Please help...advice with 3yr old needed!

[Beckibee]

Hi guys! Any gentle parenting advice would be greatly appreciated...

My sister has a 3.5 yr old daughter who is testing the boundaries at the moment. She is tantruming and answering back; no amount of verbal warnings & reasoning seem to be successful at the moment.

My sister's DP doesn't believe in spanking at all (he was abused as a child); however my sister believes spanking as an ultimate resort when nothing else works. Miss 3.5 is very strong willed & stubborn; if she is asked to do anything that she doesn't want to do (ie. naps or told she can't have something she wants) then parents/carer at the time gets a very firm 'no', and Miss 3.5 often goes about doing what she wants.

Does anyone have any step-by-step process they have successfully used with a child of this age? We realise this is not an unusual behavioural pattern for a child of this age; however Miss 3.5 seems to show a real lack of respect for her parents at the moment; so it is something they would like to 'nip in the bud' so to speak....

As I mentioned, ANY advice is greatly appreciated. My sister has tried the warning through to spanking 'method' to no continual success so she would prefer to try a gentle parenting method!

Can I just say, that Miss 3.5 is a delightful and intelligent little girl. Her parents (my sister & her DP) have had their relationship issues in the past; thus I think this has had it's impact on their DD.

[BellyBelly]

You say she has a lack of respect - it perhaps sounds like she needs to learn more about consequences. With Marisa, it's taken us a little while to realise that it was simply putting the two together, 'if I do this, xxx will happen.'

It might sound harsh, but the way I am able to get Marisa to respond to me is to give her one warning and that's it. I.e. - if she draws somewhere where she is not supposed to, I will say, Marisa, we don't draw on the walls. If you draw on the walls again, then I will take those textas from you and you can't play with them.' At first she'd test me out and do it again, but she was surprised that I would indeed take them, if she did it one more time. Now, I just have to say, Marisa, we don't draw on the walls. If you draw on the walls again, i will take the textas from you,' and she will stop.

I think at this age they need firm (but fair - pick your battles) consistent boundaries and they need it from BOTH parents. I have been crusing with Marisa's behaviour for some time and have watched John struggle as he keeps threatening 'I'll take it' etc but never follows through straight away. She takes it and runs - as she knows she will get away with it!

At the end of the day you have to do what works for your child, but I find Marisa likes this form of reinforcement, and it's made her behaviour so much more pleasant. They are at the age where they test and push, so you need to show them that these are the rules, they need to stick by them or xxx happens. I think it also makes them alot happier knowing what to expect.

[Beckibee]

I think you're right Kelly. My sister tends to be more firm (do that again and this is the consequence; although at times she will give several warnings...), but to a certain degree I think her DP undermines this by letting Miss 3.5 get away with the things that my sis would pull up.

[Beckibee]

*LOL* Jillian, I know I shouldn't laugh but his description for why it isn't nice to call someone a 'poo-poo' is so cute.

Jillian, your technique sounds alot like the one the Supernanny uses with the 'naughty step/spot/corner' with an age related length of time (ie. 2 minutes for a 2yr old, 3mins for a 3 year old....). Was this the methodology that inspired your discipline styling?

I really wanted to try it on Miss 3.5 when she's in my house because I think it is directed very much to age appropriate understanding/consequences; but obviously it would be difficult for me to implement with her if it isn't what happens at home IYKWIM?

Thank you ladies, I really appreciate these stories & ideas. You can read all the books in the world on discipline but it's particularly worthwhile when you know of a step-by-step method or two that HAS worked in real life.

[Melinda]

I have actually found that even though Jacob is not yet 2, he is a clever little sausage who was also testing boundaries and we really believe he needed to start to understand that when he does X, Y happens...always - no doubt about it - there are always consequences.

If he is doing something he shouldn't be doing, we do a similar thing to what Kelly said - e.g. we will tell him "Don't hit Jacob. We don't hit people - it hurts". If he continues, we say to him "do you want to go into there?" which usually meets with him walking away calmly from what he was doing or immediately stopping. We also say to him "what do we do when we hurt someone? We say sorry and give a kiss and a cuddle" (we like him to understand that he can 'do' something to rectify the situation/the hurt he's caused IYKWIM?). Interestingly enough, he has learnt this, so most of the time (not always) he will come over and give a kiss or a cuddle by way of apology (although he doesn't actually say it - that's beyond his speech abilities ATM).

I should point out that the "there" place that I refer to is actually the playpen LOL, but he KNOWS that he gets put in there for a minute or so if he misbehaves (can you believe we can even say the same line to him if he misbehaves whilst we are out? I'm not sure how long this will last LOL, but for now, the 'threat' that something WILL happen is enough to difuse the situation).

The same applies if he throws a toy - we ask him not to and tell him that we don't throw toys and that it will be taken away if he does it once more. Sure enough, if he does it once more, the toy is immediately removed and he doesn't get it back for the rest of the day.

Having said all of that, we try to be pretty brief with our explanation as to why things are wrong at this stage as we feel that by talking in too much detail about it will only confuse him IYKWIM? I guess we are trying to take into account his age (he's not 22 months yet!), and the older he becomes, the more explanation we will give, just like Jillian does with Lochie and Joshua, i.e. asking them to think about why they have upset Mummy and to say sorry.

[mooshie]

at the risk of sounding like the super nanny pmsl

the two most important things are, in my opinion

1. always get to their level, i learnt this with my first daughter at a parenting workshop type thing. the lady stood on a chair whilst we were all sitting down and started raising her voice and yelling at us - how did we fell - like crap it was awful - try it see how it feels - it is so easy to go about your day and yell and raise your voice at your child, imagine how they feel - get down to their level and make eye contact, makes the world of difference

2. carry out your threats - ie give a warning and a consequence if they do it again, and if they do it then carry out the consequence.

when my ds was younger i started warning him with the old naughty corner and yup it worked but only for a while, he ended up just making a game of it, however when i started confiscating things after warning him well it did work, it is hard when you carry out and do what you said you were going to do, when they cry and promise etc not to do it again, but they do catch on quickly. there were times i missed out on my weekly coffee date with friends and their children or playgroup because of my ds lol, it was hard on me to, but he did learn very quickly.

good luck

[mumofbundlezofjoy]

I too use the corner, the 7 yr olds respond well to it, and the taking away of the priveledges ( TV etc) The nearly 3 yr old is one massive tantrum some days, but a lot of the time its pure frustration, as she cant do what she wants, or communicate it!! I try to see the problem, explain to her to use her words, and if she is still screaming, I hold her and firmly say, "calm down" several times, until she's calm, then we discuss what was wrong. If she is just being naughty, she goes to the corner. My 10 month old, gets a firm "no" when doing something inappropriate ( like chewing a power cord) then I reinforce this, if he continues, I pick him up and move him away from the object,, but a lot of the time I find a few firm no's do the trick, and he goes off anyway.

[lollylegs]

These are all great suggestionsfor at home. But what do you do when you are out? You can't really threaten to take privileges off a 3 year old when you are at the shops or someones house etc as they won't understand when you get home will they? As the consequence is too far in time from the action IYKWIM? So what do you do then? I know you can leave as a consequence but that doesn't work if they don't want to be there in the first place or you really can't leave where you are?

[mumofbundlezofjoy]

At someone else's house, I still use a corner or just face them to the wall.
At the supermarket, I reafirm, to "stop that " and sometimes, I just pick her up and hold her tight, and then talk quietly about why that behaviour is not good. I usually offer a reward if she remains a "good girl" ( like an ice cream after shopping) The main thing I find if out and about in public is not worrying what others are thinking of you and the noise. It is sooo much more important to deal with your child in your way, than whether the lady next to you is glaring at you because of the tears and noise.

[BellyBelly]

If you are at the shops and they are misbehaving they are probably bored / tired and it's probably a good idea to take them home. If you are out, tell them you will go home. It's not ideal for you, but unfortunately taking them out of the situation usually rectifies it. It's all about sacrifice! So just say, if you do xxx again, then we will go home. If they are tired and / or bored and have nowhere comfy to rest (i.e. own familiar surrounds) or nothing that will keep them busy, then I believe their behaviour wont get any better.

[lollylegs]

what else, other than food, can I use as a reward when out shopping? I don't want to reinforce the thought with Talia that food is a thing to make you feel good or because you have been good. Otherwise she will just reward herself with food all the time when she is older IYKWIM. I want her to be happy with the reward that it makes mum happy and that she has been a good girl. I know thats alot to ask a 3yo to understand. Just don't want to use food as a reward all the time.

[lollylegs]

the other thing is I don't want her to think she gets something everytime we go to the shops. arrghhh. So frustrating!!!!

[mumofbundlezofjoy]

I meant anything that is her "bliss" A bike ride is one of Rianna's favourite rewards, or stopping at the park for a swing on the way home, story time, a game of catch when you get home.
I agree Kelly, changing the place is the ideal too, i start to wind up whatever Im doing to take them home ( or to the park) But sometimes I HAVE to go to the supermarket with tired, want to get home kids, as my wake time, between work and sleep is limited 3 days a week, and when you are out of milk.......
I agree food shouldnt always be seen as a reward, it does lead to bad habits, unfortunately that is the way I was raised, and sometimes comes too naturally.

But big big praise from mummy ( I am sooooo proud of you ) does work, just not if overtired, or emotionally drained is on the menu

[BellyBelly]

If it's a short shopping trip, then it's easier than a longer one, as the novelty will wear off, but you could always say, 'Once this shopping is done, how about you and me go and have a hot chocolate together / go to the play centre together / go home and do some finger painting...' anything she likes doing with just the two of you, with undivided attention? Marisa loves stickers, bubbles and balloons too. But if you are going to be a couple of hours, it's going to be hard for her to understand the concept of time and she will be sick of waiting. Always choose the times you go shopping well, avoid food times - I find first thing to be easiest. Let her help you, take things off the shelves, give money etc. Take a family member with you to help is good too. It's not always easy, I could never take Marisa shopping on my own...now she's 4 it's much easier but shorter trips are still the go.

[BellyBelly]

Check out this article too: https://www.bellybelly.com.au/toddle...no-to-tantrums

[lollylegs]

Thanks for that link Kelly. I guess I am just going to have to be patient and follow through on the consequences to bad behaviour. Thanks for those ideas too mumofbundlezofjoy. Will have to try some of those ideas. Shame kids want instant gratification for good behaviour but I suppose we as adults do to so shouldn't expect more from them. Thanks!

[Beckibee]

Ladies, thank you so much for all of your suggestions and positive stories. I'm going to print it all out for my sister and I'm sure she'll appreciate it. Lollylegs, I also appreciate you bringing the scenario of being 'out'n'about' with child & how you discipline them. And also to the girls that addressed this issue too.