My 3.5mo little girl has been screaming nearly every night, sometimes could be a 10-30 mins, sometimes could be 4-5 hours. I put it down to reflux and under the chemists advice have been giving her gaviscon infant which does relieve her a little. The last few days I've been expressing, which is almost a waste of time as I've never been able to get a lot, partly due to time restraints, partly just me. I've been getting about 80-100mls throughout the day. I have been giving her this expressed milk at bed time which did seem to be helping as a top up.
Last night her screaming got the better of me and I rang the after hours GP service who directed me straight to our local emergency department. The triage nurse directed me back to after hours GP at the hospital and organised an immediate appointment. I was very lucky as the nurse I saw up there was a baby health nurse and we had a great appointment before the wonderful doctor came in and checked M over just to make sure that there was no other problems.
The nurse weighed M, and found that she has slipped from the 50th percentile to just over the 10th I had her weighed about 3-4 weeks ago and from that time til last night her gain was 2gms. The nurse suggested comp feeding, with a bottle late afternoon and then another one before bed using them as top us feeds after offering her a b/feed. I am devastated as I didn't really consider my bub would be starving and this would be causing her to cry each night. I know she still has reflux but it might not be the main cause of her screaming. The nurse suggested that she was happy during the day as she was getting a decent feed in the morning due to my body being rested. I work 9.5hr days (family day care from home - so can feed on demand, but I don't actually get a rest during the day, between the other children, M and paper work) without counting my other children and household commitments.
While I am happy to give her the comp feeds, as her health is so important, I would love to be able to build my milk back up to be able to cut the comp feeds out. Suggestions on this will be appreciated.
Big hugs hun
So glad you took her in at night huh!
DS1 had cronic reflux, so I fed him little and often which was hard cause he was a gutser, I borrowed a front pack and had him that most of the time and I had a muslin nappy on hand all the time. The pack helped alot and was great for bonding.
Im sure you will get her back up to weight soon
Have you rung the ABA line 1800 mum 2 mum
I reckon they, or an LC are your best bet as they will be able to take all your circumstances in to account and give the best advice.
Theres are also meds and herbs and things that are useful to build supply
i got suggested to me to build my milk up a suppliment called fenugreek (something like that) however my milk had completely dried up so i never got a chance to use it but many people ive spoken to swear by this product to build milk back up and you get it from the health shops
hey mollycat - just want to give you some advice... don't guilt trip yourself love! you are doing a great job. it's so hard when they are so young and screaming... what do they want?
i've had the same fears with my ds - his weight gain slowed as reflux has set in too. it's so hard, the reflux screws with their feeding which screws with your supply which screws with their weight... viscious little circle it is!
okay, i've rung the 1800 mum2mum hotline for the ABA a couple of times myself and they rock! they are so good. but i think they'll probably advise you to start pumping/expressing to get your supply up again.
big hugs, hope things start to turn around for you and and your bubba ox
Last edited by grub17; April 7th, 2010 at 02:05 PM.
: clarification
Before you beat yourself up, remember that things don't always go to plan and we must adapt as necessary.
Was the nurse you spoke to an LC? It may be that she's not getting enough milk, or maybe there's something else going on or (very likely) a combination of things. Hope you can get some good advice from the ABA or an LC. Having an LC come to you and getting on top of everything that's going on is probably your best bet.
The best way to build supply is to feed more often. Increasing skin to skin contact may also help, and failing that there are drugs that can increase your supply also. If you can feed again rather than pumping, that is likely to be easier and a more effective way of getting milk out of your breast (more out means more produced).
All the best
lol, Mollycat listen to marcellus! Of course feeding more often is the best and first way to try and increase supply!
what a doofus am I! Just shows how we can get drummed into us that our bodies can't be trusted.
I was reading a bf booklet we got from hospy, it also said when feeding more often also try bub on both sides and when finished the 2nd side put back on the first. personally, i have found my bub will suckle continuously if i feed him laying down when we are both sleepy so maybe that would help too.
oh and if you do pump, don't be put off by how much or little you get. bubs are much more efficient at sucking the milk than the pump.
I rememeber feeling the exact same way in hossy when on about Day 2 a paed came in to review DD (for other issues) right after I had fed her. Thought I was going so well with the BF, she was screaming though and the paed said "No offence but this baby is starving." My heart just about crashed right through the floor.
He was actually the one who suggested to us that we comp feed there in hossy, until my supply increased. My milk didn't come in until about day 5 and she was just so hungry! So we comp fed in hossy and took some bottles and fomula home with us but I am happy to say she didn't need them once my milk fully came in.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is what marcellus has said - things don't always go as planned. Look at the comp feeding as a temporary thing and work really hard to get her back on the BB full time once you sort youselves out a bit.
I also advocate speaking to the ABA or an LC, or going to a BF clinic. Immense help.
Can you take some time off work? I know that's probably impossible with the FDC in your home, but could someone look after all the kidlets and maybe you and DD can spend a few days lounging around in bed, skin on skin and just let her suckle whenever she wants.
I've heard fenugreek is great and there was another as well, I can't remember though. Will post later if I remember it.
Also - lots and lots of water!!! I'd drink between 500-1000mls every feed. Even if you can't have time off work, trying to keep DD in a sling or carrier that you can BF in might help, as would having several bottles of water around the house, so that when you are running around after your charges you can grab water whenever you see it and knock it back.
It can be devestating when you think things have been going well in terms of feeding and then you put your baby on the scales and the weightgain just isn't there. I empathise because I went back to fulltime paid work when my babe was 6weeks old and had plenty of ups and downs with weight gain - but ultimately breastfed him for more than years.
I wonder, did the nurse explain to you how you could increase you milk supply? It's as easy as feeding your baby more often. It's possible your baby was crying from hunger - so feed her more often. There is often a time of the day or the night - usually in the evening - when babies want a cluster of feeds. Those or 5 unsettled hours sound like when she would ideally like to cluster feed - but working on the idea that she has had reflus you have been avoiding this - it's so confusing. This cluster feeding works well for the working mother. Get something to eat, something to drink and flick something watchable on the evening and squeeze in the extra feeds your baby needs. Pop your baby in bed with you - makes night feeding easy - extra feeds help keep the weightgain up, and allows working mums to get more sleep.
The amounts you are expressing are great. Babies this age grow beutifully on 700-800mls per day (and the good news is that you don't need to increase that!) So, with what you are expressing she would need at least 8 feeds in 2hrs. How much are you giving her as a comp? The nurse should have told you how much and given you a plan to increase your supply and wean off the complimentary formula
Thank you everyone for your support, encouragement and advice.
Barb - The nurse said to make her a bottle based on 180mls, which I did, she was only drinking about 100mls, so I've cut back to 120mls. If she really needs more, it's easy to make another. I've been offering her a b/feed before the bottle, sometimes she's happy for that, others she seems so distressed and wants nothing to do with the breast. I will then give her a formula feed, followed by a b/feed. She seems happy to switch between the two. Trying to get a b/feed in before she gets to that "starving" point seems to be working. The screaming for hours before bed seems to have stopped the last three nights. She happily takes a b/feed, formula then another b/feed then will have a lovely cuddle off to sleep and in bed around 9pm. She's been waking about 2-3am for a feed, which I've noticed lasts about 30-60mins. It occured to me this morning, maybe I've been rushing her day feeds due to working, and not wanting to put the other kids out for too long. I'll be monitoring that this week as well.
Not sure how I'll go with cluster feeds after work, it's always such a busy time, Dh thinks because "he's worked all day, he's excempt for doing a lot around here" I think there's big changes in this house. He needs to remember I work too. We rely a lot on our other children as well. The eldest has just picked up a 2nd part time job, which is day time, so he will be around more of an evening then he has in the past with his other job being evenings. They are both great helps.
I try to go lay down with her once the last children have left and have a big feed, doesn't always work, but I'll have to perservere with that.
The nurse didn't suggest other ways to increase my milk supply but I've still be trying to express and feed her more often, it's so hard to fit these in. I went to the health food shop to get some ferengreek yesterday (stupid country towns - it was shut) so I'll have to see if someone can get me some today. We're not allowed to take the day care children to shopping centres.
It sounds like you are really doing well to stick in with breastfeeding -I am sure you have experienced significant weight gains. Good on you for breastfeeding before/after the bottle feeds.
The nurses advice was basically advice that would result in you prematurely weaning your baby. The quantities she suggested would mean that a baby would get all her requirements from the bottle and would be too full to breastfeed.
I wonder how many feeds she is having now in 24hours? Usually babies this age would have more than 8. You might consider cutting out formula altogether at the daytime feeds, and being prepared to feed her more often. Many mothers like to keep a "before bed" bottle - they like the feeling of being certain their baby has had a certain amount of formula and is full and will hopefully sleep a bit more.
Keep doing the great job you are doing - have you been in contact with ABA in your local area? They are a great support.
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