teenager girl chat

OMG I need to vent this morning!
I am so sick of the attitude I get from DD! Its that damn tone in her voice and that way they speak that makes my blood boil.
This morning I told her that we didn't want her to work until 10pm on a weeknight anymore (we never did but somehow it happened once and i didn't kick up a stink so suddenly its fait accompli)
here's the convo we had on the phone after she had left to wlak to school (well athletics carnival)
DD-why not???
Me- because its your HSC year and its too late on a weeknight when you need to study
DD well they have already done the roster for next week (remember to add a lot of attitude to your thoughts when you read this LOL)
Me- well after that no more
DD- well you'll need to give me money then cause they won't give me enough shifts
Me- you need to cut down on going out anyway
DD- I barely ever go out now
Me- you are always out
DD- thats just hanging out with M or H, you'll have to give me money if you don't let me work.
Me- you will still get shifts, who is in charge of rosters I ill call them and explain.
DD- oh what your'e going to ring them at 7 o clock in the morning??
Me- no I will ring them later
DD- they don't care, you just don't get it.
Me- we are trying to do the best for you, its an important year
DD- Oh as if dad cares
Me- he does which is why he doesn't want you working late
Me- oh ha ha,
She then announced she was crossing a road and had to go.
I then woke up DD2 who proceeded to whinge about everything.
I HATE MY LIFE!!!

I just wanted to pop in and say... YOU GIRLS ARE SCARING ME S***LESS!!!! Ava already has the attitude of a teenager and EVEN rolls her eyes at me!!!! Oh dear.. im not looking forward to this *sigh*

:

---

Its that damn tone in her voice and that way they speak that makes my blood boil.

---

Thats it! Thats it exactly. Its the tone! Its all you can do to stop yourself wanting to kill them!

No one else has ever spoken to me like that. It hurts when its your own child that is speaking to you like you are some lower form of subhuman life and unworthy of her time, let alone a civilised conversation.

I guess the problem really is though that they hate us because we see the fallacy behind their logic.

You are letting her work. Just not past 10pm. :)

Kirsty - I hope that means she is getting it out of her system now for you, lol.

Ah hoobes - thats just the daily grind though isnt it? Angie managed to squeeze a melodramatic dash to her room followed by a door slamming in yesterday - in between laughing about the fact that she has been getting spoilt over the other kids lately while we had a family debrief.

Ah dear - the joys.

:

---

Thats it! Thats it exactly. Its the tone! Its all you can do to stop yourself wanting to kill them!

No one else has ever spoken to me like that. It hurts when its your own child that is speaking to you like you are some lower form of subhuman life and unworthy of her time, let alone a civilised conversation.

---

Yup. And then when you call her on it... it's "What? all I said was ...."
..yes but it's the way you said it...."well, I'm just saying"(spoken like you are a true imbecile and have never known or understood anything in your life and are a waste of time to speak to now...)

oh mrsmac I could hear that convo perfectly.... I have even thought about taping Sav so that I can play it back to her.

- I should add at this point, she has been quite good for the last week or so. Generally agreeable & not too much attitude. It won't last though :( it never does....oh well at least we get some respite, otherwise there would be bloodshed.

Oh wonderful .. the things I am looking forward to .... NOT!! :lol:

Hi all, I'm back and after reading what has happened since I've last been on here - it all sounds still so familiar lol. Sarah is now 15 and omg did we have some fun times this last 12 months. She has been seeing a counsellor, who helped us as well, to understand that it is nothing we have done just her behaving badly and taking it out on us (more specifically DF). The counsellor did say that kids tend to pick one parent to make the brunt of their rants and poor DF was it. She started off depressed and has now progressed to just mean lol. She was still drinking, smoking and stealing and lying about everything (so I have total sympathy for other parents going through the same thing) and she refused to accept any responsibility for any of it. The counsellor suggested that we start treating her like a guest in a hotel. Show interest when she talks to us but otherwise ignore her. It was hard to do but the emotional separation did work for us. We could look at her having tantrums and see the child she still is without it really affecting us to much.

Just lately she has improved no end and is nearly the lovely girl she used to be. I am not holding my breath for this to last but it would be nice. We have been told though that at 16 she is moving out and there is nothing we can do as she will then be legal. The only problem is that next year when she turns 16 is her school certificate year and I have a feeling she is not going to go and therefore will not get any education. She will be reduced to low paying jobs until she wises up and continues her schooling.

As for her temper she has managed to mainly get that under control (thank goodness) as she was totally of the wall with rage over the smallest things. She still has the contempt in her voice and still believes that we know nothing lol but at least it is getting better. I'm even getting more cuddles :) and so is DF.

I'm holding out for the light at the end of the tunnel (that i'm told is there lol) so in the mean time I'll just come on here and vent with all you other ladies going through the same things

Nice chatting to you all

Kim

Kim its so tough, my DD is 14 and very trying at the moment. Thankfully i must say she is still very open to me and we talk about almost everything. She has many friends that drink and go to parties but i know her time will come and hopefully we will get through it. I really cant complain about her at the moment as she is a good kid really, ofcourse she is moody and she has a tendency to take her moods out on Df alot, i use to think it was because he is not her father but i have been told by many that it is normal as you said to take it out on one parent.
A good friend of mines daughter was very similiar to your daughter and she has recently turned 16, since starting year10 she has almost changed overnight, she now never misses a day of school, she does her homework and is more helpful and respectful at home, they are not sure what has sparked the change in her, but the entire household is so much happier. I think they did a great job the last 2 -3 years with her, they were firm but within reason, she did some terrible things to them and once i was there when she had one of her "skitz attacks", i couldnt believe it was the same shy girl i had known. It seems to happen in teen girls from 13 to 16, i know with my dd there are so many things worrying her at the moment, mostly being popular and her friends are now splitting into two groups consisting of the ones that go to parties and drink and the ones that dont., thankfully at the moment dd is in the latter but i am well aware that can change overnight. I have faith she will make the right choices in life but we all make mistakes and experiment, i just hope she waits until she is a bit more mature. There bodies grow alot quicker than there minds, which is certainly something of concern my dd is 14 but has a body like a 16/17 year old, we have boys calling and texting her that are 2 years older and its very worrying.
I was very sneaky when i was her age, i got away with alot as my parents worked alot, and im sure if my mum new half the stuff i got up to she would have a fit, even now.

Abb I understand exactly where you are coming from with body image. Sarah is 5'10" and has been for over a year and has C cup boobs :( and because she likes to act a lot older than what she is we have had issues with the boys too. Luckily she has a boyfriend atm who is a really nice kid and I think he is partly responsible for the attitude change. She is very proud of the fact that she hasn't had a drink since January 8? (I still don't drink lol) but is finding it hard to give up smoking.

We had a great chat a couple of months ago now and I was able to give her a breakdown of expenses of what to expect when she moves out. I think it shocked her at how much she would need each week to survive. And earning minimum wage ie $5 per hour how many hours she would have to work. I'm hoping that she takes it all in and decides to stay at home until she is further educated.

I'm glad your daughter is mostly good because when they turn into the ***** from hell they REALLY turn lol. I can laugh about some of the stuff now but equally I'm sure she hasn't finished yet.

We just have to hope that we have a good enough relationship with our daughters/sons that they know they can talk to us and if they get in real trouble they know they can depend on us to be there.

Kim in NSW the laws have changed about leaving school and she can't leave without an apprenticeship until she's 17 I think.

Glad to hear things are looking up for people, DD is now in a little granny flat downstairs at my dad's house, she is realising how expensive it is to live LOL She is trying really hard with uni and has settled down so much. I find not seeing her all the time has done wonders for our relationship!! (I talk to her daily and see her a few times a week, she's only 1km away)

The 15-17 yr age is tough but as we are half way through 18 I have found it soooooo much easier so hang in there.

I know about the changes mrsmac but that will not stop her from moving out. Unfortunately Sarah has been offered a job next year doing stuff with horses (her dream job) so not sure if she will finish yr 10 or just take the job and forget about education. Maybe I can speak to this lady that wants to employ her and see if she will hold the job until Sarah has finished her schooling. Maybe she means after Sarah has finished yr10. What an incentive to do well.

Hopefully she'll realise how expensive it is to move out and change her mind! Its so hard to make them realise how important education is, DD went through a stage where she didn't want to go to uni and was just going to move down the south Coast with her then BF, thankfully she changed her mind!!

Wow, I can't believe it's almost a year since I posted in this thread....
We have had DD in counselling for depression which has helped a bit, also on meds which helped a LOT both with her depression & with her attitude (unexpected but a welcome result).
I was very reluctant to have her on medication at her age, but it was after months of counselling, also my mother & I both suffer depression so there is a history there.
She stopped taking them a few weeks ago & is back to her old self with the attitude & arguing.

We had an incident the other night - I won't go over the whole thing again but I posted about it, will add the link - she ripped our screen door completey off the hinges :(
She is grounded until Monday night, yesterday she tells me this is very unfair 'nobody gets grounded anymore' I said 'well how many people are telling their parents to F- off?' and she said 'quite a lot actually'. I said well good for them but in this house we don't do that without consequences :rolleyes:

Then yesterday afternoon we were discussing buying her a hairpiece for Physie (dance / exercise) which I am expecting to be around $100. She wants a looong one & someone said it would be more like $170. We can't afford that. This leads to another 'discussion'. From there we go to the shopping centre, and she wants proper sleepers, because her ears are getting infected from cheap earrings. Fine I say, you can have a pair. She says well I have 3 sets of piercings. Hmmm. I say 'you did them yourself...I never agreed to all those.. I can do one set for you this week.
So she sulks & glares & carries on...we have another huge argument ending with both of us in tears. During this argument I ran down teh list of things we have to get / pay for this week, and how much money we have to do it...trying to explain why a pair of earrings can make a difference...and she says you don't have to tell me all that...I said well I'm trying to make you understand. She says 'well you buy a lot of crap, too' and I said well, we work for it, we decide where it goes and she interrupts & says 'yeah and you have CHILDREN!' which is when I lost it, because yes we do indeed have FOUR children and we spend more on her than on the others put together :wall:

I went up to her room after we got home & said look, I love you very much and I am really trying to calm down...I hate it when you swear at me and I really have to work to keep my cool. And she said 'well, it got your attention, didn't it?' I said 'what the... so how do I get YOUR attention then?' and she said 'I don't really give a s*** if you tell me to F- off' which is when I walked away & said well I tried :wall:
I went & sat downstairs & just cried ...what on earth do I do, I have no idea when she's like this.
And I KNOW that I am reacting badly, I end up yelling & swearing (not at her, just in general but still not good) - she really pushes my buttons. I feel like she WANTS a fight though, she knows what to say & she does it just to get that reaction.
I said to her counsellor I feel like her emotional punching bag

Sorry for the huge vent.... :redface:

Oh Fleur, I can so sympathise with you. Sarah was so doing all the same things. It really tests your patience I know. Try doing the "hotel guest" thing that my counsellor suggested and see how it goes. Don't spend ANY more money on her as it will be rewarding her for her bad behaviour (our counsellor told us this). Also try to get her back on her meds. Obviously she still needs them. Keep setting the boundaries that you have established with her regarding the swearing etc and follow through with the consequences. The other kids are watching and seeing how far you will let her go and then they will try it (experience here :( ) You have to think about the rest of the kids and yourselves and what is best for you guys and NOT let your DD interfere with the rest of the family situation. It is hard but it does work.

Fingers crossed for you that it all calms down again soon. Take care

Kim

hi ladies,
its been so
long since ive been on here well things are ok with clarissa some weeks are so peaceful then the next week well omg but im coping (just)
shes turning 15 in july my biggest thing lately is she thinks she can do whatever she wants and the swearing its so bad
shes doing her yr 10 this year and shes working so shes pretty ocupied but if i say no to one thing then i know look out its going to be horrible for the next couple of hours !
hows everyone doing ??

I'm hearing you shazza. What is it with the 15 y/os that think they can do what they want grrrrrrr.

Sarah is back with a vengence. This morning she didn't want to go to school so had a tantrum, then got to school and had some more. DF has told me to expect a phone call from the school to go and pick her up either for tears or fighting. I'm telling you if it is for fighting she had better be prepared to go a round with me then because I'm getting sick of it. She spent nearly all the long weekend away from us and has come home with a huge attitude again. I'm not going to let her spent all this time away any more. She has another counsellor appointment on Wednesday (ooops tomorrow lol) so will see what he says to do. She used the "I'm not hungry" bit again this morning so she didn't eat breakfast or take any lunch so I txt her employer and told her that Sarah can't work until she eats properly lol (bad mumma) Sarah was not happy (her employer txt her and told her she couldn't work) but I'm sick of not calling her bluffs. She is still underweight and refuses to eat healthily but will eat crap. She is still adamant about moving out when she reaches 16 (that is only February) and is now saying she doesn't want to finish school. AAAARRRGGGHHHH I just want to pull my hair out!!!! At her age I was still to scared of my mum to play up. No way would I have told her what to do or I would have ended up with a slap up the head. At least (just yet any way) Sarah is not telling me to F-off. I think she knows that there will be severe punishment for that one.

Sorry guys for the vent but this is the only place I can do it and get opinions on what to do. My mum just gets judgemental and some of my other friends aren't having to go through this with their kids (lucky aren't they).

:grouphug: sounds as if most of us here need a hug! I almost feel bad to update that things are going well with our 15yo DD. She has settled into boarding school really well and exceeded all our expectations. We talk to her every night on the phone and she seems to be over the worst of the homesickness. Living away from home really seems to helped her appreciate us as parents. To he honest though it's been the support we have received from my sister, BIL, my aunt and uncle and my grandfather that has really helped. DD has spent most weekends with these extended family members and because she has had to be on her best behaviour a lot of her bad habits have been dealt with. My family basically reinforce DH's and my values so this has been important and valuable. For instance she has had to be tidier: no more leaving wet towels on the bedroom floor etc. She was also not eating breakfast when she was here at home but at boarding school she can't snack when she feels like it and has therefore started to eat breakfast with the other girls... It is compulsory to be in the dining hall at 7.15am anyhow so I guess she figures she might as well eat something. She also hadn't had access to caffeine drinks which was also worrying me when she was at home (friends would buy her cans of Mother etc) and she would help herself to my coffee. Best of all there had been no more sneaking out at night!

I know not all families can send their kids to boarding school but even time away from home with trusted extended family would have helped our DD. She will be coming home for the school holidays in 2 weeks and we are really looking forward to it... And hoping that she keeps up the good work at home as she has while away!

That's so excellent Bath - don't feel bad, it's great to hear positive stories :)

:

---

That's so excellent Bath - don't feel bad, it's great to hear positive stories :)

---

:yeahthat: Absolutely!

Don't feel bad Bath, I think we need some good stories to prove that it can happen.

Sarah was in tears all day at school today and I had about 3 phone calls from them asking me to pick her up but I stuck to my guns and told them what she was doing and they believed me omg so they kept her at school until the end of the day. Am fed up with the 3 y/o behaviour cause then she says "you treat me like an adult and then like a kid. Make up your mind" grrrrrrrrr we treat her how she acts. Have to go as she is home and need to deal with what happened today.

Wish me luck

I used to get this. If she was shirty about something I would always get a phone call sometime to pick her up from the sick bay. I ended up refusing too.

I also got the moving out at 16thing. I took a tactic other than telling her she couldn't, mainly becuase I knew I couldn't stop her. She brought it up in a councelling session and myself and the councellor, asked how she planned to do it. "Friends house" - what if they don't have room? "I dunno" How will you pay the bills? etc etc

When she would scream that she was moving as soon she could I would just say - I wish you wouldn't but if you feel you have to there isn't much I can do is there? It took the wind right out of her sails and made her think a little. It's also much better for the blood pressure

I'm the non hysterical times when we could talk I would bring it up and explain how expensive it would be for her and that I was happy for her to stay, that I would provide for her when she was at high school. I expected a small amount of board when she got to university. So basically I'd discuss it in an adult manner so she felt listened to - and in the same way I would if one of her friends wanted to discuss moving out.

Lulu we have tried that. Unfortunately she just wants to do what she wants to do. I have already sat down with her and we have worked out the finances and I think it freaked her out a little but now she wants to move in with the boyfriend and I think she thinks he will look after her but he is only 16 now and unemployed. Sometimes I just want to smack her up the head, especially now that 11y/o DS is trying it on to.

We are now actually thinking that it might be the best thing for everyone if she does. It will show her how hard life is when you're not prepared for it and it will give us some stress free time. I'm almost ashamed to admit how much I want a stress free home right now. I can feel myself withdrawing from everyone as I feel overloaded by everything. DF is ranting and raving about DS1 and his attitude while lavishing affection on his girls (older 3 aren't his). I'm stuck in the middle trying to smooth things over. I just feel I'm in a no win situation. DF thinks I should be siding with him no matter what and DS thinks it should be him. I need a holiday

I hear ya sista! Too tired to write more but totally understandable.

Kim, don't worry about talking her out of it. Just let her go, cos the crunch will come soon - it's likely that the BF's parents won't have a bar of it. Oh lordy we have had a few of those happen over the years, kids getting some big idea of who they are going to move in with.....and those people (or parents) are WTF? hahahahahaha!

Only problem Lulu is that the bf and his sister will be living in a house owned by their parents who aren't in the picture. At the moment the bf lives with his nan and pop until the tenants move out of the house. His sister is not much older than he is and she is pregnant so her bf will also be living in the house. I can see a disaster in the making here but yes I think I will need to let her go.

Kim i sympathise with you. i hope you find a solution, i am no help sorry.

We are having issues here at the moment, thankfully i had 5 days away in GC with Bb girls or i would be flipping it big time at the moment. DD is in year 8 and she does no homework, none at all, and when asked she always she has none, i checked her planner last night and its blank, she is suposed to fill it in after every class and we have had numerous meetings at the school with the co-ordinator of late to say she is going to fail maths and science as she has not handed in any homework for the year. The thing that frustrates me is her class work is very good, she gets 80 to 90% in most subjects but her overall marks are terribel as she doesnt submitt homework. I have tried the whole taking things off her (mobile, internet, ipod etc) but it doesnt seem to work. I am dumb founded at why she just wont do it, she wouldnt have more than half an hour a day of homework, i sat with her and worked out a timetable for the week, but when it comes to the time she says oh i dont have any.
I know this is probably a small issue compared to some of all your problems at them moment but she told me she is skipping 3rd and 4th period today as i received a call from the teacher yesterday saying she is giving her detention once again, she said well im just not going to that class anyway.

Oh Abb I so hate it when they hit year 8 as that is when it seems to start. I'm so sorry. My DD refused to do homework as well and most of her assignments and kept it up until the end of year 9. We ended up repeating her as we gave her sufficient time to improve and told her this is what we were going to do if she didn't. So far this year she seems to have done most of them. We now have the issue of her telling us that next year when she turns 16 she is leaving home and she has been offered a job so she is going to give up school. She thinks that she will do her year 10 at Tafe but I have my doubts. Oh well what can we do. Big hugs to everyone having the problems, good luck to us all

Abb: our DD was exactly the same. Sadly we found no solution. She just boycotted homework. Because i had my two younger boys to deal with i found it really hard to help her or to keep and eye on her to make sure she wasn't just in her room mucking around. Now she has two hours of SUPERVISED homework time in a library each day where she is not allowed to use or have a mobile phone etc. She has been doing every bit of homework. it's a shame her previous school didn't offer this service. it's so hard when you have younger kids at home to deal with... :hug:

Bath that is exactly it i am struggling to find the time to make sure she is doing it and we are considering having another baby but atm i dont think its a good idea. Dp keeps saying if we waited until things are sorted with DD it will be too late as i am almost 37, i am starting to think we shouldnt have anymore. DD keeps saying i hope your not planning on having more kids, as much as she loves DS, i think she is feeling left out. I was a single mum for 8 years and i think she misses all the attention. I always wondered if this is why she is acting up.

I gave up hassling about homework through sheer lack of time and energy. I did try to help with homework schedules at one point.

I would just tell her it was a waste since she was so bright, and gave a few anecdotes of friends that left it too late and couldn't get into the courses they wanted, nor get work without a passing year. I would say things like - you would be a terrific enviro scientist/band manager/Translator and left her to think about it. I played to her strengths, things she knew she was good at (biology, language), and let her know you can get paid for doing things you love and make HEAPS of $$$ (all teens love money).

After a while , even if we weren't talking, I'd get a random text telling me her scores on the latest test. Then I'd do a stupid mummy dance to embarrass her, which she secretly loved.

Bath, I told her how my GF went to boarding school and always had homework done when school was over and that thought appealed to her alot. Even in yr 9 she would stay in at lunch to finish off her work (and be RANCID when she got home lol).

At the end of the day, though EVERYTHING I always opened up the bigger picture to her, in the coolest way I could - in a way that she could picture her sucess on her own. I took my own expectations out of the picture because if she is going to rebel against ME that was fine Ijust didn't want her to cut her nose off just to spite me iykwim?

Abb, I don't know... so many kids act up at this age, I don't know that it's down to any one thing. I know DD made a few comments while I was PG 'this baby is ALREADY taking time away from me' - that kind of thing - but she adores her little sister now. I really think a lot of it is just the age :dunno:

WRT moving out, schoolwork etc....I think I have an advantage (if you want to call it that) of having been a teen mum... DD is pretty keen on NOT doing what I did.

I moved out of home at 16 (at the start of year12) and was pregnant a few months later (not because I moved out of home - it would most likely have happened anyway :p) - and there went my plans for uni & a brilliant career (of some sort).

DD has always kind of looked at me & thought 'no thanks'.... we had a discussion the other day about her moving out & she has said she wants to move out with a bunch of friends (they've been talking about it) AFTER she's finished school, and ONLY if she has a job. Phew.
She's a bit scatty & disorganised with her schoolwork & her time (she gets it from me I think) but she wants to do well, and that's a big part of it.

Speaking of work...she got her first job :dance: at a bakery across the road (which suits me awesomely :D)
...and I got a card in the mail the other day which read

:

---

Just a short note to let you know that it is a pleasure teaching Panda! She is mature and intelligent and highly creative and has a positive influence on those around her.
(HOD Arts Dept)

---

which of course is awesome, and we had a big friendly argument over where to put it up on the wall, so everyone can see it :D

Sorry to toot my horn :) but I wanted to come in & post something positive. It's not all bad (phew, again)

Fleur great to hear she got the job at the bakery.
In a hurry as im suppose to be at work. oops
Im very annoyed at the school as they are quick to give out bad rep (demerits) but not so with communication, i have rang twice today and no one has returned my call. Think its time for a call to the vice principal as i dont seem to be getting anywhere.

I found with DD that in the end I did as Lulu did and said "well its your life" BUT still made her subtly aware of the benefits of education. She knows i earn a decent income cause i went to uni and did teaching and therefore could get a job I loved which also paid OK so she was aware of the advantages of study but really needed me to pull back a bit and leave it to her.

Its so hard cause you have all these young mums with stars in their eyes who are so idealistic about how they will parent their teen etc and the reality is so much bluddy harder than they can ever imagine sometimes!!

yeah cos we are all gonna be beeeesst friiieennnds :rofl:

and they will have deep meaningful conversations with their daughters hanging on their every word!!

and sort it all out at the dinner table just in time for the credits to roll.....

I don't spose having an 8 year old qualifies??
I doubt its hormones just yet, since there are no other signs, but one more comment about me not cleaning to HER standards (while her room is a brothel) & I'm gonna send her flying!!
I'm so glad she's not a teen yet, but I really don't think I'll be able to stand her at 13, let alone 15!

Clover, I saw the attitude starting up when DD was around the same age.
:hug: hugs to you...I guess you know it's no rosy road ahead :lol: but it's not forever.

At least, it better freakin not be!

Yeah, not forever.... just til they have kids... :lol:

Hi ladies, we have a positive....yay......Sarah has decided to stay at home next year. She still wants to leave school and work and do year 10 at tafe but with her at home we can make her iykwim. She has had a much more positive attitude lately too which has been a god send. I don't know how much more of the b!tchiness I could have taken. She has completed the Shine programme and has her formal for that today. We had to buy her a long dress and I reblonded her hair lol, bit of creativity regarding the shoes. I had a pair of silver ones that needed revamping so we bought some matching rhinestones and a hot glue gun and now they look like different shoes lol. I did her nails last night too. They do her hair and makeup and have a professional photographer there and then they go to a 5 star restaurant. She is going to look absolutely fantastic.

We also got her report for the half yearly and while she did badly in English, maths and science she got an outstanding for coming first in her class for computing (96%) and got a high for visual arts (77%). She was very shocked with her computing result as she doesn't like computing lol but her teacher won't put up with any crap so makes her work. I wish the others would follow his example.

Just wanted to let everyone know lol makes me feel good that she is slowly coming around.

Fantastic Kim! It's great to have good news, isn't it - and you really appreciate every little 'good' thing after you've been through a bit of rubbish.

Panda had a great report card this semester, and started her job the other day :dance: - now we just get to argue over who pays for what :rolleyes: