Passive Aggression... Why?

[Rouge]

I often wonder this.

I've seen some of the most amazing and wise people succumb to the evils (and IMO it is evil) that is Passive Aggression to get their way or their point across (which has in turn caused my opinion of them to plummet dramatically). I don't know how anyone can not see they aren't being Passive Aggressive? Or manipulative or indirect or any of these traits that seem to go hand in hand. But I often wonder is it learnt, or are we all born this way? And if we're not born this way is there a point in our lives when we reach a certain age that we become more and more Passive Aggressive? And are people Passive Aggressive because they are trying to be politely aggressive? Or is it pure manipulation?

I. Just. Don't. Geddit.

I hate it. I hate that people who use it as a form to get what they want do not see that other's see what they are doing and don't respect them as a result. They might get their way but what do they lose in the process? I hate that I've noticed the older women get the more passive aggressive they become and it scares the life out of me as I do not want to become that way. I know people who can ONLY communicate passive aggressively.

[LionsandBears]

I'm not sure why - I have family members who use this and it does my head in I now have a very strong passive aggression radar and I can get quite actively aggresive when I hear it. I am extremely contemptuous of that kind of behaviour.

I honestly don't believe most people know they're being passive aggressive/manipulative/ employing emotional blackmail. Maybe they've never learnt honest, open communication? It seems to be an extension of toddler behaviour to me - if X doesn't work to get what I want, I'll try Y. I think it's immature and disrespectful, to themselves and the other person.

I believe it's a power/control thing. The more people feel like they're losing control of something, the more manipulative or passively aggressive they'll become, rather than accept they can't always get what they want.... for some reason that behaviour is often highlighted in the numerous complaints about MIL's that are documented on this forum. In those instances, it's often a power play against the DIL to maintain control of the son/access to grandkids.

Try calling people on it and see the reaction though. Usually defensive and offended - few people will accept they're being less than honest. They often behave like children when they're called on it, complete with sulks, tantrums, etc I've found with certain people, I can't win, so I try to limit time with them - they don't understand and my pulling away seems to make them want to control me more through more passive aggression, which exaserpates the situation....

My main way of dealing with passive aggression is not to react in front of the person doin it or ignoring the whole conversation that lead to it. An example - I asked my Dad for a framed pic of me as a toddler that he has. He keeps it in his wardrobe. Because I wanted it, it became valuable, so he refused, perhaps expecting to be able to control me or have me get upset and beg. I was upset, but not in front of him. I've ignored it, limit my time with him and have relearnt not to ask anything from him again. Such a stupidly small thing. Previously I would have been really upset and got into an argument. Now I don't waste my time or energy.

[Rouge]

Try calling people on it and see the reaction though. Usually defensive and offended - few people will accept they're being less than honest. They often behave like children when they're called on it, complete with sulks, tantrums, etc I've found with certain people, I can't win, so I try to limit time with them - they don't understand and my pulling away seems to make them want to control me more through more passive aggression, which exaserpates the situation....

This is sooo true! I've started ignoring it too, because I've found the same. Thou doth protest too much. And the bizarre thing is if it were in reverse you would be hounded for an apology and once again be told how hurtful you are as a person. So you cannot win. And you're right about the emotional blackmail responses too, I had forgot about them.

[Oorki Galoorki]

I think alot is because we are told aggression/anger isnt good. so people let it off passively thinking that is ok.

i too get annoyed with it but have started to work on pulling people up on it

[Rouge]

But do you find pulling up works? I have found that when I try and pull people up on it they act all hurt and deny it completely, which then makes me wonder was that the whole goal

[Astrid]

I think it is a number of factors.

Politeness: We are taught to be polite, often not to argue, not to offend people. Fair enough, but often it is to the detriment of getting our own opinion across. Also as we are not taught to speak out minds respectfully, we are also not taught how to deal with others when they do try to get their point across. Often we see them as rude, selfish, arrogant etc, when all they are trying to say "I don't want to go to .....because of very valid reason". Very much a what will people thing attitude from my mothers generation. Smile to your face, then b!tch behind their back.

Fighting fair: I doubt many of us have been taught to fight fair. I was brought up to screaming, slapping and holes in walls. DH was brought up to silence, you don't dare say what is wrong or to even correct a family member's negative behaviour. Neither is right when it comes to fighting. So he wont listen to me when I scream, but then he won't listen when I talk. Very passive aggressive of him.

I need to come back to this. No space at the moment

[briggsy's girl]

sometimes it's deliberate manipulation. sometimes it's unconscious (and probably comes across very differently to what is intended). i know i've succumbed to the "evil" - usually i'm pretty to the point though. some of it comes down to interpretation as well

i would hope if anyone had a problem with something i've said they'd take it up with me - but then, i guess if you try to explain something it could be seen as denial. damned if you do, damned if you don't i guess....

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

TBH, I find it fairly hurtful that being passive aggressive is seen as being manipulative. I fully admit that I am passive aggressive - I absolutely HATE direct confrontation. I believe that passive aggression can be a nicer way to get a strong point across, because most of the time, if someone starts off by telling you you're wrong, it gets your back up.

I don't see it as being manipulative - I supposed it could be used that way, but this is not what I do. I just find it more respectful when 'confronting' someone to do it gently rather than saying 'You're wrong and I'm going to pull you up on it now'.

Who said Passive Aggression was worse than Outward Aggression?

[LionsandBears]

Naming it can be useful, but normally just for me - it gets a message across about what I'll accept and what I won't, IYKWIM.

Saying "I find that very controlling" or "I feel like when you say X, you are trying to control me and that makes me feel angry/resentful etc" can help me. Most passive aggressive types will deny it and try to turn it on you, cos they can't accept they're wrong. I just shrug and stare them in the face while they're trying it on. Then change the topic.

Often though, I just can't win, so don't bother. You just get in a huge argument, where you're the nasty pasty who made them upset. Remember, they're trying to control something whilst feeling out of control. Being called on it makes them feel even more out of control. The best way to deal with it is to positively reinforce non-controlling behaviour/words (assuming you know they're not controlling you) and ignore the controlling stuff. They learn the only way to get what they want is to be honest/open. Yes, it is like training children, but when adults act like children, I treat them that way (though not obviously I hope). Unfortunately I don't have a poker face, so if I think someone's out of line, it usually shows on my face straight away, which can cause problems enough.

I think the other thing is over time, except for my Dad, I managed to lose other manipulative/passive aggressive types in my life, just by not reacting to it. It's hard when it family, but not buying into it with friends usually means they either stop it or we don't stay friends. That can be very painful at the time, but the pain of being manipulated by friends ended up with me making a choice about what kind of friends I want anyway

btw - so I don't sound completely holier-than-thou. I'm like this because I was raised having to deal with the continual head banging frustration of passive aggression in my immediate family. I absolutely loathe it. However, when I feel like I can't get my own way, occassionally I've behaved like this myself. I try hard as hell not too, but I've noticed what I'd call typical female indirectness in conversations with DH. Either he pulls me up on it or I realise what I've done and fess up. It's usually when something is very important to me and I feel stuck or emotional about the best way of addressing it. So, I'm also continually learning to be more open and honest. The downside of being exposed to a master manipulator is you learn very early how to do it and it's often the easy way out when dealing with others. In my past, I've used it on previous bf's, which just ended up making me feel like a complete b****, so I stopped and tried another way.

[Rouge]

There's a big difference between subtlety and passive aggression. I think what you are talking about as passive aggression and what I am talking about are two totally different things. And I think passive aggression is way worse than outward aggression. The type of passive aggression I am talking about is changing your facebook status to something about someone who you know will know it's about them, however when you confront them on it they act all innocent, knowing full well they've hurt you. If I've upset you... tell me. I am not going to guess because you can't handle a discussion about it. If you have something to say to me, say it to my face rather than in some round about kind of way to others knowing I'll over hear it (or see it). If this is what you are talking about Berenice then I don't really know what to say. It's hurtful being on the receiving end of passive aggression. And that hurt tends to fester a lot longer than outward aggression. Why be aggressive at all? Can't you get your point across without being aggressive?

[Heaven]

Berenice- it doesn't sound like you're being passive aggressive? Trying to tell someone that you don't agree with them in a nice way I don't think is passive aggressive. I think being PA is when someone is pretending that they're being nice when really they are being aggressive iykwim??

My SIL is the queen of passive aggression, I hate it!! She's great for a backhanded compliment any day.

ETA- Oh snap Rouge, you said the same thing.

[Rouge]

What she said LOL! Thanks Heaven

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Okay, nope, we're thinking of different things Rouge For the record, I have had that kinda thing happen to me, and yeah, hurts like hell! Also can affect a persons mental state, wondering if it was them it was meant for or if they're just oversensitive...

I will admit, I have made status updates before that referred to a certain event - not to catch anyones attention, just because its what bugging me at the moment. And if I was PM'd about it, I would definitely own up. As far as I'm concerned, if you have a problem, either try and fix it or don't bother whinging!



ETA - LOL Heaven, thanks for putting it in simple words for me, sometimes I need it!

[Lulu]

Passive Agressiveness is just a complete lack of honesty in my big FAT opinion.

I don't care for it and I have all but eliminated it from my life. I'm not kidding - all it takes is asking for clarification of the comment (etc).
"I'm not sure what you mean" or "sorry I didn't understand" at the very time of the incident (or whatever) is necessary. I'm not aggressive back, I actually DO want clarification and I'm also letting people know HOW to communicate with me. Don't talk crap and waste my time FFS.

I really don't have time for PA but I also don't assume they always mean it - some people don't know any other way....

[maz]

I have to come back and read this properly cause right now I have 100 things floating around in my head about this and im trying to find a middle ground in there.

In the mean time can someone give me an example of what they consider to fall into this catagory? Just to help me a bit thats all and to see what lies were in regards to it

thanks honey's

[LionsandBears]

Berenice - are you sure you're passive aggressive? As opposed to just finding a nice way to resolve an issue? Passive and active aggression are still aggression, it's just that one is obvious and one is not (the apssive aggressor denies being aggressive). By being covert about they're motives, the passive aggressive person is being manipulative. It can be extremely destructuve in relationships (my little example about the picture is a very minor example) and directly resulted in my parents' divorce and other lovely family situations.

This is opposed to more constructive resolution techniqes, such as assertiveness. Assertiveness is a polite way of getting your message across withour being treated like a doormat (passiveness) but also not getting aggressive (passive or active). The assertive person states the issue and their position and "fights" fair. ie, dealing with the problem, not the person. It took me ages to learn the difference, because I'd never been exposed to it.

Of course confronting someone gently is a great way to go - that's part of assertiveness training. You don't need to be aggressive to get your message across Telling someone they're wrong and you're right is a great way to start a fight. There are levels of how assertive you need to be, depending on the other person and the argument. But manipulating the situation so there is no fair fight is a part of passive aggression and I admit it's one of the things that most gets my back up about that kind of behaviour.

Here's a couple of interesting links explaing passive aggression better than I can:
Passive?aggressive behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Passive Aggressive Behavior - Passive Aggressive Behavior as Covert Abuse

ETA: sorry - seen your post above now. What Heaven said....

[thepixie]

Great thread Rouge..... and great comments so far.... let me ponder, I'll be back

[Fleur]

I tend to agree with Astrid ... I think a lot of it is that people don't know how else to be.
I think some people aren't comfortable being assertive, and they see it as a safe way of digging at someone - because it's not openly out there, they can deny if they are called on it KWIM?