TTC after Stillbirth/ Recurrent Miscarriage or Loss after the First Trimester April

Big big hug coming to you Lynn :hug:

Ijust want to say how you are feeling is so very very usual. I truly understand. I am feeling very stressed out too - the losses, the pain of BFN's the stress of timing, follicle size, progesterone levels... It is bloody hard and what you are feeling is so painful.

Clomid kinda tricks your body (hopefully) into producing more fsh which in turn of course grows those follies and the increase in fsh also triggers a bigger progesterone response also. Clomid is a great drug for many women. The downsides are a lot of the hormonal symptoms, mood changes, flushes, sleeplessness etc. Clomid also can have the effect of thinning the endometrium. This is why women usually have u/sound when they take clomid. If the endometrium is not plump enough implantation is inhibited and of course pregnancy rates decrease. Another reason why clomid is usually only used for a maximum of 6 cycles. Clomid can also have a detrimental effect on some women's cervical mucous.

FSH is just that follicle stimulating hormone. So, it doesn't trick your body it directly stimulates it - it is a hormone. FSH is often touted to have less effect on mood, less flushes. It doesn't have the effect on the endometrium that clomid does either. It does have a higher risk of multiples than clomid simply because it is directly stimulating your ovaries to produce follies. This is of course weighted with the fact that you will have more frequent u/s on FSH than on clomid - this way the doseage can be adjusted so that you don't grow too many follies and thus decreasing the risk of multiples.

Why would your obs put you straight on fsh? There could be a few reasons - what comes straight to mind is that he is being very proactive. You want another baby yesterday. Clomid 100mgs may stimulate you enough but it may not. If it doesn't it's another month down. Clomid is used first as it is less costly in terms of the medication and the monitoring required. FSH does seem to be more efficient at stimulating ovulation in women who are not ovulating on clomid. IUI as you would know gives a higher conception rate than natural conception simply because the sperm are washed and only the 5 star babies are kept and put straight into your uterus - bypassing the whole cervix nightmare that can have those swimmers confused (they are men afterall!!!! :) - just joking I dont' really mean that!)
Overall conception rate using fsh iui is higher I believe.

Your progesterone level on clomid suggested no response from memory - I really think that your specialist is pulling the big guns early to give you the best chance. If you would rather try the 100mgs given that your endometrium is showing no ill effects you could ask for that for your next cycle and see what the response is - or you could discuss it with your specialist and get his gist on it.

I am so sorry you have been so upset today - those hormones are not helping any. I have been in a flurry today certain that I missed the surge and I have lost my chance this month. This is not rational and I know it but I have been in a bit of a way about it!

I guess if it was me Lynn I would be asking your specialist the questions you have but from my perspective what he is doing is a pretty proactive way to go if you are happy with that tack.
Another big hug Lynn and I hope that helped a little .... :hug:

Oh Lynn :hug: I really wish I could do something for you. Deb has replied in a way that has given me confidence in your OB (even though he is not mine, he seems like he knows what he is doing) and I hope she can give you that confidence as well. As you know I am not on the exact same journey as you in that I am Oing so I cant offer any help to re that, although with Deb around you dont need me. The only thing I can do is tell you that in my opinion your troubles with the TTC journey are contributing to your increased feelings of grief and hopelessness, along with the hormones as Deb pointed out. You already know what I have been going through as the months keep passing and I believe that my grief for Nicholas was definitely magnified greatly by all of the other stresses going on, and you also know the lengths I have had to go to to get that under control. I know how hard it is to remain positive, for me its basically impossible. After reading Debs post, I feel confident that once AF eventually shows up (:pray:) you will be on the right track and hopefully it can be the start of some good things coming your way because you definitely deserve them. I just wish I could do more, but unfortunately all I can do for you is support you and be there for you and let you know that, even though I am not on the meds you are on, I understand that feeling of you cant take anymore.

Take care of yourself,

Love Mel :hugs:

I agree with Mel Lynn about the feelings of grief. I am sure the stress of TTC adds to the grief which adds to the stress of TTC and so it goes. I know this is the case for me and it sounds like it may be for you too. We just have to keep the belief that we will get there little steps at a time. For you let's get that bleed happening and then those needles (if that's what you decide) and before we know it you will be cd8 and having an u/sound showing some follie activity beginning! YOU will get that Earth Baby it is just out there waiting... :hug:

Lynn: I just don't know what to say to make you feel better, I don't know if my words are good enough. I am not going to pretend what you feel like having the stress of TTC, but what I can say is that I think that grieving your struggle TTC is a natural reaction. It won't make you feel much better knowing it is natural, but it is hon.

You have had enough to deal with it, and by the sounds of it, every day is consumed with tests, medications, scans and hopes/fears. I think everything Deb said about why your FS is going straight to the injections makes a lot of sense, she knows much more about this than me that's for sure. Perhaps next time you see him you can ask him those questions just to confirm Deb's thoughts on the issues.

I am so sorry that you have been crying so much that you get a headache, is there anything I can do to help? If you want me to pop over after work tomorrow for a cuppa and a chat I can. Or if you want to have some Lynn Vent time on the weekend I am all yours. Even if you need to talk during work hours, you have my number so don't worry about calling me at work, nothing is more important to me then helping you get through this. Big warm :hugs: babe, hang in there sweetie.

Mel: About the OPK test and not telling DH, I think Deb is yet again right. It may be that our boys feel a bit of pressure when they know it is now or never. I know my DH hated OPKs and didn't want to know what I was up to. In his own words he said 'I am not your turkey baister' which I realised was his way of saying give me a break honey. That is him though, I am still not convinced he even knows what OPK's do (lol). I don't think that it is wrong to keep the testing to yourself, but I don't know your DH, if you think it is going to cause dramas with him, then I say honesty is the best policy. It is a hard one honey, but you will do what is right for you.

Tommysmum: You tell Bailey that if she doesn't come back I am going to come over there and kidnap her (lol) We miss her too much already :( Hope you get a better nights sleep tonight babe. Trust me, wild dreams during pregnancy are common. I have some of the most far out dreams, for example I got a tattoo on my back last night which was a to scale picture of a lion's head. Go figure, I don't have, nor do I want a tattoo, and the Lion thing, I don't get it.

Chelle: I am glad you are feeling a bit better today. How did the fence painting go? Did you get plenty of help? I hope so, make sure you and bub take it easy babe.

Klee: How are you doing babe? I hope today has been an ok day. You and your angel baby are always in my thoughts and my heart.

Big hugs to everyone else. I had a bit of a better day at work today. I am still worried that I can't feel movements yet. Thanks Deb for your advice about movements, I know it is the truth but to expect the worst is just my default mode at the moment. Get to see Lil Spring on Friday so that is good. I think we have decided on a name for Spring. We are thinking Oliver for a boy and Olivia for a girl, they both mean 'a symbol of peace" and go with the middle names (Michael or Mary due to family associations) we have picked and our last name. The initials will be OMG though, which is cute.

Anyway, I'll be around for a while longer.

Take care my gorgeous ladies.

Big love
Spring

Dear Jo

May your angels :angel: wings flutter up against the your face today and lay upon you a gentle kiss so you know that Storm is near.

Sweet angel Storm, you are never alone for a mother's love is not bound by time nor space.

Thinking of you today and always.

Love Spring and Harry.

Hey Spring,

Glad you had a better day today. Nice choice on the names, Olivia is my favourite girls name ever. If we both have girls and ever happen to meet up we will have to pick a nickname for one - mine can be Olly, I think that is so cute :D Oliver is a nice name too, and that is a nice meaning - I have researched Olivia when we chose it though and it gave me the meaning of olive tree.

Deb, Chelle, Tommysmum & Spring -Thanks re advice on OPKs. I think I will do it in secret cause I agree, it must add more pressure to them when you are basically saying OK perfooooorm... NOW! If I dont get pregnant he wont know anyway, and if I do there is no way he would get upset with me if I told him because he wants a baby as much as I do. Plus how could he get upset when I say I didnt tell you because I didnt want you to feel under pressure and I did what I thought was best for both of us. He is a pretty reasonable person, and also he doesnt ever stay mad at me very long.

I didnt see the post about lullaby conceptions until it was too late to order today though so I will just have to live with paying supermarket costs this month. The only bummer is I think you only get like 7 tests and if I test a 2-3 times a day over a few days I wont have enough. Maybe I should just test a couple of times on Saturday, then a couple of times on Sunday and again on Monday is I dont get a positive before. Seeing as Sunday is CD14 it may be wasting the tests to do one any earlier than Saturday - do you think?

Lynn - :hug:

Mel

LMAO - man I am dumb sometimes - it only just dawned on me "symbol of peace"... der, that would explain the saying "to extend the olive branch" :redface: Im really not dumb, just seem it sometimes LOL

Hey Mel

When you go to the supermarket to get the tests, see if they have instructions on the back about how many you should use in one day. You would presume that they would put enough in a pack for one month's worth of testing but I could be wrong.

From your previous cycles you seem to O almost like clockwork so I think if you are due to O on Monday, testing on Sat, and Sun is a good idea.

When I searched Oliver/Olivia, it comes up with An Olive tree or branch. A symbol of peace. so you are right. I love Olly as a nickname for either an Oliver or an Olivia, it is just soo cute.

Lv Spring

Mel: LMAO about the Olive branch thingy, this kid is going to end up being called Olive Oil if we are not careful (lol)

Olive Oil is still a cute nickname though, not that I would call a kid that but I used to love Popeye... Olivia is such a pretty name and the only Olivia's I have met have been really nice people and also quite pretty :) The only Oliver I know is my BILs nephew who seems to be like this child einstein, he is so smart! I putting my money on you growing an Oliver though so nicknames wont be necessary ;)

In saying all of this - I actually have to get UTD before I can even think about naming a child Olivia :wall:

Mel: you will get that magical BFP soon and you can name that child whatever you want, although I would expect some sideways glances for Olive Oil (lol)

Hey and don't presume too much, I think Olly is a great nickname for Oliver and Olivia but lets not get into semantics otherwise I am going to trip up and give away if there is a pink or a blue flavour in there (he he)

Anyway babe, time to do the dishes and crash for the night.

Take care and we will have to catch up and have a chat soon. Sometime this weekend would be great if you are free.

Lv Spring

LOL thats the idea... I am trying to trip you up ;) Oh well cant blame a girl for trying :p

Would love to have a chat and catch up this weekend, I am out on Saturday night but other than that I plan to bludge!

Cool, I would love to catch up. How 'bout I give you a call on Friday night.

Can't wait.

Nighty ni
Lv Spring

Yeah sounds great, I am working til 6 but should be home from 7.30 onwards. You can fill me in on your scan... by the way I was gonna say if you happen to get any piccies I would love to see them :)

Goodnight, sleep tight :bedtime:

BTW too funny about the lions head tattoo dream :lol:

Mel,
When you go to the Supermarket try to steer cleaar of fortel - I found they didn't for tell anything!
If it were me I would phone Lullaby today and get some opk's as well. That way you can test away to your hearts content. I know you want to start today so do the supermarket thing but for the equivalent money at the Supermarket you will get about 20 tests at Lullaby and usually the supermarket tests have 5 in a box.
I have everything crossed for a positive opk for us both!

Lynn: How are you my love???? Come in and let us know how you are - I am thinking of you.... :hug:

Everyone else I will pop back later.... :hug:

Lynn are you out there????? Thinking of you and sending you a big hug.... :hug:

Sorry Deb - I am here. Thank you so much for the information you have given me and for checking on me. Everything you said, does make sense and I'm glad that FS is taking a positive approach.

I'm ok. I guess I just had a lot that I needed to get off my chest yesterday and while I feel the same way today, I am trying to be positive. I am just frustrated firstly of not being pregnant yet but also that my body isn't even ovulating. It is also frustrating that body has not responded to Clomid and now that AF won't arrive. It is exactly what you and Mel said - it is a cycle where I seem to be stressed about everything and it just goes around and around - grieving for Cooper, frustrated at not being able to conceive and other things that happen around me. I am trying to not think about things that are out of my control and just concentrate on myself. I decided that I think I need to be seeing a counsellor again so I spoke with someone at SIDS yesterday at length and they have suggested that I go to the Stillbirth Support Group next Wednesday and then make an appointment to see a counsellor. I want to be able to talk to a counsellor that has had a Stillbirth so they understand what I am feeling. That is why I stopped counselling last time because I just thought that she didn't get me.

I went to acupuncture this morning and asked him to 'sort me out'. Let's hope he can. Just to top everything off, I have an ingrown toenail and it is so painful. Talk about kicking me while I'm already down. Anyway I am seeing a podiatrist this afternoon to see if he can fix it.

I am also stressed about the holiday that we booked for next week. When I was booking it, it didn't feel right and now I wish we weren't going but DH is keen to go because we are going to see his brother. :dunno: It is just frustrating as we can go and visit them any time but I can't leave this for another month. Why do I make life harder!!!! :wall:

I spoke with the clinic this morning and told them that AF hasn't arrived so I am going for a BT tomorrow morning to see what is going on. I also told them about the holiday and they said that I can have BT and u/s done on the gold coast but I will need to be here on CD4 to pick up everything and for them to show me how to inject. They said to just wait and see when AF arrives and then we can sort it out.

Thank you for the hug - I needed it.

How are you going? Did you miss your surge? I hope not :hugs:

You did some really positive stuff yesterday Lynn so good on YOU!!!! I understand about needing to talk with someone who has journeyed in a similar way - it's true that some find it really hard to "get it" but fall famously short. What you have done in seeking out someone to debrief with is a really positive way to deal with all you are feeling.

It's great about the blood test tomorrow - that will give you an idea of what the go is with your period. It's great that you can have your monitoring done while you are on holidays - it's all going to work out Lynn it really is!

I am going okay - I have lots of abdominal discomfort and my belly is quite puffy. The obs feels certain I didn't miss the surge and I concede a fairly unhealthy dose of paranoia sets in with me on Clomid.... arggghhhhh!!!!!!! Anyway my follies were sitting pretty on Tuesday and we dtd that night and last night so if I ovulated I have the bases covered! ;). I haven't had a positive opk today and just now I have arrived back from town to pick up my parcel from the gorgeous Jodi at Lullaby (thanks Jodi :hug:) so I will be testing again at 2pm. My obs is on holidays but she has recently set up a fertility clinic (ivf etc) with another 2 obs on the Sunshine Coast - so that is where I went for my u/sound on Tuesday and where I will go again tomorrow if I don't surge today. The plan is to give me a trigger shot tomorrow if I don't surge on my own. I hope I surge on my own but if not it looks like it's all systems go tomorrow. Then the paranoia sets in... What if the follies have shrunk, disappeared, multiplied by too many..... ARggghhhhh this is a tough trip sometimes hey????
I am off for now - the kiddies are getting a treat for lunch - party pies!!!! We are usually an organic food house but they wanted a treat and it's a cold wet day here so we are gonna hit the sauce bottle!!!!

I'll pop back later and another big :hug: to you my love... Just know that there are lots of us in here barracking for you and sending you lots of love.... :hug:

Hi ladies, I do feel like I am intruding but really I wanted to ask some advice from Flowerchild if that's okay.

I feel really silly asking as it may sound half panicky/half clutching at straws but I hope you'll understand.

I have four boys, all conceived easily with fairly trouble free pregnancies. But I have had two missed miscarriages - one was at 16 weeks (but baby dated at 12w3d) and then again at 14 weeks (but baby dated at 11w5d). I am not young (42) and I am worried about what I have read about antiphospholipid (sp??) syndrome.

Basically, I have read that it develops when you get older and can cause recurrent miscarriage and fetal death. I am now worried that I may have this as my pregnancies in 2005 and 2006 were fine. Would this have shown up in my BT that was ordered before my D&C?? Do you think I should ask to be checked out for it?? Do I fit the 'criteria'??

I'm so sorry to sound panicky but I can't understand how I can carry 4 children and then miscarry twice in 8 months at 3 1/2 - 4 months.

Please can you let me have any info you have or tell me whether I am being silly and trying to 'catagorise' something that may just be bad luck.

Thanks loads and sorry again

Alex
xxx

Thank you so much Deb. Your guidance, support and knowledge is so appreciated. You really are a remarkable woman. When, I say when I get this baby, it will know all about Aunty Deb! Because when I finally get this baby, it will be because of all the help I have received from you (and all of your girls :grouphug: )

It certainly is a rough trip. But I am glad that I am able to share the ride with someone who can support me. I hope I can support you too.

Good luck with the scan tomorrow. I hope those follies are looking as big and beautiful as ever. I know the feeling of have they shrunk or disappeared, but I know that yours will be there ready and waiting to burst!

After talking with Nat today I have decided that I am going to start yoga. I need to do everything possible to help me on this journey and I think that yoga will help me to relax and not stress as much. So I am going up to the gym this afternoon to talk to them - thanks Nat!

thanks again Deb :hug:

Hi Alex,
Never feel like you are intruding - this thread is for any woman who can be supported or who can support the journey that so many of us are on... :hug:

I have *seen* you around and when I saw your signature I wanted to ask if you had had some testing but thought it better to wait.

Here is a link to some research that I collated. You may find some of it helpful - I hope so.

I believe that there are causes for recurrent fetal loss that have not yet been found - or more accurately perhaps that we don't have names for.

You will find in the link my explaination for APS. I believe, that APS can be pregnancy induced - so until you are pregnant your bloods may not show that you have APS. This belief is shared by some professionals and poo pooed by others - I remain steadfast in my belief! My bloods in a non pregnant state just scrape it in as "normal". Only just, which lead the more astute doctors to believe that something just may be going on. I have never been tested whilst pregnant. I also have a history that indicates some type of autoimmune condition. Having said that they were things I truly overlooked until I said "enough" and I am going to find a reason. APS also has flare ups and can remain dormant.

There is ALWAYS a reason. Did you have chromosomal testing done on your babies? Were your babies little girls or little boys?

I will give you a little brief insight into me and that may help you to look differently at YOU. When I was about 15 I developed swollen joints, low grade temp and a butterfly rash on my torso. I tested negative for RRV and Dengue Fever (I lived in tropical North Qld Aust). However all bloods showed I was in an inflammatory state. I gradually recovered and never thought about it again. Since then intermittently (maybe 4-6 times a year) I get a rash over my abdo and or chest that comes suddenly and then disappears. The last time I had it was the week I lost my last baby. These things show some type of autoimmune condition. Often autoimmune conditions lay dormant - they always need a trigger. You are right about APS and age - age being a trigger to the illness - perhaps age and pregnancy (due to the hormonal response pregnancy is often a trigger for autoimmune conditions - think diabetes etc)

You may get tested and your bloods are all clear - ask for copies of the results - have a look at the levels. Get a consult with an obs that is trained in immunology. I am sure you will have someone in NZ. If not you can contact me and I can give you the name of a guy in Australia who is great and he will do phone consultations. I always cringe when I hear women say I was tested and it's all clear. There is much we don't know - Lupus (another autoimmune disease) wasn't testable until the early 80's. Maybe you have something that hasn't got a name yet.

The good news is that APS is treatable in pregnancy with good outcomes. Of course there is no guarantees but as a gorgeous doctor said to me a few months ago.."without drugs it is almost a given that you won't take home a baby". Asprin, prednisone and clexane are used. Some doctors use only the clexane and others will be happy to go "the whole hog". I am 39 and with 3 mid trimester losses I am not prepared to risk any more. I have the "whole hog" on board. The prednisone has caused a lot of weight gain and moodiness too I think. It's worth it to hold that precious baby/ies that I know are out there for me.

If I can help in any other way, help with info, contacts, please let me know. What I do ask is to PLEASE get some more bloods done and PLEASE seek out a specialist for a consult. :hug:

Oh Flower, thank you so much for this, it is excellent - I will go through it with a fine-tooth comb!!!

I have just come back from having my NZ Immigration medical with my GP and he was FABULOUS - I told him all my worries and what I had read and how it was scaring the pants off me, etc,etc. He basically said, 'let's get the NZIS stuff out the way and then start testing and investigating' AND he mentioned an Immunology guy in Wellington. Very very supportive at this stage, I was seriously impressed as this is NOT what I am used to with UK antenatal care!!

I'll read up on all the stuff you have linked me into and really get my act together - the only other thing that makes sense is that I do sometimes suffer from a rash across my tummy/rib cage (a bit like a sweat rash/allergic reaction) - I don't know what butterfly rash would look like but mine is little tiny pimples of varying redness, sometimes with a white pimple if I scratched it and it gets icky. The only time this has been commented on in the UK is to rule out OC (obstetric cholestasis) and I didn't really fit the symptoms of that (itching soles of the feet, etc) - they put it down sweating/sleeping on my stomach/hormones or all of the above!!

I didn't have any chromosonal testing on the babies nor do I know whether they were girls or boys - I have only got boys and at one point I was convinced I was killing baby girls and that was why I was m/c ing (we had been trying the Shettles timing stuff hoping for pink!! It was only a bit of fun as my husband is one of 5 boys and we would be quite happy with another boy!!) but i was convinced I couldn't carry girls.

I WILL follow this through, especially as we are TTC after AF shows her ugly red face - at least my cycle is pretty easy to follow and I know I ovulate spot on 13 days and that my Luteal Phase doesn't change, etc, etc.

I'll keep you posted as to progress and whether I feel I am being fobbed off, thank you so much for this, even it turns out to be nothing, it will ease my worries and stress (I was going to take low-dose asprin myself but wasn't sure if it was dangerous if not prescribed!!) - I just don't feel it can be 'bad luck' although I am happy to be proved wrong.

Like you said, we desperately want another bubs (blue OR pink) and I am not taking a chance now without checking this out - sorry for the waffle but I feel really motivated now, especially after being taken seriously by my GP.

Thanks again
Love to all in this thread, I will keep in touch

It is wonderful that you have found such a supportive GP - what a great start AND that he mentioned an immunologist woo hoo!!!!!

It would be lovely if you feel you could join our thread - I hope your journey to TTC that next little soul is short and sweet. :hug:

Good morning everyone.
Thinking of you today Spring as you have your u/sound...

Lynn: Today is bloods day for you - I am assuming your results will be through in the afternoon. I am thinking of you - and hoping that they tell you that that period is right on your doorstep. Yay about the yoga. I do yoga and meditation and find it immensley beneficial - I hope you do too. :hug:

Mel: What did you decide with those opk's???

Nat, Heybacko, Jo, Chelle - how are things? I will come back in this afternoon for a chat.

Well no positive opk for me yet - my Lullaby one yesterday was darker but certainly not a positive... I had to test again this morning and bfn so my u/sound is at 9.30am. I am feeling a bit stressed.... What if there are too many follies and they won't trigger me, what if they have disappeared... What if..... Then I tell myself to be zen and that it's all okay.... In between hot flushes that is!!! The pelvic congestion is quite marked today - even in my back so something must be happening in "ovary land".

Wish me luck and I will be back in the afternoon after our sojourn to the coast! :hug:

Hey Deb - wishing you all the best with your scan today. I know you have a lot of 'what ifs' but I'm sure those follies are there, nice and big, and just waiting for a little help to burst! You have probably already left to go to the coast so you won't get to read this before you leave, but just know that I am thinking of you. I hope you have a lovely day out. Take care and would love to hear how you went when you get back. :hug:

luv&hugs
Lynn
xxxxxxxxxxx

Flowerchild - good luck with your scan - i hope ovary land is behaving (and your tummy settles) for you. Will be thinking of you and sending positive vibes your way.

Lynn - hope you are feeling better and taking it easier. The SIDS and KIDS meeting sounds good - i will be there (that is if you are going to the Rozelle meeting) on Wednesday. I don't think there will be that many people there (a few people are away) but there will still be enough to have a good talk.

Spring - good luck with your u/s today - very exciting to see little spring there again.


On Wednesday two people implied that i was pregnant (well they weren't wrong but i didn't think you could tell yet). The first was some old fart trying to sell me sausages at some markets...he said "good for the baby - boy or girl ?" - i said "sorry ??" he repeated what he had just said "i said NO there is no baby"...forgetting that i was only just pregnant and remembering that my belly is there from Tommy "so matey i have just had a f*** stillborn - how is that for an answer". LOL. My mum was there with me and she doesn't know yet (not going to tell for a while).

Then i get home and our tradesmans (he is installing our kitchen) wife was there and put her hand on my tummy and said "are you pregnant". I nearly said yes but then said oh no, it is still my belly from Tommy. She said oh you looked different last time i saw you. I actually think it was the dress i was wearing..it has a seam under your boobs and then is flowing so you can hide anything (well i thought you could) under there. It does make your boobs puffy though....so i can see why these people said something,

To top it off - i told DH what happened that day - and he just said "oh yeh, you look so fat in that dress" !:rolleyes: Geez the compliments were flowing that day :dance:

Hope everyone is well and are having a good day.

OMG!! How rude can people be. I am so sorry that you had to go through that Tommysmum. Why do people think it is ok to touch your belly anyway (pregnant or not!!!). I think you should have told them about Tommy that might stop them from doing it to someone else. But then again you do have protect your privacy. I know the type of top you are talking about. Last year when I was pregnant that style was everywhere. I didn't buy many maternity clothes because I could just buy this style - tight under the bust and then just flowing. Although they are not maternity I still can't wear any of them now because I wore them when I was pregnant...................but I will wear them soon :pray: Yes I am going to the group at Rozelle on Wednesday morning. That is great that you are going to be there. Will Bailey be back? Well you will know which one is me - I will be the new girl!!! and probably sitting in the corner rocking! LOL

Well I had my BT this morning and once again was told I have horrible veins! Nice! I drank a 600ml bottle and that still didn't help. They have told me that I need to drink a lot more. So at the third attempt she got some blood. The pin cushion is back! I will have the results late this afternoon so hopefully it is someone good...........I'm staying positive.

Spring - good luck at your dr appointment. Say hi to lil' Spring for me. Let us know how you went.

I hope everyone has a good day

Sorry about those veins Lynn - know I am here waiting for news of your results - I hope it is wonderful and that period shows later today... :hug:

Tommysmum: Wow it's hard isn't it when people say really out there things. I am sorry... :hug:

Spring: How was the u/s???? Thinking of you...

Me: Well I had my follie u/s - woo hoooo eeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still have three fat juicy ready to burst follicles. The nurse said that my endometrium was perfect and she had never seen such a fine one on a woman of my age.... :cryinglaugh:
She said that when the endometrium is so healthy it usually follows that the eggs are too so she said it's all lookin' good for this month!
I had a fourth follie at 16mms so the decision was made to trigger me to prevent that fourth one maturing. So, I will ovulate within 36 hours. I must say I feel terrible. My belly is swollen and I am aching far into my back. Anyway all for a good cause. My gorgeous obs who is on holidays even took the time to email me to say go ahead with month as it's unlikely to be triplets. I just may have to hold her to that!

I will pop back in later - I need to eat!

:happyforyou: Deb that is fantastic news. It must have been so exciting to see those 3 nice and big follies. You are going to have a busy weekend aren't you! We don't want to see you in here ok ;) So it is unlikely for triplets but what about twins???? Your endometrium sounds excellent and that is great news that it means the eggies will be good too. This month looks like it is yours for sure!!!! How exciting.

I needed some exciting news today!

Well after my breakdown I think I am ready to post. Sorry this could be a bit disjointed................

I got the phone call from the clinic and was told that AF is at least a week or two away. :confused: I said WTF (well not in those words, I was polite). I told the nurse that I had taken Provera last week and that my FS told me I should have a period within a week. Now you are telling me it is a week or two away - I don't get it. She said that Provera works for some people and not others. Ha of course it didn't work for me...........nothing ever does!!!!!!!!! She said based on my levels that is what it is showing. I said what levels. She said Progesterone. Well we all know what high progesterone means????????????????????? Ovulation!!!! I said are you telling me that I ovulated this month? And she said yes. AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :angry: I said how is that possible. I had a scan and was told I had 2 really good follies, a week later I'm told there is nothing there and then 4 days later (last Tuesday) my FS did a scan and confirmed that there were no follies and that I won't ovulate this month. WTF is going on!! I said that I wanted to speak directly with my FS but he wasn't in and I can't get an appointment with him next week so they are going to get him to call me next Tuesday. I said to the lady, what does the ovulation mean. I mean what if we happened to DTD around ovulation time. She said that they checked my bloods for pg and I'm not. I said could I have got pg from this ovulation with it being so late. She said that it probably wouldn't have been a good egg to fall pg on. I just don't know what is going on anymore. I feel like I have lost all faith in what they are telling me and doing. Does any of this sound right. The thing that annoys me is that different nurses call with the info and I can never speak to my FS. It would be so much easier if I spoke to him. :wall:

Well one thing is for sure - this month is not for me and neither is having a baby in 2007 :crying: Stupid golden pig!

Lynn :hugs:
I don't really understand what is going on my love. Okay - you had 2 follies on u/s and then you went back and there was none??? What cycle day did you have the 2 follies?
What cycle day did you have a repeat u/s and told there were none?
What level was your progesterone today?

Lynn, I agree it's really not good enough that you don't get to interact with your doctor. You are paying this guy some good money - you are the consumer and you are not getting a service that satisfies you.
Okay so you have a few options - you can change doctors - remembering when making your decision that this is a journey and you want the journey to be as stressfree and user friendly as possible. Ask yourself if this guy is that.

You can continue on with this person after really highlighting how this treatment is making you feel. In my opinion he is not giving you enough info about the process nor is he availing himself to you to answer questions. That disturbs me.

It seems to me they have made a blue. I would challenge that's why they did a bhcg today - they had given provera to a woman who had ovulated and potentially could have fallen pregnant. I think you need to ask some very direct questions.

I hope I haven't been too forthright - I just think from what you have said that you have been treated shoddily. There are plenty of specialists out there and many who will be kind, nurturing and freee with information.

If you can ask what that progestrone was my love. Big hugs to you and I am really sorry that this has happened. :hug:

Deb,

I had an u/s on CD15 and was told: prog - 2.2, est - 198, LH - 11.1. I was also told that I had follies - left 11.3 and 9.8, right 16, 14.5 and 9. I was told that the 9 and 9.8 would probably do nothing but the other 3 would.

I then had an u/s on CD22 and there were no follies at all. Both of these u/s were done by the nurses (2 different ones). I made an appointment with my FS and saw him on CD26 and he did an u/s and confirmed that there were no follies. He said that what was seen on CD15 could have been cysts left over from my last cycle or new follies but my hormone levels weren't high enough to support them. He told me when I saw him that because there were no follies that I would not ovulate this month so he prescribe Provera so that a period would come and I could concentrate on next cycle.

Is it true that you shouldn't fall pg on eggs that are very late? I am CD36 today.

My levels today are est - 370, prog - 24, LH - 9.3, pg - neg

It's debateable LYnn - I know that some people believe that later ovulation means poorer quality eggs - however I have always been a late ovulator. Evidence based information doesn't tell us that later ovulation leads to poorer outcomes. I have discussed this with a number of fertility guys and no one has said that. However, I do know that some do subscribe to this belief.

However it's possible and probable that you did't ovulate late. Follies grow at a rate of about 2mm in a 24 hour period. So your cd15 16mm follie would have been 18mm by about cd16-17 a ripe follicle. In IVF a harvest is done when follies reach about 18mm - it is seen as mature. So by cd22 I wouldn't expect to see any follies as you likely ovulated around cd18. The nurse should be able to differentiate a cyst and a follie - they can look alike but they can usually be defined. Today's progesterone at 24 does indicate that ovulation occured but I am wondering what it would have been had it been done around cd 25-26.

Did you have any hormone levels done at your cd26 visit?

It's confusing Lynn I agree. It's true that in some women clomid does grow cysts and perhaps this is what happened to you. It's hard to tell. However, clearly you did ovulate at some stage. Howevaer if you ovulated 7 days ago a level of 24 on clomid isn't a good response - however, if you ovulated on cd18 the level of 24 could indicate that your progesterone is on the decrease due to impending menstruation. I don't know I am just throwing this out there.

I fear I have only confused you more - please send a "please explain" if I have or tell me to keep quiet if I am saying too much...

Thanks Deb. I appreciate everything that you have said (I always do). It is good to get an opinion from people that have been through it before. I guess as this is the first time I have ever been monitored I don't really know what I am doing and I guess that is why I am relying on the professionals to get it right. I don't know about ovulating on CD18 though because my levels at CD18 were est - 242, prog - 3.1 and LH 10.4. On CD20 they were est - 202, prog - 2.6 and LH 14.4. I forgot to ask for my levels at CD22 and CD26 because I was more concerned about where my follies had gone! I just tried to ring the clinic but they have left. I will try again on Monday.

My FS is through IVF Australia so you would think that he has done done this a million times. He came highly recommended and he is a specialist in PCOS and getting woman pg. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I will be discussing all my concerns with him on Tuesday when I speak to him. I will also mention that it is hard to understand what is going on when I can't talk to him. I understand that he is busy and has other patients but I don't want to feel like a number. I want to feel like he cares. I wish my ob was a FS, he is so caring and gives me hugs and I need one of his hugs right now :cry:

Lynn, I am lost for words. I agree with Deb, your treatment has been shoddy at best. Fair enough the body can be unpredictable and do things that are unexpected, but it is so important that you get continuity of care and don't get passed around to whoever is on phone duty. I would demand that you are only spoken to by the FS, if he is too busy, fair enough, but he must be honest with you that he isn't able to provide the standard of care that you require and that you deserve. I would then start looking elsewhere.

I am a big believer in trusting your instincts, so you will know deep down what is the right thing to do. Irrespective of whether he comes highly recommended, he is not living up to his reputation and you shouldn't feel worried about offending him if you decide to move on. You deserve only the best care and I think that it should be a holistic approach, taking care of the mind is just as important, if not more important than taking care of the body. :hugs:

Deb: It is such nice news to hear that you got your trigger shot :dance:. I am sorry you have such discomfort, but as you said, who really cares if it means that you are about to O. You seem so intouch with your body and how it works. I admire that. Thank you for giving Lynn so much help and information today. I just don't know much about the whole process, but it is great that you are such a fantastic support to Lynn and all of us with both the medical stuff but also the emotional stuff.

Tommysmum: Next time someone takes it upon themselves to touch your belly uninvited, touch theirs back. See how they like it. In my opinion, just because you are UTD doesn't give people a free pass to disrespect your personal space. I bet you look just beautiful in your top :woman:

Well my crazy lady scan went really well. I had a big talk to the Ob about my experience at the Ultrasound place like asking me what happened to Harry twice and asking how long I breastfeed after I had just told them he was stillborn. Also the fact that they had a new machine and didn't seem competent on it. Well I trusted my instincts and asked that I get a referral to another specialist. I called my specialist in Brissy who was with us the whole way with Harry and he gave me some names in Sydney. He has also offerred to review the 19 week scan if I send him the DVD. My Ob was happy to give me the referral and now I feel better. My BP at the start of the appointment was 150/70 and when I left it was 130/70. Lil' Spring is measuring perfectly and HB was about 150 so I feel good. He has also referred me to a lactation consultant. I have still go a blocked milk duct in my areola and he said he want's to make sure it won't impact my ability to breastfeed. Apparently I can start doing massages and the like to get the blockage to move along. Sounds painful but I'll do whatever it takes. He is such a good doctor, I feel like giving him a big cuddle but I think he would commit me ;)

About to organise some grub and then I have a phone date with Mel. I'll pop on later to see how my girls are.

big love
Spring

Hi everyone

I must admit to feeling a little out of place in this thead as although my losses have been sort of late, I can't pretend to begin to understand the pain and devastation that a stillbirth must give. I have read posts with tears just flowing and I can't believe you are able to offer the most incredible support to others - so strong.

I would, however, like to add to the trecent thread posts by saying:
(and I have come from 10 years UK NHS middle management (non-clinical) experience)

Lynn - def. a lot less than acceptable patient care, pretty bad show, and I think (sod his reputation) look elsewhere for someone who makes you feel taken care of.

Flower/Deb: you are now my bible and personal mentor - 'nuff said!

Tommysmum; In situations that you have just faced, I would have punched people - I may be English but I DO NOT have English reserve!!!! How did you hold yourself back so well????

Spring: Ditto the punching re. the ultrasound place - but sounds like you have harnessed some quality OB care in Sydney

I am waiting to submit our NZ(Oz was deined too hot for DH!!) Residency application (ie medical hoops to jump through on paper) and then my GP is going to start testing & investigating for possible APS (thanks to Flowers superb posts) so I will dip in when I can

Much love and best wishes to all
Alex
xxxx

Oh Lynn - :hug:

I hadnt been on BB today so didnt realise what was going on but Spring explained to me what happened and I just feel awful for you. I just cant understand how someone could F*** UP so badly!!!! I agree with the other girls that your FS should be making himself available to right now, I mean they stuffed up - plain and simple - he should be "explaining" to you what has gone wrong and making the effort to put things right. It is totally not good enough that you have to wait until Tuesday to get some answers. Definitely give him the third degree, I cannot believe they gave you that pill without knowing 100% you had not ovulated!!!! I dont really know what else to say because I am absolutely dumbfounded that this has happened, and I am really :angry: that they are making you go through this, you already have enough on your plate at the moment and I wish you didnt have to go through even more S***!

Again, I am so sorry for everything. Love and :hugs: to you.

Mel

Hi to everyone else,

Spring - Was really nice talking to you tonight. I am so glad that lil Spring was bouncing around in there at your scan. I hope you have a good night sleep with no weird dreams ;)

Deb - That is wonderful news about your follies and that you got jabbed into action. We are all expecting not to see you around too much over the weekend, you have better things to do :p

Alex - Dont feel out of place here in this thread, we are nice gals and welcome anyone who feels they need to be here. I am sorry for the loss of your angels :hug: Good luck with your NZ residency application, and I hope your GP can find some answers for you.

Tommysmum - Nice one DH! Men lack so much tact done they? People do say insensitive things, and unfortunately we all just cop it on the chin so as not to make the situation uncomfortable. Why is that we have the decency to do that but other dont? Afterall we are the ones hurting! Hope you feel a little better tonight. People need to start worrying more about whether we are ok and forget about themselves - just the way we do for them!

Bailey - Hope you are having a great holiday, sunbaking, partying, playing with DS... cant wait to hear all about it.

(Deb, meant to say...) I didnt end up getting OPKs from lullaby cause I didnt read your post until last night and figured I wouldnt get them... luckily I went to supermarket tonight and got First Response (7 OPK & 1 HPT) for $10.99 on sale - bargain huh! DH doesnt know I bought them, its a long story but I managed to sneak them in after hiding them in the letterbox for half an hour LOL. So anyway I tested and got a positive. I spoke to my "sexual councellor" Spring and have decided that I will skip DTD tonight to leave a night in between (for DHs swimmers to regenerate, sorry I know TMI) and go for it tomorrow and Sunday and maybe again on Tues to be safe, and I think we will have covered all bases. I think it is the best we can do, I hope we succeed but I am gonna try not to stress too much. Besides Lynn and I have a plan to fall at the same time so...

On a slightly sad note, when we got home last night another one of our Budgies - Charlie - had died :( It is a little sad but he really wasnt very well, he has been deteriorating for a while and over the weekend really went downhill, so now he is at peace and with Kenny in budgie heaven.

Oh well, guess I should go to bed I turn into a pumpkin in exactly 1 minute.

Goodnight, Mel

Morning ladies - rise and shine....

Spring - glad to hear that lil spring is doing just fine - you must be so excited (and i know we are all excited for you) but it just amazes me that people ask how long you breastfeed for after a stillborn...what planet are these people on ??? :rolleyes:

Flowerchild - Again, wonderful news for you - have a "nice" weekend and go hard girl - or perhaps that should be directed at your partner !!! :clap:

Lynn - i am so sorry to hear about your news -WTF is going on with these people. When you finally speak to your FS i would demand that you get ALL answers from him directly from now on - make sure you stress your concerns on all the different answers/options you have been given and that you are paying top dollar for his services (so you want HIS services).:hug: Something positive has to come out of all of this....:pray: i just know it will.

Will be good to meet you on Wednesday - i also go by the name of "Monica" so you will know who i am. Alternatively i could just wear my "fat dress" and you will know straight away who i am....but i don't think i will (might give over people ideas and it is way too early to tell people that i am pg). Bailey won't be there - still away (have news on Bailey below)...

Mel - well looks like you too will be busy this weekend. Good luck and have fun ! Very good news to hear and i do think that you and Lynn will be pg at the same time.... Also, sorry to hear about Charlie and Kenny - at least they are together in budgie heaven....

Alex - hope all is going well with you and hope to talk more soon. Sorry about the loss of your angels - we are all here to help each other and jump in any time (i did). No worries about people making comments - really i don't care (i actually find it funny sometimes) - you have to have a sense of humour even if the joke is about you ! I can take it really.

Heard from Bailey last night via text. She is day 38, no AF and ab cramps - HELLO - what is this telling you !!!! I said get a "f*** test done NOW !" I also said she should stop right now taking the drugs, smokes and alcohol she is shoving into her whilst on hols....LOL

Enough from me - got to feed the little rascal.