I am at a total loss

I don't even know where to start

DD has never really been a great sleeper. But about a month or two back, she started sleeping through about 4 out of 7 nights and the rest I got up once or twice to put her dummy back in or to give her a sip of milk. For the last two weeks it's been UTTER HELL. She is waking up 6 to 7 times at night, between 23:00 and 6:00 :( She does not want to go to sleep, she just keeps moaning and moaning.

I used to put her in bed around 7pm, give her her bottle, say goodnight and walked out of the room. I would go back 10 minutes later to take the bottle out of the cot and to make sure she is all tucked in nice and warm. She would be FAAAR away in dreamland by then. Then she will wake up maybe twice a night for a sip of milk and go back to sleep imediatly.

Lately I'm putting her to bed earlier, because she looks and acts tired. But as soon as I place her in her cot, she arch her back and starts crying. Not the teary kind of cry, but the heartbreaking moaning. I then have to get her out of the cot, and lay down on the bed next to her to get her to fall asleep. If I place her back in the cot, she is fine.

Last night we had 40 minutes of utter chaos. She crying, me crying, DH trying to keep sane between two blubbering women. He had a bad day and were moody from the get go. I'm so proud that he kept his cool all the while trying to get dd to sleep. He forbade me to lay down next to her to get her to sleep, told me that she is just rooting for attention (in a sense I agree with him). EVENTUALLY HE laid down on the bed with her and got her to sleep in 5 minutes.

I've tried all I know. It's not teeth, it's not heartburn/reflux, she does not have fever, it's not heat, it's not cold, it's not pain (tried three differnt painkillers) it's not a strange room. I had her at a physio to get her lungs cleaned out .. I've tried vicks on her back. :dunno:

I just feel like such a LOSER for not getting my daughter :(

I'm taking her to the dr (again) as a last resort this afternoon. Just to have her ears checked (she does not pull away when I press around her ears) and to make sure there is not some underlying thing that I'm missing.

I'm pregnant with my second child and I'm not even have my first one "under control" , kwim!!! HOW THE HECK am I suppose to cope. I know I probably will, but I'm going to be such a wreck, not that I'm not that now.

It's just a bad day, right?? Tomorrow will be better, right? I'm stressing over little things, right??? It's just the hormones talking, right?????????

This turned out long .. thanks for reading. I'm going to drown myself in chocolate now :rolleyes:

Oh hunny, things WILL definitely get better. Having such broken sleep is like torture isn't it. Esp when you're pregnant too.
I'm not much good for sleeping tips..except do you think maybe getting rid of the dummy might help?- not immediately I know! but maybe it will help down the track a bit?..Sorry not much help, except that it won't last and just try and hang in there :hugs:

I'll keep thinking..

Oh hon :hug: :hug: and one more for good luck :hug:. And a whole block of chocolate.

I don't have an answer for you, but just wanted to let you know that you are NOT a loser. Babies aren't meant to be easy to figure out. Hell, adults aren't easy to figure out, and we can talk! You're a fantastic mum, it's just hard to remember that when you are exhausted and your little one is distressed.

And yes, it's just a bad day, that sounds like it has turned into a bad couple of weeks. But you're not stressing for no reason, the reason may not end up being something serious, but until you work out what it is that's bothering her so much, of course you'll stress. You're a mum, that's what we do. Doesn't make it any easier to bear at the time, but remember, this too will pass.

First thing you need to do is give yourself a break! As Suse said, this is just a phase and it will pass. It has nothing to do with your parenting, every family goes through a stage like this. right now I'm typing one handed as I'm nursing our 18mth old who has woken up 6-7 times since I put her down at 8pm!

DD is a shocking sleeper and we had her at the dr due to her freq night wakingings at 6mths and were told to sedate her (which we obviously didn't - despite probably wanting to) We go to a chiropractor regularly which helps her settle and we are now doing the elimination diet (book by Sue dengate try fed up dot com) We had a bad weekend and beginning week and fell off the diet wagon which is why I'm paying for the consequences tonight but other than that it has been a godsend.

Have you changed anything recently, washing liquid, food, nap times, routines, switched brands of anything? I remember my DS was unsettled for weeks and we tracked it down to changing washing powder??? Who knows it might be a developmental milestone or it might be that she is trying to change her sleep routine dropping naps or changing bedtimes???

Have you read the book by Elizabeth pantly (The No Cry Sleep Solution), it's great! I'm looking forward to getting the toddler edition from the lib when it's available, it's full of gentle settling ideas.

All the best and remember when you are waking the halls in the middle of the night there's a hole bunch of us out there doing exactly the same thing!

DS has been grumpy this last week and sleeping has gone downhill - could it be a wonderweek sort of thing?

Lee - the only thing that keeps me sane atm is that darn dummy ... she can ask for it when she wants it. And she only gets it at sleep time. At day-dare I don't know, but at home .. the dummy is only for sleeptime.

Suse - Thanks (especially for the chocolate) .. she has not been easy to figure out since birth :cryinglaugh: Just think I deserve a break from figuring her out. But you are right .. I'm a mom, so after spilling my guts on here, I'm just going to go home and be A MOM.

My dad just phoned told me: With kids you can be dead sure of one thing - you will never run out of not having ideas :wall: He is just trying to help, he is such a sweetheart

Oh hell, Saram that put a smile on my face .. knowing that walking the halls alone at night, I'm not really alone.

If got her off formula just last week, but this has been a problem since before. I am currently dropping my washing off at a laundromat (no kitchen, being renovated) it could be that!! She has one 1 1/2 hour sleep during the midday .. on her own "request" at day-care, could be that I'm putting her to bed to early :dunno: You gave me some good tips to go on. I'm getting my washing machine back in my kitchen HOPEFULLY this weekend, HOPEFULLY. That will take care of that.

Rosehip - :hug: what else can I say??

Hi Nadine. No real words of wisdom. Know that you're not alone . . . there are so many of us struggling to hold it together while our 'babies' don't sleep. You will feel so good when you get through this and have still been gentle with your little one.

What I wanted to say is that Kai was an absolute nightmare sleepwise for the last 2 months of our pregnancy (he has always been shocking, but this was stepping up to a new level) and I was freaking out about how we would cope with getting up 7 times a night PLUS a newborn. And the 3 nights before Jade was born he was unbelievably bad. But, just about from the day we got back from hospital, his sleep improved. He still woke up but not nearly as often and was really easy to settle again. I personally believe that they know something major is going on and it makes them very insecure. (he was also very clingy during the day). Once she arrived it was like he felt " oh, is THIS what's going on. That's not so bad!"

So, I can't really help you get your little one to sleep better, but wanted to say that perhaps it won't be as bad as you are imagining once your new bub arrives.

Good luck!

Thanks Jaapie :) I hope this is the case too. That is exactly my 2am worry. How will I be coping with a newborn and her waking up like this. If he is ANYTHING like his sister, it would be NO SLEEP for us for 5 months with the both of them. And yes, she is a bit clingy .. more to DH atm, but next week it would probably be my turn.

Well, the dr could find nothing wrong with her. Her ears, throat and lungs are clean. He said it might be hayfever (DH and I both suffer the dreadfull sneeze) so he prescribed some medication for that. TBH, I don't think it's working ... yet. Friday night she went to bed better, but I kept her up later than usual ... had her really tired and almost asleep on DH's lap before I put her down. She still woke about 6 times, but were easily settled. Saturday was more of the same. Sunday she went down with a "struggle" :lol: She sat up in her cot, singing for an hour!!! and then started crying saying: "ouch, ouch, ouch" So I picked her up and she brought up one really big wind and some milk ... I gave her some Gaviscon and put her down. Not 2 minutes later again crying with the "ouch, ouch" and her little fingers in her mouth. I applied some teething cream and got her settled in about 15 minutes of patting and shhhh'ing. And then she only woke two times last night!! woo hoo!! So all in all .. it did go a bit better. New problem .. I woke up with an itchy throat and I feel like I'm coming down with the flu .. again :cryinglaugh: When it rains, it pours!!

So now I'm not sure if she is teething again. I can't see any swelling, but it could be possible, right??

Firstly hugs. Sounds like you have heaps going on atm. My first suggestion would be to trust yourself more. You know your daughter better than you think. Oh yeah and make sure you take time out for some R and R before bub comes.

Did you just change DD to milk? It some times takes weeks for bub to adjust and they can get windy and bloated. If DD still complains of a sore tummy then try taking her off milk and giving her rice milk or some thing.

With your bedtime routine I have always found that being consistent works. Keep to the same time, put her to bed and don't take her out. If she is cracking it then pick her up, give her a cuddle and put back down. If she is uncontrolalbe then I would leave the room for a minute (this is for your sanity), wait till she settles down a bit, then go back in and tell her it is time to sleep. If you are getting too stressed then let DH take over but he must do the same that you were doing. You may find that it takes a month for DD to settle on her own and bedtime to improve but she will get it. Please disregard this advice if it does not sound right for you but this is what I have done with my DD. BTW once I took the dummy away she slept through the night...but don't try this until you have the current issue sorted.


Let us know how you go

I just read the end of your last post. yes it is possible that she is teething, especially if she is putting her fingers in her mouth

Thanks Bekz :)

I don't think her problem is that she are not able to settle herself. It's that atm she does not want too. She was in such a good routine and I would lay her down and go back 10 minutes later to a sleeping angel. It's just the last two weeks that has been this silly wishing game, that is why I think something is up :dunno:

I also think that she is going thru a emotional "growth-spurt". She gets frustrated and don't know how to handle then herself yet. It's awfull to watch, but she throws a tanty time and again. Lucky I am very patient, so we are sort that out. She is in day-care and I think she is learning (from other kids) to hit in order to cope with frustrations. That makes it worse, because she will deliberitly walk to me to come and hit me when I have taken something away. But me and DH is on the same page there, so it's handled in a consistent matter.

Thanks for all your input ... I enjoy brainstorming in here. Makes one feel less ... stupid ;)

SHE SLEPT THRU LAST NIGHT!!!! *do a little dance* :cheer: :cheer:

I could not believe it. She had a bit of a struggle to go to sleep, but it's the darn cat's fault :cryinglaugh: I just had her relaxed and she picked up her head and saw the cat and all my "hard" work went out the window. I got up at around 2:30am for a bathroom break and went to check if she was still under the covers. She was sleeping soundly and snoring softly .. too cute. She woke at 6:30, I got her into bed with me and she settled down for a light nap till 7:30 when daddy came to wake her up.

I am elated about her sleeping throught last night. I just hope it was not a once-off thing ;)

Sounds like things might be resolving now hun (i'm late again! LOL) but my thoughts:

Teething. Seriously DD goes through this sometimes and NOTHING was different. The most frustrating thing was that nothing every changed either (like no teeth appeared to let me know it'd been teething all along) but then after a particularly bad 3 weeks of it a molar appeared and i was like "oh riiiiiiiiight!" and we haven't looked back. It can be frustrating as DD only got her first molars at 23 months, and now she's getting her 2 year molars so we have about 2 weeks of every 6 where she isn't sleeping. I just try to really enjoy the month in between :D I get the impression that it's lying down, which puts pressure on the back of the head and changes the pressures inside the sinuses makes the jaws ache more where the teeth are coming up. Which is how come the moany moany moaning when they lie down. DD used to mess about and get in and out of bed and fall asleep sat up and all sorts! LOL. I think when the first teeth come through the gums hurt but when it's the back teeth they can get jaw ache, ear ache, sore throat, you name it. And FWIW i don't find painkillers work very well for tooth pain on ME, so maybe bubs have the same trouble?

Re the hitting - i re-direct DD. "Don't hit Mama, that hurts! Hit the cushion/sofa/whatever." I don't know what you do but i found this really helped her in the gap between being feeling the strong emotions and being able to verbalise her feelings. Like if she wasn't allowed to hit she had no way to express her emotions, but i didn't want her to think hitting people or animals was ok. My DP was always told not to hit/shout etc. (stopped rather than redirected) and he BOTTLES his feelings to this day!

Bx

No, Bec you're not late. And I also do think that it might be teething after all, although like you said, I can see nothing new or now swelling or anything. She already has four molars, but they do seem to retract somedays :dunno: if that could be possible. I would see them clearly one day and the next it would look like the gums are swollen around and over them. She does not complain when I touch it though. And no, pain meds don't help my toothache either.
I think Monday night was a fluke :cryinglaugh: She had a ok'ish night last night, woke up about 3 times, not to bad. Only bugger is that I could not sleep!!! I had an extream hayfever attack about 9pm last night and that got me nice and stuffed up in the sinusses for the whole night (still am) :( :( I woke up every hour and really could not get comfy in bed inbetween. Aw well, that's life for you ;)

Re - the hitting. Thanks for the tip. I like the idea of re-directing her. I would just tell her NO in a stern voice and say that you don't hit ppl. So getting her to maybe hit the couch or a cushion would be better. Thank you.

Yeah DD's 2 year molars (the 2nd set of molars) are giving her hell still. Now 2 are through but not fully "up" iykwim, and the other 2 are still coming through the gum. With DD i definitely think the pain is more in her jaw, neck and head than just on the gums as it was with the front teeth. SHe often holds or pulls her ears when her teeth are bothering her (every time i go to the doc i have him look in her ears! lol) or holds her head. My only experience in memory is that of 2nd teeth and wisdom teeth, both of which definitely made me feel a bit off while they came through. Hang in there hun, i really do find that she'll have a few baddish weeks in a row and then be fine for just long enough for me to get sane again. :hug:

Re: the hitting - you're welcome :) I have found in general, especially with DD being so young, that she is NEVER really being "naughty" but is always expressing an emotional or sensory need. Even if it's something she kind of knows i don't like, she NEEDS to do it (the drive to learn is so strong in us apes) and she has no impulse control to stop herself. So she might really need to hit something, or throw, or even touch water or scrunch her toes in a new texture. That doesn't mean i have to be hit, have things thrown at my head, have water poured all over my bed or sacrifice my oatmeal to her curious feet! :rofl: But i tend to try to offer a reasonable close alternative rather than stop her altogether, and if there ISN'T one (like there aren't really "safe" matches to play with) i give her something similar - a bottle of beans that rattles like the matchbox, or some short pipe-cleaners that are thin like matches to feel, or i engage her in something else entirely, "help mummy" is always a winner round here :D She loves doing the dishes (i let her wash her own picnic set) and cooking (she carries peelings to the bin etc.). Little people can be really helpful AND kept busy if you involve them in safe ways.

Having said that sometimes i turn my back - my bed is drying from a water attack right NOW :lol:

Bx

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sacrifice my oatmeal to her curious feet!

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:rofl: That is precious!!!

I can't remember getting 2nd teeth and had my wisdom :rolleyes: removed in high school. I can't imagine how it must feel like. But she is touching her ears some (dr said their fine ... I always have them checked too) and have been pulling at her hair ... that could mean her head hurts, right?

I agree with you, when dd hits, she is not naughty .. she just don't "get it" yet. I get really upset when she is on my hip and she hits me in the face .. that to me is a real no-no. I put her down straight away, but 99% she burst out in tears. DH also get the hibby-jibbies when she does that. I know it's not meant to hit in the face, it's not like she go for the face, it's just nearby, kwim??

I love having my little helper handy ... esp now that I don't want to bend to pick things up, crawl under the bed to retrieve my cell and if I have to get something out of the back of the truck ;) Child labour rules :lol:

*fingerscrossed* here's to another hopefull night!

ps. Monday's sleepthru did it's part to keep me sane ... I know she can do it and I know she won't be like this forever

ITA Nads, being hit in the face is by far the most difficult thing for me to deal with too. It shocked me the first time she did it that despite the fact she is tiny, doesn't mean it, and isn't very strong, my initial (obviously supressed) reaction when ANYONE hits me in the face is to smack them back!

When she hits my face i take her offending hand and say very sternly "hands are NOT for hitting people." and then put her down and offer her a pillow or something to hit. The rejection of being put down is harsh for some kids but it is ok IMO to put her down for a second and when she cries pick her up and say "you're sad i put you down, mama gets very sad when her face is hit!" and then comfort one another. I always think that providing a way for a kid to make it up to you is brilliant too, otheriwse they're sort of lost with the fact that they hurt you and can't take it back. If i accidentally knock DD i say sorry, stroke or rub what i hit and ask if i can give her a hug better, and she now does this to me. The most amazing thing just now is that though she DOES still hit, she will say immediately "hands a NOT FOR hitting!" so it's going in. Her hands don't yet always do what her mind tells them to, but i know she's listening and she's trying - it's like potty training, they begin by telling you AFTER they go that they need to. With discipline they begin to "get" it by recognising undersireable behaviour AFTER they do it. But it's a great first step IMO :)

It sounds like the ear and hair pulling is DEFINITELY to do with teething pain. Hang in there hun, i'm feeling you sleepless agonies!

Bx

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"you're sad i put you down, mama gets very sad when her face is hit!"

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I'm definatly using this!! I have a problem myself with getting my feelings out in words, and how to explain or handle dd sometimes. This is just gold, I love it. Thanks!!
I have a discussion with DH, just so we are both on the same page on how to handle her with the face hitting.

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it's like potty training, they begin by telling you AFTER they go that they need to.

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OMG, OT but I just have to share. It's feezing in the morning and I was in my underwear and dd looked up to me and said: "pee-pee", turned around and ran for the loo. So I (in my undies) goes after, pulls off her pants and diper and place her on the loo. She sits there, smiles at me, do a little fart and ... that's it!!! I inspect the diper and sure as poo, there is a nice warm wee in it :cryinglaugh: Me freezing my butt off, struggeling for the next 5 minutes to get a new diper on a wormy little todler. (She has started tt on her own in day-care .. I know it's early, but she tells them on her own and has done like 5 wee's on the potty in the past couple of weeks ... I'm not pushing her, but if she does it on her own, that is fine by me)

It can be difficult in the heat of the moment to express yourself. When DD woke me up by hitting me in the nose with a card book (and drawing blood!) a few months ago, all i could say (shout) for about 5 minutes was "WHY would you do that!?". Obviously she didn't mean it, didn't realise what would happen, and was really upset when i was upset, but i'd been in a deep sleep (deep enough that i didn't hear her come out of her room and into mine, which i ALWAYS do) and i was just flabbergasted. LOL.

I had a conversation with a woman who is more Gentle Discipline with me, a very civil conversation i might add! She feels that me telling DD she has hurt me or whatever when she CLEARLY isn't old enough to mean it is shaming her for being a normal kid and that the shame just disempowers her and won't help her behave differently because she will just be frozen by it, too scared to do anything in fear of being "bad". Boy did i do a lot of thinking that week! But i came to my conclusion, that i DO want to disempower her at the moment of her doing the "wrong" thing, so i can re-direct her to do the right thing. I do agree that for me i'd feel disempowered if i was told off and ONLY told off, but i try to always say a) what is wrong, b) how it makes me feel/the consequences, & c) how she can make it better. That way, yes, i am disempowering her when she does the wrong thing, BUT i immediately re-empower her to do the right thing from there, and explain why the wrong thig was wrong enough that she can learn to know to avoid it in the future. I think intention is very important too, if she hits me in the face when she's 8 there will be FAR heavier consequences (just now i just move out of range) and the "way back" with be harder. ATM i correct her behaviour all day long but it feels between us that this correction is a natural flow of unconfrontational, non-stressful learning about how it's good to act towards other people. What i hate is to see a kid shouted at and then ignored or treated "off" for a long time. With DD if i did that she would forget why i was doing it LONG before i stopped. That's why being sleep-deprived makes it all so much harder, because i want to snap at every little thing and i'm generally grumpy ALL day. Lol. It's tough this gig isn't it!?

DD is JUST starting to get it with the potty training. This morning she was playing with her wee pal, they were both in my room giggling and giggling and me and his mum were laughing listening to them and smiling at each other, and then DD comes running in, naked from the waist down (!) saying "DD did poopee!" My friend was kind of "uh-oh!" but DD says "poopee" for wee and "caca" for poop. So i went in my room and sure enough she'd taken her (dry) nappy off and done a wee in the potty :) I can't wait until i no longer have to change nappies. Of course by then i'll be thinking about the next one...

Bx