4yo pushing boundaries

[Miss.September]

DD1 has decided that nothing I say matters. Up until recently, she has been a grumpy, moody 4 year old. About three weeks ago, she changed to the gorgeous girl we know well - polite, kind, happy. Except now she doesn't listen to anything I ask.

Yesterday, she was quiet in her room. She often goes in there to get away from her little sister. She usually plays dress ups, or makes cups if tea with her dolls. Y'know. Typical 4yo girly girl. I went in to check and she had paint out and had managed to open about four different containers of glitter. It was everywhere. Thankfully, she had not managed to get the lids off the paint.

She has a craft table set up all the time downstairs in the dining room. It's on tiles. She knows that she can do any craft activity she likes, whenever she wants as long as she does it downstairs. We have explained that she can't do it in her room because there is carpet (plus she has a tendency to draw on her toys in her room). So yesterday she got in trouble and she told us that she knew it was wrong, she won't do it again and will try harder tomorrow. Her response is so polite, calm and genuine.

Today, I've just found her again in her room, pulling out more crafty stuff and again, all over the floor, all over her.

While I know the obvious answer is to remove all offending material from anywhere she can get to it, in this house , it just isn't possible. We live in mum's house which is full to the brim of mum's stuff and other than the wardrobe in DD1's room and the wardrobe in our room, I have nowhere else to keep things away from little fingers. And she gets into the wardrobes.

Yesterday, over the course of the entire day, she was asked to do four things. Make her bed. Tidy her room. Pick up her shoes from the lounge room and put them in her room. Remove the toys from the lounge room and put them in her room. She did nothing. And again, her response is that she knows she didn't do it, no she doesn't find it hard and she'll try again tomorrow.

The other thing she continually does is go outside without me knowing. She unlocks the door. We live on a rural property with cattle fencing, there is a pond and a dam and there are snakes. And it doesn't matter how I try to explain to her why she can't go outside without me knowing, she just does it anyway. We've tried everything from talking to her about why she needs to tell us, to yelling at her, to being blunt about what happens when a child gets bitten by a snake/drowns. Nothing gets through. And she doesn't do anything while she's out there, just stands out on the porch, so to me it's more about contesting what we've asked and less about wanting to go outside (they get lots of outside time).

I know she has no problem understanding me. She follows instructions to the T when she wants to. She does as she's told/asked at kinder and at her music lessons.

I don't know what to do and how to get through to her. At the moment, she's sitting on the couch and I've told her that she isn't allowed to do anything until dad gets home (he's on his way). She is to think about what it means to listen to me and do what I've asked her to do. I've never gone this approach before, so we'll see what happens.

Anyone got any advice, tips, anything for me? Someone tell me she'll grow out of this tomorrow

I should add that it's just me she's like this with. And I'm her main carer.

[Emma09]

No advice.... Just a
My little miss is also up to the same mischief!

[AliBaby]

My 4 year old is a bit like this sometimes with not listening. Often the problem is she is tired and needs more sleep.

We really need to get her to bed earlier and have bedtime more consistent. I notice when we do, her behaviour is so much better.

How many hours does your DD sleep each night?

[OceanPrincess]

I posted a thread almost identical to this a few months back! Even with the going outside thing!!!

I'm so sick of the apologies. Yes, it is great that she is sorry but she keeps doing it. I've started telling her that big girls learn from their mistakes - do the wrong thing, apologise, move on. But don't do it again.

We are having limited success...

[Miss.September]

How many hours does your DD sleep each night?

She goes to bed between 7-7.30, is asleep by 8 and doesn't stir usually until around 7 the following morning. She's a sensational sleeper, once she's asleep, not even her screaming sister wakes her.

OP, I remember your thread - I didn't want to revise it because the general consensus was the last few months prior to starting school was like this.. And DD1 isn't starting school next year so I'm hoping like crazy we don't have this for the whole of next year .

[wysiwyg]

DD is quite like this at the moment. I also hope is not the before school thing because she can't go next year either. I am torn between whether she needs more downtime or more structured activities because she loves anything with a teacher, on weekdays childcare is 3 days and the other two days have no scheduled activities but get out and about etc. I worry a bit she is getting bored and wonder if more brain activities would help her stop ignoring us as sometimes.

Also I do think is a bit about impulse control, I remember as a child knowing I shouldn't do something but not quite being able to restrain myself and then feeling very sorry, so I wonder if some of it is about maturity. I think the sensibleness and reasonableness of her at other times makes it worse as can forget her age.

With the going outside thing, if she only stands on the porch cash she be trusted just to do that and not go any further, sometimes I think there is logic what they ignore, e.g. the dangers you mention are off the porch so in her logic the porch is fine ???

[Miss.September]

With the going outside thing, if she only stands on the porch cash she be trusted just to do that and not go any further, sometimes I think there is logic what they ignore, e.g. the dangers you mention are off the porch so in her logic the porch is fine ???

No. Our snake issue in the warm weather also extends to the porch. I wish she could just go outside whenever she pleases, but it just isn't safe here.

She has scheduled activities on all but two days a week. Some are only for 1/2 hr, others are 3 hours. I try and keep her busy at home with a mix of helping me with household tasks, jobs that she can do (placemats on the table, making bed, etc), play time both with me and DD2 and on her own and then just downtime of watching a movie or something.

I guess I'm just hoping something will click. I want her to have her time away from me at home. If she wants to be on her own, chilling out in her room, I don't want her to feel like I'm breathing down her neck but while she keeps doing things like this, I need to constantly have eyes on her.

[black_rose]

We have been through it too, it gets better but dd still has moments where she goes backwards if she isn't kept busy or stimulated but it's also when she was tired. For about 6 months we couldn't let her out of our sight as she would destroy the house. Now she can be left to go outside or up to her room. She has had her brother home lately as his daycare was flooded in the beginning she loved having him around but it's meant she has had no one on one time with me so the last few days she has refused to listen, wrecked her play dough and just screamed to get my attention.

[dinky]

I am having the same sort of issues with my DD who is 8, she is constantly pushing the boundaries ALL the time. Its like a never ending battle and it drives me crazy, because she is really clever, knows that she is doing the wrong thing and apologises, says that she wont do it again and yet 10 mins later she is back at it! I think its a girl thing that happens in the midst of a growth spurt, I have noticed that it happens more often at this time, and pray that it will be over soon, but this time DD seems to love the attention that she gets by creating a major drama wherever she goes!

I know that I used to use a lot of those handwriting books that you can get from the cheap shops, that teach the kids how to write and spell, maths and stuff. The ones with pictures in as well, so that she could colour in, it would keep her amused for hours at a time. Maybe she just needs some extra stimulation? I know that the psychologist used to tell me that any attention is better than none, so bad attention gets more results than good attention, IYKWIM?

[AnyDream]

Thing 1 - grab some stackable plastic tubs/drawers from Big W & rehouse the craft things next to/under the craft table in the dining room.

Thing 2 - I don't know how you ladies who can't let your kids roam in the backyard do it! Seriously, it's a major sanity-saver for them to get outside. Could you increase the number of outings to parks/open play areas where DD could ramble, ride her bike/scooter/play in the dirt/sand? That's a really nice balance between scheduled activities & unstructured free play. If she can run off her energy an extra few times a week, you get the variety of going somewhere different, and she might be more compliant at home.

Thing 3 - when our DD was 4 she became more defiant too - it is normal for them to be trying to exercise more autonomy at this age. Open up the choices you give her in other areas (not wide open, give her an extra option or two) - so that she develops more of a sense of control. For eg, where would you like to go today? Or what should we have for tea tonight? But also introduce some cues about those times when things aren't open to negotiation, so she has clear guidelines about when she can negotiate vs when what you say goes, no arguments.

Hope this helps

[~Kim~]

I know all of you have girls but my DS and all his little mates are doing this too. It's less about the time before school but the last 6 months until the next birthday/developmental leap. They've formed the pathways now they're seeing what they can do with them.
I have to say the same thing over and over and over and over....killing me here.
While I do agree with the stimulation I also think kids need lots of down time and unstructured play. I know DS is much better when he has this.

[~Hestia~]

Yep my Moo was 4 in August and as a result he has lost his hearing He will not do anything the first dozen times I ask him and it really frustrates me. He gets lost when I ask him to do something, such as pack up his toys, I'll find him doing something else instead. He won't undress himself because he 'can't'. He 'can't' do lots of things at the moment! I think he just wants me to do for him like I do for his little brother. He has just started copying what I say to Buster, like just now I told him to get down so Moo gets in his face and repeats it, can see this getting old very quickly!

[Miss.September]

I've been reading all the replies - thank you for the advice and experiences . Bit time poor at the moment so will reply properly later, but just wanted to say thanks

[Miss.September]

Thing 2 - I don't know how you ladies who can't let your kids roam in the backyard do it! Seriously, it's a major sanity-saver for them to get outside. Could you increase the number of outings to parks/open play areas where DD could ramble, ride her bike/scooter/play in the dirt/sand? That's a really nice balance between scheduled activities & unstructured free play. If she can run off her energy an extra few times a week, you get the variety of going somewhere different, and she might be more compliant at home.
Hope this helps

How much time? At home we have a cubby, swings, trampoline, sandpit and plastic climb slide thing. At the moment the sandpit has no sand - she wasn't showing any interest in it and it was a lovely haven for the rabbits We go outside every day, weather permitting. Minimum time is an hour but now the weather is better, it's usually most of the afternoon (around her other activities). Some nights it's after dinner too, just an end of the day play and run around with our dogs. On top of that, there is a playground beside one of her activities and she gets to play there before her class starts. Probably half hour to an hour. Then two days at kinder with outdoor play there too. She has both a bike and a scooter which she doesn't have any interest in. She either runs around pretending she's the Little Mermaid or she picks and scatters flowers.

I give her choices about things and ask her what she wants to do. Sometimes she answers. When she doesn't answer and I make the decision, it's always wrong. When I raise the question again, she still can't answer. She can choose her clothes, lunch, daily activities, all of it. But she usually doesn't. I even ask her if she would like me to get her anything from the supermarket lol.

Today, we sat down together and built a miniature dolls house that she can store her hair clips in. I glued it all together and she painted it. It's taken all morning and she enjoyed every minute of it. We took it to her room and put her hair clips in it. Lovely morning. Within five minutes of finishing, she was carrying on again. Pushed around her sister, made her cry, told me I was lazy and just grumbled.

I know, I know. Normal.

I'm just so tired!

[MummyNaomi]

Gah, they seem soooo ungrateful sometimes don't they? We get that here. We organise activities, or just spend time playing randomly with DS based on what he wan't to do for the morning, try to get stuck into a few chores, get dinner ready and all of a sudden he's in a sulk because he has nothing to do and seemingly expects to be entertained 24/7 - not possible!! Drives me batty when we have a house FULL of toys, a great back yard and PLENTY to do.....

One thing that seemingly does work is while I give DS choices of things to do etc, I try to limit the choices to 2 or 3 things max, it seems the more choices I give him the more indecisive he gets.

I've gotten back into the rotation and rediscovery of toys though - even at almost 5 this is still a winner........

[AnyDream]

Ok, sounds like she's getting plenty of outdoors, then! I also remember my DD mucking around with choice making, too. I think she did it sometimes just to be contrary - and unfortunately because mummy is the one she felt most secure with, I was the person who copped it the most LOL. All you can do is reward with positive consequences, eye contact, and pointing out how nice it is and how calm and happy she feels when she does the desired behaviour. Good luck with it, as far as I can tell it's a passing phase.