BBT charting. Oral vs vaginal. Tips on the latter. Your thoughts/experiences?

[Lillypilly]

In the past I've charted orally, but results were erratic (I have a chronic illness which can affect my temps, and mostly anovulatory cycles) so I gave it up.

My FS now wants me to chart vaginally.

I feel like such a dill, but I am having great difficulty with this - it takes me multiple attempts to even get a temperature reading. I feel like there's no point charting vaginally if it takes so long, surely it can't be accurate. Who knows what my temp does in the meanwhile?!

Can anyone who has charted vaginally give me any ideas on what I may be doing wrong? It's not the thermometer, it's definitely the user!

And overall, does oral vs vaginal temping make that much difference so long as you're consistent? I understand the mouth-breathing concept possibly leading to inaccuracies, but I'm not a mouth breather. I think I should switch back to oral testing.

Would really appreciate other people's thoughts on this one. Thanks, lovely people.

[LionsandBears]

I've never tried temping vaginally, sorry. I wouldn't hear the beep and it's just not something I'd feel like doing first thing in the morning. I am a mouth breather. I just close my mouth for a while for it to "reset", then take my temp. However, I'm not too fussed about accuracy, in that I know my general pre-O and post-O temp "range". I'll even take my temp in the bathroom if I have to rather than lie there busting. Apparently other women can't do that. I guess my temp doesn't jump up too fast I also take my temp in the exact same spot each day - under my tongue on the right hand side. Don't know if that makes a difference at all.

However, if you have to temp vaginally, do you lie still? Can you hear the beep? When you say you dont get a temperature reading, what happens? If the thermometer is working, then it will register a temperature of some sort. It might time out if you don't hear the beep, but then you just press the button again to get the last temp taken and it should show.

With anovulatory cycles, temps will be erratic. It's one of the signs of it. It can also be a sign of PCOS (as PCOS & anovulation correlate)

[Elocin]

Like Tashybabe, I've never temped vaginally because it's really not something I want to do first thing in the morning.

If you're not comfortable doing it, don't do it.

Consistency is the key with temping. I also used to use the same side of mouth, same position every morning. Some months, my temps were perfect... spiked at the right time to show O, dipped with the arrival of AF. Other months, I would have no idea how to pinpoint O as they were so erratic.

Have you had any other tests done to check for PCOS?

[Lillypilly]

Thanks so much tashybabe and Elocin for your thoughts and support.

tashybabe, I do lie still, I can definitely hear the beep if it does work, otherwise nothing whatsover happens. If I check it (after a loooong time of no beeping) it will show a temp, but I suspect it's the default temp the thermometer flashes when it turns itself on (37). I have tried a multitude of different depths and techniques and it seems random as to when it does or doesn't work. I guess I just don't have the knack.

Elocin, PCOS has been excluded in the past, everything is in the process of being re-checked again now though. I was a bit perplexed at charting again since as you said, erratic charts are a hallmark of anovulatory cycles, which I have a history of. Since I've been asked to chart again I'm happy to, but I don't feel comfortable with the v method. If I could take temps consistently that'd be fine - but since I can't, it is kinda doing my head in. It's all a bit stressful first thing in the morning and is not getting my day off to a good start!

From both your comments, I am going to try orally instead and ensure to be super consistent with side of mouth etc and see how I go.

[Pholi]

Hi Lillypilly,

I've heard from lots of sources that vaginal temping is more accurate, and Dr. Tal (who is one of BBs lovely members) says that you can get up to a one degree variation in the mouth depending on which part of the tongue you put the thermometer under!! But the longer it takes you, and the more anxious you get about it, the less accurate the reading is going to be anyway!

You didn't really say why it's taking so long, or what part of the procedure might be going wrong, but I'm going to just throw a few things out there and see if any of it helps! (I'm pretty frank when I describe these things, so TMI alert for some.)

Firstly, my thermometer beeps when it's reading the temp, so you know to take it out. No problem temping orally, but when temp vaginally, I can't hear the beep!! I've worked out that it's just muffled by the doona and by, well, by me! Mine normally takes less than 10 secs orally, so I just count to ten for a vaginal temp. (It shows the default reading if it hasn't had long enough)

Sometimes it's difficult to insert into the vagina, probably because the tip is so small and hard to sense where it is. This is more likely if you have a prolapse, or previous vaginal damage or nerve damage from delivery of babies, but it can affect anyone. Sometimes I feel like it's caught on something and I'm not pushing at the right angle - DON'T jsut keep pushing, take it out and try again. One easy way to get the angle right is to use a finger on your other hand, insert it a few centimeters in, and then slide the thermometer along your finger. That way, your very sensitive finger can feel the thermometer is going at the same angle, and your not-so-sensitive bit of your vagina doesn't suddenly get stabbed!

If you wear undies or PJ bottoms to bed, having to pull these aside will make it harder to get the angle and position right, too, and maybe you don't have enough hands free to aslo 'feel around' for where you're aiming. Try pulling them right down first.

How far 'in' are you trying to put it? I don't know how far it's meant to go, officially, but look at it this way - if your cervix is about a fingers length (more or less) away from your vaginal entrance, the thermometer definitely shouldn't need to go in that far! Try putting your whole (straight) finger index finger in your mouth with the tip under your tongue - that's not comfortable, either!! I personally work on the theory that as long as long as it's surrounded by flesh and not in the open entrance of my vagina, ie, the tip isn't touching an air space, it's going to get a reading of body temp. As far as I know, my thermometer requires moisture around it to get a reading, so if when I take it out it's still on it's default, it didn't get a reading. Try holding the thermometer nearer to the tip (like a pencil grip, fingertips about 4-5cm from the tip of the thermometer, and just insert it until your fingertips are at your vaginal entrance.

Also - and I hope you're not getting this bit wrong - it only has to go into your vagina, ie, the first bit of the opening (it does not go through your cervix into your uterus, and it does not go into your ureter, ie where you wee from.)

And another alternative - try a different thermometer??

Having said all of this, I bet the FS's nurses would be able to answer your questions, if you asked them. And if it's a good clinic, they'll be happy to talk about it, on the phone, or in person, and even have a 'practise' with you, too, to watch what you're doing and work out where you're going wrong. Also, if that's not enough, they can talk with your FS, or get him to talk to you, and tell you if the trouble and anxiety is worth it to get the more accurate reading.

I hope something in that helps - GL

[Lillypilly]

Pholi, wow, you are a wealth of information. TMI is just what I needed. Thanks!

I could definitely hear the beep (if it worked), I tried all different depths (and yes, some of the attempts were uncomfortable), but the thing you said that resonated most was I think I may have had 'angle' issues. I will try using the finger on my other hand for 'guidance' and see how I go.

I just called the clinic nurse actually after your suggestion to contact them, and she said, "Just do it orally." I queried this because the FS had been VERY insistent that I do it vaginally, but she repeated I should just do it orally, so I don't think I will be getting any more advice on technique from them. Maybe they start out asking everyone to do it vaginally then get them to switch if they have issues?

Thanks again Pholi for sharing your tips. Maybe I'll give things another go. Then if I still have no joy, I can revert to oral temping.

[LionsandBears]

Just remember, if you're temping one way and then switch to the other way in a cycle, the temp range may shift. Normally change at the end/beginning of cycles.

[Pholi]

Ugh!! Medical staff sometimes have no idea how much we agonise over their advice!! I wish they were all singing from the same hymn sheet, and then at least you can be sure you're putting your effort into the important things Call again when she's not on shift!!

If you still want to keep trying, why don't you try both for a bit? First take your temp orally, so at least you've got a temp, and then try vaginally, and see if you can't get the hang of it? Just record them separatey - they're not interchangeable. (You might want 2 different thermometers for that )

You could try practising doing it at some other time of day, too - so you're not anxious about getting a correct bbt reading, just learning the technique.

Remember that 'muscle memory' makes these things easier, so if you get it right, do it again, exactly the same way, immediately, and repeat a few times. And try different positions, too - either on your back with knees bent up, both hand reaching from the front, or on your side with top knee lifted, both hands reaching from the front, or on your side with top knee lifted a bit, one hand reaching from the front and the other reaching around from behind (with this one you might try the thermometer in either hand.

Anyway, you're most welcome - I hope you come to terms with it one way or another! Let us know how you're going in a few days.

[Lillypilly]

Thanks for the reminder tashybabe, I think this cycle will be a write-off as far as charting goes and next one I'll be able to start at the beginning with one method or the other.

Pholi, I know, medical staff can be so blase. Singing from the same hymn sheet would make it so much easier to do the 'right' thing.

Since, as I mentioned, this cycle is a write-off in terms of gathering reliable data, I think trying both methods (and yes, I do have two thermometers!) is probably a good bet each way. Less pressure too.

Will keep ye posted.

[Lillypilly]

Not much of an update, but apparently I am the only patient who has had difficulty charting temps vaginally.

I find this moderately hard to believe, but anyway...

Apparently I'm going to get a lesson. Something to look forward to.

[LionsandBears]

Not much of an update, but apparently I am the only patient who has had difficulty charting temps vaginally.

I find this moderately hard to believe, but anyway...

Apparently I'm going to get a lesson. Something to look forward to.

Oh dear. Not one of those things they ever mentioned at school. Girls, part of your future education includes a private lesson on taking your temperature vaginally....
The things we do.

Good luck with it.

[Lillypilly]

Thanks, tashybabe.

I know, right, how mortifying.

Put it this way, I am SUPER motivated to get the hang of it before my next appointment!!!

I was this close to saying, but lots of ladies on bellybelly chart orally - why can't I?

[Lillypilly]

Pholi, I just wanted to thank you so much again for your very thorough post on this topic. I'd highly recommend it to anyone starting out temping vaginally. In fact I think that text from your post should become an official article here on Belly Belly for others starting out v-temping!

It's surprisingly hard to get detailed info on how to do it. Your post was so helpful. I'd already tried to look it up online, and called the FS' office, but wasn't able to get clear guidance. Your post was great - thank you.

Anyway, with a bit of practice, I am now successfully v-temping! (So I don't have to have a lesson with the FS after all... PHEW. )

Thanks again to everyone who kindly offered their support in this thread.

[Pholi]

Hi Lillypilly,

I'm so glad you've managed to get the hang of 'v-temping' (great name!). You went to a lot of effort to get it right, and I really hope it pays off for you with a bfp soon!

Thank you also for your kind words suggesting my advice be published as an article. I'm flattered! I think it'd need some polishing, but I'm sure you're not the only one who's struggled with v-temping, and it's a topic that many people would find awkward to bring up, and to have an article on it is a great idea.

[Lillypilly]

I hope it pays off with a bfp soon too! Thanks for your good wishes.

The FS also told me just to use a standard digital thermometer, but I've been wondering if I should've gotten the proper ovulation one that temps to two decimal places. Conflicting opinions are confusing. I guess the main thing is I'm successfully and consistently temping.

I really feel an article on v-temping would be an awesome resource to add to the other great articles here. It is an awkward topic to bring up and I felt like such a goose for needing help with it, surely others must also. I'll get in touch with the Belly Belly powers that be and see what they reckon.

Thanks again for your help!