Thanks Tan! I've got one of the Ottobre books, and the women's tee-shirt pattern which I'm in the process of cutting out, haven't made it yet - and the patterns are very well designed, and the instructions very clear. I'm looking forward to attempting the o + s stuff, it's much more challenging than anything else I've done so far. I'd say that the Ottobre stuff is on a par with o + s patterns.