Info on the prevalence of children acquiring disabilities after immunisations?

[MrsFabuloso]

First of all, I don't want this thread turning into any kind of debate. All I want is some concrete info, and not reasons why I should/should not vaccinate my kids.

I am wondering if any of you lovely people could help me find any info on how common it is for a child to become disabled/aqcuire an injury after having immunisations.

Everytime I take my kids to be immunised, I feel sick to the stomach. DS2 had his first immunisations on Tuesday and he has been so grizzly and not himself since (I actually think his teeth might be doing bad things to him, but I still worry!), and I can't help but think something is wrong. I worry for days/weeks that any kind of difference in them is due to the immunisations.

I would like to find out if there is any kind of reliable evidence on acquiring things like autism and other disabilities/injuries due to immunisations. But I'm terrible at researching! If anyone knows of research or info that is reputable could you point me int he right direction please?

[Swoop]

Newtown Community Chiropractic do a presentation every so often about immunisation. I haven't been to it myself, but I've been told by a friend that it's very well balanced, factual etc with the emphasis in being informed rather than influencing your choice. I'm on my phone so can't check where you are, but if you're not in Sydney I wonder if they would share the info if you contacted them. You can just google them.

Hope your little one is back to himself asap, I felt the same as you described after DD had her vacc's done.

[Yeddi]

No, there is none that can absolutely prove vaccination and autism damage, but likewise, there is no absolute proof (despite what some people say) that they don't either. This just came out recently...

Vaccines and autism: a new scientific review - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

[~Kim~]

gah that's it Yeddi......knew I had seen something on this in the last 24hours....

[Trillian]

The other problem with finding info like this is that if there are any incidences of injury/disability etc, they are rarely attributed to the vaccine. You might have some luck on the AVN website too.

[HotI]

but likewise, there is no absolute proof (despite what some people say) that they don't either.

How do you prove a negative?

[Yeddi]

How do you prove a negative?

I don't really get your question. You can prove that an event doesn't have a certain effect as well as what effects it does have.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

How do you prove a negative?

I would assume you would do it by proving that the instances of autism or disabilities that occur directly after immunisation are caused by something else, and it's a coincidence that the child was vaccinated recently.

This is my problem too Lilias, I've done research on it, but everywhere you turn people are focussing more on discrediting other researchers than they are on finding out the truth. At the absolute maximum, I would delay and separate my childs vaccinations, because I'm not 100% comfortable with not vaccinating them at all. But I want to be comfortable with it, lol.

[HotI]

I would assume you would do it by proving that the instances of autism or disabilities that occur directly after immunisation are caused by something else, and it's a coincidence that the child was vaccinated recently.

You would have to show the cause of autism in every child, and even then it wouldn't prove that vaccination does not cause autism, just that in the cases you have examined there are other triggers that could have resulted in the autism.

How to prove that vaccines do not cause autism? Showing that autism may be caused by all these other things doesn't prove that autism can not be caused by vaccination. You may be able to say that there is no evidence of a link between the two, but this still doesn't prove that there is no link.

[Yeddi]

Showing that autism may be caused by all these other things doesn't prove that autism can not be caused by vaccination. You may be able to say that there is no evidence of a link between the two, but this still doesn't prove that there is no link.

Ah, that's actually the point I was trying to make, you're saying the same thing just in a different way. My point is that people have done A study on the MMR and then go on to say because they didn't find any link in this one study (that tests vaccinated kids against other vaccinated kids btw) this proves autism isn't caused by vaccination. I actually do believe autism is strongly tied to vaccination and toxic load, so it's not one particular ingredient, or vaccine but is how the child excretes and processes that vaccine and they get autism when they reach the limit where their bodies can't keep up and so any toxins they're exposed to cause damage, seeing vaccines are now given before the cyp450 enzyme system even starts producing the enzymes responsible for processing foreign chemicals the increase in autism doesn't surprise me. I also think the increase in allergies, asthma and diabetes are also strongly connected.

[RockinSAHD]

Thanks Yeddi, I read the article but it appears to contradict itself a few times then spiral into a confused mess.

The article does point out that surveys have been done that compare groups of MMR and nonMMR kids in a population, and that none of these surveys showed MMR children having higher rates of autism. One even showed MMR vaccinated children having lower rated of autism.

Yeddi correctly pointed out that a link can't be disproved this way BUT even if MMR causes autism your children have the same chance having autism wether or not they have the vaccine. Confusing!

Combinations of toxins or buildups may cause autism. If you did similar comparisons comparing kids having had different combinations of vaccines you could show which combinations cause autism and TAKE THE WORLD BY STORM!
Obviously noones done that yet.

Unfortunately the chemicals that cause increased rates of cancer, autism etc could be in our air, water and food.

[JellyBean]

In response to the thread question - the book titled in my sig is a good place to start, if you prefer to access lot of resaerch in one place.

SAHD: Most non-vaxers (esp those within the healthcare industry) would agree with your last statement. Heavy metal contaminants such as aluminium and mercury are present in our food and water. Other vaccine ingredients like polysorbate-80 and formaldehyde are also present in many personal care and cleaning products. However considering that most vaccines contain 2 or more of such chemicals at levels which exceed the recommended limit for human beings (let alone infants), and the current vaccine schedule recommends that children recieve 23 shots by the age of 12 months, then it is undoubtedly plausible to suggest that vaccines are a significant source for toxic accumulation. We do not claim that autism is a condition exclusive to the vaccinated, (there are no doubt countless ways children can be exposed to toxicity in this modern age), only that vaccines significantly increase the likelihood of developing autism, given the type and amount of toxic ingredients therein, and the fact that they are administered intravenously, therefore permitted to bypass our first line of defence, the mucous membranes.

[RockinSAHD]

In response to the thread question - the book titled in my sig is a good place to start, if you prefer to access lot of resaerch in one place.

We do not claim that autism is a condition exclusive to the vaccinated, (there are no doubt countless ways children can be exposed to toxicity in this modern age), only that vaccines significantly increase the likelihood of developing autism,

I would steer clear of 'research' endorsed by the AVN, considering the recent issues in the media...

I'm not sure how MMR possibly increase the likelyhood of developing autism even though children who have the MMR are no more likely to have autism. I realise that your not talking about MMR now and the media focus, now that the MMR link has been disproved, has moved on to some vague combination of vaccines. I'm concerned that real people who don't read books on vaccine research decline MMR vaccines though the link has been disproved and that vaccination rates will decline and preventable deaths increase through propagation of some vague unproven theory.

[Yeddi]

Unproven theories *snort* can you say, "herd immunity", "effectiveness". Why is it, the only time I see your user name is always in singing the unproven benefits and safety of vaccination? And the debate has never been only about the MMR, that's just the one that has been picked up by popular media because of Wakefield (whom, shock and horror, doesn't even factor into many non-vaxers decision making). This however, is an area you always seem to get caught up on from previous experience. Also, I'm looking for where it says anything about "combination of vaccines" other than in your posts. Again, from previous experience, there seems to be a big gulf between what someone actually writes and how you interpret it.

[RockinSAHD]

Im happy to concede if I miss a point, I focus on MMR because even if the anti-vax camp has dropped him long ago, Wakefield was the only hard research showing a link. The same way the media would have picked it up as hard 'evidence' as opposed to the poor attempt at a news report you posted earlier in the thread.

I do sing the praises of vaccinations, the WHO estimates that 2.5 million lives are saved by vaccinations (and endless human misery avoided) ever year, though I know your going to say that the WHO are corrupt bureaucrats and the figures are nonsense.

I can say Herd Immunity. I suppose you think that vaccinations are done by a few dodgy operators in back sheds??? I couldn't find the exact figure but by looking on the WHO website world vaccination figures are more than 80%, thats atleast 4.8 billion people. Very careful records are recorded in every country and by several international organisations about immunisation rates and disease rates (even autism rates!). Thousands of pages of complex stats are published every year coming from all over the globe, the information is all there, on the internet for you to see and analyse yourself. Im not going to do the work for you, herd immunity is the cornerstone of this data and thousands of pages of analysis of third world vaccine takeup bears it out time and time again.


After all this do you really think that some person with 5 postgrad degrees in immunology and stats and a supercomputer is suddenly going to say "you know, this whole vaccine thing is actually not working out, we were wrong after all".

If you think that its all doctored by big pharma to fund their coffers while the world is poisoned by their legacy, really, then it might be time to wear a a foil hat and start preaching the end of the earth!

[RockinSAHD]

I'm sorry Lilias for hijacking your thread into a debate.

I hate it when my kids cry after getting a needle too, luckily my second isn't really bothered and doesn't cry, my first hated it. We all seem to get a bit sick after we get immunised, that's because our immune system is 'ramping up', responding to the perceived threat of the vaccination.

After our immune system is activated it will take a pattern from the vaccine so its ready to respond to the real disease. This whole process can last from a few days to more than a month and your children might have symptoms like fever, irritability and rashes for this whole time even though they are not really sick. This is not the same as having an adverse reaction, which is rare but can be dangerous. The nurse or doctor who will be giving the immunisation will be able to answer all your questions on this one.

[PollyA]

Some information can be found here that addresses the original question of the post
Immunise - Appendix 5: Commonly asked questions about vaccination - updated July 2009

[Early Kids]

I haven't read any of the replies, but I personally don't think there is a connection. Both my children are immunised.

DS1 didn't receive the birth dosage of Heb B but has had the rest, DS2 has had all (so far).

DS1 has a range of issues including ASD, hearing loss, sensory processing disorder, developmental delays, etc. DS2 is neuro-typical and other than some mild developmental delays is doing really well. DS1 displayed signs of being 'different' from a very early age, he has always had the traits that got him the Autism diagnosis it just happened that by about 18m-2yrs (around the same time as his MMR) his traits become more profound.

As far as I'm concerned, DS1's issues are related to his pregnancy, birth and prematurity complications not because he was immunised. I hope that helps.