I'm pretty sure that what looks attractive to you and what looks attractive to a 'sympathetic' older man are different things.:
Personally I thought that there was a lot of wisdom in Glam's post.
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I'm pretty sure that what looks attractive to you and what looks attractive to a 'sympathetic' older man are different things.:
Personally I thought that there was a lot of wisdom in Glam's post.
Oh ****, sooo busted. Haha I thought my description was kinda vague...was it the teachers taking us on smoko's that gave me away? :p:
:rofl: Nah, just the reference to S... ;p
Poor sod, I am the one who gave him a smoke again - he was going so well too :redface:
How about duty of care to asthmatic children? Passive smoking and all that.
I understand what glam is saying but should we start providing injection rooms at schools if there is someone addicted to drugs? IMO smoking, drinking and drugs shouldn't ever be tolerated at school. We shouldn't be encouraging them.
Never said anyone had to agree with me.
Most of you by now should know I don't care if you do or don't agree & say it how I see it.
i think it's absolutely appalling. i am a teacher and if this kind of policy was implemented at my school i would be absolutely up in arms about it. i don't care if students are addicted. too bad.
we actually used to run quit programs at our school for any students caught smoking- they had to attend 6 sessions in their free periods.
Lol no way! Ahh I had a good time there :):
Yes, I was going to say what about the 2nd and 3rd hand smoke? It's one thing for a kid to pollute their own lungs, it's quite another to subject the non-smokers around them to it too.:
*shakes head* I just don't get it - Why would they want to promote such a horrible unhealthy addictive habit?
I understand what you are saying Glam, But i really think they should be going the other way, in offering patches and quit programs, etc to help with the addiction not promote it.
Does this school have "adult re entry"? I ask because when I was 17 I went back to school as an adult re entry student, (having dropped out at 15) to do year 11, there was a designated area for the "adults" to smoke, basically behind a shed right at the back of the school.
Adult re entry didnt have to wear school uniform so it was pretty obvious if one of the "school" kids were in there.
I honestly would have thought though that these days the same wouldnt be happening, the crack downs on smokers is huge and widespread, seeing as one cant even smoke in a BAR these days, any sort of learning/education system would be a no go area.
First of all - I agree 110% with everything that Glam has written.
Secondly - I am reading some of these posts and thinking "what planet do you live on??" Because here on earth, smoking happens. It is legal (after a certain age), and every individual has a choice of whether they want to do it or not. Same with everything else. You can drink alcohol. Or not. Your choice. You can eat junk food. Or not. Etc. Just because someone doesn't like something, or thinks that something doesn't sit right within their moral compass, does not make that certain something any less real. It is still going to happen. So how is ignoring it and pretending that it doesn't happen help??
(Which is what I read these posts as suggeting - don't allow smoking at any costs and punish those who do = those who do smoke will just pretend that they don't do it and keep on doing it anyway in secret.)
I say good on the school - seeing a problem and tackling it in a realistic way. Prohibition is an old fashioned law that has never worked (banning alcohol or drugs or sex never stopped the practice, so why are people still thinking that prohibiting people to do something that they want to do is actually going to stop them doing it??)
Another thing I don't get is: how does "allowing" something to happen equal "promoting" it? I would say it's the opposite - allowing something takes away that forbidden taboo factor that draws so many teenagers to do stupid things.
People will do what they want to do and not allowing them simply drives the behaviour underground, leading to danger (e.g. kids going out of school grounds to smoke and getting hit by cars, or abducted, or worse...)
IMO there is a difference between all those things and smoking, my major concern is 2nd hand smoke, you may choose to smoke but because I don't want to and I don't want my kids exposed should we walk around holding our breaths?:
I don't see how this is smart of the school? Smoking is a problem, are there any parents out there who actually want their kids to smoke? And IMO I think its about time we stopped taking such a relaxed attitude about such things and thinking "well it happens so why not facilitate it".
My problem with allowing students to smoke on the grounds is as I've said before DS was smoking and yes kids will experiment and do but it is going to make it so much harder for him now that he has given up and will so for others who want to give up. They are still underage in a public school on public property.
Regards,
Dianne
So again, pander to the illegal minority, and bugger the risks to the kids that currently DONT smoke, and the parents trying their bloody hardest to take away most temptations??:
Again, I'm so freakin glad this crap will never happen at my kids school..... as if parenting wasnt hard enough, we now have schools going against us too... thats just great..... :shakehead:
sorry, the quotey bits didnt come out how I thought it would.. Ill try to fix it.....
Oh and another thing, I bet my money on there still being students who don't smoke within the designated area because its "uncool" "too far" etc, happens at my husbands work, they only have to walk a few meters and they are complaining!
My senior college allowed us to smoke. I really don't recall anyone deciding that they were going to start because they could. I think by that time most of the kids who were going to smoke were smoking.
What I do remember is lots of amazing teachers who managed to make children who were on the verge of walking away from the education system re-engage with learning.
Personally I would prefer that children not lose their educational opportunities as well as their health if they are smoking. As for whoever asked about shooting galleries.... at the risk of a public lynching...... yes, if there were junkies at my children's school (which isn't likely since junkies tend to drop-out), then I would prefer that they were given a quiet corner in sickbay with a curtain and a sharps disposal bin and an ask no questions tell no lies policy, instead of using the toilet or oval and maybe leaving a needle where another child could get a needle stick injury.
There's no need to provide them with anywhere to shag - teenagers are expert at finding those places themselves :p
:goodone: What Onyx said. (As usual someone else makes my exact point but so much more eloquently.) :)
Re the second hand smoke - I thought it was giong to be a deisgnated area, like in any other place, i.e. if you don't want to smoke, don't go there...
For the record - I'm not actually a smoker, I just don't believe in imposing my personal choices on everyone else.
Dianne - I understand your point, but as an ex-smoker, isn't your DS going to have this same issue, i.e. being around smokers, everywhere he goes?
Oooh this is an interesting thread...I don't have time now but will come back with my opinion :D
Well unless its a designated area with its own air supply people will be exposed to 2nd hand smoke.
Why don't we just all go light up in the local play grounds while kids play?
Smokers do take their children to the park on occasion. Should we ban them from doing so?
I don't believe people should be smoking on play grounds.
Why can't they wait until they are away from other peoples children?
BTW my husband is a smoker and even he wouldn't smoke anywhere near a play ground
[QUOTE=Starfish;2701209Dianne - I understand your point, but as an ex-smoker, isn't your DS going to have this same issue, i.e. being around smokers, everywhere he goes?[/QUOTE]
I know you asked Dianne, but as a mum of teens, I'll answer too... :p
No, my teen isnt around smokers everywhere he goes.
With the law the way it is, my kids are rarely arond smokers, thank god.
I certainly dont send them to to school to be segregated from their friends at lunch, unless they want to smoke with them.
How much easier is it going to be for those who hardlt get access to ciggies, and who might have to odd puff, to just get them at school and just smoke to their hearts content?
Parents could have what they thought were good kids, only to find the school has ALLOWED them to smoke there all day, 5 days a week.
If smoking has become SUCH a problem for kids they cant handle school without them, maybe they need help, not enablement????
No lynching Onyx, ;), but you really would be happy for junkies to be taking their drugs to school, where your kids are??
I try to keep my kids AWAY from this at such an impressionable age, not have it in the school yard for all to know about, and trust me, its school, everyone would know!!! ;)
Thanks PB, the only way DS was able to give up smoking was during the holidays he didn't associate with the kids from school who are smokers. When he was hanging out in the holidays he would call on two of his mates who don't smoke. He took up fishing during the holidays and he literally spent nearly every day, on his own. The majority of his Yr10 mates smoke so will be in the "designated" smoking area, which is the tennis court. Maybe he'll find some others that don't smoke, they may end up being the minority.
Regards,
Dianne
Thats sad babe.. Its going to be VERY hard for those trying to not smoke if its in their face 5 days a week, at a place that should be "safe" from smoking/drugs etc......
(yes, i know school isnt "safe" from these things, but I do beleive it will be less safe if its "open season"....)
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If your kids were so good in the first place, then they wouldn't be smoking no matter what the rules were or weren't.
A 17 year old will make their own decisions, they are not children, and tbh, I am amazed that you give them so little credit to make intelligent decisions sometimes - surely if you have raised them the way you hope you have, then they will stand up for themselves and their own rights and not smoke if they didn't want to. If you have raised weak minded sheep, I suppose you should be worried.
The fact is, that 17 and 18 year olds will make choices for themselves, good or bad, and having a particular area available at a school in which to have the freedom to live that decision is not going to magically make teens begin smoking just because they are have that space. If the inclination was/is there, they will do it behind the toilets or where ever anyway.
The premise that having the space designated will facilitate more to make that choice is as ridiculous as the argument that providing condoms in schools will facilitate more to choose to have sex.
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Have you actually had this even confirmed by the school yet?
The notion that such an area would exist in the first place is difficult to fathom, let alone that the place the school should deem appropriate for this to take place would be a TENNIS COURT is laughable.
That's a no brainer. But, if there were children using IV drugs at my child's school then yes, I would prefer they did it in sickbay.:
Really it's pretty hypothetical because children with drug problems slip through the cracks and get lost. They don't usually continue their education :(
Truth is that there are drugs in every high school in Australia (every single one of them) and I believe that policies that mimimise harm are better than sweeping it under the carpet.
I never said anything about sweeping it under the rug...I would be happier if they got the help/support they needed not injection rooms
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My point is, aren't ALL teens sheep at some point? ;)
Do we really need to put things like smoking on the curriculum at school, as a choice to take up?
I know HEAPS of kids that started at 16, 17 & 18, to say they all start beforehand is just not true.
And to be honest, were my kids to have to the odd smoke, I would rather it STAYED the odd smoke, not a full time activity to take up every recess and lunch break... as if that is good for them!!! :rolleyes:
Like I said, if smoking is SUCH a problem they cant attend school because of it, maybe help would be better?
Same with the drugs, wouldnt a zero tolerance, and HELP, be better than saying, "just bring em in, and do them here!" ??? The policy of NO DRUGS isnt sweeping under the carpet, its TRYING to make school safe for others, not just the users and smokers.
But like I stated in my first post, wont happen at my kids school, so all my talk is hypothetical anyway, and has no weight whatsoever!!! :p
Okay, as to the second-hand smoke argument... really? My old school had a strict no-smoking policy. That didn't stop me smoking before school at home and then sitting next to kids in class, or smoking outside the school fence during lunch hours and then going to another class and 'infecting' another student who had the misfortune to sit next to me while I reeked of cigarettes and Impulse (now that I'm older, I genuinely wonder which one is worse lol...). That covers the 'third-hand smoke' argument, and as for second-hand smoke - that's the whole idea of a DESIGNATED AREA within or just outside the school grounds. Our unofficial 'smoker's area' at school was under a big tree next to the fence on the bottom oval. Nobody ever came near us unless they were a smoker, 'visiting' a smoking friend (and we were pretty wary of 'outsiders' so they tended to stop at the next tree and wait for their friend to go over to them rather than coming right up to us), or a teacher trying to catch us out. No way was anybody unwillingly affected by second-hand smoke, we were seated a good 100m from the nearest building, which was the school hall.
I know a designated area isn't the 'ideal' situation here, but come onnnn. Some other posters have covered the arguments really well ;)
- that's a bit rude don't you think? People have personal convictions for, well, personal reasons - the planet we all live on differs in our own eyes.:
I am reading some of these posts and thinking "what planet do you live on??"
But on my planet, rules are rules, laws are laws. Of course banning anything never stopped it from happening, that doesn't mean we should go - stuff all the rules, someone's gonna do it anyway, why not make it simple and allow it. Someone commented used the drug scenario and it was indicated that that was an extreme example - OK fine - but where do you draw the line?
I may think it is riciculous to allow drugs at school, another person may see it the same way some of you are seeing the smoking issue.
As far as I see it, school is the formative years of life, you are setting rules and standards for life.
Who's to say this designated area is "away" from everyone else? Or is not on the way between "here and there".
Smoking at school and near children IMO is not ok, I can't see why this is acceptable other than "because they are doing it" that isn't a very good argument.
I wish!!!! :p:
I hate nothing more than going out, for FRESH air with my kids, and having some idiot come over near me (pregnant) or my little kids, fag hanging out, blowing that crap over us... It is one the most RUDEST things there is I think.
If YOU wish to smoke, keep it to YOURSELF, and stop inflicting on little kids and unborn babies, when we go out of our way to avoid it.. its not like I went to the "smoking" area of a bloody pub or something!!! :angry:
Seriously, there is enough crap in the air as it is without having extra chemicals blown all over us because YOU cant stay away from others when YOUR having a smoke.....
Ok, rant over!!! :p.. but really, I hate it!!! :p
It just seems so backwards... When the community is finally getting back some space with smoke free pubs and clubs and hospital grounds... This school is going the other way and creating a smoking space in a place that is usually smoke free.
Just seems ludacris! So much money spent on education against smoking and quit programs and then a school goes ahead and makes it easier, not harder!
Smoking is anti-social behavior with proven health and financial costs to the individual and the community. It should be shamed upon and those that do it forced to do it far away from public places. Its not cool, its a dirty, disgusting and expensive habit.
I have friends who quit after the clubs and pubs ban cos they were sick of having to go outside in the gutter and leave their mates, just to have a smoke. Plus the expense with the high taxes!
I think making smoking areas inconvenient does encourage quitting as I have seen it work for friends.
And if smoking addiction is so bad it affects your school work, then you need help to quit, cos not a lot of work places in the real world are going to put up with an employer that addicted either!
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All I've noticed in Brisbane really, is that now there are people lighting up at pedestrian crossings, concentrated rows of people 4m from shopping centre entrances, building entrances and train stations, or at the taxi rank, it is ludicrous, as is the state of the English language on the internet!! ;-)
DS15 is definately no weak minded sheep, he is not scared to say "no" but he did surcumb to smoking. When I asked him about it he told me for quite a while initially he didn't smoke around all his smoker friends but he wasn't the "cool" one anymore so decided to join in. What we are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with how you raise your child. I tend to think I have raised DS so far quite well. I have a meeting to speak to someone at the school tomorrow and YES they do smoke on the tennis court, the school is at the end of my street. I deliberately walked past yesterday to make sure.:
Regards,
Dianne
Another thing, where do you draw the line? So its ok for 17/16yo's...what about 15yo's? If smoking is so ok for children why not roll them out at primary schools?
Are you going to put a smoke shop at the highschool so the kids don't have to leave the grounds if they run out?
Wow, i'm a non smoker for the record but i'm pretty sure "shaming" someone isn't going to achieve anything :rolleyes::
ETA I'm pretty sure Onyx isn't saying smoking parents should be able to smoke IN the playground...
Then I'm not sure what she means???
Well its achieved 4 of my friends to quit, so I beg to differ: