No respite until next year.....

If you can believe it, things have gotten even worse with Beths sleep.

Our bedtime routine is perfect. She is sleepy and will fall asleep on the boob :rolleyes:, the moment she realizes she is in bed all hell breaks loose. I've tried everything, putting her to bed awake and reading 10 stories, quiet times every night etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. She IS tired, she needs sleep and she will sleep till 9-10am next morning. I was letting her sleep in to catch up but I see thats making things worse as NOW she won't go to sleep until 11PM at least.
Once she realizes whatever we are doing is heading to sleep time, she goes batty - kicking screaming, pulling my hair, flying headbutts THE WORKS.

She sleeps fine during the day, she puts herself up on the couch with a blanket and off she goes. When I stop her sleeping she goes rancid. When she wakes up she is rancid, because I cant let her sleep for 4 hours during the day. Actually she only had 30 mins yesterday and she is still going nuts despite being up till 12.30am the night before
If she sat up quietly reading books or something it wouldn't be so bad, but you can see her synapses are totally misfiring and she trashes the place, jumps on her sleeping brother aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :o

Last night Mitch had a temp of 40.3 and I couldn't bring it down, all the while Beth is running amok and carrying on. Belle was here and helped out but I didn't know what I would do if I had to race him up to the hospital.

So I called the Queen Elizabeth Centre and I can't even get an assessment phone interview until 20th January! OMG. I've run out of ideas, we are in the middle of a vicious cycle that I am unable to break. I'm ok once the sun rises even if I haven't slept enough but once evening falls I'm a zombie. I'm even more sensitive to noise when I'm overtired so even a slightly raised voice does my head in though.

I am taking Mitch to the Drs today and will ask for a Paed referral for her, then I'm off to the shops for a little cd player, some headphones and some story/music cds AND some calm drops (Yes, I even tried the dreaded Phenergan once or twice and it make NO DIFFERENCE to her). Please, please work.....

Just needed to get this out - I know there are no answers.

ohhh lulu, sounds bad. if you're thinking of going to a sleep school have you tried the koo wee rup one?

Lulu, massive hugs :hug: I wish, wish, wish I could offer you something to help (you always have so much to offer other people). I've got nothing. Just, thinking of you, it seems so inadequate.

Big Hugs Chick
I wish I could help but wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you!

Oh hun. I can sense how much this is wearing you down :hug: Can you get xDp over on the odd night to help out with the night routine, even if just to keep Mitch amused and get him to bed while you deal with Beth - or could he even help out with Beth? Next year is such a long time till you can get anything done, and they will all be closed for most of January anyway I suppose too.

Yeah I got no ideas either :hug:

And even if I had some suggestions - you would have tried them already.

I hope you can get in to see someone sooner - and I wish I was there so her and Aricyn could run amok together and we could have some.. drinkies... :p

:hug: Lulu, you must be at the end of your tether.

Can you have a nap in the middle of the day if she has a nap? I know it's not a long term solution, but just to help you get through the day with your own lack of sleep.

I know you say you've tried everything, but you're a smart cookie - what do you think has the BEST chance of working? How long did you try it for? She sounds like she is winning this bedtime war, hands down. I think you can do this, and I think you have a better chance of getting it right than you have of making it to the end of January sanity-intact with this still going on!

And just one point - it sounds like she doesn't want to sleep in her room for her daytime nap either. Can you change that? It sounds like her sleep association is not in her bed.

Sorry you're dealing with this Lulu, whinge away! Let us know how you're going. :hug:

Trill, he is half the problem. He is just LOUD LOUD LOUD, totally doesn't understand about the need for a tight routine. He does help all he can and often ends up walking her in the pram at 10.30pm. We are both at wits end and I've asked that he doesn't come over for a full week so I can tackle it on my own *sob.

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Trill, he is half the problem. He is just LOUD LOUD LOUD, totally doesn't understand about the need for a tight routine. He does help all he can and often ends up walking her in the pram at 10.30pm. We are both at wits end and I've asked that he doesn't come over for a full week so I can tackle it on my own *sob.

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You can do it. Lulu. Night time does not sound like the right time for him to come and help. But it must be tricky as I'm guessing he doesn't have a stack of free time during the day. He needs to respect your rules, otherwise, how can you expect Beth to? Sounds like you've already tried to sort out some aspects of the problem.

Oh hon.... :hug:

I only have one suggestion, and a good chance it wont work, sorry..... :doh:

Can you shake her up, and start all over??

Move the furniture in her room around, and put new covers on the bed. Buy a 2 big kids clocks, and put some stickers on.

One for nap, two stickers, (up and down time)eg, sticker at 12.00 and 2.30....

One for bed, two stickers, (up and down times) Show her her sleep times...and show her the sticker time when you get her up, lots of praise...

She can take her blanket to bed of course....

And when she comes out, she goes straight back in...even if it takes till the 2.30!!

If she sleeps AT ALL, she gets a sticker etc for being sooo good.....

It would take awhile, but could get her into a good routine, IF it works....

thats all I got babe, sorry.....

One more thing thats going to pee me right off - when I went to sleep school when Mitch was 3 months the place was full of women with MINOR problems with their kids. Out of the 8 or so of us that were there, 2 of us actually had real sleep issues.
Seriously, whilst I was up every hour trying to resettle EVERYONE else was quite happily going to bed and sleeping through the night. Most of them had problems getting the child down for a day sleep. BIG FRICKEN DEAL.

so now there is a waiting list of MONTHS and if and when I get there its full of minor issues I'm gonna go off my tree, I really mean it.

I'll be back later to reformulate a plan using some of these responses. I really appreciate it xoxoxoxo

huge :hug: sweetie. Gosh can't really add more than what has been said. The whole sleep school thing seems like a pain. I can see why they are full, the moment someone's baby/toddler is unsettled for a couple of days, someone will always suggest sleep school for them :rolleyes:

We will be getting the spare bedroom set-up soon, so if you want a cheap holiday come down here. The kids can get together and run themselves ragged chasing the animals. You need a break.

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so now there is a waiting list of MONTHS and if and when I get there its full of minor issues I'm gonna go off my tree, I really mean it.

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You won't need sleep school, Lulu. (Sounds like it was a great place :rolleyes:) You CAN do this and you will. :hug: I really hope your new plan gives you some much-needed strength and resolve! Let us know what it is!

WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT - I forgot to ask for a referral for Beth at the Drs today :wall:.

I think the first step is to clear Dp out of the way PROPERLY. Yes he lives miles away but when he is working around this area he 'pops in' and doesn't leave for days, or forgets to catch the bus home, or whatever. I think I'm happy for the help but he doesn't actually help at all. I'm pretty sure he has adult ADD (not joking), he simply cannot concentrate on anything. One minute he is getting Mitch in the shower, next he is in the vegie patch at 8pm, then he is feeding the dogs :rolleyes:.

Last weekend Dp took them up to his place and I was supposed to get some rest ready to take her on this week but they both got so very ill and thats out the window now. I might see if they can try again this weekend just so I can catch up (I'm totally fine during the day - I thrive on sunlight!) and be ready, get her bedroom sorted nicely.

They are both resting on the couch now, I hope she sleeps even though its getting a little late in the day...bugger it all.

I think with sleep school if you call them crying that you are a single mum and that you are desperate and that you may do something irrational if you don't get help soon they may be able to get you in earlier (but you didn't hear that from me...).

If you can't get in earlier I think it is best to get DP out of the way and really focus on the issue. The change of routine and bedroom thing to start all over again from scratch and implement a new program as PurpleMumma suggested might do the trick.

Bugger about Dp Lulu. Maybe that's what is stirring her up and she's getting conflicting messages then about what is acceptable at night time - like she thinks it's OK to be loud when Dad is loud kwim? Jodie has some super ideas too.

Also, what time *ideally* would you like to see them into bed? maybe it's a bit early for them? A friend of mine had shocking issues with her eldest trying to get him to go to bed, but she was putting him to bed at 6pm - as well as forcing (yep, I did mean force) him to have 2 day sleeps and would complain about his terrible sleeping habits to anyone that would listen but the poor kid just wasn't tired! She finally worked out that if she put him to bed 2 hours later and dropped a day sleep (mind you he was 3!) that he went down for both his arvo and his bedtime sleep without a fuss.

Wow, hows this! I got an SMS from them saying they had a cancellation for 17/12, then another call just then saying they had another cancellation so I can have the assessment call for tomorrow 3.30!!!!

I think 7 - 7.30 is the right time for them both to go to bed and Beth is buggered by that stage. She only has sleeps when she has been up all night. She really dropped daysleeps at 18 months like her brother...
They both wake up well about 7 to 7.30 am unless its been a 'big night'....

:hug: Lulu. I'm sorry you're having a tough time. We don't get much sleep in this house either, though I don't think it's as tough as yours! I am lucky enough to have good support from DH (when he's not working...).
The only suggestions I can think of is to use some relaxation techniques, like a bath, massage in low lighting and oil burner in her room, with a little relaxing oils burning. And a strict routine, and bed time EVERY time she goes to bed.
Good luck, there's nothing worse than that horrible tiredness every single day.

ETA, Wooohooooo!! I hope it all goes well!!

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WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT - I forgot to ask for a referral for Beth at the Drs today :wall:.

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Hun, I'm surprised you remember ANYTHING functioning on so little sleep!

Make your plan, get DP to stay away at bed time (or in the vegie patch the entire time!) and stick to it. Give yourself two weeks without wavering from it and see if you still need something more drastic.

Liz, I just don't know where to start.

Last night she went down (after no sleeps) after a boob YAY. Wakes at 12.30am off her head. she keeps saying I neeed to get out, I wanna get out (of the bedroom). She hit me if I came near her, then cried when I sat back on the bed. Seemed like a night terror first up, and she settled when she followed me out of the room for a drink. She was screaming the whole time.
So she has a drink we wander back to bed together, then she demands boobies and starts the screaming and kicking all over again. I by this stage have my head firmly under the pillow trying to ignore her. I don't want to keep feeding her and now she is refusing to wean and she is 2.5.
I hold fast for awhile, then lose the plot after she headbutts me and storm outside to take a deep breath. She cries at the back door for 2 mins whilst I do so. Breath taken and hackles down I talk calmly to her cuddle her and take her back to bed. She stops on the way and looks at me like I'm an alien and wont go any further, clutching her drink. I talk gently to her, worried she is still dreaming and then I see it..........the face she gives when she is pretending the world has ended, the bottom lip and all. It occurs to me that she is putting the WHOLE thing on.
I cave in give her the boob - after 45 mins of tanty, she goes to sleep happily in my bed and doesn't stir when her brother wakes yelling :rolleyes: at 2.30, 3.30 OR when he hops into bed next to her......

How do I deal with this? The screaming (remember she is 2) at 12.30 is awful, but the poor kid who lives next door must be going nuts too. The windows are close and the wall on that side of the house is thin and unfinished. Its not fair on her, and I'm going to send the neighbours a present for being so bloody good about this. Its been going on forever...

I can't tell if she genuinely is frightened/dreaming or just going right over the top to get what she wants. So I feel like I can't address the problem. nor formulate a plan. It seems I only have enough brainspace to breath, blink and drive.....

ETA: She would do this maybe once or twice a week, but over the last 3 weeks its been nearly every night.

what Calm drops did you get , because im am having similar sleep problems with DS who is 2 ... last night we had an early night at 9:30 pm ... BUT those brauer calm drops do not work on my misunderstood erratic sleeper !! :hug:

also too at night before we even attempt to put nixon to bed , we make sure ALL the windows are shut , because it sounds like we are hurting him .. i wish i could go back to sleep school ( have been once already) but DH wont let me ..

Nope they don't work here either....*sob

Lulu, big :hug: and all the best for the assessment interview today. I really hope they squeeze you in ASAP. BTW I know exactly what you mean after I spent 3 months of hallucinatory sleep deprivation and then I lobbed up at the Centre and there was a woman who'd got in after 3 weeks and who was there because her to rather-well-fed-looking toddler kept chucking their(very unappealing) food off the highchair tray. :rolleyes:
Another big :hug: and I think you're doing a wonderful job in desperate circumstances.

Gosh - she is so much like my DD1. Brauers drops only kind of helped sometimes :rolleyes: I so remember the screaming, infact we still get it. If she is fighting bed or wants mummy she screams. If she wakes in the middle of the night, she screams (which is occasional now), she wakes in the morning she screams.

As much as I hate to admit it, weaning was what got her sleeping better. It did take DH's help to do it, he did most of the night time routine, we just had to keep the boobies away from her.

Lulu i dont know alot about it but i will try find out for you. I know someone who has had similar issues with there toddler and she took her to a naturopath, i am not sure of the specifics but i know the child was lacking in something and also had other issues. Anyway she now has i think it is like a calming/relaxing syrup (mixes in yoghurt) that is given an hour before bed. I know there are other things the family changed also but as i said i am not sure of specifics, i will do my best to find out asap and get back to you.

Thinking out loud, possible options:

Can the council offer any support?
Can queen Elizabeth centre offer any help before addmision?
What about local DHS office, can they provide in home support for you?

I will add to this list if I think of anything.

Good luck

SJL - already working with the council. Initially I wanted it to be about how Dp can understand the effect he is having on DS, it got him thinking but of course he doesn't feel it a big enough priority to continue. I refuse to follow up for him but I still go to vent my frustration and its helped me see the (really CRAPPY) dynamics going on here.
They do provide in-home support but they are packed to the rafters and I can't get in for that now.

Talk to QEC today, she offered me a place at the residential unit for 5 days in January. TBH I don't know if I'll need it, cos changes need to be made now and it looks like I'll be doing it on my own. Thats ok though, I'm finding strength again already (thanks BB!).

So tonight - told DD she needs to be a 'proper' girl ( I can't use the word big, she doesn't like it!), and go to bed properly for a sticker in the morning. Did the routine, she fell asleep but woke up about an hour later. Put her back to bed - she wandered out 11 times and I just put her back, soothed her and BY JINGO she has stayed there. 11 times isn't really much, considering it took nearly 30 times when Dp was here and it still didn't work.

I consider the fact Dp hasn't been here since Monday for this. I know it ain't gonna be plain sailing so soon but my confidence has come back immediately. I was always quite strict with DD16 and I know thats what gives her security now. With Dp here, always noisy, talking LOUDLY and clumping around in his fricken steel caps on hardwood floors just does my head in and literally saps me, then I'm too tired and anxious to face a stubborn 2 year old.

So I live to fight another day! Liz, you were so right I will be able to work this out :kissing:

Glad to know it is getting better Lulu. I remember now a friend of ours had trouble with his DD when she was little. He only visited a couple of days a week and those nights she would be feral. They worked out that she did not want her daddy to leave, so she was deliberately staying up, as he would leave once she went to sleep.

You can do this!

I thought I was doing the right thing letting him stay over rather than drag the kids off hours away, but he has absolutley NO respect for the kids needs or me. He keeps saying he wants to spend as much time with them as possible and hates that I won't let him live here (why would I??????), so HE keeps us all in a constant state of chaos. I'm sure on some level he doesn't want this sorted because I wont need him here. Can you tell I'm getting angry now I have had time to think about it??

Lulu, good on you. Actually, you have made this about you and her Dad (which it is), rather than put the problem squarely at her feet. I don't mean to pick on you BTW! But you're right, with some children, a strict routine is what they need and it's up to you (and her father - haha) to provide that. Sounds like it's tough to expect it to all fall on your shoulders, :hug:, I guess that's life sometimes. You will reap the rewards in the long run.

11 times isn't so bad for the first time. You will probably have setbacks even once she gets into the swing of things, but once you get on top of it you're right, your confidence will enable you to get right back on the horse.

GREAT JOB - You sound like the strong woman we all know and love once again!

Hey Lulu, wanted to drop in and let you know I'm thinking of you. I have nothing to suggest to you, but it sounds like you are working it all out anyway.
Did you have the assessment with the sleep school? I was wondering if you expressed your concerns about the effect DP's antics have on the kids to a councellor, and then they spoke to your DP and suggested he get it together that he may take it more seriously, KWIM?
In any case, I really hope things sort themselves out for you one way or another. Dealing with crazy bedtime antics is nooooo fun at all. :hug:

Oh man, that sounds hard, hard, hard but glad that you're seeing light at the end of the tunnel and FWIW, I would take the sleep school option even if you might not need it by then and treat it as a bit of a holiday - you bloody deserve it.

I to am wondering if the issue is with her room (rather than sleep as such) and also if sometimes Dp is not there when she goes to bed but then she can hear him later so gets up? So perhaps to her, it is worth getting up after a few hours sleep cos Dp might be there? Dunno. Maybe the day sleep is not so much of a problem because she knows that Dp isn't around during the day so she's not going to miss anything.

I am sending you a virtual bottle of scotch and a funnel!

no ideas...... just big hugs and the offer of a coffee and a shoulder if you need it!

Both children sound asleep by 8pm. Calm, happy and settled. DD woke up this morning and was awarded her stickers, one for each hand. She was happy, rested and her usual adorable self. Not like the past few weeks when she stumbles out of bed and tells me to 'shup up' when I say good morning. She woke once and climbed in with me, not a problem at all.

In the last few months I've cast a net far and wide for help with this. I knew Dp's behaviour was the problem but I ended up so run down I couldn't see what to do. I'm not passing the buck here - this is the kind of stuff I've been facing.

He says 'righto kids, get ready and we'll go for a walk'. The he literally takes 90 mins to get out the door. He checks the PC, changes his clothes, gets something to eat, takes a phone call, checks the pc etc etc etc, whilst the children are waiting for him.

I have pleaded with him to at least stay inside from between 5 and 7 pm and help with the nighttime routine. I have it down pat and so do the kids, but again. He will mess about in the garden, feed the dogs, hang out washing and take at least 5 phone calls. 3 of these will be from his stupid mother who cannot understand the concept calling a little later. Meanwhile the kids will be waiting for their story, jumping all over the place etc.
So I hiss at him to get his act together, so he takes DS to bed and tells him a story that lasts 45 minutes. He talks loudly, waking DD who wants in on the action - and it goes on and on and ON. When he is here they want daddy to do the story.

No matter how many fricken times we talk about it, he 'forgets' 2 minutes later.

Oh and he never, EVER shuts up. He and his family are the most negative (and uninformed) people I have ever come across so you could imagine the drivel that comes out of his mouth.

Being in tears of frustration I thought to myself - this guy is fricken BRAIN DAMAGED. Nothing he does makes any sense to me, HTF did I think this BOZO would be a decent parent? Hhhmmmmm, brain damage.....he has been in 2 massive car accidents in the past and lived a 'colourful' life....hhhmmmm.


I'm pretty sure he is a classic case of adult ADD actually. And I don't get a rats, he can deal with it. Wether he is unable to see the effect he has on everyone around him or not, I don't give a rats. Not my problem. I'm dealing with this, he will not be able to come over during the week at all. Life is calm and as it should be when he is not here. I feel like a new person, I'm confident in my parenting and we have been having a great time over the last few days. I still hit the roof if someone makes a noise, but hopeful that will improve now.

In a half-assed defense for him, I need to say he simply adores his children. He spends huge amounts of time taking them on adventures showing the things, he often tells me how grateful he is to me for carrying them for him. He thinks I'm a birthing champion and tells everyone. He paced the floor with the babies for hours on end as I slept. Sometimes he is actually funny and he does have a bagful of the most hilarious true stories from his years as a norty boy.

He just *****s me to tears :rolleyes:

I just want to say......

You absolutely amaze me Lulu .....

If I end up being half the mum and woman you are I'll be feeling pretty impressed with myself!!!
You are so strong and tolerant and great at it all!!!

xoxox

Ahhhh Lulu, sounds like your Dp and mine might have been separated at birth. I know only too well the loudness and the inability to get in/out the door remotely on schedule.

But DP is much better at listening these days. I don't know what else you can do to get through to yours so totally understand banning him for a while. Best of luck!

Just throwing a :hug: your way hun! I think you're amazing :D

Ah thanks Sam - loving that ticker pic!

Fi - I think our houses were built about the same time too ;). I'm glad your DH can learn to listen....

For ages I thought I just wasn't used to co-parenting. Its a new concept to me! I'm used to running the show totally and not having to consider anyone else.....oh I dunno.

Sounds like he's a decent 'parent' as long as someone else takes on the responsibility and duties of being a parent and he's allowed to do the fun stuff.

Sounds more like an uncle than a parent to me, but at least in that kind of a role his kids will know him and he can have a positive impact on their lives. Sucks for you, but at least you KNOW how to do this parenting thing on your own. Just sucks, that's all.

PS At least you don't have to parent him when he's not around now...

There you go Jen - hitting the nail on the head again! He just wants to be King of the Kids....

But then again, he does try to discipline them. Which is much harder for him because they can never really tell if he is joking or not. Then he gets angry because they don't take him seriously. His 'discipline and guidance' mean BELLOWING at them and lecturing them. He talks over the top of DS constantly, then gets angry when DS throws himself to the floor in frustration.

Again, the noise level when he is here :doh:.
The other day I asked him to see what would happen if he lowered his voice and took a kinder tone when talking to DS.
DS sat back, looked at him and asked "are you being a real daddy?" :ROFL: