Thats IT, I can't take it anymore

I still have serious sleeping problems with Beth. I can't take it one more night....

I've read back through some past posts in here....it started off in Feb, got crapper in May and now I'm still having the same problem.

I need further and individual help here. I don't need a parenting course. I need strength and time and Mary Bloody Poppins.

Since my last posts the things that have improved are -

*Dps way of handling the kids AND their bedtime routine
*DSs behaviour

We have really pulled together on the kids and its made our relationship alot better.

Each and EVERY night I feel myself get tense at bedtime because I know what im in for. I just quit my job as I couldnt handle the sleep deprivation and full time hours.
DS will go to bed well and easily.

DD does this - SCREAMS blue murder in her cot. I mean SCREAMS. This is after the SAME routine I have been following for at least a YEAR. She can now climb out of her cot with the sides up - she fell out the other night when I left her to it for just 10 minutes to have a break. Great mothering.

Sometimes she will go to bed ok (omg how much sweeter the world seems when that happens), but without fail she will wake. If im home by myself she comes in with me. Thats fine if it means I get sleep but sometimes she just springs awake and tries to run out to the lounge room to play.
If Dp is here he can usually, after awhile get her to sleep back in her cot. She still wakes 2x a night.

Its the screaming that does my head in. Both of them are pretty loud but Beth just takes the cake - 40mins of high pitched squealing - I can't cope. I have supersensitive hearing (confirmed at a recent health check) and its like a drill going through my brain. It brings me to my knees, and it happens nearly every night.

Since I went to work it got worse. I sort of hoped daycare would tire her out a bit but NO. She just wants to be closer to me and will not go to bed unless I do.

I just want my own time - I just want to potter around at night, tidy things up for the next day. Maybe even read a book. Maybe have a shower before 11pm.

There seems to be lots of help for babies, lots. Is there anyone able to help with older children? Can Pinky be of assistance?

HAAALLPPPP!

Lulu i dont have any advice to you.. Just wanted to say you are not alone my sis had similar trouble with her toddler he even use to go to the extremes of making himself physically sick sometimes he got that upset. She use to just sit in his room reading a book until he was asleep, he eventually grew out of it when he went into a bed. I hope someone has advice to help you. I hope you get some :help: soon.......

Lulu-

im so sorry but i have absolutly no idea how to help,

i just wanted to say :hug:

I really hope you can sort out the problems

Ah Lulu, I'm so sorry! I hate it when Natty screams, though it doesn't happen too often - it's the whinging and hanging off me that happens every day (and I hate that too!).
I'm not sure what to suggest, but will have a crack at it anyway... Maybe you could try no cot (if she's climbing out of it anyway) but a mattress on the floor and a gate at the door?
Will she go to sleep with you lying next to her? This could be something else to try :dunno:
I just really empathise re the work thing and the tiredness - inevitably, Natty will have a terrible night's sleep the night before a work day, and then she'll sleep in (and I have to get up at 6 to go to work). Then, she'll wake early on my days off. It is so frustrating when you don't get your own time.
So sorry that you're doing it tough. Hope you find some helpful suggestions around here. :hug:

Thanks for the quick replies girls.

I've already tried the sitting in the room thing. It drove me nuts but I did it anyway, and I did have good success....for awhile.

Its all been a house of cards around here. See they have started daycare therefore they have brought back any number of viruses and they have both been sick on and off for WEEKS. So that threw everthing out the window big time. So of course since I have been working Im at the point of exhaustion when I get home. Then this starts. Then it gets harder to get 2 little ones to bed with they are sick. Then they both got clingier.

I get that things will blow out their routines but surely this is a part of normal, everyday life? I first thought that with Dp leaving for half the week it would have affected them, but ffs - there are FIFO families...do they have these problems too with things constantly changing?

I know I've got a handle on parenting ok? Seriously I have a 16 yr old asleep right now that never had any of these problems. No wonder I wanted 5 - I thought ALL babies were that easy.....

Fark, Im so tired.

Oh hon :hug:

No idea on what to do with sleepless toddlers, but could you try industrial headphone or earplugs? As they work on attenuating a general frequency range as well as more of the nastier higher frequencies they might at least help you tolerate the screaming if you are not in physical pain from it.

I know that this is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what your dealing with, but if you can at least make one part of it easier to deal with, then it might have a flow on effect.

Good luck sweet. :hug:

Lulu, do you have my DD's twin over there!?

You have a high needs child. I would be surprised if she didn't turn out to be in some ways gifted.

I'll tell you about my DD a wee bit. She is high needs. She is go-go-go ALL THE TIME. She needs supervision every minute or she gets into all kinds of scrapes. She has abilities beyond her understanding (i.e. CAN climb the 30foot slides for 10+ year olds in the park and has no fear, and will also let go and not think anything of it until she hits the deck). She fights sleep. If i am not there she cries. If i am there she sings, laughs, chats and will NOT sleep.

Now we go through good times and bad times, but the thing that never goes away is asleep=off and awake=on. This means that every morning and after every nap (thank goodness she still naps!) she arrives barely awake next to me, staggering about, trying to climb stairs, eat, dance, before her body is online properly and then she has a giant tantrum. I seriously think her duvet is off and her feet on the floor BEFORE she's awake. She doesn't lie peacefully in bed. Either she falls asleep when her head hits the pillow or she cries, gets up or otherwise fights sleep. There is no peace IN her, and i actually practice deep breathing with her most days, to try to teach her how to find a calm place. Even other friends with toddlers her age have noticed how crazy wild she is.

My DD is sensitive, and i bet yours it too. ABSOLUTELY the home situation will have been making a difference, and does XP's changing work routine and visitation have an effoct OH MY GOD YES! For a MONTH after his new routine began we didn't have a full night's sleep. And on the occasions she got in with me she would be saying in her sleep "dada go 'way? Don't go mama!" and tossing and turning. It was a hard time for her, and she's only now just beginning to come through it. His routine is 4 days on, 4 days off, and he stays away when he's on, so we only see him half the week. DP comes over twice a week, regularly, but that is a total mismatch when superimposed of dada's week. And my baby is insecure. If your DD is like mine i'd be really surprised if she wasn't all over the place with the changes in routines going on. Some kids ARE very stable inside, and can cope very well with change, but others cannot. I couldn't, XP couldn't, DD can't. I can remember my mummy being my rock to cling to. I really needed that as a kid. Something inside me felt like without that place to hang on i would fly away. The whole world sort of rushed at and through and over me and i felt like i'd be swept away. I can still get that way. INterestingly enough i have recently learned that a lot of what i felt was towards the autism spectrum, and though i relate fine to others and can communicate and empathise so i'm not ON the spectrum, my dad is and he and i are very alike in some ways.

I digress (as usual). Can homelife be causing this? Yes. Do other families with custodial challenges and changes suffer this effect? Absolutely! You are NOT alone!!!

Tips? Well, nothing i do makes much difference, she seems to go through periods of really needing me and periods of it being fine. I stick to keeping the routine as rigid as possible, even when it feels like it's not working. I warn her it's nearly bath/showertime when there's 3-5 minutes to go. I bath/shower her. I wash her hair if i'm going to, i tend to sit on the lid of the loo seat and read or sing or chat or all three. She brushes her teeth. I take her out and wrap her in the towel and re-brush her teeth. I carry her into the bedroom and put her nappy and PJ's on her. We choose 3 stories. I get into bed with her (she's in a big bed- that helped! I moved her to a single bed and made a big deal of buying her a new pillow and duvet and sheets to go on them, and we talked about her big-girl bed for a while. I left the cot up in her room for a few weeks while she was transitioning and then one day i took it down and showed her it in the wardrobe where it's storing just now, and she definitely slept better afterwards - she thrashes about a lot and kept banging bits of herself off the bars) and cuddle her in and we read the three stories. I let her ask questions and chat about the stories if she needs to. After the 3 stories there is a book with 4 songs (rock-a-bye-baby, sleep baby sleep, twinkle twinkle, brahms lullaby) which we sing, then i sometimes, if requested, sing her German lullaby. Then i kiss and snuggle her and say good night and i leave.

On the nights she gets up, i say "it's bedtime honey" and put her back to bed, kiss and cnuggle her and leave. Repeating as necessary (my record in one night is 18 times). On the nights she screams i go back in and say "hey hey hey!? What's wrong darlin!? it's BEDtime!" and kiss and snuggle her. I often lay with her until she's calm again. If she chats i say night night and leave. If she's quiet but not sleeping i tell her i'm going and she will say "ok" and then i go. If she cries when i say i'm leaving i still leave, i tell her it's bedtime and i go. I walk to the kitchen window, which is about 13metres, and if she's still crying i turn right around and go back. Reapeating as necessary (my record is 9 times). Each time i go back i stay until she's settled.

Probably you've tried all this, and probably it hasn't worked, but it doesn't always work for me either. I have decided that consistency is the best i can give her and that though it is tempting to assume it's my parenting causing the problem, if what i'm doing works for 4 months and then doesn't it's unlikely it took her that long to get a "bad habit" from my actions.

I really think that with you now at home all the time she will be doing MUCH better in a few weeks. Put the proportion of time there's been upheaval in perspective with her life - my DD has had massive upheaval for a QUARTER of her life. It will take a lot of consistency for me to soothe that out, especially when there are upheavals and challenges to come (moving in with DP, new babies etc.). I read you telling another mama you tend to be like a bull at a gate with things - you do not NEED to "fix" this, you just need to be there for her through it, and there WILL be a through it. CHildhood is a journey, not a destination.

Much love

Bx

Isla hates her cot. Do you think that maybe it may help putting her in her own big bed?
I had the same issues getting Isla to sleep if I put her in her cot. But I toss that our of teh room & put a single bed int here & while its still a working prgress to get her to go off to sleep with out fuss. The fuss is now her chatting away & playing.

Just a thought...

She is still in my room!!! I chose not to reno the place when I got here as I was preg and couldnt face it - now the $$$ for the extension are gone so she is still stuck in with me :redface:.

I might muck around with the beds today, my room is big enough for a single bed as well and the teenrager want the spare double bed....

Isla is in our room also, Or room is just big enough to have her in there also.
Our bed in in the middle onthe wall with about a foot & half on DHs side to walk up the side of but enough room for the single bed & about 3 feet between that & our bed on our side.
I wanted to put her in the room just before our bedroom as its bit like a walk though wardrobe. Hard to explain but where our built in is, was orginally a room. Our bedroom was once the back venrandah atone point that got closed it to make 3 more rooms across the back of the house. But the single bed is just a smidge to long to put in in there & still be able to open & close the door.
So now the cot is in the that bit of the room which I am thinking of just taking down as the baby isn't likely to use it. I just toss clean clothes in there LOL

eta - why the blushing smiley, there is no shame in her being in your room still.

etaa - You know, it just may work for you. Reason I say is Isla is also on one of the big boys beds & they are on the spare double LOL. Evan & glenn had pushed their beds together so they could sleep together so I just put the double in their room instead.

I could put Isla in the spare room, but that just means I have further to go at night when she wakes.

Lulu :comfort: I can feel your angst when I read that.

I think it might be worth trying a single bed for her. Caleb is quite often unsettled at bed time and instead of taking him in our bed, I get in his bed with him. It can sometimes take an hour but I can get him off to sleep eventually and then sneak off back to my own bed. He will wake up again some nights and I settle him in his own bed again.
We can't do the co-sleep thing as I'm too light a sleeper to get a proper rest and the little blighter ends up sideways, kicking me in the boobs if I do.

:hug:

Oh Lulu, you're having a tough time of it. If she's a sensitive child, then she's probably also picking up on you... :hug:

Don't have any advice, but it so drives me mad when DD keeps me up/gets me up/won't go to sleep that I can only imagine your pain of going through it every night!

(Oh, I do have one thing - DD is in a bed and has the freedom to come and go into our bed as she pleases and that definitely helped her settle better. She still comes in every night between us, but it went from midnight to now being closer to 5am for a bf. And if she won't go back to sleep at any stage she knows I put her back in her bed. She isn't in the same room but she runs around in the dark like she's got night vision!).

u poor thing. screaming does my head in aswell lol. maybe its time to get her out the cot and into her big girl bed?

Oh wow, thanks for all of this support.

Hoobs, I dont know what happened but I didn't see your post until just now (?). I ended up quitting the stupid job so I can ease off on the "omg I gotta get some sleep" thoughts, and that is making a huge difference to my headspace.

For the last few nights I have just let her be a little. Mitch (who is actually the high maintenance one :doh:) is sick and going to bed a little easier so I put him in first (he is going to object to going to bed before her soon but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it), then do my pottering around with Beth behind me. I cant get the bed in until Dp comes over tomorrow, but until then I've left the side of the cot down and when she gets out I just walk her back in................and I will just keep doing that until.

Its so much easier to hear Im not the only one going through these shenanigans :rolleyes:

Thanks again..

P.S - what is it with kids having to sleep across the bed???? MY boobs get a workout too Raven..

:

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P.S - what is it with kids having to sleep across the bed???? MY boobs get a workout too Raven..

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Or like a cross, or a swastika, or snoring in your ear, or etc etc etc :)

Lulu2, hope this doesn`t seem silly to you,but does dd,drink any cows milk before going to bed,we had months of screaming and tantrums,in and out of bed,but our 2 year old complained of a sore tummy,to cut the story short he has been diagnosed lactose intolorance,since switching him over to soya milk,he goes to bed without any dramas,and all the sreaming has gone,a totally different child,not sure if this helps you but thought i would share our story with you,good luck hope everything settles down for you hun :goodluck:

Ah Lulu, it's OK, sleep expert Ryn will sort you out!

No protein for dinner, carbs only. This will result in better sleep (until your child realises what you're doing and eats protein only for dinner - but then we can blame you for the bad diet).

Find a place that does result in sleep. So that's a five-hour drive around the block every night to create good sleep-time associations. All your fault about global warming, price of fuel and the fact you're now skint.

Routine is important. Start the wind-down routine at 3pm (for a 7pm bedtime) and stick to it rigidly. So no, you can't go to the park at 3.05 because it's too exciting. DO NOT let your child see a duck/tractor because then it's your fault they won't sleep, you should monitor their vision.

Do not co-sleep. If it's not the breasts then it's the bladder and you'll have to leave to go to the loo ALL FRIGGING NIGHT. Instead buy a blow-up doll, put it in your clothes from the day and let that be kicked. I'm about to head down this path - better let DH know in advance JIC LMAO.

If all else fails, it's your fault. Works for me. Or rather, would work for me if DS let it and I stuck to it. LOL. But the low-protein evening meal, gentle routine for a good hour before bed (eg a baby jigsaw rather than tag after dinner) and laughter before bed is good (laughter releases melatonin, the night time sleep hormone). So if DS wants to play boo with his shadow after his bath and kills himself laughing, I'm up a bit longer with him but he sleeps a bit better. We have a routine of slow songs and stories and that does help a lot.

Lulu,
I feel for you, it took ages for my daughter to learn to sleep through the night with screaming for hours on end before passing out from being so exhausted.
I remember one night, after about 6-7 sleepless nights I passed out from exhaution while she kept screaming.

I tried behaviour programs but nothing worked, i followed everyones advise but none of that worked. I was told to put her on medication but I didn't like the idea of that. In the end I went to a health food store and got hold of some natural medication to try. Between useing relaxing oils and natural medications she is a lot better than she used to be.

Good Luck

Sjl

OMG, shes driving me batty!!!

So we have the big bed up, all decked out. She has been talking about it for days...and its made no difference at all. Ok OK its not going to happen overnight....but WHY NOT????

Sj, pluurleeease tell what it was that worked for you....I had some half-assed idea about using Brauers calm on her - is that what you used??

Lulu when you work out what to do please tell me!! I dread bed time cause I have to sit in DSs room for anything up to 90 minutes while he falls asleep then he wakes up crying aytime from midnight to at best 4am and comes in with us where he proceeds to kick the cr@p out of both of us. I never had this much trouble with the 2 girls and I am at my wits end as you sound liek you are too.

Im sure its not supposed to be this hard...but you know what makes it harder?

Her stupid fricken father just has her a fricken sandwich when she came into the kitchen a minute ago. What happened to the PLAN??? Just walk her back to bed, no talking, no matter how many times she gets up.


Grrrr and I have a teenager throwing up atm too :wall:

Men!!

god, It takes a while for the men to get the routine thing happening also.
Don't expect it to happen in one night, I know it would be great if it would. But Isla has been a working progress over the last month or so. I gave each stage a week before movingon to the next. So it was aweek, (probably more for this bit) of lettingher fall asleep next to me in my bed then moving her to hers. Bringing her back to mine when she woke during the night. then it was a week of putting her in her bed & laying with her till she stoped screaming & carrying on about being in daddys bed (why is all of a sudden daddys bed??) she would get up, try to get out of the bed, hit me, scream & cry & eventually give in & come lie with me & fall asleep. I would still bring her back to my bed when she cried through the night.
Then it was a week of nice & calm, happy to lay with me in her bed till she was asleep, little fuss, but lots of chatting. comforting her in her bed if she woke ( up to 3 times a night!)
then a week of me sitting right next to the pillow on the floor beside her, still comforting her when she woke but in her bed.
Im now onto sitting by the bed but not right next to it & reducing the amount of water she has in her sippy cup. As I think she was waking everytime she wee'd. Her nappy is soaked by morning & its a bit much! So between the current thing she has about my hair & her hair & the more dink requests she is getting there. My aim is to be able to take her to bed & feed the baby if I need too & know she will stay in her bed & go to sleep with me in the room & leaving the room if I need to with out her getting up & following.
I have had a few times I have got up & said I will be right back stay there & surprisingly she stayed till I came back.

Baby steps is the key.
OH & if you can, turn the house off. No point getting up if everyone else has gone to bed.

I admit that she sleeps WAAAAY better for me than for XP, and that she'd sleep WAY less well for me if he was here doing bedtime more than once or twice a week. When i put her to bed i am out of her room by 8.40pm at latest. He is still in there reading stories at 9.40pm....

With the 2 beds i gave her a choice every night "Big bed or wee bed?" - if she went in the cot i sat on the floor next to her to read stories, if she went in the big bed she got to cuddle up with me. She preferred the cuddle up (i'm not mean - her cot was only big enough for her, it was a little IKEA one, there was nowhere else TO cudle up but the big bed!). When she was mainly asking for the big bed i put the cot away. When she asked to sleep in it i showed her it, dismantled, and said "oh, it's all taken apart, you can't sleep there now!" and she quite happily went to the big bed. Took about 4 months to fully transition, though i chucked a delay in because i was having friends come to stay and it was handy to have the cot and bed there for them (had kids with them).

Bx

Lu, I took DS to the homeopath and that was an overnight wonder thing... until we stuffed it up. Now DS is a lot better than he was, but not as good as before we messed him up (we had three months of sleeping through every night - now it's only once or twice a week and one AWFUL night a week). It's worth looking into talking to people in "alternative" places as it can work in some cases.

Lulu,
I was told different things work differently for everyone, so give anything a try.

The one that worked for my daughter is Weleda relaxing drops.

Another thing i thought of which may or may not be helpful, my cousin had a lot of probs getting her daughter to sleep and they worked out they couldn't bath her at night because that hyped her up, but then came along baby number 2 and he had to be bathed at night or he wouldn't settle.

Another thing, have you head of the Queen Elizabeth Centre?? it is a facility in dandenong (I think), they can possibly give you some help. I found out about it after I had started getting my girls sleep patterns under control.

Good Luck
Sjl

:hug: The whole sleep thing just never seems to end. If you are consistent it does get better. It may not be wonderful and easy every night, but it does improve.

We have had so many ups and downs with Miss 3 and sleep. She is getting better though. We have found that we need to be tight with our routine, if we let things go too long it will fall apart. There was a tendency for us to lengthen the time between bath and bed when she would have her milk. Either we would be watching TV or DH would be online gaming. Often it takes both of us to prompt each other to keep on top of it. DH does the teeth brushing, getting her in bed and reading the first few books. Then I will go in after a bit of a wait. Sometimes she will be asleep, other times she will be yelling out for me. I read her a couple of books making sure I warn about how many are left. Then I will leave with some excuse of checking on Evie, or just being firm that it is time for sleep and I will check on her later. Often she will sit there and read till she goes to sleep, the odd time I will have to go in and read till she goes to sleep. She probably takes longer to get to sleep than some "experts" would like, but she gets there. Oh and she does wake some nights. She is still so hyped before bed, she has so much energy, it is amazing really that she does go to sleep.

To be honest I still hate bedtimes, as sometimes it will all go to hell and there will be lots of tears. :pray: that bubs is much better than her sister, she seems to be so far.