Ignorant comment (LONG)

[LadyNoor]

Okay, I needed to share & vent about this. I wrote this on my personal blog, as a piece of note that I finally in peace with my informed decision to have VBAC. After weighing the risks and benefit between VBAC & repeat C/S. As most of you probably know it's not always easy to make such a decision. Then one of my 'good' friend wrote a comment which I think a bit confronting and I felt quite upset about it. My husband told me just to ignore it and don't get upset by it, and to keep focus with our goals - which was very sweet... But I can't help but feeling annoyed.

Note her father is an obstetrician, and I think she feels the need to 'defend' him. By all means I wasn't attacking OBs of their professions, I think I was just expressing myself and what I feel regarding my decisions in having VBAC.

My original posting:
Why I choose to use my vagina this time
I was told that I would never be able to deliver my baby vaginally due to my small pelvis. I was also told that my baby would be big. Understandably I was devastated after my caesarean-section to find out that my baby wasn't big at all, she was an average healthy-sized 3.34kg baby (don't get me wrong, I was grateful and always will be that my daughter was born perfect and healthy, I just thought the caesarean-section wasn't necessary and it wasn't the way I wanted to birth my daughter).

Followed by an infected scar which required me to take antibiotics for 2 weeks, and if you can try and imagine breastfeeding a baby with a healing scarred uterus which contracting strongly during breastfeeding process - well, it hurts (not to mention that I had to deal with all of those while caring for a newborn baby with just my husband, he was great in sharing the job and I was lost when he had to go back to work).

And after a long and painful recovery that went on for months, I was starting to question if my decisions to blindly follow my obstetrician's advice was right for me. I started to educate myself about the truth of giving birth.

First thing I found out is that a woman's body don't produce a baby they can't birth unless there are complications, such as developing Gestational Diabetic during pregnancy which can resulted in big babies (macrosomia). Secondly, I found out that unless there's anomaly in the woman's pelvis outlet there's no reason why she can birth the baby through her pelvis. Pelvis outlet is not rigid, the bones that form the pelvis are glued together by sets of muscles (ligaments) which enable them to move to accommodate the baby passing through from uterus through vagina and out.

So, I was a first time mother who thought my obstetrician would give advice that reflect my best interest as his patient. It's not always the case...

I don't know exactly the reasons of him giving me such a misleading advice, but I learned that doctors/obstetricians usually like to 'play it save' to avoid litigation. Insurance plays a huge role in the process of their decision-making, meaning it's all about the money.

For a long time I refused to believe that, that giving birth is an industry - but it is. Doctors, as any other professionals or occupations, need to make money, and they need insurance to keep their business going and insurance won't cover them if they're not giving their patients advices of what they think is best, not what the pregnant woman thinks is best...

I know now that what happened wasn't entirely my fault, I learned that first time mothers usually very trusting. And nothing's wrong with that. We, humans, tend to give our trust easily. It's just human nature...

Although I think my one and only mistake was that I was ignorant...

Perhaps this should happen to me as a great experience which taught me to question every advice given, whether it's the right one for me. I've realised even much more now that knowledge is the most powerful tool. It doesn't mean you need to go to college when deciding about something, but to make an informed decision is always considered a responsible act compare to 'just go with the flow'. This experience taught me that to make an informed decision required research, research, and more research..

It is easy to blame someone else, which I did to my former obstetrician. I used to hate him so much until I realised he was just trying to cover his ass and he had the right to do so. I, on the other hand, didn't do my homework and was just thinking he knew what's best for me. I'm glad that I no longer have hatred towards him or the decision I made at that time.

It's nearing the end of my pregnancy, from now I can only try my best and pray for the best for my baby and myself. I don't know what the outcome will be but I know I will be in peace with it because I know now no one else possibly know what's best for me but myself...

Comment form my 'good' friend:
Whohooo of course giving birth is an industry. Dunno about Oz but in here it is :-D Gynaecologists are one of the big five doctors (along with surgeons, eye doctors, pediatricians) that make big buckets of money!

Dad often tells my friends & my patients, if they want to have C-section and do not plan to have the baby normally, they really, really should decide early enough. People who can't (and won't nor wouldn't) stand pain like me should simply decide to go with voluntary C-section. You know why? Because giving birth normally and then failing to "perform" on the D-day, or not having enough power to push or stand the pain will cause the doctor to decide on C-section at one point.

(Happened to DJ for example). And the C-section on the spot (sudden decision) costs hell a lot of money buckets too :-D Go ask DJ. It would've been a lot cheaper if she had done it voluntarily, but you never know. It all depends on the 3P : power, passenger, and passage. Sometimes, it's all relative and what the doctors predict (to be on the safe side...) are not always what the mother wants, but hey... you need to decide with your brain, and not your heart. You'll know it yourself and don't dwell on the past, and don't make it your personal revenge, ok? :-D

In the end, when the baby is born, I don't think it really matters anymore what happened in the past 9 months, right? (Yeah, this coming from a person who does not know what it's like to give birth... let alone recover hahahaha)

Anywayzzzz... all the best for whatever you're deciding for yourself. Happy expecting (literally!)

[HollyC]

The thing that strikes me about your friends comment is that it doesn't seem to have much to do with what you were saying. To me it just seems to defend c/s births and say that OBs are better at making the decisions.

I can understand why it annoyed you, but I agree with your husband. Best to ignore it because it is just sooo dumb!


In response to your blog post... I know how you feel. I have learned that I have to question and be informed about all aspects of my health. Doctors don't always give you all the information you really need to make a fully informed decision. But when it comes to giving birth in particular, OBs do this every day and as a mother we do it a few times in our lives. We have such different perspectives on the same event. An OB (and lots of women) might not think a c/s is a big deal, but to many of us it is. Therefore, we need to assert our needs.

Anyway, that's just what I think about the issue. And I have learnt to be very careful who I talk to about vbacs because I too get frustrated by some of the dumb comments people make!

[Just Me]

Whoa!!! I would be pretty pinged too. I don't think she is just defending c-sections because her father is an ob, it sounds like she is planning on having an elective one when she has kids. I think the things you said in your post may have been a bit confronting for her.

I have had 2 vaginal births and one c-section and if she doesn't like pain, I would be telling her to avoid the c-section. Vaginal birth is not a walk in the park, but I would prefer my 42 hour labour with a posterior baby anyday over a recovery from a c-section.

In response to your blog post - I really hope that you get your VBAC! Good on you for trying. If I have another baby, I would love a VBAC. Many of your thoughts in your post very much reflect the things I have been processing since I had my c-section (mine was for a footling breech baby that weighed over 4.1kg - I did have gestation diabetes).

I really felt like I was the one with the highest stakes, but the least amount of knowledge. It's not for lack of trying to gain knowledge but I turned up to the hospital after 45 mins of labour and was 9cm dilated and there was no choice given. I was told to lie still because if my waters broke they would give me a general instead of just a spinal block and they gave me a needle in my stomach to stop the contractions. I was so stressed and panicked, I was not in a state to argue or even question what was going on (the medical staff were all panicking and stressed too) but now I wonder if it was completely necessary. My body seemed to be doing it's thing quite well without assistance.

I don't think obs always know best. I think they have a lot of knowledge, but I also think they operate out of fear a lot of the time. They don't trust nature to take it's course.

I also disagree with your friend about what happened in the 9 months leading up to the baby being born not being important - all that stuff is important. The things that we do while we are pregnant can shape our babies lives - we have to eat a balanced diet, steer clear of drugs, alcohol and cigarettes and keep our bodies healthy to give our babies the best start in life. The consequences of those things are a lot more ongoing than just throughout pregnancy.

I think the way that our babies are born and the scars their births leave on our bodies are also important. And it is not just physical scars, but emotional scars as well. I think having a c-section may be much easier to recover from emotionally if you are sure that it was necessary. But even then, there can be feelings of disappointment that things didn't go according to plan. All of those things can affect how we feel about ourselves as people and even how we feel about our babies. It is important.

I don't really know what you should do with her comments. I agree her post is made in complete ignorance but I guess it depends whether she is going to listen to you or not. It doesn't sound at all like she really heard what you were saying in your post and has run off on her own agenda. I don't know that it would be worth trying to discuss it with her.

Good luck for your VBAC! I hope it is a great success story

[Mad Scientist]

Like she said, it's coming from someone who doesn't know what it's like to give birth, let alone recover. Take with a grain of salt and roll your eyes. Maybe she was drunk because all she does is ramble on. Good luck with your VBAC x

[LadyNoor]

Holly,
I really hate to think it's coming out of a friend's mouth, it probably wouldn't bother me much coming from a stranger (but I could be wrong as some people can be so cruel in commenting on VBAC!!).
You're so right about how many women don't think a c/s is a big deal, I know I do. Especially after I educate myself and realised the risks involved it makes me shudder everytime, lucky I had no further complications afterward.

I see your due date is approaching fast (I'm just a week behind you!), wishing you all the best for your VBAC

Just Me,
I'm sorry how your last birth turned c/s and the long recovery period after. I believe it's trickier with breach babies as less and less OBs & midwives know how to help to deliver these babies these days, plus you had a big baby I can imagine how this could cause panic to the hospital staff. And it's not your fault at all to trust your caregivers, in the end we can only hope for the best...

Ah yes, the dumbest statement would be her comment about how 9 months pregnancy isn't important. It's so shocking coming out from her, she's a well educated woman coming from a well educated family but I guess some educated people can be dumb at the same time!!

I agree with you about the not just the physical scars but there are emotional scars about birthing a baby. I really believe that at least I'll be in peace knowing I've tried my best to give the best birth for my baby and myself. From there, (again) we can only hope for the best...


Thank you both for your comments, I do too hope that it'll be a successful VBAC

As for her dumb comment I think I'm just going to ignore it, it's not worth to try and discuss this with her. It seems she's already planned her c/s way well in advance and she really had to say something about it.

I feel much better now, because for a minute there I thought I was being selfish and playing martyr especially that her comment include the word "revenge". As Holly said, to some of us c/s is a big deal...

[LadyNoor]

Like she said, it's coming from someone who doesn't know what it's like to give birth, let alone recover. Take with a grain of salt and roll your eyes. Maybe she was drunk because all she does is ramble on. Good luck with your VBAC x

Thanks NikW, I can even see the funny side of it now
I was so annoyed I didn't think the possibility of her being drunk and ramble on... Yeah, what does she know about giving birth

[fourthontheway]

She seems to have missed your whole point ... which is a reflection of how disempowered she feels in her body, not a prediction of how you will cope with real birth. It's very sad that she missed the whole point of your blog post, and it's very sad that she has so little faith in women's bodies to "just give birth".

I wish you luck! May you "just give birth" beautifully!

[HollyC]

Holly,
I really hate to think it's coming out of a friend's mouth, it probably wouldn't bother me much coming from a stranger (but I could be wrong as some people can be so cruel in commenting on VBAC!!).

Yes, it is hard to hear things like that from a friend. You would like to think that she would be supportive. I got an email from a friend the other day saying I must be getting excited now, apart from the birth part. She can't understand that giving birth could be something to get excited about. She has also made lots of strange comments about breastfeeding, assuming that I will use formula even though she knows that I exclusively breastfed DD.

My point is that this person is a great friend and has made an effort to stay in touch when other friends haven't. The problem is that she can't relate to what is happening in my life. I'm hoping that once my friends start having babies they might be a bit more supportive and understanding. Although I have been lucky not to have many comments like yours!

I hope you are feeling better now and good luck with your birth!

[NaeNae]

I personally do not find anything that she has written to be terribly offensive its just her opinion really.
I do get the impression though that she has not had kids yet ?? Is it possible that her father is one of "those" Obs who are knife happy??

The thing that gets me a bit with her response is that she seems so sure and that could be part and parcel to do with the fact that her father is an Ob and would rather do a c-sec rather then encourage a VBACI s'pose us VBAC'ers carry a slightly higher risk factor??

I would also ignore her comments, she is very UNeducated on the subject really and FWIW maybe the cost factor for private patients is what she is talking about but I went public for my Emergency C-Sec and also for my VBAC and the cost was the same ...... we outwardly paid nothing.

Keep focussed on the job at hand hun, you're making a well educated decision and you CAN do it.

much love and hugs

Nae x

[JellyBean]

Yep - ignore her. She's ignorant - understandably. She's never given birth, and she's probably heard many comments by her Dad which have unconsciously moulded her perceptions which are very fear based and disempowering to the female body in general. When she falls pregnant be sure to give her a copy of Henci Goer's book - The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth!

One thing that gets me is that people think you are just being selfish - that you somehow care more about having a magic birth experience than the wellbeing of your child, when we all know this is nonsense. The evidence supports that the natural birth experience is what is best for BABY - emotionally and physically. So by fighting for this right we put our baby's rights first - not only our own.

You need to surround yourself and your baby with positive energy and positive supportive people right now. Trust in your body, your baby and mother nature - for the innate wisdom of these 3 sources are far greater than any person standing by in a white coat and a medical degree - or a peice of scanning equipment, for that matter. Women have been giving birth for centuries without a single hand laid on them.

I suggest you have a look into the calm birthing and hypnobirthing techniques - these really helped me to have an empowering intervention-free labour 2nd time around.

You can do it!! All the very best...

XX

[LadyNoor]

Thank you ladies for all of your positive replies
Did I say how I appreciate this forums as I know I will find those who have gone through same/similar things and find great supports!


Forthontheway,
Yep, she's gotta say something about her opinion and just missed my point. I love your term "just give birth", and that's exactly what I'm going to do!

Holly,
I also had similar experience with breastfeeding. She probably thought those sore/cracked nipples, engorgement, etc are just me being a martyr. She didn't understand how easy breastfeeding is once established and how my child benefits from it her immune system is so good she rarely gets sick, and she's a very active 4 yo who rarely has a break during the day!

Nae,
I think the one that REALLY gets me is that she thinks I have a "personal revenge" which she probably assumed towards OBs, which I don't. And that I "dwell" in the past which I don't either. I don't think she will understand, not now and maybe never, has she gone through labour/birth or not, what my point is all about. I could try and explain until I turn green and I'd be just wasting my time & energy!

JellyBean,
Wouldn't that be really funny! I'll definitely send her that book, if she refused to be informed and open her mind a little well it'd just make her ramble more


Thanks again ladies, all the best to all of you too!

[Toomanytoomany]

I'm an intelligent person, I've read her response to you about three times, and I still can't actually understand what she's saying!

I like your line, by the way, "Why I choose to use my vagina this time"!

[Tinks]

I don't really understand her point either. Is she a Dr?

As she said she's never given birth so don't worry about her and if she thinks being pregnant isn't important she's got another think coming. Delete her post.

[blackduckies]

Look at it from the other side of the fence if you value her friendship, just as you are hurt by her comments ( most likely influenced by her father) she seems to have felt personally attatcked by you, it is an emotional subject..and like anything emotional, the worst comes out in people...I think the best thing you can do is what you decided to do and go for your VBAC and put her comments aside. To be a successfull VBACer you need to feel the way you do, otherwisethe negativity creeps in and thats when it goes pear shaped.
Wishing you the best of luck.

[LadyNoor]

Toomanytoomany,

I'm an intelligent person, I've read her response to you about three times, and I still can't actually understand what she's saying!

I find it very funny!

I like your line, by the way, "Why I choose to use my vagina this time"!

Me too! I think it's very catchy

Tinks,
No, she's not a Dr. Her dad is an OB.. Yep, hopefully when she falls pregnant she'll take some time to learn about pregnancy and do the right thing for her baby...

Blackduckies,
Thank you, Pam.. No, I won't let her or any negativity mess up with my state of mind especially it's almost time for me to meet bub.
I don't know anymore if I still value her friendship as I used to be, for the time being I'll keep her at an arm length and then I'll see it from there...

[Mummato2]

Yep - ignore her. She's ignorant - understandably. She's never given birth, and she's probably heard many comments by her Dad which have unconsciously moulded her perceptions which are very fear based and disempowering to the female body in general.

I absolutely agree with this.

My mother is a midwife - but she isn't a very wholistic midwife. She believes in episiotomies, epidurals, inductions, laying on your back to push and believes water births are dangerous (just to give you an idea of some of her beliefs)

I grew up listening to her opinions and am embarrassed to say they formed the way I birthed my first baby and I was floored when after the birth I didn't understand why I had disappointment and anger.

Well this time I've butted heads with her because she pretty much told me my birth plan was dangerous and ridiculous and if I hear come out of her mouth one more time that all I need is my waters broken - I will neck her.

Hopefully your friend will empower herself when she decides to have kids, or her first will be with her fathers influence. At the end of the day so long as she is happy with her birth choice then that's all that counts.

FWIW there are so many options for women giving birth - some prefer c-sections or inductions, some want it totally natural. Whichever you choose, so long as your decision is informed, then that's the right decision