Alcohol

I have been thinking about this from various perspectives. Saying that a child can have alcohol pre-Seniors (as I have said) sounds really wrong, even to me.

But, in another 11 years, if DH and I are having a glass of wine with a meal and DS would like some, giving him a taste or a watered down glass of his own isn't going to do harm. DH thinks the odd taste is OK earlier, so I am aware that if DS goes on fishing/racing days with DH he may have the odd taste of bitter. As this is an acquired taste he probably won't ask for more.

Age 15-16 in a restaurant, DS may well be allowed one small glass of wine or a half-pint, but on water the rest of the time. But it would be small amounts on the odd occasion.

It certainly wouldn't be with every meal, just as we don't drink with every meal, but once or twice a month having a small drink at the age of 16 is a lot less harmful than turning 18 and going out and getting smashed just because you can. I am hoping DS will be driving age 18 so will have less incentive to drink anyway.

Anyway, just thinking about this. Everyone is different and IMO, that makes this place so fantastic - we are made to think about decisions we would have just made blindly before. I am sticking to my original decision in this case, but it has made me think and research it more. My main reason is that the senior school DS will attend may well have children from homes with large amounts of alcohol going on (sadly, the catchment area includes the slightly less than desirable neighbourhood of the nearby town as well as our very genteel English village) and I don't want someone giving him a drink at school to be his first introduction to alchol (and yes, alcohol in schools does happen, or at least it did when I was growing up). Illegal drugs he will have it hammered into him that everyone says NO to that, but IMO saying "mummy says yes and DS says no" isn't going to promote DS to say no all the time. Just my opinion on this matter though.

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Sorry Bec but I've been a parent for 11 years and I can tell you that my new parent ideals have been replaced with realistic ideals about parenting. Which involves me being the parent.

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Apology accepted. I understand what you're trying to say here Dee, but if someone had said that to you 9 and a half years ago would you have bowed to their obvious greater wisdom or would you have felt, "hang on a sec, I'M a parent too! And now i can't have an opinion until Smee is 11 and by then her kid will be 22 so i'll still have no idea and no right to my methods or opinions??"? Because to be honest i am feeling the latter. By saying that you have effectively stripped my opinion of any worth. I will NEVER catch up with that. Only by having DD when i was 14 could i now match your experience.

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I think we should agree to disagree and move on.

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Do you know, i think i'll do JUST that.

Bx

Bec please point out the bit where I stripped you of your opinion, a little nasty and over the top don't you think?
In that sentence where I was addressing my own evolution as a parent in response to your pointed questions, I wrote in response to your direct almost attacking question. So what I am now hearing is; it is ok for you to single me out and directly question me but it is not ok that I addressed those direct questions back to you. Hardly fair is it? There is no need to make it personal like that. As I said I agree with you on many other issues and we don't have to agree on everything. You have been vocal in stating your opinion on this issue as have I. I disagree with giving children any alcohol of any quantity, you don't see a problem with it so as I said lets just agree to disagree.


Kate and Melanie, I couldn't agree more, but you know how it is...gotta share the love.

I'm sorry Dee, it is very possible that i completely misinterpreted what you said.

When you said

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Sorry Bec but I've been a parent for 11 years and I can tell you that my new parent ideals have been replaced with realistic ideals about parenting. Which involves me being the parent.

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i thought that you meant that because i only have 16 months parenting experience under my belt my opinion and intention re: respect etc. was just "new parent ideals" and not "realistic ideals about parenting" and thus not to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry you found my question attacking, i was only asking you your own question back about the drugs because i thought perhaps you would have, as you have done in the past on several other topics, a new gem of an idea about it. I wasn't attacking you i was curious to see how you explained to your kids why it's ok for you to have alcohol and not for them, that's all. I wasn't raised in that sort of household (my parents were more do as i do) so i have no experience of it. Forgive me, it really was naivety and not an attack.

I also didn't mean to be singling you out as such, i was just responding personally to the personal statement you made to me (quoted above already). I guess it comes down to interpretation where an exchange of views aimed at a specific person (like if i say "Dee...." or you say "Bec....") becomes being "singled out".

I do not agree with your viewpoint necessarily but i certainly don't dismiss it. It is certainly valid for you and we all have to tread our own paths in life. I have not and am not trying to convince you that my way is better than yours, it i only better for ME. I have to admit i found your next to last post quite dismissive of me and my viewpoint, and the viewpoints of others (specifically Ryn who you said didn't warrant a response to what i felt was a valid point) which is probably why i over-reacted. I'm sorry. I guess we all have bad days, myself included.

And as such i am more than willing to agree to disagree and move on.

Back to topic, i realised earlier when Smee was freaking out an i was hunting for, and failing to find, the Rescue Remedy, that ALL Bach Flower Remedies are suspended in alcohol. I rarely use it (can't FIND it! lol) but i know a lot of kids who have it fairly regularly for tantrums etc. Was just thinking about it in terms of what Ryn said about alcohol having medicinal properties... Does that count as alcohol or medicine? It's probably about the same content as watered down wine or whatever, and it IS medicine. Any thoughts anyone?

Bec

The alcohol is purely a preservative/carrier. That stuff is brilliant so I'd say the benefits far outweigh any teeny risk...

Apparently the carrier is 50:50 water and brandy.

Bx

Wow I didn't realise the Beck... and I use rescue remedy with Matilda on really bad days. Hmmmm....

I am coming in late, once again, on this debate. But from personal experience I have to say the more importance we put on alchohol, the more our children will desire it. In my house as young teens I was allowed some brandy at night when I had AF visit. I had awful periods and mum would let me have something to help me sleep at night. We were allowed a glass of wine with big family dinners, so not all the time but occasionally. We were given baileys in coffee when we were 17-18 (drinking age 21 in US). And we didn't binge drink, my brother and I always were designated drivers. Our friends however, who had to hide alcohol had serious issues with it. We lost friends due to drunk driving and we watched friends go down a long road of alcoholism. Our friends families refused to discuss alcohol with them and ignored all the signs.

I think the most healthy way of approaching it is making it realistic. Lead as a parent by example. Matilda knows what wine is, she calls it special mummy & daddy juice. We have it occasionally and she knows that it is something she can not have until she is much older. We plan to lead by example, if she is curious as a teenager we want her to come to us, not her friends. I won't go out & buy her alcohol for a party, but I will let her have a small glass occasionally at dinner.

Well said Christy.

Very interesting about Bach's Rescue Remedy... and what about cough mixture, most has alcohol...and I think Listerine has too? So I don't think consuming such tiny quantities will do any harm to my children's health. We don't drink wine at every meal either BTW. Maybe twice a week.

I also forgot to add that I also make the odd Martini for myself and DH. I do not allow my children to taste that. Spirits is a totally different thing for me. This is where I definately would say to my children: "No, this is only for mummy and daddy". But wine is different... I don't know why. I'm sorry if my parenting outrages people but at least I'm being upfront about it *shrug*.

The posters who have very strong views on this also have to be aware that by posting in a vehemently strong fashion could just make readers who allow a sip of wine with children at meal times just not admit it.

None of us have crystal balls. No one here can claim that their strategy of teaching responsible drinking will work. We all have different experiences the effects of alcohol on people and can only be expected to do what feels right. I personally prefer to diminish the desire by adopting the European approach. To me the Anglo approach has not has as much success. Yes I know this is generalising. Once again please be aware that i do not give my children watered down drinks (wine) of their own. They have about 2/3 sips a week (from my glass) and given that a dose of cough mixture would contain more actual alcohol then i see no reason to be concerned for my children's health. If you are concerned about the message I am giving my children then yes, we have to agree to disagree.

Still I understand the outrage to a certain degree: I feel the same way when i see parents giving soft drinks to their kids.... and letting them drink Coke like it's water :( People might say my children don't need wine... I say their kids don't need soft drink. I could count on one hand the ammount of times my 4yo has had a soft drink. We only have it in the house for special occasions and even then i try to avoid giving it to my 4yo. I would say that the impact of soft drink consumption on the health of Australian children is much greater than the health impact of children who are allowed 2/3 sips of wine each week.

I have to agree with you Christy. I was brought up in a household were alcohol was not taboo, and I never binge drank as a teen nor did I get crazy. I have never blacked out or lost my memory whilst drinking and whilst I do like to make ****tails and have an awesome bar collection, most of its been there for nearly 6 yrs plus and we don't drink all that often.

I grew up with 5 oclock bourbon/brandy/scotch. With my grandparents and they still do it to this day. Strangely none of the kids or grandkids have ever had a problem with alcohol. It was not taboo, it was not seen as a "drug" or an escapism it just was a part of life. I used to hate it the few times I saw my mum "under the influence" as a kid and gave her HEAPS for it. My father was never a big drinker, but I think my mother's embarressing moments (I think I can remember 2 all up) was probably a big hinderance for me too.

And Bath I totally agree with you when it comes to coke.

But there are always going to be 2 sides for this argument, and I am comfortable with my choices.

*hugs*
Cailin

I am sorry, but I actually dont think that this is a cultural debate, Just from reading the posts I have heard a lot of aussie mums who dont have an issue with giving the odd glass of wine to their children. I am an australian and I was given a glass of wine as a child if the occasion called for it and I am by no means a binge drinker because of it. When I do have children I intend to allow them a drink of wine on special occasionns, wine has a number of health benefits and i dont believe there to be any negative health consequences in such small quantities. I believe that this will help to teach that you do not have to drink to get drunk, but rather that you can drink and enjoy it as a social custom.

I agree with you Hoobley, I dont think that it is the objective to raise children, but rather to raise adults.

Don't apologise Leigh.... that was very well said :) especially "I believe that this will help to teach that you do not have to drink to get drunk, but rather that you can drink and enjoy it as a social custom."

[QUOTE=Tanya;740074]Whould you let your teenager drink?

Alecia's friend's 15th bday party was last night and she was going to stay the night (It wasn't a sleep over, but Alecia was aked if she would like to stay the night).
The friend's mother came to get them (the friend was here borrowing some clothes) and asked tells me she was planning on getting the friend some cans of drink for after the party and asked if Alecia was allowed. I flat out said 'no, Alecia is not allowed to drink'.

I just thought I'd bring it back to the original post. I think we all seem to agree(ish) that a sip here and there as well as being a responsible drinker as a parent is the way to go.

However - my feelings refer to Tanya's post about allowing a teen to drink.
Again - it will not be acceptable for my daughter (15) or her friends to come here and drink, or go anywhere and drink. I will not buy it for her until she can do it for herself.
I totally object to the theory that letting them drink at home is OK, just because it's at home. I also find it ridiculous to buy your child alcohol, drink it at home and THEN let them go out.

As I said before I come from a line of well respected publicans, have worked in the industry (of course!), was brought up with 5 o'clock drinks at home and my own first birthday went for three days. I'm far from a teetotaller....

I will also never permit those stupid colourful lolly drinks or cheap spirits in my house. If they do drink, it will be 'properly', and they will learn their limits by the good example of my family. We have huge celebrations and in all my years I have never (and will never) see an underage family member drunk.
When you are old enough to drink you can join the adults in dancing on the tables and karaoke when the little ones have gone to bed.....lol!

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When you are old enough to drink you can join the adults in dancing on the tables and karaoke when the little ones have gone to bed.....lol!

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Hey! I don't need to be drunk to dance on tables or sing bad kareoke! Nor does DS need to be abed, he loves dancing on tables/worktops and my kareoke LOL. I also would not provide alcohol for a teen party, but then I wouldn't for any party I was giving (except a dinner party).

BTW, your child turns 15 on Monday. For his/her birthday, s/he wants to see a 15-rated film on the Saturday night at the cinema - 2 days before s/he turns 15. Do you allow this? By arguing "it is the law" (as I will), that's the same as with alcohol. But if you allow this, how can you disallow alcohol 2 days before the 18th birthday? What magically changes overnight aside from a number?

BTW, I found this on aussie drinking laws:

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It is illegal to buy, drink or possess alcohol if under 18 but states allow drinking or possessing alcohol on private premises for people under the age of 18 (under the supervision of an adult[s]). Minors may be on licensed premises accompanied by a parent or guardian (but not purchase alcohol) and parents can provide alcohol with a meal on licensed premises.

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So giving an under-18 a bit of alcohol may not be illegal, as previously stated.

True about those laws Ryn. I can't believe it's ok for someone else to give my underage child alcohol. That's why I feel the need to make it quite clear to other parents.

And ha ha - my daughter DID want to go see an 15+ movie a day or two before and I made her wait :cryinglaugh::cryinglaugh::lol:. .

I was taken by my older sister to see 18rated films when i was 13!

I guess i was treated like an adult but i damned well had to behave like one in return. My mum used to give me the "with rights come responsibilities" chat regularly.

Bec

I was just reviewing our film collection recently, hence that example! I guess we'll just cross the bridge when we come to it. I'd like to just say "you're underage, no" but DH probably won't. My mum was slack on film ratings and it didn't affect me too much, but 18 films now are far worse than when we were kids!

I agree, Lulu, how can it be OK for someone else to give DS alcohol?

Ryn the 18 i saw first, age 13 was Natural Born Killers! Not much is worse than that! Maybe 8mm but even that is old nowadays...

Bx

i think drinking alcohol at first under supervision is okay. since they are going to exposed to it anyway and you can't change that. just make sure she's cautious at parties and what not.

i think i had my first drink at 15.. my first few drink were actually with my parents around (to make a long story short, my dad was a manager in a fast food restaurant, i worked there as well, and the ages ranged from 15 to my dad @ 50! we all socilised heaps out of work, which i really enjoyed!) i remember going to parties @ 15-16 and drinking etc, but now that my brother has just turned 15 (he tells us he hasnt tried alcohol yet), i'm scared of him going out drinking, its like i still see him as a little kid! i guess its just the protective big sister in me!!!

I had my first drink(and it was only a sip) when i was 16 i think. I hated it. So I didn't touch another one until i was over 18. My mum hated alcohol. Reason being due to her mother being an alcoholic and never being there to care for her, always dumped her off with her brother. Her brother is also an alcoholic. No idea where he is these days, no idea if he is even still alive... She didn't want me turning into them(and for good reason) so she did not allow alcohol in our home. i think the only reason she did allow me to have a sip of alcohol when i was 16 because her friend offered it to me and kept saying, oh come on, its only a sip, blah blah blah. Being a 16yo, if you've given permission, are you going to say no? After that i did not have another drink until about 2 months after i turned 18, because i was pregnant with DD on my 18th. I was still pregnant when i had the drink(a ****tail) but only had a sip as it made me really sick after that. So my next drink wasn't until i was nearly 19 i think. Anyway, my point is, if you don't allow your teenager to drink, that does not mean they will try and go behind your back or will go wild when they can get their hands on it. Yes, some teens do do this. But i don't think they have been taught about the responsibilities of drinking. Giving them sips here and there at home, to me, is not teaching them responsible drinking. It's basically letting them brag to their friends, oh my parents let me drink all the time, yadda yadda! At that age they're not going to care about responsibility at all. It just seems so wrong. Therefore, i will not be letting any of our children a drop of alcohol until they are 18.

when i was 14 i was allowed 1 drink while i was at home with my parents ( it was a family bbq) my parents said to me until i am 18 the only time i am allowed to drink is at home. but there was family issues and my parents seperation and i went againt those rules against me and instead of going to the 'movie nights' at my friends house i would be going to parties. i wish i hadnt done it as it sorta made my 18th something not to exciting as i looked older than i am so i never got asked for id at the pub wheni was underage.

im not saying your daughter is going to do this. i think the only reason i did it was because of me not having a close relationship with my parents and i think it was a rebellious thing against them for the seperation.

if you trust her then i wouldnt worry, she will listen to you