Teachig Snake Saftey! how and what do you teach??

[beckoes]

We are (hopefully) moving to a house with a bit of land in QLD and deffinatly snakes...im from the UK and i think they have adders in scotland, but i dont really know much about snakes...make noise and they run away...hopefully...not much use really!
DD is 22 months and i want her to enjoy the huge outside area we will have, but how do i keep her safe and what do i teach her....i dont want her to be afraid of snakes...but i dont want her to try and hug one if she sees one!!!

What have you taught your kids....or what were you taught as a child??

TIA

[krysalyss]

I have tried to teach DS to be aware that areas with long grass, piles of logs etc. are places where snakes like to hide. He knows that snakes can bite and we never try to touch or hurt one (the majority of people who get bitten were trying to kill it). If he ever gets bitten he needs to tell me straight away for first aid. If he sees one and it is too close to walk away from just stay really still (and yell for me) and hopefully it will just move away. And for you, make sure you know first aid for snake bites and keep the appropriate bandages and contact numbers on hand.
I can't really remember thinking about it too much when I was a kid even though we lived on acreage.

[Aussiegirl777]

We spent most of our younger years growing up backing onto the bush. We had alot of snakes in our yard as kids and thankfully no bad incidents to talk about. We were taught to wear shoes where possible, and when walking in scrubby areas to take solid heavy steps. Snakes can't hear but they feel vibrations - most are quite timid by nature and when they feel you coming they retreat. Keep the yard tidy as I remember one year we put our Christmas tree laying down just outside our front door until council clean up and when we lifted it up 6 little baby brown snakes were living underneath!! For some reason when we were kids I remember not really looking for snakes but always being aware and on the few times that I did come face to face with one, I seemed to sense that one was there. I have know idea why that was. Also if you have a dog they can usual let you know that there is a snake around because they bark like crazy. Well ours did. And recently we had a snake here at this house too and our dogs went beserk. I hope this helps. It's about having respect and may the two never meet.

[beckoes]

thanks both!! very helpfull! krys: need to learn some snake first aid! and aussie girl you so right, its about respect!

[Epacris]

A great question! This is a passion of mine. Krys and Aussie have made some excellent suggestions.

My tips are:
- All snakes are protected and it is illegal (and immoral IMO, and dangerous) to kill them.
- Snakes are much more scared of you than you are of them.
- People are almost always bitten when they are trying to kill a snake.
- Be cautious around snake habitat, long grass, piles of logs.
- Always wear sensible shoes when in snake habitat (and leather gloves if appropriate).
- Learn as much as you can about snakes. Get yourself a snake identification book.
- Learn the correct first aid for snake bite.
- Always carry 4 compression bandages (not crepe bandages) when in snake habitat.
- If you are lucky (IMO ) enough to see a snake, remain calm, walk away.

I have always loved these comments from Brian Bush, a passionate snake advocate:

In the past 40 years I have met many people who believe tiger snakes have chased them. However, I have yet to meet someone that has been caught by one!

More people die each year in Australia from horse riding related accidents than snakebite. We do not go around hitting horses on the head with a shovel! Nor do we have as negative an attitude to Australia's deadliest venomous animal: the honeybee, an exotic introduced from Europe!

Not sure if I’m allowed to post the link, just google “Brian Bush Snakes”.

HTH

[beckoes]

Epacris: awesome!!! thanks so much! off to google i go!

[~Kim~]

We teach DD not to pick up rocks, not to go into long grass and not to dig in garden beds (don't forget about the spiders).
She also knows not to go near, just walk away quietly. But she's 4, not sure how I would have approached it with a littly.
We generally don't let the kids out without shoes either.

[Miss E]

This is a really interesting thread... I lived in the country in north east victoria for the first five years of my life and to be honest as an adult I am now petrified of snakes. I think it is because as a young child I had the fear of god put into me in regard to snakes. I'm sure if we had of lived in the country longer I would've been taught how to 'live with' snakes as I got older and more responsible, but because we moved to the city that never happened.

Yes, I know all the precautions, make lots of noise (not really that difficult for children), if you are going for a walk carry a long stick with you and sweep it in front of you to create vibrations on the ground, wear all encompassing shoes etc, but even now as an adult I feel very uncomfortable/cautious walking around in a country area in the warmer months.

As a parent I think it is a really difficult area. Part of me does think that for young children (under 6) it is necessary for them to have a fear of snakes along with a solid understanding of the precautions, because lets face it if you tell a small child not to touch something, most will out of pure curiousity. When you live in the country the reality is a child will probably spend some time outdoors where they aren't being closely supervised, if they come across a snake you don't want that curiousity to take over iykwim? I think as they get older and develop a better understanding of the world then you can work on turning that fear into a respect. Anyway, that's just my opinion, but I no longer live in the country and I am petrified of snakes so that may be clouding my judgement...

[AnyDream]

From a young age, we have practised saying "Danger! snake" and "Danger! don't touch" when looking at story books with snake pictures...and reinforcing with messages like what would you do if you see a snake in the garden...move away and come and tell a grown up, we don't touch snakes etc. The "Danger!" (said with drama, like an exclamation) word is a handy concept because you can then apply to other situations, like electrical cords and running onto roads, when you need to get their attention fast.

[Inanna]

Great topic to discuss & one I also think is important.
We live in a place that we have lots of snakes. There is a 6ft red belly black asleep today near the cow paddock in the sun. She lives there & has done for a long time. I had a very large python living underneath my house that scared the crappolla out of me numerous times - she was ginormous. HUGE. The snake rescue man came and rehomed her as she ate all of my chookies and I reckon she'd have a go at Gloria the ****z/malt that is part of our family.
My kids go to a school that is set in the rainforest - snakes are a part of daily life. There was one in the bookcase of year 2 a few weeks ago... They live with us & like Epacaris I believe we need to respect them. Snakes bite when they are cornered or scared. Having said that in the 15 year history of our school there has been no snake bites and at least a snake a week in the school. I like to think it's because the kids know what to do. They are trained from kindy. You STOP. You stay STILL. You call for HELP SNAKE. You quietly move away.

I've lived in country areas a good part of my life. Ive come faxe to face with a king brown and a death adder & applied both principals. The death adder when I was a wee 5 year old in an out back dusty town!.

I've treated snake bite in hospital and every person was trying to kill the snake - usually with a shovel...

Me tarzan you jane doesn't work with snakes!

My kids are wary but believe them beautiful and part of the world that we live in. I personally think this is the best ideal to instill...

[Inanna]

Just wanted to add. Take your kids to a snake show - somewhere they can be educated about snakes and taught of their beauty and their rightful place in our world. Yes be wary but really we are more dangerous to snakes than snakes are to us. I personally don't teach that they are dangerous. I teach caution. Don't touch. but I add because you are so much bigger you look scary to the snake & it might attempt to protect it'self as this is it's instinct...

We have a yearly snake demonstraion at school and first aid and identification of snakes & of course how to react is reinforxced to the children...

[beckoes]

some really great advice! thanks! I dont want her to be affraid of them so i think teaching caution and respect is best....but also probably a bit harder!

I have tried to do similar with spiders but for some reason she is freaked out by them! maybe its just instinct, my mum was a screaming mess everytime she saw a spider and i didnt want to put that on DD....even though i want to scream....i even held a bloody daddy long legs that was hidding behind the loo but she wasnt keen on it atall! There was a huge huntsman in the new house when we were looking around and she wouldnt even go in the room.

I think if i saw a snake i would be in such amazment i would probably just stand a stare at it, so i think i have to teach my self as much as i have to teach her! its good to have a little mantra i think....il work on that.
Thanks again

[Inanna]

I am scared of snakes too. As much as I don't want to be they freak me a bit. Having said that they also amaze me completely. I find them fascinating. I am so glad my children respect them, are cautious but don't see them as something to fear.

[~Kim~]

I have tried to do similar with spiders but for some reason she is freaked out by them! maybe its just instinct, my mum was a screaming mess everytime she saw a spider and i didnt want to put that on DD....even though i want to scream....i even held a bloody daddy long legs that was hidding behind the loo but she wasnt keen on it atall!

That is so true. My mum was the same and made a huge deals out of all things yuck, so even though on the inside it's awful, I am really aware of the kids watching me. It has paid off. DD used to be pertified of everything that moved, and now through positive exposure she's pretty good. If she sees a spider/lizard/bug of any description/mouse she'll tell her father it's there, but 'don't worry dad mum will take it outside'.
I totally agree with Inanna about the positive exposure to snakes too. We've taken the kids to a few and DD is quite proud about her knowledge.

The thing we've had to scare her about though is crocs and the waterways up here....healthy respect just doesn't cut it with them.

[Epacris]

I just wanted to add that the correct first aid for snake bite is the pressure immobilisation technique (it is quite specific and has changed over the years).

I thought this site described it best: Australian Venom Research Unit or here Pressure Immobilisation Technique

To summarise:

Pressure Immobilisation Technique

The pressure-immobilisation first aid technique was developed in the 1970's by Professor Struan Sutherland. Its purpose is to retard the movement of venom from the bite site into the circulation, thus "buying time" for the patient to reach medical care. Research with snake venom has shown that very little venom reaches the blood stream if firm pressure is applied over the bitten area and the limb is immobilised. Pressure-immobilisation was initially developed to treat snakebite, but it is also applicable to bites and stings by some other venomous creatures. It is currently recommended for most life threatening venomous bites and stings in Australia.

Pressure-immobilisation is recommended for:
- all species of Australian snakes, including sea snakes
- funnel web spiders
- bee, wasp and ant stings in allergic individuals
- blue ringed octopus
- cone shell stings

Do not use pressure-immobilisation first aid for:
- spider bites other than from a funnel web spider
- jelly fish stings
- stonefish and other fish stings
- bee, wasp and ant stings in non-allergic individuals
- bites by scorpions, centipedes, beetles

Bites to the lower limb
1. Call 000 for an ambulance
2. Apply a broad pressure bandage over the bite site as soon as possible. Crepe bandages are ideal, but any flexible material may be used. Clothing, towels etc may be torn into strips. Panty hose have been successfully used.
Do not take clothing off as the movement of doing so will promote the movement of venom into the blood stream. Keep the patient (and the bitten or stung limb) still.
3. Bandage upwards from the lower portion of the bitten or stung limb. Even though a little venom may be squeezed upwards, the bandage will be more comfortable, and therefore can be left in place for longer if required.
4. The bandage should be as tight as you would apply to a sprained ankle. Extend the bandage as high as possible up the limb.
5. Apply a splint to the leg. Any rigid object may be used as a splint. e.g. spade, piece of wood or tree branch, rolled up newspapers etc.
6. Bind it firmly to as much of the leg as possible.
7. Keep the patient still. Lie the patient down to prevent walking or moving around. Have the patient taken immediately by ambulance to the emergency department of the nearest hospital.

Bites to the hand or forearm
1. Call 000 for an ambulance
2. Bandage as much of the arm as possible, starting at the fingers
3. Use a splint to the elbow
4. Use a sling to immobilise the arm
5. Keep the patient still. Lie the patient down to prevent walking or moving around. Have the patient taken immediately by ambulance to the emergency department of the nearest hospital.

Bites to the trunk
1. Call 000 for an ambulance
2. If possible apply firm pressure over the bitten or stung area. Do not restrict chest movement. Keep the patient still. Have the patient taken immediately by ambulance to the emergency department of the nearest hospital.

Bites to the head or neck
1. Call 000 for an ambulance
2. No first aid for bitten or stung area. Keep the patient still. Have the patient taken immediately by ambulance to the emergency department of the nearest hospital.

Additional information:
- Research stresses the importance of keeping the patient still. This includes all the limbs.
- Do NOT cut or excise the bitten or stung area
- Do NOT apply an arterial tourniquet. (Arterial tourniquets, which cut off the circulation to the limb, are potentially dangerous, and are no longer recommended for any type of bite or sting in Australia.)
- Do NOT wash the bitten or stung area. The type of snake involved may be identified by the detection of venom on the skin.

Note: Even if the bitten or stung person is ill when first seen, the application of pressure-immobilisation first aid may prevent further absorption of venom from the bite or sting site during transport to hospital. If the bandages and splint have been applied correctly, they will be comfortable and may be left on for several hours. They should not be taken off until the patient has reached medical care. The treating doctor will decide when to remove the bandages. If a significant amount of venom has been injected, it may move into the blood stream very quickly when the bandages are removed. They should be left in position until appropriate antivenom and resuscitation equipment has been assembled. Bandages may be quickly reapplied if clinical deterioration occurs, and left on until antivenom therapy has been effective.