Really annoyed at my MCNs- help needed!

[KatieRabbit]

Well have been using MCNs now for about 4-6 weeks and I am seriously cross with lots of them. I have tried a number of brands and have mostly OSFM and a few sized butDD is 18 months and 12kg so a good fit for the OSFM on the big settings.
My problem is that DD wets through lots of the nappies really quickly and I can't figure out why. The leaks seem to be around the waist and around the legs even though the nappies appear to fit well here. But I find that I have to change her trousers with each nappy change which is about 1-2 hours every day and I run out of clothes really quickly! I mostly have pockets with bamboo or microfribre inserts and I have tried boosting with bamboo boosters which is ok but then leaves a leg gap.
I have:
Greenkids- serious leaks
CT basix- just doesn't work
CT Coutures- literally 60 minutes to wet trousers
BumG- not too bad- can go 2 hours
Swaddlebees- not too bad- will try another insert to make 3
IB- not too bad but can't boost
Bamboo fitted- good except overnight
Happy Heiny- leaks
Haute- leaks

I don't want to keep 'trying' nappies at $30+ each and postage to find they don't work but am at a loss as to what to do. At the minute am putting PUL covers over pocket and AIO nappies to get thru the day but feel that I shouldn't have to do this. DD is no longer breastfed but has normal water or very diluted juice during the day and a small bottle of milk overnight.
Does anyone have any suggestions for poor old me?

[Arimeh]

Thats bizarre that they are leaking around the waist? I only get leaking around the waist if he's sleeping or something and it leaks out the top cos he's a belly sleeper.

Are you using compatible inserts with the brands? I only use my green kids inserts with my green kids. You can only really expect to get about 2 hours out of microfibre anyway, it just doesn't hold that much, especially with a heavy wetter.

Or you could try putting the pockets in the dryer on low for a few minutes to try and reseal the PUL? It might be that.

Or it could be - because you get leaks with your green kids and not swaddlebees, maybe your bub is more suited to narrow crotch nappies? Green kids are really wide. We get severe camels toe here, but no leaks, so they aren't too bad here.

Thats all I can think of at the moment. How many times have you washed your bamboo inserts?

[KatieRabbit]

Thanks Mel!
Have seen the waist leaking a number of times but around the legs ALL the time.
My inserts match the outer- I am weird about them going with the right one!

Or you could try putting the pockets in the dryer on low for a few minutes to try and reseal the PUL? It might be that.

I just thought that it is weird that it is a variety of nappies and that I just can't find one that I think "I would like a dozen of those". Would PUL need resealing this early on?
The Greenkids are superwide aren't they? I can't figure how the leaks happen? I can't see any obvious camel toes...
Bamboo inserts have been washed probably a dozen times I am guessing?
I am not exaggerating on getting an hour out of the nappies! I spoke to the lady at CTs about them and she said you could get up to 5 hrs from a CTC- now I wouldn't leave a baby in a nappy 5 hours nor expect to be able to but 60 mins??

[teruteru]

im not much of a troubleshooter but will try:
* r the inserts soaked when u pull them out to wash?
* have u done the waist too tight so itd leak?
* have u been washing with only small amount of washing powder?

As u dont seem to have as much trouble with fitteds, maybe just use them?? Ive learnt that 2nd hand nappies sometimes r better than new

Sorry im not much help. Hope u find a solution soon!!

[alioops]

I have to agree with Mel hun, sounds like she is a narrow crotch suiter. I get the same problem that you are having with wide crotch on my girls from narrow crotch nappies. What doesnt suit you can put on Buy for Baby or Nappychic and get some of the cost back.

[~Raven~]

What type of detergent are you washing them with? How much do you put in? Too much detergent leaves residue in the fabric and can stop absorbancy!

Do you use fabric softener in your machine with other clothes? It can leave a residue in the machine and also affect the absorbancy of your boosters.

I'm thinking if the boosters aren't absorbing properly then there is nothing to stop the wee from running out.

[~Saram~]

Yep I would be looking at washing first too - sounds like a build up problem. Maybe try a strip wash a few times and see how you go.

The dryer might help on the PUL nappies - although I agree it would be odd that you get the same problem with so many different nappies - PUL generally needs to be resealed if you get leaks from day dot as the needle holes from sewing are what need to be resealed.

If the boosters are soaked through as well as the leaks then you might have a super heavy wetter on your hands mabey fitteds and covers would be the way to go?

Which swaddlebees are we talking - OSFA or sized AIO? Cause the Swaddlebees OSFA and Bum G are both wide crotch nappies.

Where are your Hautes and HH leaking? Legs or waist or both?

Between all the fab ladies on here hopefully we can get you back to loving your MCN

[suse]

I've also found that wide crotched nappies are more prone to leaks around the legs on my narrow crotched guy, but mostly because the inserts 'bunch'. BumGs have always been a lot worse for me than GKs, which work brilliantly because the hourglass shaped inserts don't bunch. I also use GK inserts with BumG pockets with success. So perhaps it's a case of working out which shape inserts work best as well - maybe your GK shells will work well with BumG type inserts (ie: straight edged ones)? I think that the rule is that the insert needs to be as wide as the narrowest point in the crotch.

It does seem that narrow crotched nappies suit your DD best, and most OSFMs are wide crotched, so you may be better off with sized nappies. But that doesn't mean that your OSFMs can't be 'forced' to work for you, I've made mine work for me, it can just be a little trickier at times.

If your daughter is 'between' sizes on OSFMs then the bunching and leaks will be worse, I've always had huge problems with BumGs in particular whenever he moves up a snap setting. Because the shell was a bit looser than it should be, the inserts would bunch up and he'd just leak straight out of the side, and the insert itself would be nearly dry. But once they fit him better they don't leak. At these points a cover did help, because it prevents the inserts shifting around as much. So you may be experiencing an 'inbetween' stage at the moment, it might not last.

The other issue could be under-boosting. My 19 month DS has been known to wet through a d'lish in under an hour, lasts about two hours with a BumG with both microfibre inserts, and for going out or for a nap I add either a GK booster (3 layers of bamboo) or a narrow folded 4 layer bamboo booster. For nights I use either a dedicated night nappy, or a GK with the six layer hourglass insert plus two of the three layer boosters.

I also find that I don't get leg gape if I boost with a booster that is narrower than the original inserts, as the extra bulk is concentrated to the centre of the nappy, not the edges.

HTH!

[KatieRabbit]

Great advice ladies! I only use half a scoop of Ecostore laundry powder and no fabric softener..
Saram- the S/Bees is a pocket and I am very sure it is a large (so, sized). Hautes and HH mostly leg leaks.
From what you are all saying I think I have a heavy wetter who does suit narrow crotches as when I think of it the boosters do bunch and must leave gapes between the leg edge of the nappy and the edge of the booster. I mostly bought OSFM as I wanted to use them on baby due in Nov but I think I may move some of them on and focus on getting narrow crotch ones to sut DD. Any other suggestions on good narrow crotches?
It alarms me when I read of mums to be buying up bulk on the one nappy!!

[maz]

We can use CT's here at all 1 hour max and its complete change. IF your having the same problem dont bother with WC's then hon you'll kick yourslef

Narrow crotches....Ib boo fitteds work good (need a cover)...what about side snappers? you can get SB side snapper pockets that you can stuff. wha tkind of covers are you using???

have you maybe thought about buying some bamboo and making your own trifold boosters to suit hon? If you make them a certain way you can get 7 layers of bamboo for absorbancy and that last us 3 -4 hours depending on what cover or nappy their in. You could use them in what you have already, just take the boosters out and replace with your own. Id be more then happy to guide you in making them

[~Saram~]

Katie - There are a couple of ladies here that will have some excellent advice regarding narrow crotch OSFA - my bub was the opposite so I'm of little help but I think the Ishfly is one??? And maybe the Abbygro - best idea is to take a measurement of the nappies that work for you and go with that

RE - bunching inserts. My DD had trouble with these from about 9mths and these were some things that we tried. Good quality microfibre bunches less when wet than bamboo or hemp and as suse said look for the insert that is the widest you can fit in - less room to move. You might also like to try using two inserts - a microfibre closest to the top of the nappy - ie first part to get wet with a hemp or bamboo underneath closest to the PUL this will give you quick absorption but also the backup of the hemp/bamboo which is more absorbant. The back up should also be able to catch any leaks if the inserts move. And ditto what suse said - you might find after a few month the nappies work fine again and it was just an inbetween stage

Swaddlebees I completely forgot about the pockets! Are you using the hemp or microfibre in these? A combo of both can work really well.

Happyheiny - try the hemp stuffins great hourglass booster system that provides trimness and the ability to combine microfibre and hemp.

Hautes - which size snap are you on and how many inserts are you using? Also are they new ones - within the past 3mths? Do you know if they are the traditional or breathable? It might pay to try them in the dryer on warm and also inspect the PUL for any wrinkling as some of the Hautes have had some problems with PUL disintergrating in the breathables.

Bumgenius also make some fantastic hemp inserts - hemp babies including hemp trifold called little weeds - or the hemp doubler - these can be a little hard to get a hold of but they are a great fit in the Bumg to fix boosting problems.

Good luck and hope you find something that works!

[KatieRabbit]

Maz- you say you can't use CTs as they are wide crotches?
And Maz, you have been guiding me in the nappy making thread about boosters! I have got my bamboo sitting here waiting but don't have an overlocker so was waiting until I found a friend/rellie who has one as we tried some with just a normal stitchon a machine but the edges get ratty.
What is the advantage of side snappers? I have heard people talk about them but just thought that it was another way of closing them??
Covers- have got BBH wool, a motherease airflow (thanks K), bummis with gusset, M/ease Rikki and lots of BBH PUL. Was waiting for the large Maz-a ones to appear on the NB but haven't checked today!

[maz]

can you tell i dont have a brain atm
I find side snappers a snugger fit so less leakage.
Id check out the NB now hon there up

[KatieRabbit]

Thanks Saram. S/bees are microfibre inserts. Hautes are weeks old (so new) and using 2 m/fibre inserts and unsure what snaps around the waist but the largest setting otherwise. Sort of think they are the traditonals from memory! Thanks for the hemp advice. I have only ever gone with bamboo as I had a bad experience with hemp fitted nappies my sister loaned me 18 months ago when DD was born- just didn't really work for us, went really hard and I swear took ages to dry in the Perth summer! (I know is meant to be better drying than bamboo but I didn't find that).
Will get into some measuring the 'good' ones tomorrow!

[Gigi]

i typed out a long reply - and just lost it!

same thing happened to us at the 12 month mark
i had to bite the bullet and sell all our OSFA nappies, they were too wide in the crotch for bilby, the front and aplix closures didn't suit her.

what i suggest for you

Use your current stock for some market research.
Isolate WHICH aspects of various nappies DO suit your bub, and note those down.

look for:

- which, out of our current mcn, suit my child for RISE? once you work this out, measure it, look for nappies with THAT rise (or 2cm higher is ok).

- which, out of our current mcn, suit my child for CROTCH WIDTH? once you work this out, measure the crotch width on those nappies, and look for nappies with THAT crotch width (or 2cm wider is ok too). You may have to email the wahm or store owner, if that info is not on the product specifications page, but it can be done.

- which, out of your current mcn, suit my child regarding closure? Does your child suit sidesnappers? front snappers? (one row, two rows, three rows, etc) aplix?
Note which one, and buy more of that type closure.

- which, out of your current mcn, suit my child re sizing, e.g OSFA or sized? that one sounds pretty clear cut from your description.

i really liked brands that did a "size 2" - e.g 8 - 16kg, that's a pretty wide range, didn't take my child long to get to 8kg, so i think if i had another child, i would go "prefolds and covers" for birth to 8kg, and "size 2 nappies" for the 8kg and up.

in our case, i did this "market research" to all our current nappies, when bilby was 12 months old, and my criteria list ended up being, i discovered what DID suit her was:
- narrow crotched nappies e.g 12 cm wide
- side snapping closures
- sized nappies

which was pretty much, the opposite of what i initially bought!


Now, your 2nd issue, is what you are using for absorbency.

Many OSFA's come with "free" microfibre inserts. I really don't think that is ideal for a 12kg bub like you have.

First off, you need Swaddlebee hemp inserts for the swaddlebee pockets you have.
WHen you first get them, they are too big to be inserted, but after the 10 prewashes, they actually shrink to be the right size. What i did with ours, was to sew a double layer of bamboo terry to the top part of the hemp SB booster.

Properly boosted, i think you will get better function from your SB pockets.

The weewuns did have SB pockets on special (the older style, microfleece inner type), i haven't checked for a while, i would look there. The newer style has cotton velour inner.

There is a brand called Baby Safari who make pockets, i made online enquiries for a friend, and their product specs sound similar to SBs in terms of being another narrow crotched PUL pocket nappy - so another one (similarly priced) to look at.

there is a brand called GADIMALS on the Nature's Cradle site, i would call the shop and ask what they have left, i saw them IRL (they have a real life shop here) and saw more stock there, than is shown on the website. They have furry outers (MM fleece) and are also a narrow crotched sidesnapper. i would get the Large for a 12kg bub. My friend's 8kg bub goes great in the medium long.

there is a brand called blueberry that make sized minky side snapping pockets. weewuns have them. so do nurture nappies.

regarding sidesnapping, narrow crotch fitteds - Cute Tooshies bamboo delights, Whizz Kidz sidesnappers.

regarding night nappies, the winners for us were Lotus Nights (no longer made), and strangely enough Kester Kovers (a front snapper, but the unique design position of the snaps, made it work for my child). My friend's baby, similar shape to bilby, also suits SS, is having success with the Fluffy bubs Dreams nappy.

To me, having a child that suited side snappers, the one way my hit rate DIDN"T succeed, was when i bought sidesnappers that didn't have a photo showing them from the front, or undone. There seem to be two types of sidesnappers.

the important distinction for you to make, when purchasing, is that the sidesnaps are the same as the swaddlebees SS are - that is, that the pairs of snaps are on the BACK WINGS, not on the TUMMY.

i bought a few SS that had the snap pairs on the TUMMY, and they didn't work for us at all. They were SS that were DESCRIBED as SS, no photo from front, so i was just ASSUMING they would be the same as the swaddlebees. only when they arrived, did i find out otherwise. Once i worked that out, i changed my criteria to:
- must be able to see photo of sidesnappers (front or open) and if i coudln't get that from the store or wahm, then i didn't buy. Most people are happy to email you a photo. (i am telling you all this detail, to save you money and time).

another issue
Appropriate Absorbency for a 12kg child

i think you would benefit from at least a dozen bamboo trifolds. if you can sew, i would suggest

- one layer of bamboo fleece 30 x 40cm
- one layer of bamboo terry 30 x 40cm

alternatively,
- two layers of bamboo fleece 30 x 40cm

{{before you sew, hotwash the bamboo fleece TWICE, hot dry the fleece TWICE to get any shrinkage out of the way.

make yourself a template from cardboard.
bamboo is too expensive to have a "practice" on. you want to get it right first time.}}

lay the layers together, either overlock them all the way around (with overlocker)
or
lay them together, straight stitch (with polyester thread, denim strength sewing machine needle) on THREE SIDES. Turn it inside out. make a little envelope, iron down the folds. sew up your fourth edge. So only one row of stitching will show.

with these bamboo trifolds, you can fold them TO FIT whatever pocket nappy you want them to fit. As SUse said, fold them as WIDE as the NARROWEST part of the pocket nappy.

you can also use the bamboo trifolds to boost a fitted nappy, to add to an aio or ai2 if needed.

The ABSORBENCY of a nappy, the bamboo, is the most overlooked, unglam part of mcn-ing, but to me, it is the most CRUCIAL. WIthout enough absorbency, any nappy will wick.

What happens in every nappy, baby wees and keeps on weeing. the absorbent section absorbs wee. for a while.

but any absorbent insert/booster etc EVENTUALLY reaches 100% saturation.
(this happens much faster with microfibre IMO).

once the 100% saturation happens, the extra liquid HAS to go SOMEWHERE
- if you have a wool outer, the lanolised wool absorbs some liquid
- if you have a PUL outer, the PUL becomes wet

So i think you are possibly having a combination of issues
- need more absorbency for the age/weeing output of your child e.g bamboo trifolds
- need to meet your child's fit needs

i don't know your child's body shape, but from your post, it sounds like the narrow crotch of the ittis and SB's suit him, and the sidesnapping closure of the SB suits him.

i would be concentrating on doing your own market research of the current nappies on him, coming up with a list of criteria to buy future nappies, to suit him. that way you will GREATLY decrease your chance of buying nappies that don't suit.

My hit rate went WAY UP once i did this.
i felt silly for emailing sites about CROTCH WIDTH etc, but to my surprise, i got great customer service. i had wahms tell me, "no, my nappies would be too wide for your bub, but i can think of brand X that might suit" - so people were very helpful, ONCE i had identified what my child actually needed.

so, i DO feel your pain and frustration, cos we went thru this when bilby was 12 months old. i hated selling the ones that didn't suit her, they weren't bad nappies, they just didn't work on HER body shape. (mega camel toe!!)

Life was much simpler ONCE i started buying nappies that actually suited her, fitted her.

oh and sidesnappers are very different on some bubs, to front snappers.
with front snappers, we got massive wing droop
her thighs had the blood cut off, if i had the waist firm enough
if i had her thighs comfy, then there was massive gape at the waist.

whereas, with the sidesnappers, when she was skinny, i could get the fit right, INDEPENDENTLY.
e.g you can do the legs up tighter than the waist
when she was super chubster, i could do the legs up loose and the waist tighter
then she slimmed down again, and i coudl keep using the sidesnappers, they are SO adjustable!
so yes, big difference.

i am guessing, due to what is made and sold, MOST bubs suit wide crotched, front closing, OSFA MCN.
but there a minority, that included bilby, who needed the opposite.

hth

[KatieRabbit]

Thank you so much Gigi and I am sorry you lost your first reply. I think you hit the nail on the head a number of times there regarding the fit and absorbancy and I think I was expecting too much for two microfibre inserts to hold the output of a 12kg bub. You have provided so much fantastic advice and seem to be so knowledgeable on so many mcn issues so thank you for sharing. I am off to hot wash my bamboo fleece now and get cracking on those boosters. I will check also the websites with the nappies you mentioned. You have been a super help!

[Olive]

with DD1 even at 2.3yrs i still had the OSFM snapped down on the medium snaps as it gave a better fit, maybe try that too!

[Gigi]

oh i forgot to mention, for Narrow crotch, side snapping night nappies, there is also the Dragonflymagik Night nappy (a12 style). OSFA.

and their SIZED daytime nappies are also narrow crotched, side snappers a12 style. I used the minky (hidden PUL) ones, very happy with their performance. We would have kept on using them, is bilby hadn't gone and tt-d on me! sigh.