So glad your post popped up, i was surfing and forgot it was on!
Yep we are watching here (mum and Dad are watching too, but more out of interest)... DSS is 11 and has the potential to go one way or the other.
LAst weeks episode was brilliant... I would have loved to have a teacher like Phil
I think the kids are really being give a massive hand with this teaching style, pity more teachers dont recognise that some kids cant learn in the traditional fashion.
I just find it really interesting that kids who pretend they don't care what anyone thinks of them were upset when they were chucked out. I actually felt really sorry for them, especially Dean at the start, but I agreed that they have to learn that their actions have consequences. I hope they show what their home life is like so we can understand more about why they've had so many problems at school.
It was great when they dealt with the grafitti girl as a group and were telling her that what she'd done was totally wrong.
I'm glad you made this thread too, a great talking point. I find the methods in the show appalling. Those poor kids. They've got an English teacher who thinks entertaining them will suck them in (doesn't show a great respect for their intelligence by doing this) and then turning away Dale who was doing everything to push others away, obvious rejection issues and that's exactly what they do to him. I can't stand it but I cant stop watching it
I would tend to disagree with you Ladybird, Yes the teaching methods of the English teacher are questionable, but when you have children that have not even gone to an english class for a whole year, you need to do something to come down on to their level and help them learn in a way that will keep their attention.
Did you watch the show last week?
Phil - the English teacher - showed each child where their intellegence lay, most of them are not book smart (mainly because they dont bother to go or pay attention in traditional schooling) but each identified their own strengths so that they could learn in a way that suited them... most of the kids needed to move frequently, so sitting in a class room of hours at a time would make them fidget and become restless, they would then stuff around and then disrupt the class.
In the introduction classes he taught them about punctuation, in a far from traditional method, they got up made noises and moved around and were able to enjoy a class, I actually still giggle when using the apostrophe and want to make the noises ... the aim of the 2 week teaching is so that they learn they are actually intelligent enough to sit through a traditional class (most when describing themselves used the words dumb and thick)
Dale unfortunately was turned away, he actually was one of the most intelligent there and had never been sent out of a class, probably as he was able to complete enough work in each class, however what message is it sending to the other kids, that you can flaunt the rules and be given a second chance? for most this is the last chance that they are ever going to get.
Fiona - in last weeks episode, we met the kids and saw what they were like in their school environment (pretty appalling really) the went on the introduction camp, where they met the teachers and the other kids and were given the ground rules, then sent back home before starting the actual camp.
Also several of the teachers in the schools that these kids came from, underwent training so that they can incorporate some of the teaching methods into their classes.
I can hear the arguments now, 20 years ago these kids would be disciplined more effectively and there would not have been the issue etc etc etc.
(just want to say before i go one, that i am not passing judgement directly at anyone, nor am i saying that these things are what causes all the problems in children)
But the fact of the matter is that kids now a days do lack disapline, not necessarily due to poor parenting, but becasue of the increased incident of parents returning to work, due to finacial stressors, and relying of careers and teachers to teach some of these priciples...
Also due to incredibly processed foods, additives etc etc ADHD and food allergies/intolerances, reactions etc are on the rise
The other thing is that parents are increasingly trying to be their childs friend and do not want to be the bad parent that enforces all the rules, and in doing this kids are loosing their guides and mentors into the adult world...
of course there are many other reasons that influence and have an impact on these children's behaviours
So we have kids that misbehave more so than ever before, i think that this is a great way of addressing the issue, traditional schooling is not working for these kids, so one of two things can occur, We give a different method a try, or we give up on them and kick them out so that the kids that appear to want to be at school can learn.
There is nothing to loose really and everything to gain, and Ladybird, i am sorry to disagree but i think that it is insulting their intelligence by not giving them a chance a learning in a new way and giving them the opportunity to learning in a safe an non threatening way, where they do not need to fear giving the wrong answer, where the smarter kids wont look down their noses at the 'dummies in the back' for giving it a go.
Sorry SammiJane I had to reply, please take it as good discussion only.
The test they did was a multiple intelligence test and its routine for the first few weeks of school but perhaps unfortunately gets lost in high school assuming its been done earlier on.
This is a great way to build confidence but all the intelligences need to be explored, a child who thinks they are no good at maths is hardly likely to use a pie graph to represent something .... until they learn what one is. The punctuation exercise was good but it was in isolation. There was no explanation of what their functions were. Its one thing to identify something but you really need to be able to use it, and its the correct use of them that matters, why not tell them this.
I just feel that with these kids they need someone to say (literally) that they are not going anywhere and they are here to help. The way many of them spoke to the kids instantly put them on the defensive as it would anyone, child or adult. Not once did they instruct them on their behaviours or even remind them, they just assumed they knew and I think this is where mistakes are made. A lot of children don't realise its rude to sit slumped back in the chair.
There were so many incidences where these little things could have been mentioned. Not once did I hear gratitude from teachers thanking them for listening, taking part, being tidy etc ...what you give out comes back
the isolating of Dale in front of his peers was dreadful, how humiliating for him not only in front of people he was trying to impress but on tv. The manner in which he spoke to him and all of them was harsh, if another adult spoke to me like that i'd want to leave, kids are no different.
Ladybird, of course its taken as discussion, thats what we are here for
you bring some good points, but i would like to reply
the punctuation exercise, i understand your point, however, sometimes partial things are taught so that later they can be revisited and brought back into context, i took it as a warm up exercise that introduced the punctation to the kids, i assumed it will be worked into their english at a later date...
Yes i agree with the gratitude point that you make, common courtesy is what the teachers expect, so they must treat the children with the same.
Dale earlier on in the program said to the camaras that no one had ever excluded him from a class and that there was no way it was going to happen here, he could get away with anything... maybe in his circumstance, being the most intelligent child there, he needed a wake up call, to show him that he was just the same as the other kids... iykwim
the other thing i would like to say is that obviously we are only going to see the bits that the producers want us to see, so the funniest or most controversial as its what makes good television, perhaps to praise and the proper learning are in the bits that dont make the TV cut as they would not make for good discussion
Ladybird, I get the feeling that you possibly have some sort of background in this area?
Please dont think that i am just arguing with you, i love a good health discussion and i am looking forward to the next episodes and your POV on these
I didn't realise it started last week - I thought it started this week. Did anyone else notice that one of the Mums was just like a real life Vicki Pollard? ROFL. Anyway, I think that their approach to Dale was the right one to make. This kid has for too long known that no one will ever stand up to him and let him know that there is a limit for his behaviour - his regular teachers probably don't have the time or the patience to be firm and that no means no, so they let it slide and he thinks he rules the roost. Same thing at home probably - he comes across to me as being a typical spoilt brat. Everyone keeps giving him a second chance and TBH, not everyone deserves a second chance because life just isn't like that - every action has a consequence and if you stuff it up, then that's it a lot of the time. Of course it would have been humiliating for him, but only because he was so ****-sure that they would let him stay kwim? If he is to grow up and become a contributing member of society instead of a taker, then that's a lesson he is going to have to learn.
As for the English teacher, I think you should cut him some slack Ladybird. We only see 25mins of footage taken from probably a whole week and he's probably tried everything he knows trying to engage these kids in learning. Maybe he is really dumbing things down for them, which may seem like an insult to their intelligence from our POV, but they can't sit for 5 minutes and pay attention before they are stuffing around and talking. So in that respect I think they need to be taught like you would teach a much younger child. You can't expect them to immediately sit up and start reciting prose and enjoying it when they probably don't even know what it is.
Hi Sammiejane & Trillian,
I agree with most of the points you have posted,we have a 15 year old son,who is very inteligent is in many gifted & talented classes,has a good pass rate on his exams,but stuffed himself up by getting a bad school report, at the end of 2008,& being disruptive in class,rude,talking, generally being a smart arse to his teachers,because he thought it was ever so funny to join in with his so called mates! My DH & myself had a very strict up bringing & we are firm,but try to be fair with all our children,but we have to change things this year before our 15 year old gets himslef into a load of trouble.The thing that PEEDED us off the most,was that he came home with a shocking school report,but nobody at the school bothered to inform us about our son`s actions! So next week when he goes back to school,I?m making an appointment to see the school`s Principle, to get all the issues sorted,I don`t want to be reading another bad school report,ever. I think if punishment was brought back into our school`s & parents didn`t have to worry about other people commenting on a good bloody smack,when our kids are missbehaving,things would be a whole lot better for all of us. I look foward to watching this show.
I only caught the last episode of the Unteachables (the sending Dale home, graffiti, drinking episode) and am almost glad to know that it isn't just me, and my colleagues who are often at a loss of what to do with kids like those in the show.
I am a Primary School teacher with 8 years experience and have also done one year as Deputy Principal (but I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means). I just had a few comments in repsonse to the discussion so far...
Dale - he absolutely had to be sent home. Depsite his background and excuses he was warned several times, he knew why he was there, he was disrupting other kids and he was pushing boundaries. The Psychologist on the show said that his exclusion was probably the first time he had ever had a consequence followed through! That's a big part of the problem. There is no point setting clear boundaries if you move them all the time- then the kids learn nothing, other than they can always manipulate situations to their advantage.
The English teacher - I hear the first episode showed more of his skills. But to me he was like all teachers I know, desperately trying to (and usually doing so in an innovative and effective manner) modify and adapt the curriculum, teaching methods and content to suit the abilities, needs, interests and intelligences of the kids. Hard enough with a group of 15 'at-risk' kids with similar backgrounds (like the show) - spare a thought for the thousands of teachers doing the same thing every day for a class of 30+ of widely different backgrounds etc.
Sounds like a very interesting show, will have to watch it next time. I am a primary teacher and have taught in "difficult" areas and it used to break my heart that some of my kids were going to get lost in the system once they reached High school.
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The Unteachables
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