Employer forcing unpaid hours

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 01:11 PM

Hi all,

Does anyone know what the go is with employers forcing staff to attend a "sales conference"?
It's UNPAID, and they are not only requiring us to attend all day SATURDAY, but SUNDAY also!

They've already been told to go to hell with one thing - I will not go out and buy blue jeans simply because they WANT me to wear blue jeans on the Sunday "Team Building" event!

We've been told that it is compulsory that all must attend both days to be perfectly honest, it's really got me (along with several other team members)

big time!

Edited to Add: I have been wanting to leave my current employer for over 12 months now. Only every time I get the courage up to start looking for another job we get close to be able to start IVF so I've been hanging in there as I'm eligible for maternity leave here now. My plan at this point is to wait and see what our IVF appointment in February has in store for us - if IVF is a go ahead, I will be hanging around and taking maternity leave and never coming back, if IVF is a no-go, I will be getting out of here at the first available opportunity. The urge to punch some of the morons here is just getting too high and my tolerance levels are dropping faster and faster.

**AnyDream** · January 14th, 2013, 01:22 PM

Um, sounds highly illegal, if you ask me. But it may be that some things roll in some industries that don't in others. It may depend on your rate of pay, etc. in some positions people are paid a higher wage and they are expected to network outside of work hours accordingly. But it does sound tres dodgy to me. I would be calling the union, and if you're not in one, now might be a good time to join.

**Bumperstump Cummerbund** · January 14th, 2013, 01:22 PM

I'd ring Wageline darl, it doesn't sound right to me, but it's best to go straight to the source in these matters

**AnyDream** · January 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM

Might also depend on what's in your EBA or contract of employment too. Worth checking those.

**nothing2lose** · January 14th, 2013, 01:26 PM

Do you get TOIL?

**Astrid** · January 14th, 2013, 01:26 PM

Are you on a salary or a wage? If you are on a salary, often your contract will have some clause about "reasonable overtime" and maybe even outside of hours training.

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 01:28 PM

Do you get TOIL?

What's TOIL??

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 01:29 PM

Are you on a salary or a wage? If you are on a salary, often your contract will have some clause about "reasonable overtime" and maybe even outside of hours training.

I think it's one of those contracts that's based on award. I know I don't get any overtime so they're already getting an extra hour and a half FREE work out of me each and every day cause they refuse to change my hours of work to suit my husband's hours (he was hired when I tried quitting previously in an effort to force me to stay cause they didn't want to lose me).

**nothing2lose** · January 14th, 2013, 01:33 PM

Time Off In Lieu

**Astrid** · January 14th, 2013, 01:33 PM

I think it's one of those contracts that's based on award. I know I don't get any overtime so they're already getting an extra hour and a half FREE work out of me each and every day cause they refuse to change my hours of work to suit my husband's hours (he was hired when I tried quitting previously in an effort to force me to stay cause they didn't want to lose me).

Ok, that does not make sense. If you based on an award, then normally there are quite strict provisions for over-time. Even if you don't follow an award exactly any agreement in place must not make you worse off than the award. What type of role are you? Some types of roles are heavily covered by awards, whilst others tend to be more independent contracts.

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 01:38 PM

Nope - nadda, zilch. just a "be there or get an official warning"

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 01:40 PM

I'm 2IC of a sales team, but my pay structure and salary is the same today as it was 5 years ago when I started with the company as a "admin assistant"

Only difference now is I've had a couple of pay rises, and now my commission isn't based on my own performance, as a manager it's based on the TEAMS performance (another BIG TIME gripe - I have no control over the sales team and how well they perform to budget, but yet my commission is now only provided when THEY meet budget - which they haven't done for over 5 months now!!)

**Katters** · January 14th, 2013, 01:50 PM

You can call industrial relations in your state- it's illegal.

But as you mentioned- what leaves you better off financially? Honestly if it was me, id just not turn up and cop a written warning.

When they give it to you, make sure it's in writing.

You have the right to keep a record of conversation as well during the discussion, and have the other party (your manager) sign off on it as being an accurate representation of the discussion.

They're also required to give you 24 hours notice before having a performance discussion and you have the right to bring along any support person you like (from in or out of work).
If they breach any of that, just keep it documented and pull them up on it. They stop trying it on pretty fast if you sound like you know the HR side of their attempted 'performance management.'

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 01:57 PM

That's what I keep thinking - it HAS to be illegal. Forcing us to attend this means 12 working days straight without any days off.

They even expect us to do extended hours over the weekend - normal working hours are 9:00AM - 5:30PM (My hours are 8:00AM- 5:30PM thanks to their inflexibility).....hours over the weekend are: 8:15AM - 10PM (Breakfast, lunch and dinner are being included in the days events).

So want outta here but it just makes no sense leaving now with IVF so close around the corner. Feeling so trapped with no way out.

**Joeve** · January 14th, 2013, 02:08 PM

Are you covered by an award or are you on an individual contract with a salary?

**Mel_B1981** · January 14th, 2013, 02:13 PM

Are you covered by an award or are you on an individual contract with a salary?

My salary is award based, but we are on contracts.

**Rowellen** · January 14th, 2013, 02:17 PM

It sounds like they are completely unethical. I'd be tempted to forego maternity leave for a different job. If what you say is right, you might even be better off. Surely you could get a better pay rate elsewhere? I think you probably could based on your comment that you are 2ic but being paid admin assistant rates.

I'd also be tempted to take a warning instead especially if it was the first one.

**Joeve** · January 14th, 2013, 02:20 PM

Is there anywhere in your contract that states hours and then has something like or reasonable hours as required?
It could be worded differently.
At the end of the day depending on what is in your contract dictates what they can and can't request. The word reasonable is your out because it may not be reasonable to expect you to work on weekends at a conference if you have other commitments.
Itms?
I would just respond in writing that due to prior arrangements your are unable to attend. They can not force you

however, depending on your contract can request you