Bloodless medicine v Blood Transfusions

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I'm curious about other people's thoughts on this topic - my religion dictates that we don't accept blood, but having researched it, I personally would stay away from blood anyway.

I've put this in General Health because I know there ARE people who won't accept blood for reasons other than religion - as I said, simply curious about other people's thoughts

Mods - please move if necessary

[STARRYSKY]

I had a blood transfusion after giving birth to DS, due to massive blood loss during surgery.
it wasn't a life or death scenario, and to to be honest it felt wrong, I dont know how to explain it but it "felt" wrong?

that being said if it weren't for blood transfusions, my mother would not be alive today, due to a mc at 16wks that left her with retained product that made her haemorrage quite badly, my dad still tears up when we talk about it (and that was 20 years ago) he really thought she was going to die.
im not religiously against it, im not ethically or morally against it, like I said, Ive had one and didnt like it much, but there is a place for it, in my opinion.

[AnyDream]

Happy to give it, happy to get it. I am currently being treated for a type of blood cancer and more advanced cases of the same disease sometimes require bone marrow transplants. Willing to go there if necessary to stay here long enough for my girls to grow into adults. Same goes for tissue/organ donation (though I'm probably excluded from donating when the day comes due to cancer dx).

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I have donated, but wouldn't accept. Can't donate atm due to the drugs I have to take though. I've seen my family die from leukaemia and I wish there were a bloodless alternative for that. I've seen them start to recover then back in bed because someone donated then got a cold the next week and didn't say. I'd rather funds went into finding bloodless alternatives than convincing people to donate. After having researched it Biblically and scientifically I don't think I would donate again. I really think we need to push a medical "blood" rather than someone's blood.

Having said that, I used to take blood and make autologous eye drops from the plasma. But that's from the patient to the patient and no-one else gets the blood. That was fantastic and really helped healing. I'd do that again in a shot. (It was really interesting too - well, not the spinning and seperating and making little tubes of plasma, but the theory was.)

I had a blood product (anti-D) forced on me after Liebling's birth. I looked at my notes and I DIDN'T NEED IT. I am still very cross about that.

[Michelle71]

Not all MD - eyes are still an option I believe.

As for me - haven't been able to donate for many years due to one thing or another but if needed I would have one. As a young (or deluded into thinking I am still young ) woman I would push the limits on when to have one because I can compensate for blood loss easier than an older person. It would also depend on whether it was chronic or acute loss. I also refuse anti-D - thankfully DH is negative too so I don't need it.

I completely respect the choice of those who reject blood and blood products but as a health care professional, these have been my most difficult cases to deal with because I feel like I have failed them by not giving blood and thus not having *done everything* (in my eyes) to save them They may not have survived but I will never know if it could have made a difference.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I completely respect the choice of those who reject blood and blood products but as a health care professional, these have been my most difficult cases to deal with because I feel like I have failed them by not giving blood and thus not having *done everything* (in my eyes) to save them They may not have survived but I will never know if it could have made a difference.

Thank you for sharing your insight on the medical profession Michelle . I'm not sure how much comfort it will bring, but I assure you - anyone who refuses blood from a religious standpoint will absolutely NOT blame you if the worst happens. Believe me, my decisions are made ONLY after prayerful consideration, and ONLY once I am at peace with the knowledge that my stand may one day cost me my life. At the moment, whatever the outcome, I would be extremely greatful that you had even tried bloodless medicine, as the vast majority of surgeons and doctors still completely refuse.

Starrysky, MD and Zaidie - thanks for your insights as well I think this is an interesting topic that people don't generally consider until it's too late, KWIM?

Another question: What are your thoughts on vaccinations/antivenom that is cultured in human/animal blood?

[paradise lost]

I give and would recieve blood. I'm on the bone marrow donation register also, though it'd be unlikely for me to be called on for a non-family-member as bone marrow is so hard to match.

During my brother's birth (placenta praevia, 31 weeks) my mother lost an estimated 80% of her blood volume in around 15minutes. She was given blood and survived. I was born 3 years later and thus owe my life to blood donation. One could not (and as far as i know still cannot) survive 80% blood volume loss. One of my closest friends had a very difficult birth 3 years ago and suffered repeated haematoma's and recieved 15 units of blood in the first 4 days after the birth. I don't know if she'd have lived without the blood, but she was certainly extremely ill.

I know a person who works in a lab searching for an effective treatment for rheumatoid arthritis, an i know they use blood in their work because she is often anaemic (they use their OWN blood for certain parts of the assay). She feels her work is valuable enough to make her own life uncomfortable for it. I would tend to agree with her i suppose.

It's a shame there aren't widespread JW doctors who will treat bloodlessly. I can understand that especially in the UK blood medicine is effective and quick in most cases when compared to bloodless and they just don't have the money to train or research alternative answers for questions they have already answered adequately (if not perfectly). Since Jews do not need a doctor for a circumcision, you would hope that JW's would be able to access more specific medical care.

It is likely i a a poor person to ask though. After watching various family members ail and die and nursing my mother through several major surgeries, chemo, radio, and then holding her hand as she died (ironically, for this thread, of slow internal bleeding from a tumour eating into the vena cava) my attitude to illness is to pull out every stop, to fight every step, to do anything and everything to alleviate, prevent or cure illness. My attitude is that death lies ahead of me, opting out of unnecessary suffering en route is a no-brainer.

Bx

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

That's the thing, Bec - I've seen people suffer and receive blood then suffer some more because of it. If there were artificial blood, a fluid that would transport oxygen and be processed by the liver and kidneys and move out of the system as new blood was made by the body, that would be a LOT better than having the blood donor system. Which is why I wouldn't receive another's blood voluntarily: I don't want their illnesses!

It can be done, if only there's a push for it. Which there isn't at the moment.

[Olive]

i also recieved a blood transfusion after my DD2 birth, 2 units due to PPH, i greatfully excepted it as im not sure how i would have coped post birth had i not! i was extremely fatigued. i also continued to see my TCM and have accupunture and herbs for a few weeks post birth in order to increase my blood supply. if i were you then perhaps look into either storing your own blood or seeing a TCM before and after birth

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

On the contrary Bx - I'm interested in EVERYONES opinions, not just the ones that agree with mine I think I understand your view, and I think the difference between us is that I'm not afraid to die, KWIM? I believe that I will come back in time anyway, so I'm not in fear of my life ending, whether its at 102 or tomorrow. Correct me if I'm wrong

AJP - I'm glad it worked for you, that sounds scary! IRT storing my blood for future use, this is something that is also prohibited from my religious standpoint, as it becomes a broken circuit - whereas I would accept dialysis or a cell saver, as the circuit is simply made a bit longer, but not broken at any time, KWIM?

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

It can be done, if only there's a push for it. Which there isn't at the moment.

Exactly Lady Zaidie - very well put!

[HotI]

I'm curious about other people's thoughts on this topic - my religion dictates that we don't accept blood, but having researched it, I personally would stay away from blood even if I wasn't a JW.

Just wondering what you found in your research, and how it influenced your thoughts.

Ta

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Kate07 - thanks for asking! There are still many things that we can't screen for in blood, so when receiving someone else's blood, the body has to continue trying to heal the original injury/trauma, PLUS deal with whatever has been in the blood transfusion. Most people will have a reaction to a blood transfusion anyway, as it is essentially a foreign body, much the same as receiving an organ and having to take anti rejection meds.

In the case of severe blood loss, more often than not a blood volume expander can be used instead of a direct transfusion. The body will automatically make more blood, but sometimes we lose it too fast, and that's where the expander comes in - obviously expanding volume until our own system can catch up.

I read a study a few years ago about 2 patients who both had open heart surgery - one had a transfusion and the other refused for religious reasons. While both lived, the post-op recovery time for the patient who received the transfusion was far longer than the patient who didn't. Obviously they would both have had different lifestyles etc that may have helped the outcome, but I think it definitely shows the effect a blood transfusion can have on an already sick patient, KWIM?

While it has been a slow process, bloodless medicine is starting to be recognized for its benefits. As far as I know, it is now being taught in med schools, as opposed to the old 'give them a pint of blood just to be sure' mentality. It also promotes more care and attention on the part of the doctor and surgeon - not having the 'safety net' of a blood transfusion, they are forced to pay closer attention to what is going on, before anything becomes a major problem.

There are plenty of sites on the subject - I don't think I can post links, but you can just google bloodless medicine or bloodless surgery

EDIT: I've always thought it strange when doctors give a patient who is losing blood MORE blood - wouldn't it be more effective to find where it's leaking from? It seems like putting more water in a bucket because it has a hole in it, KWIM?

[paradise lost]

Lady Zaidie, i would take a cold over death any day. I can remember watching my mother get blood after her hysterectomy when she was first diagnosed with cancer (she'd lost a lot during the op due to being on blood thinners for an unrelated but potentially fatal heart condition) and she got visibly better and stronger by the hour. Perhaps that's not the case for everyone, but she can't be a rarity or the practice wouldn't continue surely? Blood protocols improve constantly, and though obviously there are risks to receiving blood, there are risks to NOT recieving any too. I agree the "give em a pint" mentality is fairly pointless, especially after childbirth when we have more blood ANYWAY, but in cases when it is blood-donation or death, rather than blood donation or chlorophyll for a fortnight, i definitely think it is a risk worth taking for me.

Sunflower i'm not actually very worried about dying, but i am very concerned about leaving my daughter without a mother when she is only 3, about leaving my partner alone to fight over who raises her with my XP... I am completely confident they could cope without me, but i believe i owe it to them to try as hard as possible to stay with them. I also feel that it is a natural state of life to reject death and fight it. My mother had completely accepted that she would die, and was unafraid of death but just before she lost consciousness for the last time she rose from bed screaming for her mother and for us to help her. The "death rattle" breathing so many display before death is the combination of adrenalin and powerful electrical impulses from the dying hindbrain forcing the lungs to go on breathing even when the point of no return has passed. Even when the mind accepts death the body does not. Since i feel the only part of me i might keep some of after death is my mind, i also see the point of this life being related strongly to my body, and so i would honour the physical self's need to fight to live as long as i could.

Bx

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Ooh, somehow I missed that you had replied Bx, sorry

I think I understand where you're coming from re: trying as hard as possible to stay alive. I also agree that it is natural to fight death For me, I don't think a blood transfusion is the best option, or worth the potential side effects, but that's my opinion only. Being okay with dying doesn't mean you just lay down and let it come, but it takes the fear out of death I think, because we all know its going to come. Hopefully not for quite a few years yet though!

Thanks for continuing to share

[HotI]

I am not scared of dying, but if it can be prevented by a blood transfusion, i will take it bc i then have the potential to do things here that would be impossible if i was dead.

I have been a blood, and plasma, donor for many years and if i ever need it i am glad it will be there for me.