Am i pushing my child too far?

Hi,

My son has turned 6 in March and is going to grade 2. He only did 2 terms of prep and 1 term of grade 2 and was away 1 term overseas on holidays all in his first year at school (last year).

This year he is in grade 2 and finds the work easy. I don't know if should ask the school whether he should be given grade 3 work as well?

We want to enrol him in Spanish classes. He already speaks English, fluent Turkish, learns Arabic at school and now may be Spanish too. He will be taking up saxophone lessons at school this term too.

He doesn't have many friends where we live and his school is an islamic school so no kids where we live go there. We need to occupy his time after school with some extra-curricular activities. he doesn't like sport very much as we tried swimming and he bombed out after a few classes. He is solid for his age but has lost a lot of weight through the help of a dietician. He loves Foxtel and Xbox and the computer, like all kids his age but i don't want to lose him to the TV!
Am i pushing him to far?
What other extra activities can he do?

Thanks for your comments in advance.

TD, I would say be guided by your DS. I think some children need constant stimulation and challenges and others don't do well with too much activity. See how he is responding to things and take it from there. I would also say by that age that you could probably start asking him about whether or not he wants to do things. GL, I hope you find the balance that works for him.

Hi TD

Sounds like you have a very bright young boy on your hands!!!

One of the things I would suggest is ensuring that you are balancing up the 'intellectual' stimulation with 'social/emotional' stimulation.

I work alot with very bright children who struggle socially. I'm not sure if this is your little boy, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but I think it's really important when you have a bright child to make sure that you aren't 'watering and nurturing just one part of the garden'.

If possible, I would encourage you to find some way to organise informal play overs where he is just hanging out with other kids. Perhaps have a play over 1x fortnight.

Social/emotional development is incredibly important. There's a great book called "emotional intelligence" by Daniel Goleman which you may find interesting to read.

Anyway...again, I hope I haven't spoken (written) out of turn...and I wish you all the very best.

With regards to school work his teachers will give him harder work if they feel its needed, they are the professionals and will know what he is capable of and teach accordingly.

Thanks for the comments.

MantaRay - i do ask him as to what he wants to do and he says nothing or shakes his head as he finds watching Ben10 more exciting. We found a private tutor who will teach him Spanish and now he doesn't want to do it. I offered to sit in the tutoring with him and that we could both learn Spanish, which has he kind of accepted. He just wants to do nothing after school!

I, growing up was not given the opportunity to do extra activities as my parents did not speak English that well to enrol me in things like that. I guess in a way, i want him to offer him the things that my hubby and i missed out on.

Monnie- i will definitely seek out that book you recommended. I truly agree with your comment about not watering only one section of the garden, but that section is the part that flourishes with Devrim. As you said, i don't want him to be a hermit or a recluse or be bright but not be social at the same time. He loves playing with his friends at school and i guess i should have more playtime with his friends on a regular basis outside of school.
We were going to have his IQ tested but was told not to do it and to let him be a kid. If you spoke to him and heard his responses you would not believe that he was only 6. He had to sit an entrance exam to be able to enter into his school and he got 80% on a grade 2 test when he was 5, then. I want him to be stimulated all the time!

Mrsmac - the school does not want him to be lifted to grade 3 as they think that he is not socially ready and would be picked on by the older kids, who would be then 3-4 years older than he is. I go to the bookshops and buy homework books which we do together in the evening after his regular homework.

I don't know....

What about scouts? Do you have a local branch?
Or he might enjoy chess - lots of children do.
Maybe he could do some volunteering - visit the local old people's home.
Does he have a bicycle?

Dachlostar,

Thanks for the chess idea. he loves chess. I'll check out if there are any chess clubs in the area. He will be so excited if there is one!

Some schools have chess clubs, we do.

I really really appreciate all your comments and suggestions. Thank you.

There is a chess club (but its a bit too far, which provide coaching etc..) but i don't think i'll be able to take him as hubby and i both work. I will definitely enquire with the school if there is a chess club or suggest one if there isn't. I will check with the school as to the extra-curricular activites they offer. Devrim hasn't been at this school for too long (2 terms only) so we are still finding our way around as to what they offer etc..

Devrim suggested doing saxophone at school so he will definitely take that up this term as well.

I found a website which is an association for gifted children in Victoria. I will put a phone call into them as to what services they offer.

HI TD,

You must be so proud!
DSS is not advanced, but is very much so on the bright side - he too would rather watch Ben10 or play XBox, or sit in his room and draw or write stories!
he has joined a teakowndo club which helps with his socialisation.

In my opinion, it would be good if you could find something that was team based for him to join, instead of the more antisocial things like music or chess... purely for the fact that as you mentioned above, he will not be put up another year as he is not yet socially ready for it - children that are gifted will be targeted by kids that see him as a threat (even if they dont know that this is why they are picking on him) - getting him to extend himself into something that is more social will not only help him physically but also will help with integration.

just my opinion thou - hope it helps :hug:

sorry cant help you much with your DS but just thought I would pop in to see if you were planning on coming to the Berwick meet I will have my DS there ( 8yrs ) who is also in yr 2 like I said cant help with the gifted area but maybe with the social, we have only just moved here so haven't joined any sporting groups yet but hope to next year...If they got along they could join up together...

Hi Sehra

I would tend to agree with the school about not putting him up a grade. Academically primary school is so much more about instilling the basics like reading writing and basic maths and learning the process of learning but most importantly it is about learning the basic social graces and how to get along with other children and how to interact appropriately. I don't think that putting him into a class with kids who are several years older than him will do him any favours in the long run.

As for extra activities. I think that all the suggestions from others have been great, but remember that kids need down time too. It is hugely important for them to be given the opportunity to occupy themselves and use their imagination and creativity to entertain themselves - things like turning an old cardboard box into a pirate ship or a spaceshuttle or mission control or whatever and letting their imagination run wild with it. If they have activities filling every moment of their day they never have the opportunity to just daydream.

He sounds like a really talented little fellow

Hi,

Devrim had mentioned Taekwondo but i know that he won't be able to do it. I guess i will have to enrol him and just see how far he takes it. I really hate enrolling him into something, paying all the fees, buying all the stuff he needs and then after 1-2 classes he doesn't want to go and puts up a fight with me when i want to take him. Grrr. We did this when he wanted to go and do indoor soccer and swimming. He only attended one session of soccer and probably 6-7 lessons of swimming.

He also talks sooooooooooo much that DH and i at dinner sometimes never get to chat about our day as Devrim is the one who does ALL the talking. I spoke to his teacher 1-2 weeks ago and asked what are some of the things that she would complain about him and she said that he talks too much in class and has often had to tell him that she needed to teach the class and then he could put his 5cents worth in at the end after she finishes. He also has very crappy handwriting. I've bought handwriting books to train him to write properly but refuses to do them unless i sit there with him and force him to do it.

i guess a few of the first things i need to do is, find out about a chess club at school, enrol him in Taekwondo, organise his Spanish classes and enrol him into Saxophone classes at school. I really hope he carries through with the Taekwondo (he isn't like normal boys who enjoy fighting and rough play, so i have my doubts on this one).

Thank you to each and every one of you :hug:

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Hi,
I really hate enrolling him into something, paying all the fees, buying all the stuff he needs and then after 1-2 classes he doesn't want to go and puts up a fight with me when i want to take him. Grrr. We did this when he wanted to go and do indoor soccer and swimming. He only attended one session of soccer and probably 6-7 lessons of swimming.

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I think that you need to persist with most sports until they pick up the skills they need to enjoy it.
Yasin wasn't too keen on his first soccer classes but after a month or so he started to pick up the skills and understand the game play and now he's right into it. Same with skiing - he wasn't sure after his first class and kicked up a fuss about going to the second class but when I took him to the third class he couldn't wait to leave me and get into the class.
One lesson isn't really giving it a chance. Maybe you should cut a deal where he's only allowed to enroll if he commits to the whole term.
I think that Muppity is totally on the mark about children needing down-time. We won't have an x-box etc in the house because we want to force the boys to find their own fun. I'm a bit of a meany with the DVDs too. They have to have a few TV free days every week.

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I think that Muppity is totally on the mark about children needing down-time. We won't have an x-box etc in the house because we want to force the boys to find their own fun. I'm a bit of a meany with the DVDs too. They have to have a few TV free days every week.

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DSS rarely watches TV with us as we are always doing something, he watches ben10 sat mornings then the TV is off and we are usually renovating the house or busy catching up with people, he has grown to love this time (didnt to start with) so will either now help or play outside. Some weekends, we will sit down Sunday night and he will say "wow, we havent watched TV since Ben10." i asked if he missed it and he said that he didnt even think of it until now!

He also was not a kid that was into play fighting or anything like that, but the taekwando has helped him be more of a little boy and enjoy these things.

As for the equipment, it comes with the lessons as they are earnt. ie he cant get leg guards yet as he isnt up to that stage, when he is, they are supplied as part of the fees.

At dinner time, why dont you take turns asking a question of each other? after the question has been answered its the next persons turn to speak. Its great that he is so articulate, but also needs to learn that other peoples POV is also important...

HTH :)

I agree with broadening his social skills AND having down time as well. I think Scouts/Cubs would be really worth a go as its got lots of different things that appeal. I'll be putting Ds into Cubs as soon as he is old enough.

I also agree with not putting him up in primary school. I was always younger than everyone and that just annoyed me. The work was easy and (guess what!) ended up talking though everything. I ended up being given extra work to shut me up.

I also lept a year in high school, but at my own insistence. I left one school to skip a year at another but it didn't work out as I ended up sick and lost my entire last year at school. It would have been far better for me for my original secondary college to have put me up a year there. No one (except my homeroom teacher) noticed that although I was always kicked out of my yr 9 classes, I was totally at home in the yr 12 classes that my homeroom teacher used to drag me to so I wasn't clowning around outside the room....

So maybe look at advancement in yr 9-10, where you (now) can take extension classes. My DD was doing yr 8 maths in yr 7, it was no big deal...

I think if the only focus is academic/physical improvement then yes you are pushing him too far... sowwie :redface: I think all kids need down time, and not just using their imagination. Television isn't the evil box, nor are digital games brain numbing. A recent study in the UK showed that children who used DS's before school for 10 mins had a 16% increase in concentration and the ability to learn. Yes I'm not one for First Person Shooters or violent games, but I think some console games are not mindless, just as TV isn't. Try not to focus too much on activities that are only to help excel. Its been proven that plain old fun is a very big necessity, and too many parents these days feel the need to push for activities that only benefit the brain or the body... sometimes just a bit of silly fun or a little wind down time in front of the TV is ok. I totally agree with Lulu's post. And keep in mind that often schools do not like to put a child up a few years when if they are suffering socially it can stop the urge to learn or enjoy school.

Please remember children are only children once, and how boring life would be if we learnt all we needed to in the first 20 years of our life!

I think its wonderful that you questioning this, and it shows you really care for your sons future :)

Hi,

Niliac - i know that i might be pushing my son too far or asking him to live out my dreams as a kid which i never got a chance to do. Many people have told that i am a nasty mum, in the sense that i don't allow my son to be a kid and that i give him more "homework" than what the school just provides. He is on holidays at the moment and i have bought educational homework books to complete whilst i'm at work. I may be just providing him the work because i know that he is capable. i want him to be "the best". i guess i am the one with the problem, being a perfectionist.

I spoke to my son re: Taekwondo as i was going to start phoning around for classes but when asked him AGAIN whether or not he wants to go to Taekwondo his remark was simply "i don't want to get bashed by other kids". i guess he does not know that Taekwondo is not about bashing other people up. I've explained what is and he still doesn't want to go. He wants to learn to play chess.

What am i going to do with this kid?? He doesn't want to do anything.

Go buy a kite. The weather is perfect for it right now and so much FUN!

In fact you may be able to find a 'build it yourself' kite, he may like that more and he will get a chance to follow things through until the end.
I bet he would like to do anything if you are there with him. It's up to you to show him to 'push through' the things he doesn't like at the start. You can extend him in that way.......there's no point only doing things you are good at straight away. He might need a bit of resilience coaching (lots of kids do) from you, cheering from the sidelines and all that midday movie stuff. :lol:

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Niliac - i know that i might be pushing my son too far or asking him to live out my dreams as a kid which i never got a chance to do. Many people have told that i am a nasty mum, in the sense that i don't allow my son to be a kid and that i give him more "homework" than what the school just provides. He is on holidays at the moment and i have bought educational homework books to complete whilst i'm at work. I may be just providing him the work because i know that he is capable. i want him to be "the best". i guess i am the one with the problem, being a perfectionist.

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If you know this why not try something else, sorry if that seems abrupt I just thought thats why u posted? Academic pressure and pressure to be perfect can be extremely hard on kids and again harder as an adult. It can lead to all sorts of social and emotional problems, especially anxiety and depression. I agree with Lucy go fly a kite!!!! I think you seriously need to get some fun into your lives :) He sounds like a bright spark already don't forget to enjoy him and the time you have with him besides the time spent for self improvement.

Good luck :)

I think there is some excellent advice here.

I wonder if his talking a lot is a sign of loneliness. Maybe he talks a lot when he can because he isn't getting as much companionship and one on one parent time as he would like. This isn't a criticism - it is definitely hard finding time as a working parent - I am one myself - but maybe something to think about. If you can find a way to address that, it might help him. I also think if this is the case, that some of the suggestions for team sports or scouts etc would come in very handy because it would give him more company as well.

Just a thought.

I can understand it of you're worried that there's not enough balance between the physical and mental aspects of his life but excercise doesn't have to be structured to be effective. Instead of spending the time at classes maybe you can spend the time excercising together; fly a kite (nice one Lulu), go for a bushwalk, try canoeing, ride a bike, play hide and seek, take a day trip to the snow and ride a toboggan (coming down is so much fun you don't notice the walk up lol) or build a snowman, dig a garden together, kick a ball around in the park or your back-yard, make a slip and slide (maybe wait until summer lol), hula-hoop, jump rope, play tag or hop-scotch..... It's all cheaper than tae-kwon-do and just as effective.

Hey, i'm jumping in late with a response - i did type a big reply earlier but my computer ate it :rolleyes: when i hit Post...

Anyway, i was a gifted child and it looks like i have a gifted child myself. A few things stand out for me.

Do you think it's possible he cannot finish things under his own steam because he doesn't ever have to? Because you are there nudging him along/leading his activities (in the sense of getting the books etc.)? When i was a kid my parents didn't choose my activities, i did. It took them a while to do so, i can remember being about 3 and people coming over to have me read to them - i hated it, i felt under constant scrutiny and all the praise seemed empty because reading was easy for me and i didn't have to try. It left me feeling that "if they REALLY knew me they wouldn't like me anymore" because i knew exactly how hard i was trying - i.e. not at all hard. Eventually i refused to read anymore unless it was a very secure time when no one could possibly come and "catch" me. Once my folks twigged that i didn't like the scrutiny (they weren't being mean, they were just amazed at me) they let me choose what i learned about.

When i got going on my "Why?" questions my mum would say "i don't know, let's go to the library and you can find out" and off we would go. She would say "i'll get you back here in 40 minutes to take the books you want out" and i cannot tell you how many times i took out 6 books on my ticket and 5 on hers because i HAD to know about something. I got used to working FOR me, to find out what i WANTED to know, under my own steam. Safe in the knowledge that no-one was going to check up on me, i learned crazy amounts of information. Just the other day a friend who's about to begin his coppiceman qualification came over and as we walked through the park he mentioned he needed to collect leaves from 30 different trees and write them up with their latin names. I pointed out 17 from where we were stood, some of which i knew the Latin for. His mouth fell open, and he said "HOW do you know those" and you know what, i don't remember. Presumably at some point i wanted to know about how to recognise trees and plants. But all the things i learned on my own REALLY stuck and it gave me a life-long thirst for knowledge that doesn't need any external motivation.

The one-off lessons/only a few lessons rang a familiar bell to me. When i was a kid i was praised a lot. "You're SO smart" was what i heard all day. Problem was, i wasn't having to TRY to get those compliments. It was nice, i liked it, but i felt like a bit of a fraud. Then i would come across something i DID have to try for - like music (i read it great but played brass and woodwind BADLY, i discovered the classical guitar later in life and thank goodness, an instrument i've an aptitude for, at last! ;)) and i would give up. Why? Well because i'd heard forever "You're smart!" when i wasn't trying - i thought if i had to TRY something was wrong. Please consider, at 3 i was reading at a 5-year-old level, at 5 i was reading at a 9-year-old level, at 9 i was reading like a teenager - i NEVER had to try at any of that. I can remember my first riding lesson, i was DEVASTATED that at the end of an hour all i could do was walk and turn and stop - based on my experience with most academic things i thought i'd be jumping on the first day! I didn't get a B in anything until i was 15 and i practically had a nervous breakdown!

My mum did a few things to try to counteract that, and i've plans for many more for DD. We planted seeds. No matter HOW good you are at gardening seeds take the same amount of time to germinate, grow, flower, fruit. The process needs input - you have to keep on watering, tying up, weeding, and if you do it well you get flowers or beans ot whatever you planted - but there is no "do it, get instant reward/praise" that is so common when you're gifted. We (mum and now me) do plenty of focusless creative tasks - pictures scratched in mud or sand, playdoh creations, basically the longer you spend doing it (while enjoying it of course!) and the less permanent it is, the better - the point is to enjoy a PROCESS in the absense of any results. We went (and i now go) on walks through the countryside. Moving your body is so important and it calms the mind. You might find a 2-hour hike sees him, by the end, talking less and seeing more of the world. There is a danger, when your mind goes at 12million miles a second, that you'll miss the actual world you live in.

Re: chess - my dad had an electronic chess game. I lOVED playing (and sometimes beating) a computer, especially when it didn't matter to anyone but me and it got me interested in computer programming to boot! You can pick them up at carboot sales for buttons now, they're hardly Nintendo DS!

So this has been mammoth but to sum up - i think you KNOW you're pushing him too hard. Ultimately he might grow up to be a very clever man, but it's possible he will have awful memories of his childhood if you knowingly push him the whole time, and it's possible that being pushed through childhood will make him hate his intellect to the point that he NEVER EVER wants to use it. There's a difference between quenching a child's thirst for knowledge and drowning them in your own expectations.

He's on holiday just now, LET him do nothing. You say you have him working now because he's capable. I bet if i FORCED you to, you're capable of running 30km/day for a week. How do you think you'd feel about me if i did that though?

As an aside i think you need to look at what you wanted for yourself and work on making that happen for you. The trouble with living things out through other people is that they're NEVER going to be good enough, because they're NEVER going to be you. Pick your OWN goals to work towards, support your son in his desires to learn. Push YOURSELF.

Bx

Hoobley,
Your last paragraph brought tears to my eyes. You are so right about me. i want him to live my dreams. I don't want him to have bad memories of his childhood.
i really think that my son has the same character as you not wanting to do something that he knows he may end up as a failure since we ALWAYS tell him how smart he is and how good he is academically.
i will buy him chess software or a hand held electronic chess game since he loves it so much. I want to thank you and appreciate the time and effort it has taken to write that very long post just for my son and i. i thank you once again.

Kiting is great. His dad is very capable at building and making things so i will suggest that they spend some "boy" time together and make one and we go out as a family and fly it together.

Thanks to ALL :hug:

Turkish Delight :: I think everyone here has given you some fantastic advice .. although I do think that you are trying to be a good mum and that most (not all) but most parents do the best they can with what they have available to them at the time. No one is perfect!

I really think you have the best intentions with your son, you want the best for him. Don't be upset by that!

I would be asking myself ... why do I want him to be the best ?? Would you rather him be the best .. or would you rather him be a happy and well balenced child ?? I think 1 - 2 afternoons of extra activity (perhaps chess and a team sport ?) is plenty. Any more than that and you are definately asking too much.

I just want to add ::
My daughter came home with her report card .. she excitedly opened it up as she was SURE she was getting an A for maths .. she has tried so so hard .. she studied and she always thought she did well .. we encourage her and I was excited for her .. she opened the letter and she got straight C's. C's for everything. She was devistated. I turned to her and said.. "you know what.. did you try your best." She nodded with tears in her eyes. I said that is all anyone can ask from you.

I didn't say ok .. we can fix this! Take her down to the book store and buy her extra homework books to do extra work so she could be the best. I honestly don't care what other student get for their grades and comparing children will only end in disappointment for someone. I do believe that every child has something to offer and has a talent at something! Perhaps my daughter is an artist!

Anyway .. that night we got out a board game and played it as a family by the end of the evening she was happy and feeling loved and accepted no matter what. And that is what I want for my children.

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Turkish Delight :: I think everyone here has given you some fantastic advice .. although I do think that you are trying to be a good mum and that most (not all) but most parents do the best they can with what they have available to them at the time. No one is perfect!...feeling loved and accepted no matter what. And that is what I want for my children.

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I didn't quote the whole post because it's right above mine, but I agree with Peach completely.

Turkishdelight - you seem like a dedicated mum who wishes the best for her son, but perhaps you are trying to hard? You say he 'doesn't want to do anything', but perhaps you are making too many suggestions and giving too many options? If a child is really interested in doing something, they tend to badger you to do it! Could it be that you are ceasing on a passing curiousity in things that your son knows others enjoy and trying to push your son into them because you don't think he does enough out of school?

Children learn best through play, imitation and example. Too much emphasis is put on intellectual education when children are young - what's wrong with reading enjoyable picture books TOGETHER, rather than doing more maths on top of the homework they already receive? Taking a trip to the zoo with a friend (get him to nominate a classmate he enjoys spending time with at school and invite them), looking at and learning about the animals in person? Perhaps a trip to the science museum where he can fiddle with things (a good boys outing!).

These things are adventurous and full of fun, as well as being educational. The trick is to not make it seem like they're learning... ;)

The kite suggestion was an excellent idea. Building a kite that flys well means you need to learn about different materials, aerodynamics, weather patterns, a bit of engineering, but most importantly a lot of fun.

Also, it doesn't have to be outdoor or 'manly' pursuits. Helping with baking and cooking is a great way to learn about volume, measuring and cause and effect; gardening is a great way to learn about plant life cycles - especially if you grow something edible!

One or two after school activities a week are a good idea, but too many is physically exhausting for a child. I mean both extra-curricular 'classes' and trips. Once a child has finished his homework and helped with any chores etc, they get very little time to windown and relax on school days. It's no wonder they sometimes just want to 'veg' in front of the tv.

All of these things, whether done with parents, a friend or groups of peers, are all good ways to build social and emotional skills. Interacting with others of ALL AGES is incredibly important.

Interesting thread, even if it is 18 months old.

My own view, based on my own experience, is to facilitate as much additional education as the child desires, but not to force it. I used to read like it was going out of style because I had access to lots of books, but I was also spent a hell of a lot of time outdoors when I potentially could've been learning, yet the outdoors time was much more beneficial than the nerd time, in balance with my existing school work and homework.

I skipped most of Grade 3 and was made to do Grade 4. I was so small for my age I couldn't even reach the floor from the Grade 4 chairs, and I was intimidated by all the older kids. That said I was intimidated by my own shadow a lot too. So whilst my academic knowledge was advanced as compared with my peers, my social skills suffered, and if anything I needed a hell of a lot of remedial work socially because I really struggled. In Grade 10 I again ended up studying above my grade for a while (at first year Uni level) and basically burnt myself out and bludged my way through as much of college as I could manage. That became a habit and although I have a degree, I rarely actually attended Uni because I was just over the whole thing. It's only now that I have returned to voraciously reading and actually yearning for tertiary study again.

So the moral of my story (IMHO) is not to push, but to guide and facilitate. Academically gifted kids find their own path and set and achieve their own goals as their potential dictates to them. And in my opinion, socially smart but academically average people achieve far more happiness than the academically smart, but socially stupid.

Break it up so he can do a little of everything, TV time games time, outside time etc.
He is in grade 2 not in year 11.. So dont worry too much he is a little boy.