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Ahhhh TM, TM - how long have you got? Sorry to crash your thread Bath but it seems appropriate to put it here anyway so that people understand how teenagers behave sometimes and why a boarding school can be a blessing.
I don't know how to make this short.
We need a bigger house. Last year I spent the best part of six months looking at all our options so that DSD could continue going to the same school (or within a short commute). This would have financially been a stupid decision. Either I would have had to have gone back to work full-time soon after this baby is born OR we would have had to have paid approx $20K more in rent between what we could rent this house out for and what we'd need to pay in extra rent. Now, the idiot that I am, I was seriously considering doing this because I think DSD has had enough change in her life. DSD was fully aware throughout this time that I was tearing my hair trying to find somewhere suitable that would allow her to continue at the same school. She then came home with a report with all Fs, barely any homework been finished in months. At that point, DP and I decided to move somewhere that would suit us better and stop revolving the decision around DSD who clearly wasn't taking her schooling seriously. So we chose Woodend. It means we will be mortgage-free so I can return to work when I choose and potentially spend a few years home with my little ones, I can learn to drive (which I'm not prepared to do in the city) and we will have a BIG backyard for DD1 who needs space to run around. Much better lifestyle except for DSD who will be moving from the city to the country and away from her friends.
Now of course I understand that she is not going to be happy about this. But I think she seriously thinks she's really hard done by and we should have stayed in Melbourne just for her sake. There's one thing being unhappy about a decision and quite another making out we are awful, selfish parents who should be putting her needs first. Reality check needed. If she'd only put in a little effort we would have bent over BACKWARDS to stay in Melbourne and we've told her this.
Anyhow, after getting mostly Fs last year, she now starts VCE. Resolves to pull up her socks. Tells anyone and everyone about how she is really motivated, knows it's really important, knows she can't afford to stuff up.
We found out last week that since February she's had 39 absences from class. Mostly getting out of class to go and see Student Wellbeing who apparently are a bit sick of her because they think she's a drama queen and is using them as an excuse to get out of class. I should say at this point that knowing that we would be facing a difficult period ahead, we saw a family counsellor earlier this year but DSD has said she doesn't want to continue. Basically, she would rather see Student Wellbeing because it gets her out of class than go and see a family counsellor after school in her own time.
Anyway, after we found out about the absences, there were more promises about trying harder, yes she knows how important it is. Things will be different now because she's really determined to study chinese medicine and she knows she will have to finish VCE for that. The very next day she took the entire day off school.
DP found out, called her and told her not to hurry home. He had planned to take her out for dinner.
She has used the 'not hurry home' line as an excuse to tell all her friends that she's been kicked out of home and stay out the entire weekend partying. Didn't answer her phone when DP tried to call. Because it suited her down to the ground to manipulate his words and pretend she was scared to come home.
Then when she'd tired of staying with friends and with school the next day, she rang her mum in the states, telling a sob story about how she'd been kicked out - basically so her mum could then soften us up to allow her back with no consequences. DP and DSD were texting on Sunday during which time he told her no more getting out of class to go to Student Wellbeing (welcome to do it in lunchtime, just not in class time) and offering to pick her up. Text back "not interested, I'll c u when I c u". Then abusive texts about how I should get a nose job and orthodontics now that I'm a wealthy woman (we'd sold the house that weekend).
Monday - took the whole day off school again.
Monday night - we confronted her. More crap about how she'd "made a pact with herself that Friday would be her last day off". Erm ... so why then take Monday off too? Admitted she’d been lying for weeks about having free periods first thing (so she could lie in). No remorse, just said, “yep, I lied,” with a smug look (it’s the smugness that kills me). So then we explained why were confiscating her phone. All hell broke loose. Again looked me in the eye when I asked her where it was and said, “it’s not here” even though she’d called us on it five minutes previously. We found it and it’s been taken off her. It’s the only thing that provoked any reaction from her because it’s the only thing she cares about.
I should also say at this point, that DP and I have told her many times that some kids just don’t like/excel at school and that there ARE other options. We are not pressuring her to finish VCE or to get good grades. The only thing we pressure her to do is to actually GO to class. She keeps telling us that she wants to finish VCE but her actions don’t. Then she manipulates what we’ve said about other options and tells people that we don’t think she’s smart enough to go to college and we’re not very supportive!!!!
And that novel is actually the short version of how she’s been behaving the last few months. Basically her way of operating is to lie and then manipulate.
DP and I have basically spent the last four days talking about where to go from here and I haven’t even had chance to bloody celebrate selling the house!!!
Not to worry, we have a plan.
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Fionas: Where will she go to school (assuming shes going to try to do VCE, which she might have to start over with that many absences cos theres an attendance requirement), Braemar? Or will you send her to school further out? Victoria is seriously lacking in boarding schools compared with other states.
Bath: It sounds like the decions you made while hard is really turning out have provide the best possible outcome you could have hoped for. I truly hope that it does
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Pandora - boarding school is an option we can have up our sleeve that we don't plan on using - just as a last resort (for her it would be perceived as a punishment, not for its educational opportunity). She will go to the local high school and we'll see how we'll go. Despite having 39 absences, she is meeting the attendance requirement because her current school lets her make up the time after school.
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Oh Fiona, that just sounds so familiar! Right down to the smug, "so yeah, what you gonna do about it?" look. The one that can make parents who are against smacking feel like knocking them into next week.
With dd, in the end, we just said to her, fine, don't go to school. But you aren't sitting around inside the house watching TV all day eating our food and using the phone and internet. You can go out and look for a job. Fortunately for us her bedroom is a sleep out, so we would (this is mean) make her get her lunch in the morning with everyone else before school, and she'd be locked out of the house, with access to water, her lunch, and a toilet. This seems extreme, but really, this was the consequence of not going to school. She did end up getting a job - at Maccas. This fell through and she had a Come To Jesus moment when she realised that crap jobs like that were all she was going to get if she kept on the way she kept on.
Eventually she decided that she needed to go back to school... and she has missed one single class all year! And that was perfectly legitimate, and she was in tears over missing it, she was so proud of her attendance record.
We got lots of that abusive behaviour, too. I set some really strong boundaries around that (if I were getting abusive texts, I'd probably be confiscating the phone, for instance) and it gradually tapered off. It's so hard with smaller kids in the house, knowing that they are watching that kind of thing and kind of getting the message that mum and dad will put up with being spoken to that way. Ugh.
Oh and the way they manage to make it that it is All Your Fault and avoid any personal responsibility for their situation... it makes my blood boil!!! Parents who survive that phase deserve medals, a massage and a spa.
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Ahhh, the similarities TMTM!
What pees me off even more is that last year she HAD a weekend job for about four weeks. I'd been encouraging to get one because I thought she needed to build up an employment history incase she gave up on VCE/left school at 18. She kept it for about four weeks then said she'd given it up because she didn't like the women who came in on shopping tours. So even having had a job in retail (which she KNOWS is exactly the sort of job she would be getting if she left school at 18), she stuffs up school. I don't understand why she thinks she's above working in that kind of job, I really don't. I was getting straight As at school and worked in shops and in factories, none of which I thought was beneath me, I was just really proud of earning my own money. We even told her that we may match whatever she'd saved from her weekend job when she hit 18 so she could then use it to put towards buying a car or whatever. How much motivation can you try to provide someone?
Anyhow, it's good to know other parents are going through the same thing. Basically I've banned her from being in the same room as me for the last three days and have told her quite plainly that I don't want her here because I don't like people who tell lies. DP has tried talking to her about this, because it's the constant lying that gets to him (and now me after being on the receiving end of it) and gone through times when she stuffed up but was honest about it and tried comparing the mild consequences then to the consequences when she lies. She didn't say much. No sign of remorse.
She and her mate have been looking at renting their own place. For a whole lot of reasons that I won't go into, she knows this is not realistic so hopefully that will provide her epiphany. She's now carrying on about how she's been to all her classes for two days as if she deserves a gold medal!
These last few days have not been my finest hours and I've found them quite distressing because I now don't believe ANYTHING she says. It also really makes you question the way we parent these days in terms of being so understanding and accommodating and I've found myself channelling my grandad who just would not have put up with this crap and seemed to turn out wonderful, honest, hardworking sons as a result. His answer if people continually overslept - chuck a bucket of water over them
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Oh FionaI know, it's the lies that are the worst part
When my DD lied it was more by omission... and she didn't actually believe that was lying until recently. Fortunately she was pretty good at confessing her sins if she was sprung... and would be quite forthcoming. Maybe she is a bit like me in that way: too damn lazy to lie! It's such hard work in the end. You are doing so well not to be openly bitter about your DSDs mother. It must be so hard to have to pick up the pieces. I agree that once she experiences independance she will probably undergo a clearer realisation of where you were coming from.... she will also have other people pull her into line which should have more impact than her parents. I LOVE it when people pull my kids into line for this reason. As long as it's firm but fair... not just because I want them to be treated fairly... just so that it doesn't give them something else to arc up about! Does your DP have any siblings (her aunts and uncles) that could do this? My sister has been invaluable in this regard. Anyhow Keep Calm And Carry On my dear. You've been in my thoughts *more hugs*
Lucy in the sky with diamonds.
Fi - the only difference between Bath, Me, TooMany and you is that nothing has actually happened yet iykwim?
The rest of us have gone though all the bollocks you are right now, we are just further in or past it. This won't last forever. All three of these girls got to the end point, be it moving out of home or being locked out and all three are juuuust fine now.
I wish it was behind you already (they can be such turds) - don't forget WE are behind you right now xoxoxoxo
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I love this thread for making me feel normal!!
DD is a fantastic liar, she does it so often I swear she doesn't even know she's doing it anymore
She is living at my dad's atm, long story not pretty but it has made her appreciate me more and be more loving.
I must say I am eternally grateful to McDonalds for keeping DD in employment for the last 4 years and giving her responsibility and some good training for the real world.
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Amen to that
Bath, I'm so glad to hear everything is going well for your DD. It must have been a hard decision to make but well worth it now.
Fiona... I have no wise words for you but much sympathy.
We had a horrible year with DD last year, and still now I feel like I'm kind of hanging on by my fingernails...it's ok...for now....
actually I have to go & see my sister this weekend & nut out a few things that should NOT be going on when DD is there
Anyway I just wanted to offer a 'I hear ya'
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Yep, the situation is a bit more complicated by the fact that I'm her stepmum and DP, I think, is often softer on her because he feels guilty about leaving her in the US and returning to Australia (which I think he SHOULD feel guilty about - I don't mince my words on that one but life must go on). HIs version of discipline is to rant and rave for five minutes, then feel sorry for her and give her lots of attention. So in a sense the attention rewards her for the bad behaviour because she knows that he will calm down after the initial rant/rave and the consequences are never that bad (though I think the phone confiscation is probably hitting her hard).
I'm not bitter about having her here but of course, putting an amateur psychologist hat on, a big part of me wonders if she tells so many lies because her mum tells so many lies. That's not me being the critical new partner - it's my direct experience in three years dealing with her mum.
That's why it's so helpful to me to see that a lot of teenagers lie - AND ones in families where I'm sure the parents don't lie ie. Bath, TMTM and Lulu.
Bath - DP has three brothers so three SILs. One of them is really good but she lives in Adelaide. One of them we rarely see and the other one we do see is a silly goose and is not currently talking to me because I am a big bad meanie for not sending DSD to a private school even though we can afford it. I've told her that I would rather pay for an Afghan refugee who is slaving away over their homework in a housing commission flat trying to make something of themselves than send DSD who has all the advantages of a home with parents who would HELP her in any way possible if she only put in more effort. Would be quite happy to send her to a private school if she was trying her best. Anyhow, that SIL hates me and is not diplomatic enough not to show it to DSD so yep, not encouraging much contact there.
I think where we may have been going wrong a little lately is using consequences that actually infact make DD's life easier. So her punishment for leaving DD with a 96-year-old was that I didn't trust her to look after DD again. Now that suits DSD down to the ground - means she doesn't have to do it. So I'll change that to "you can babysit but only when someone else is here". In our new house, that will mean that she can entertain DD in the back garden for an hour while I make dinner in peace (or look after the baby).
Not talking to her this week initially worked for her until I made it very clear that meant that I didn't want her in the same room as me which means she's basically confined to her bedroom. I didn't change the rule - that was the agreement I made with DP at the start of the week. They both just thought I'd cave in after a day or so. So I haven't caved, have put up with DP calling me immature and a tyrant and said this will only change when you arrange a time when the three of us can talk about what's happened. No talk, no change to the rule. I overheard her this morning telling DP that she was going to stay somewhere else tonight because obviously being confined to her room IS working as a punishment, she's getting peed off. And DP is getting peed off with me which means he knows that he's got to arrange a time for the three of us to talk.
When we talk I'll basically tell her that this whole situation has come about because of her not going to school and lying about having free periods. I'll basically ask her to explain what's going on - she's been told that we'll support her if she wants to leave school yet she keeps saying she's committed to VCE. I'll tell her that if she is still saying that she wants to do VCE then I will make sure we get her attendance record each week (she knows that her dad would forget/wouldn't bother) and it will be up to her dad how to handle it if she misses classes. That way, I'm not doing the discipline, I'm just making sure that DP is aware of the facts. (Naturally, DP and I will no doubt discuss it but I can at least maintain a facade of me not interfering).
I'll also tell her that if she lies to her dad that's between the two of them and he decides the consequences but if she lies to me, then I decide the consequences. I think after being confined to her room for three days, she knows that I'm pretty tough. I should also say that DSD and I have lived together in total for two and a half years now, and until now, I have always kept out of the discipline but really I've had no need to step in because any bad behaviour has never been directed at me. But I won't have people live in my house and lie to my face.
Last edited by fionas; May 21st, 2010 at 12:36 PM. : had another brainwave
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As some of you might know (via FB etc) our DD has come home for the school holidays!
So we sat down to her favourite chicken lasagne on Saturday night and she told us all the things she couldn't while on the phone in her dorm. As expected she still doesn't feel like she quite fits in yet.... her citiness still seems to make it hard for her to be accepted by some influential girls. But the biggest concern was hearing of her horror stories of rascism
text box playing up... better post... will add to.
Last edited by Bathsheba; June 28th, 2010 at 12:55 PM.
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Ok so now it's Monday and she is still on her 'best behaviour'. ASKING not telling me whether she can do things... being very appreciative... "Mum my bed is soooo comfortable! Did you put a doona under my bottom sheet? it feels great!" (I couldn't find the mattress protector). And she has thanked me profusely for all the yummy food. She hasn't whinged when i asked her not to turn the heaters up (apparently the girls can adjust the heating in their rooms and she sleeps with the thermostat on 28'C every night!). And she's just being bascially pleasant to be around. She has gone to a friends across the road this morning but has been coming back every hour to ask if she can continue staying over there watching DVDs. Impressed. BUT a test will be tonight. A birthday party. A big one at a friends place with about 60 guests! We have spoken to the parents... no alcohol... no leaving the premises unless with parents etc. We have told DD she can only go for 2 hours but she seems ok with that... from 7pm to 9pm. We asked the parents outright if they knew if the problem boy was attending and they had heard about him and said "no". Still, we held a party here in January and only about 20 teens were here and that was hard enough to supervise...
I haven't asked her to return to doing her old jobs except for keeping her room tidy... so we've yet to see how that goes... according to my sister she was most helpful at her place though.
In 2 weeks we are going to drive her back up there... that will also be interesting.
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That all sounds fantastic Bath! No doubt a weight at least partially off your mind. She sounds like she's handling the social intricacies of boarding school quite maturely - and once she's found her 'place', I think she'll provide a necessary wider worldly view, coming from the city. It's easy for prejudices to grow in small communities, so maybe when she starts to gently challenge the prejudiced attitudes she'll find out how much of a help she can be?
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I agree - absolutely fantastic! She also sounds quite wise that she is waiting a little while before challenging the accepted opinions/attitudes. Much easier to sway people once they like you.
Good for her, good for you and good for your whole family. Sounds like it really was the best thing all round.
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Interesting thread ... I dabble in the idea of sending DD to boarding school, but mainly because of the educational opportunities, since I'm in a very small town. That and she drives me bonkers quite often. We'll see.
But all these horror stories of 15yo girls - when does this phase start?
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DD started to disengage from her studies in about year 8. She became interested in grafitti culture in year 9 and it took off from there.... she started making friends with kids who had dropped out of high school and were encouraging her on the same path (probably for company!). She had chosen 'good' boyfriends until this year... year 10. And whoa! what a choice! one minute she was seeing a nice boy who was into athletics etc the next she was sneaking out to see a drug user and dealer who was known to police. My advice is to know your technology and how social networks work... it would have all gone unnoticed unless DH and i knew how to monitor sites like facebook and also about proxy sites etc. And sad to say they can become very convincing liars
Lucy in the sky with diamonds.
I think they get strange around the age of 12 ish (hormonal), the ramp it up from about 14 and steadily progress to full blown horrors at 15/16.
Do boarding school
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Yep... started at about 12 and hopefully she has now peaked... it wasn't an overnight thing... we got warning LOL But I was in denial for ages.
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