fan of a quick nightcap before bed.
This week his routine has ompletely and utterly gone out the window. It's not surprising though. I'd be upset too if I had four top teeth coming through at once and had a head cold, which is what's happened. The nights when he's woken every 2 hours (three in a row) have been fun and the timing's been perfect as Ive had work to do (I consult).
I think if I'd gone down the CCing path this week then it would have been more horrendous. For the most part the little guy is really easy going and happy and I take that as indication that we've been doing the right thing.
We comfort Oscar when we need to, and when we need to give Oscar a little space we'll do so. As an example, I was shopping today and Oscar started crying. His voice splits into about three tones if he's just tired and needing sleep. That's what was happening. I monitored him in the pram but didn't pick him up. I would have if his cry changed. He was asleep in two minutes.Needless to say I got shot a few daggers by passers by. If I had have picked him up when he needed to be left alone he would have been over-stimulated and would have stayed awake and then become overtired.
You know your child best and will work out what is going to work for you.
Thanks everyone, I have a print out of a new routine and it sounds great, will try that next and just be patient with my DD. It's gentle comforting, not controlled crying strategies. Thanks again for your help and reassurance that everything will be ok :)
I haven't read all the other responses (bit pushed for time today, sorry :redface:)
I never used CC. I decided before DD was born that i wouldn't do anything that made MY job harder.
I cannot listen to my child cry for me. Simple as that. It drives me mental, and i would FAR rather cuddle a child to sleep than listen to them cry. And if they are going to cry anyway, at least if i'm holding them i feel like i'm DOING something, you know?
I employed other techniques to help her to sleep. When she was very small (under 4 months) i used to hold her and sing to her (a lullaby i'd been singing to the bump during PG, which worked AMAZINGLY at settling her) and rock her. I would BF to sleep but to be honest she often woke up when she came off so i stopped doing that and just cuddled her instead. I would lie her on my chest and pat her bum in time with her crying and then gradually slow down the patting, which slowed down the crying too.
If she woke in the night i'd bring her in to feed and then co-sleep with me. Some nights she was fretful and awake and crying for an hour after every feed, but walking slowly around the bedroom with her in my arms was WAY more fun than trying to sleep while she screamed and screamed next to me.
From 5 weeks i had a pretty rigid bedtime routine. 7pm bath, 8pm feed, then bed. I'd put her in the cot and pat her to sleep. I don't know long it took before she was able to just fall asleep immediately - she's 2 and still sometimes needs me to pop in and out to settle her again. I decided i could only control ME, so i do everything i can to help her settle - whether or not she does so isn't my job to worry about.
When she was 4 months i moved into my own flat as XP and i had split. I moved her into her own room 2 months later because i had a new partner (i felt it was innapropriate for her to be around DP until i was SURE of him, which took about a year. 90% of the time i saw him she was at her dad's house, and the other 10% he almost always came when she was already in bed and left before she got up - he saw her 4 times in the first 14 months of her life. I moved her because i didn't want her to feel i kicked her out of our room/my bed for him) and from then she slept fantastically (i'm a poor sleeper and tend to talk and be restless which i'm sure was disurbing her). I've never had any "system" to get her back to sleep.
Bx
On Day 3 of a new routine. Madeleine is starting to put herself to sleep which is great, she is always sleeping in her cot too, it's a great gentle way of settling them without them getting distressed. It is certainly working for us...
That's great news Bindy. Well done!!