school councellor suggests stopping visits

My DD has just turned 10, her Dad left us before she turned 2.

I have been lucky enough to remarry a lovely man who has raised DD like his own, he has been with us since she was around 3.

I went to Emmas school councellor at the start of the year as i was concerned about her moods when she was coming home after her weekends with her dad, she would often just start crying over nothing etc. AS it turns out her Dad would end up leaving her with his MUm and go of and spend the night with his partner leaving my DD waiting the next morning for him to return.

Anyway Tuesday the school ring and ask if i can come in for a chat that afternoon. The councillor has suggested/recommended that DD no longer see her dad, she stressed this is something that they normally do not like to do, but my DD has been deeply emotionally hurt and every fortnight she goes to him he hurts her again, she has said this has affected her very deeply, infact she has never seen a child become so upset and continully cry each session, she is not getting better if anything she is becoming worse. For my DDS emotional well being it would be better if she didnt go to her Dads house.

We do not have a court order saying that she has to visit him , infact i have full custody according to child support as he only has her one night a fortnight or month.
So do i just stop her from going and wait to see what he does, then fight him. I have always known my DD gets hurt but just not this badly, he has moved on with his life and left her behind, today is her 10th birthday and he didnt even call her

So where do i go from here, i was thinking of telling his mother that she can come take DD for a visit but she wont be staying anymore.

Tan

I would give the counsellor XP's number and letting them break the news of the recommendation, and then follow it up by telling him he needs to either pull his socks up HARD and be a father to her, or step out of her life. The fact that he hasn't even called on her birthday (my XP takes DD's birthdays off work and shows up at 8am to do presents, AND he stays with us on Christmas Eve to be there for Christmas morning....) is very revealing of his interest ATM. Do keep in touch with his mum, it's likely she's quite attached to your DD, especially as she's doing so much of the care.

As an aside WTF! What kind of man can't give up his sex life ONCE A FORTNIGHT for his CHILD?

Bx

oh tan, how awful for your DD.

Mine now rarely goes to visit her dad - she doesnt want to stay the night and she has told him this. This whole year I think she slept there... 3 times?

Is it a very regular thing, or do you always contact each other to confirm? I used to find that I was always chasing up x to see if he was having her - stopped doing that and now we only hear from him every so often. Like your DD, mine comes home upset and says she doesnt want to go there anymore (she hates her step brother).....

Because I now leave it up to him to confirm, she probably goes for a day visit every 4-6 weeks, but doesnt stay overnight. She is much much happier that way.

GL

oh p s- unless he gets a court order to take her, he can't ;)

get the counsellor to put their recommendation in writing, then arrange mediation with your XP through family relationships au or something similar. get it put in writing via a parenting plan that you are to have 100% custody and WHY so that he can't come back in six months and give you grief.

if you want to get advice that is more technical, contact the family relationships advice line - they have advisors who can look at your actual circs and help you out there. i wouldn't NOT just send your DD as he can cause you all grief as you are "witholding" his child..

How heartbreaking for you both, its just awful.

Have a chat with DD and let her know she doesn't have to go, let the stupid man fight for visitation (but it doesn't sound like he will - the ahole). Did the councellor give you any help with what to say to her about it?

Will the councellor write a letter giving his recommendation? If so, maybe you can post it off to the mother to explain why you are stopping the visits to HIM, but not her?

Post a picture up of him, then if any BB girls recognize him, they can kick him in the gonads for you xoxoxoxoxo

Lulu he chooses to see his partner instead of spending time with his beautiful daughter when he only GETS to see her 20ish times a year. I doubt he even HAS gonads....

Bx

It sounds like an awful situation & really men need a child responsibility chip implanted sometimes.

My sisters Xp sounds similar, can't decide if he wants to see the kids or not :rolleyes: they see his mum more regularly then him.

Anyway... can you speak to the counsellor again? cause I think if you stop all visitation it could cause more grief, could you discuss with the counsellor the pro's & con's of day visits for a few hours, once a month, every few weeks? Does your DD like her xp's mum, could that become a semi regular thing so instead of going with dad & being hurt when she get's dumped her visit is with her grandmother IYKWIM?

I really hope things improve & please give your DD some extra big hugs from us

Good point Hoobley....hhhmmm

I suppose a pooey nappy to the head might be satisfying if no nuts can be located. Might be worth a kick to check first though.

thanks for your support ladies,

just to answer a few questions :


Kittn3 : he never contacts us, if anyone rings its his MUm to arrange weekend visits, this has been happening for the last 3 years and gradually got worse.

Njd: we have been working with him about his visits for the last year, my DD wrote him a letter while with the councilor, then we posted it to him, it was basically her telling him she loved him and was feeling hurt that he wouldnt spend time with her, DD saw the letter open on the kitchen table but it was never spoken about.
I will be telling her Nana that she is most welcome to come visit DD and to take her out on day trips etc, but she will no longer be sleeping, we will see what her dad does about it, i have a feeling he will just let it slide as it will be easier for him.

I will arrange a meeting with the councilor again to see if she can put her findings in writing , then i will go see my lawyer again, he told me i can stop visits if it is doing emotional or physical damage and frankly it is doing both.

I had a good talk to him a yr ago, I told him he needed to step up and start seeing her and spending time with her or as she got older she wouldnt want anything to do with him, he said yeah and then did nothing. I have put up with his half ars88d efforts for 8 yrs now and my poor DD has suffered for this long i think enough is enough . How many chances can you give.

You are doing the right thing Tania - and you always have when it comes to access to your baby (!) girl. Whatever you do from here will be the right thing too.

xoxoxoxoxoxox

If the school is actually saying this it must be pretty serious as usually schools won't stick their necks out in this kind of thing.
I would do as the other wise ladies have suggested and keep her home or let her visit his mother for day visits.

My DP is in a similar circumstance with his ex (they have 2 kids 5, 2.5 yrs between them).

In our defence I will say that the ex isn't very good at handling life in general on her own as she's always had someone to do everything for her. She visits long lost friends out of the blue and leaves the kids with them so she can go out with her new man (and then is uncontactable when the friend tries to call her and tell her 'E' is sick). 'E' has learning difficulties (like her mother) and needs special attention in school - but to our knowledge nothing has been diagnosed.

Since being with her new man they have lodged a complaint at our work about DP - and due to where we work - we were not able to make face to face contact with the ex as it could complicate the investigation of the complaint. She never answers the phone, rarely returns msgs, we've sent registered mail and still haven't heard back from her.

It's been 7 mths since we've seen the kids and due to shift work - DP only has one weekend off in 6 weeks. So not a lot of time, but it's time all the same. There are also times when on school holidays he can spend mornings with them before he goes to work and phone calls etc. I know it's not a lot - but it's all he can do.

Last Thursday the ex answered her phone and said 'E' is getting counselling (over their break up) and the counsellor doesn't think one weekend in 6 is good enough - so we won't be able to see the kids over Xmas (and E's b'day which is just before new year). I am in doubt over whether the counsellor even exists.

We caught up with DP's mate Thursday evening who saw the ex at the shopping centre about 6-7 mths pregnant. And 'E' told the mate that 'Dad is dead'. Please tell me no counsellor would tell a child their father is dead, when it is not the case :o...I am thinking the ex can't handle the situation and to simplify her life is keeping my DP from seeing the kids.....


Tan - as already suggested I'd have the counsellor send a letter to that effect to the ex, and see what he does from there, but I'd certainly still let the day trips with Nan continue...It is a bit sad that in the time he is able to spend with DD that he goes elsewhere and, um...yeah. :redface:

Thanks for posting this topic. It has made me think twice about the whole 'parenting order' thing - as if this counsellor (in our situation does exist) they could be bought in as a witness which could go against us (as your lawyer said) and then we'd legally have no rights to see the kids.
The only way we could have them more is if they stayed home with me while DP went to work (which is just as good as DD being left with her nan i guess??)....:rolleyes:

Hi all just an update.
This weekend DD went to her Nanas for a day visit as i had promised, she had not been there 2 hours when the phone rang with her Nana asking me to let her sleep over. I said NO. That was all good and well she said she wouldnt mention it to DD , well when DD got home she said how her Nana had kept on at her to ring me and ask to sleep, thn her Dad started on her asking when she could come and stay at his partners again . Dd said im not going there again after she yelled at me for no reason and yelled at Nana in front of everyone. To which her dad replies ah well then you cant see your half sister.
WTF are they thinking saying this to a 10 yr old girl,grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr just makes me feel better about my decision.

Oh and ex dropped her off and picked her up and not once asked me why she couldnt sleep or when he would see her again.

What a nasty piece of work, both of them. Glad you're having fun now. And even more glad that Emma can stand up for herself. Good on her.

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My DD has just turned 10, her Dad left us before she turned 2.

I have been lucky enough to remarry a lovely man who has raised DD like his own, he has been with us since she was around 3.

I went to Emmas school councellor at the start of the year as i was concerned about her moods when she was coming home after her weekends with her dad, she would often just start crying over nothing etc. AS it turns out her Dad would end up leaving her with his MUm and go of and spend the night with his partner leaving my DD waiting the next morning for him to return.

Tan

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Can I tell you that EXACTLY the same situation happened to me when I was the same age as your DD. I never saw a counsellor though and I did have a sister 2 yrs older than me that used to come with me to dads.

I used to hate going to dads as we would just go to grandma's house and dad wouldnt spend time with us only his partner at the time. We called her the dragon. She was not nice to us and wouldnt let us play with anything. I will never forget after her marrying my dad she tried to make me call her mum and one night she wouldnt let me go to sleep until I called her mum! What kind of deranged person does that to a child! We saw her pour hot coffee all over my dad once and I really think she had a few screws missing from her brain. (My dad is no longer married to her by the way).

Anyway...we kept seeing dad for weekend visits every second weekend as the court ordered but when we reached high school, my sister and I kind of stopped going. It was easier to say no then as we had things on at friends houses and other commitments so lots of excuses.

it is great that your daughter is opening up to you about what is going on around at her dad's house. You and your partner must be doing a fantastic job raising her.

As for suggestions as to what to do, if you are on speaking terms with your ex, I would say to him that he can take DD out for lunch or to the movies and then drop her home again. Until your DD is comfortable with her dad and he builds some trust back up with her I would not allow them to have her overnight.

It may even be worth giving DD a mobile (one that she can only call your number on) so that she can let you know if she is feeling hassled or something.

I hope this has helped in some way. Big :hug: to you and your daughter.

Leesa- get a copy of this in writing from the counsellor or ring the school if its a school counsellor. Both parents have a right to the information.

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Leesa- get a copy of this in writing from the counsellor or ring the school if its a school counsellor. Both parents have a right to the information.

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I wish we could Ali, unfortunately DP's ex wouldn't tell him where the counsellor is located or anything - and now she just doesn't answer her mobile or return calls / messages when DP does call (to say Happy Birthday to his eldest DD last Tuesday...). Sad situation.

My ex-stepmum (the dragon) is exactly like that! We didnt see or hear from my half brother for about 6mths as she wouldnt answer phone, etc. Such childish behaviour.

She has probably made up the whole counsellor thing too.

:

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I wish we could Ali, unfortunately DP's ex wouldn't tell him where the counsellor is located or anything - and now she just doesn't answer her mobile or return calls / messages when DP does call (to say Happy Birthday to his eldest DD last Tuesday...). Sad situation.

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Contact the school, you have a right to have copies of everything the mother gets from the school. We send out copies of reports to all non custodial parents at our school, not via the other parent as they may not give them to them. We also send out newsletters etc too so the non custodial p knows whats happening at the school.

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I wish we could Ali, unfortunately DP's ex wouldn't tell him where the counsellor is located or anything - and now she just doesn't answer her mobile or return calls / messages when DP does call (to say Happy Birthday to his eldest DD last Tuesday...). Sad situation.

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in this situation, i'd be trying to arrange mediation through family relationships or something similar - if she doesn't show. you can get a certificate to go to court and fight for access via a court order - if she doesn't comply, she's in contempt of court. if there is REALLY evidence from counsellors, she'll have to provide it at mediation or court to get the orders for her kwim? it's not ideal, but it will at least give you this so-called evidence... i think having you care for you step daughters while their dad works is completely different to Tan's DD being looked after over night by Nan while her dad goes off to visit his GF - if he's a shift worker, and you could work out access weekends to coincide with night shift, at least he'd still have periods during the day that he can spend with them - he's not abandoning them, he's working to provide for them (cos i'm pretty sure he'd still be paying child support even though he doesn't see his kids!!) - very different to running off ALL night for a shag!

Ali - I don't believe the counsellor exsists either. The lady shows little interest in the kids at the best of times, so I can't imagine her being pulled away from her social activites to take one of the kids to a counsellor (she can't even get the kids to the immunisation clinic - and have both missed out on their 18mth and 4 yr old shots)....I hope I'm not coming across as overly *****y :redface:

Briggsys girl - DP will be going the court line for a parenting order - although with her being pregnant 6-7 mths ish (we've heard) I wonder if she can put proceedings on hold so she doesnt 'stress out' (just to put a spanner in the works)??

Mrsmac - the ex won't even tell DP where the eldest DD is going to school, so unfortunately that option is out.

It's so bizarre how last year (when she had no man and was still living in their 'family' house still being financially dependent on DP for paying the mortgage) she was always saying 'look, they're you're kids too and I'll never let you stop seeing them' - now she has a man she certainly has changed her tune...I know they're always difficult situations with ex's, new families, step kids etc - but it seems so unfair that we genuinely have an interest in the kids and want to see them - and every avenue we have tried say 'well it's up to the mother and what she'll allow'....! So yeah, she's forced our hand to go to court...

I would contact the department of Education and tell them the situation. See if they can let you know which school.

leesa - her pg shouldn't stop interim orders being put in place - if she has this evidence, she has nothing to worry about, if she doesn't, you should be able to get something in place until after her baby is born and she wants to go back to court. they won't disadvantage the children - it's ALL about the children now...

Leesa, councellor or not I agree that one weekend in 6 isn't enough. You partner needs to see them more and if that means spending mornings with them during the week, or changing jobs or shifts to facilitate more time, it should be done. I wouldn't be happy with that at all. My kids would be heartbroken to see their dad so little.

Lulu, we agree - one in six weekends isn't much - but DP wouldn't consider leaving the job he's in, nor would I want him too. Due to the distance between where we live and they live it's impossible to get the eldest girl to school without waking all the kids / babies up at 6am.
I work a day shift in our job and I've offered to look after them so we can have them every third weekend, but DP doesn't want me to - as I'd be busy enough with our one year old, and having a bun on the way.
As one is school age and one is not, he doesn't want to see one - and not the other (as in the morning suggestion) as it wouldn't be fair.
I rarely talk about this troubling situation for fear we'll get bagged for not being able to see the kids enough...But thanks for your opinion.

MrsMac - That may be a darn good idea, contact DECS...I'll pass that onto DP! Tanx!

Briggsy - any idea on how long the orders could take to organise / set up?

no idea hun - give family relationships advice line a call - they'll get you onto a parenting advisor who will be able to help you with more specifics

Great - thanks Briggsy!

I think its a fair enough statement though, I'm not meaning to bag you, but whatever the situation, trying to maintain a decent relationship with kids with so little time isn't going to be easy.
It must be a fantastic job to want to risk your relationship with your children for it, especially if you know this chick to be a fruit loop (who the hell tells children that their father is dead???). You need to be able to extend your connection with these kids even further so not only do they know that (sick) information is not true, but so they have a sense of normality for at least some of the time.
At the very worst you might have to change your jobs around (hey, I dunno the real circumstances) - and for that you could change so much for these children, you could be the refuge from the crap they must have to deal with on a daily basis. You could be there for them, by just being there.

As much as I hate saying this - I have to give credit to my exH. His wife was a feckin fruit loop, would shack up with anyone, move interstate at the drop of a hat yadda yadda yadda :wall:. ExH would travel as far, he would do what he had to, to maintain the consistency with is son, he never wanted him to think that her life was NORMAL and that's what he had to look forward to. I know how precious that time was to SDS, he could relax, he could be himself and as soon as he could - he ran straight to his dads to live for good....and they all lived happily ever after.

I understand I've probably offended the crap out of you, but I don't mean to. You don't have to respond to this, I'm not demanding answers. Just giving you a different perspective.

xoxoxoxo

Hi Ladies just thought id update you as i saw the post again.

Funnily enough i had a long hard talk to exs MUm, she understood where i was coming from and said she was fine as long as she could still see DD.

Well all the fun began again this week.
DD went to visit her Dad and his mum for Christmas, I thought being Christmas its only fair that they have a day with her, well her Dad took her out to the beach for the day. She said she had fun but that Nana and Dad kept telling her to ring me and ask to sleep, she told them no she wasnt allowed to sleep.
Her dad then asked her if she would be allowed to go see his partner, when DD said No he replied "ah well you wont ever get to see your halfsister". WTF.....
Why would you say this to a 10 yr old.


Anyway his Mum called yesterday and spoke to DD and asked what time she could pick her up, when DD said she wasnt coming her Nana replied oh your Dad will be sad though.
Again WTF.

So today she rings again and speaks to me ( i was in the shower yesterday)
I say to her I had this conversation with you and told you she would not be coming anymore, she tells me how EX has improved. WTF he has DD for one day and takes her out and im supposed to see that as improving. I tell her i dont think so. I also tell her that when DD comes to visit they should all keep their mouths shut and just enjoy her instead of the emotional blackmail. I state that if this continues i will stop all contact.

Argggggg I can not believe this family.

a) ex never rings to arrange visists, he gets his MUm too

b) I have spoke to his MUm and she agreed

c) they forget and think i will just let them do what they want.

d) my poor darling DD is suffering and is made to feel guilty for not going to see her Dad.

It's just not right. Especially after you talked to the mother.

They know what you want, they probably know its the right thing to do, but they want their own way no matter what and will more than likely hassle you and DD until they get sick of it :wall:

Does the mother defend her son?? Does she agree with what he does?

heres my perspective as a child who doesnt speak to my dad. hes selfish and not there for me but is with my 2 sisters.
he always critises me, and he didnt even contact me on xmas or my 21st birthday. he even got married without tell us till get back from honeymoon..he knows i wont listen to his whinges about how bad my life is...i might be unwell and on morphie - he doesnt care..but i do have a caring,loving dp, a brilliat mother and sisters and brother and adorable nieces and nephews...hes divorced now, his daughters dont really bother with him and i cant stand him.
sorry what im trying to say is she will and i think already does see him for what he is. and she will end up not seeing him at all through his neglect of her...not physically i mean mentally.
she sounds like a bright girl and if this is hurting her id stop her seeing him. hes a div if he cant even spend time with his precious daughter then hes losing out because she will resent and reject him.
hope its gets sorted soon.
love rach xxxxx

Lulu yes Ex Mil defends her son, but she says she doesnt agre with him and has had words with him.

Today i took my daughter around to visit her Nana, I left her alone there for a few hours as the boys were getting restless. First i get a phone call from DD asking if she can sleep the night, I had to say no as she has a dentist appointment tomorrow morning . Then MIl brings her home, and she starts on me asking me if DD is coming over this weekend cause her Dad is sad and misses her, I say no. She says oh he knows the rules now, I tell her he has known the rules for 8 yrs. She then says cant he have a second chance how can he prove himself. I tell her he should have thought about that first, that this is not about a dog or a toy but MY CHILD. I tell her he is a big grown man now same age as me so he can deal with it like i have to. If he wants to discuss it he can contact me. I will talk to ex MIL about her seeing DD but not about ex. He has to grow up and make contact instead of hiding behind his MUmmy.

Grrrrrrrrrr once again what could have and should have been a good day out for my DD gets ruined by silly adults.

I think you did and said absolutely the right thing Tan. It's a shame for MIL because she obviously wants to see her granddaughter and sounds like a decent sort but it's up to your ex to sort out his own access. And he should just get off his butt and do the right thing - he's had long enough to get his act together.

8 years is chances enough!

i agree...8 years of this cr@ap is not fair on your dd or your own family.
i really he grows up soon and bes a man xxx