Toddler antics in playgroup/play date settings - What should I expect from parents??
There's probably past threads of a similar vein, but I'm just going to post this to see what other mums (and dads!) might have to say.
I'm mum to a 20 month old and belong to a formal Playgroup, as well as a few other informal playgroups among local friends who get together regularly for playdates. Since I have no prior experience until now with having a toddler in group play settings, I have no idea what to expect as "normal" or "ok" behaviour from both kids and parents. By this I mean - what do you do if someone else's toddler is exhibiting "naughty" behaviour and the parent isn't stepping in to say "no no"???
I know every one of us parent differently, and that's fine and dandy, but when is the line crossed? Meaning, if someone else's kid is constantly taking a toy away from your own child (leading your own child to tears over and over), is it okay to step in and say to the child "Actually Sam was playing with that, let's find you something else". I know we can't police the social world of toddlers all the time, and we won't always notice if our kid has done something not-so-nice toward another kid. But in my mind, I will step in when I find my own kid engaged in a naughty behaviour, to teach him right/wrong.
I find that the majority of mums I socialise with (whether by choice or by the random Playgroup members) are on the same page. But there's always those few, I'm now noticing as my son gets older, who let their kids do whatever without stepping in.
Recent examples: a boy throwing rocks at myself, and later my son (mum saw and said nothing). Lots and lots of taking a toy away that someone else was playing with. Another toddler pushing in and stealing snacks from my lap over and over (I don't mind sharing but he just kept helping himself and my own son wasn't getting any). A playdate at my house whereby the other toddler trashed the place and the mum offered no help to pick up. Also on that same date, her child pushed trains through the kids' plate of fruit, getting it everywhere, and she just let him do so.
I suppose I am curious what more experienced parents think of this very common "issue". When is it okay to step in and lightly "discipline" the other person's child (by this I just mean saying something such as "Ok let's try and keep the food on the table, please")? Have you ever tried to politely bring this up with the actual parent themself? Is it best just to avoid the offenders, if possible - the rowdy kid with no boundaries and the parent who is obviously on a different wavelength?
Help! Feed me your words on this topic, I'd be very grateful
cheers
As the mother of a 2.5yo who is one of "those" children who sometimes gets a bit enthusastic with other kids (read: pushes them down the slide if they take too long ) and has strange ideas about "mine" (read: everything is HERS ) who also has a very clumsy 1yo to chase and try and minimise damage to his head (self-inflicted), I readily admit that I do not see everything aforementioned 2.5yo gets up to.
However - when I see things, I do intervene, so I think that parents who do not intervene when they are right there are not really doing the best by their child. Anyway...
I am fully ok with any other parent disciplining my DD. They have and will continue to do so as I can't be there at all times. Also, your house = your rules. It is ok to say so. As in "Bobby, at our house, we all help pack up the toys! Can you help Betty and me pack up?" and then... depending on your relationship with Bobby's mum, I'd even be tempted to say "Bobby's mum can you give me a quick hand please?" I think that's fine.
Oh and as for throwing rocks - I think any behaviour that is going to harm another person/child/animal/book/toy needs to be stopped immediately. That is a big no-no in my book.
I think there are two different scenarios - the child who is misbehaving without their parent's knowledge (as in my case) and then those where the parent is on a different wavelength and not stepping in to stop the behaviour. Please don't avoid the first scenario - again, as one of those parents, my DD needs to spend time in playgroups and things to learn what is ok. We talk about it at home, we enfore sharing and gentle behaviours with her brother, but when she is around other kids it is another level of concentration required.
But if the parent is not willing to do something about it, well, I don't think I'd want to be socialising with them either.
Thanks Ocean Princess! Great advice and words of experience! much appreciated. I guess I'm sometimes a bit of a pushover, in situations where I should be a bit more assertive - my house, my rules - that's right isn't it!
I am not a part of any playgroups but we spend a lot of time at parks. I am the mum that is playing just as much as my DD's so I am always very involved. I have no problem telling other kids if I think they need to think about what they are doing if it is affecting my DD's. DD1 is a very gentle polite girl and if someone takes something off her then she tends to just move on and if I see she is not upset about it then I just let her go though. DD1 has been pushed off a slide by 2 older kids running up it and pushing her out of the way, she actually fell over the side. Scary as all hell for me. Lucky she was okay but it that instance I actually yelled at the other kids, they were old enough to know better. There parents just sat there and watched, did not react in anyway.
I think there needs to be a bit of free play but parents also need to watch and be responsible for their kids actions and be there to pull them up when needed. Regards to at your home. I agree, your house, your rules, after all you have to stay there after everyone goes home.
I am part of a formal playgroup and have been for quite sometime. I have no issue with, I wouldn't say disciplining other children, but I will step in if there is a need to for example a) the parent isn't around / doesn't know what is going on or b) is standing there letting their child throw sand/be mean to other kids (had this yesterday at pg) etc.... I certainly don't yell/touch the other kids etc.... but for example, there was one child about 4 yo who wasn't letting other kids go down the slide - the mum was there but I don't know if she knew her son was being unfair to the other kids, so I asked him to move - he then gave me attitude (said no! and come up with some reason) and I told him to move out of the way for the other kids, so everyone can play. I would be ok with another parent saying this to my DD. The thing is, I watch very closely to where my DD is and what she is doing, so if I need to step in I am there fairly quickly. Maybe this is a bit of overkill, however we have up to 25 kids at our playgroup and it gets hectic plus there are some babies (8 mo) there and sometimes the older kids are running around crazily and it gets concerning for the younger ones.
I am part of a "formal" playgroup too with a 22 month old.
My DD is a bit precious about toys so when another kid grabs the toys she is playing with I reinforce with MY child "Its ok to share with X why don't you play with this one here" EVen though the behaviour that caused the upset was from someone elses child I think its more appropriate in that instance to reinforce the "sharing" aspect with my own child.
DD is also very very precious about HER slide (the one at playgroup) and gets very grumpy if other kids want to play on it. I discourage her grabbing and pushing away other kids and again reinforce the "sharing" aspect and say "Its X's turn you can have a go next"
Throwing of stones or toys or anything then I would step in regardless if the mother wasn't around or was and another child was at risk of being injured. I usually say "Don't throw XYZ, its not nice and someone could get hurt". If another childs parent allows rough play thats fine for when that child is in their own home, but when they take that behaviour into settings where the child could hurt someone elses then I have no issue with stepping in.
If DD was ever to be like that with someone elses child I would be fine with that parent saying something to DD .... mind you I am usually watching her as I know she gets stroppy with what she thinks is hers
On a different line we live with my SIL and her DD behind us and little Niece (B) is a really rough kid always has been. They think its a little bit funny and while they discourage too much rough play they have the attitude that "kids need to work it out for themselves" Which is not how we feel about kid rearing. Yes they need to sort some things out for themselves when they are capable of knowing what is acceptable behaviour and whats not. They are both under 2 and do not have that level of understanding. I try to distract B ifshe gets too rough and upsets DD but if I see her hitting or biting then I get right down at her level, point my "No" finger at her and say in a stern voice "You do not bite/hit" ........ I have had daggers thrown at me when I have stepped in on that behaviour but I will not tolerate that behaviour. I prefer DD not to play with B so I make sure they have limited contact and ALWAYS under supervision of myself or DH (manily because IL's smack for bad behaviour which we don't do ).
I think sometimes the problem is the parents whom don't seem to watch their children. I go along to playgroup with my children to do something with them....not for a break and a coffee and chat whilst I let my child run wild IYKWIM. I am constantly amazed at the amount of parents who don't get involved with their child and what they are doing, you don't need to shadow them but you can come up and see what they are doing and be acitvly involved.
Most of the time if the situation isn't too much of a problem and the other parent has not stepped in I take my child way "come on Charlie, let's play over there" ..... or "that's ok, we will get the puzzles out...do you want to help me?" I try this instead of telling anyone off. I don't see one child taking another child's toy as naughty - sharing is a concept they don't actually fully understand til age 3. So that's a situation I would just take my childs focus away if the other parent is not there to step in. Taking a toy back from a child that doesn't understand is going to cause more drama.
As for things like throwing rocks, or sand etc I tell them gently to please stop in the hope the parent will hear and step in. Again I take my child away if the other child does not stop or gives me attitude. I can only ask them to stop, and explain why it is not my place to disicpline anyone else child and I myself would be very annoyed if someone tried to discipline mine.
It's good to remember we all see it from a different point of view and the most we can do is take care of our own.
If the behaviour is in any way dangerous to myself or any of my children, then I immediately step in and intervene, no questions asked. If the ehaviour isn't dangerous but is merely distressing for my child, I will usually look around to see if the other parent notices first, and also allow my child a chance to deal with the situation themselves - however I am ready to step in if it escalates or if my child has done all they can and the bad behaviour is persisting (will be different for different aged children, younger ones will need you to step in sooner). I don't step in for every little thing, and think it is good for kids to learn to handle things on their own - but I do definitely keep an eye on the situation and stay ready to step in if needed.
But I generally have no problem stepping in and telling any child "no", particularly if their parents fail to care (there is a big difference between not noticing that your child is hurting another, and noticing but failing to get involved). Generally most parents around seem to be OK with this. I am certainly happy for strangers to tell my children "no" if they are behaving badly. However occaisionally you will get some parent who thinks that their child is always above reproach. Tough luck to them, I feel sorry for those children.
When my DD was about 18 months old, she was playing in one of those car rides that you put the money in (we never do, it was just stationary). An older child (would have been about 3yrs) came up and tried to move her over to get in himself. The mother was watching and couldn't have cared less - just kept catching on her phone. I went over and asked him to be careful as she is only little. When I turned to look at the mum again, he 'pushed' her out of the car onto the floor. The mother was atching him, still didn't care. I was livid. I picked up my crying DD, Told the little boy " NO, that was very mean. You DON'T push little kids." (In my stern teacher voice) The mother suddenly got interested - offended at how dare I talk to 'her' little angel like that! She doesn't believe in disciplining children! That poor little boy is going to get into so much trouble in his life, and he is going to be clueless as to why, because his mum is failing to teach him basic respect for others.
I have no qualms whatsoever in chatting to other children who are "playing" with my DS. I will quite happily provide some boundaries if things are unpleasant - for all parties. I also don't care if I get glared at by people I don't know.
I also don't mind other parents talking to my DS, as long as it is done respectfully. Everyone has different comfort zones and I want to teach my son it's OK to stand up for his comfort zone, even if no-one else worries about it. Just as I want him to respect other people's comfort zones even when they don't match his. So long as no-one gets hurt or upset, respecting each others' wishes is a great thing.
i belong to a playgroup and i have no problems telling someone elses child to stop doing whatever it is they are doing to MY child.
because their mother is too busy doing other stuff to notice her own child.
As for my kidlet he is 2yrs 3 mths, i wont say he is perfect but i think having an older brother helps IE sharing and what not. and i watch him like a hawk coz he is too cheeky for his own good
i step in when its needed our first playgroup was awesome but most of the kids were older than jamie and the parents sat all around and drank coffee and the kids were awesome together but obviously it depends on the playgroup and the mums i guess
but yeah i would step in especially if there was hurting involved and definately in my house its my rules
Toddler antics in playgroup/play date settings - What should I expect from parents??
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) and has strange ideas about "mine" (read: everything is HERS
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