So I'm probably being demoted today for being pg...

make notes, including writing down direct quotes, dates, times ... breathe ... vent privately as needed.

:hug:

Thanks :redface:. I had hoped maybe I could show others that its necessary to stand up, I just feel shy I guess for doing it. I want everyone to know what they did wrong, but not sure if I want it all over the media (as satisfying as that would be I admit, especially if I come out on top), as one reason why we moved here is to fly under the radar.

Did ask why my predessor left, and was told (by I think a reliable staff member) that "she was asked to leave", and she was there for ten years, under the same title as i had signed for! (Conference &Events Sales & Marketing Manager) No such thing as being demoted for being pregnant! And i also asked where she went to work after leaving. She was asked to leave because two of the other staff didn't like her (one of whom left 1 week after i arrived, the other does the pays, is only there 2 or 3 days per week and put her hand up to do my job. Even though in writing the CEO said my job is no longer existent), and she didn't get along with the CEO.

It sounds a bit like they have a track record for shafting their employees. How is it that they've been allowed to get away with it? I admire you for sticking to your guns! Well done! Do what u believe is right & best!

good on you for doing the right thing! it would have taken alot of balls to do that, and still be working there!!!

here's hoping everything turns out to be in your favour! :)

I"m so sorry I missed this until now!
You've got Fairwork on the go, I'd also give the Equal Opportunity Commission a call - take notes and use them against your employer.
I will also suggest you never have a meeting with your boss alone. You are well within your rights to postpone any meeting until you have someone arranged to come in with you. That person is allowed to speak either for you or with you and put questions to your boss. It's a fallacy that a witness is not allowed to say anything. The witness can say to you they think the meeting should stop so that you can convene and discuss what's gone down in the conversation to that point.
Nowhere does it say you can get rid of someone because you don't like them. You weren't hired to be a best mate, you're hired for operational reasons and you use your people skills to negotiate and function with the other people around you.
I took an employer to the EOC and got WorkSafe involved because he was discriminating against me - for both being a union delegate, being an older employee and for being the OHS representative. It was a cinema and he'd managed to sack his other staff that were around my age, but he was wary of cutting me out because of the role I had - he took a bit more notice when I wrote him a letter advising him of my election as OHS rep. He'd entertained the election, thinking his young staff were 'playing grown up games', until he got my rather officious letter. The idiot told his young manager not to give me shifts because I cost more, due to being over 18. The clueless manager then told me about that directive, not realising she'd dumped him right in it.
This employer (who only owned the business, he wasn't a manager by title) had a history of shafting people and for being a complete narcissist. He did not take kindly to me taking official avenues and bringing him to the attention of the safety watchdog, let alone the EOC. I had the back up of a union at the time, but I didn't really need them.
I had one of the younger staff members ask me "Why are you fighting this? Why would you want to stay in this job when he doesn't like you?", so I told him that work isn't for being liked, it's not what I was hired for and it was about being civil to people, which I had remained, the whole way through.
I got a small payout, through mediation, but I had to sign confidentiality - which means I just can't mention his name and attach it to the phrase "he's an a-hole" ;)
Go hard, Netix - you've got plenty to go on xxx

Thanks everyone for the support. I need it. I just my email, there OS a reply from the CEO to the fwa complaint. He lists a whole list of reasons why things were done the way they were, and that nothing wrong has been done, it was all out of compassion for me being pregnant, etc. Now i feel very unhappy, and feel like i can't win this. If possible I will type out later.

The CEO did not speak to me AT ALL today. I was in the back receptionist office filing bookings when he walked in. He looked through the pigeon holes, and I said "hi Paul", in a nice, clear, audible voice. He ignored me entirely.

I offered to fill in a shift for tomorrow night, but that was turned down. Usually they let me. They reckon that the new manager decided that he would do the shift.

Unhappiness.

i have been following your thread & wanted to offer some more support! there is no question that you have been treated unfairly & to do things out of compassion is just a bunch of bollocks. you didn't ask for their so-called compassion!

got to run but stick to your guns (i know that's easy for me to say) and be proud that you've stood up to them. don't let them bully you or making you feel like you can't win :hug:

They are masters at this Netix. You are being the adult here. Don't let them make you feel small and worthless because you aren't. :hug: Naturally they are going to defend their position but they have not done the right thing by you and what they are doing is discriminatory. So stick to your guns.

I'm pretty sure its only "compassion" if you agree to the terms or request them. NOT giving you the option of in a sense demoting you is not showing tolerance or understanding for your pregnancy.

Did you forward you notes from the initial meeting to fairwork as well?

I just found this thread, I went through something similar when I was pregnant and I would suggest contacting the equal opportunities commission as well. My case was handled by fairwork and the EOC and they had such good advice for me.

Feel free to pm me if you would like any info

I intend on sticking to my guns so much that I might need to get a pair tattooed onto my hips! Yes, I am being the adult here aren't i? I didn't expect that they would roll over or say nothing. I think its just hit me how much work I'm up for now.

Eta, thanks little o and meercat. No, I didn't forward my notes, but i kept them.

Your employer cannot decide on your behalf what you are and are not capable of doing - they are not medical practitioners or midwives, so it is not their call to make. Their only obligation in regards your pregnancy is to listen to YOU about what YOU say you are capable of, and failing that, what a medical certificate says you are capable of. It is not their decision to make and 'compassion' is so laughable. If they were so compassionate they would have discussed keeping you on the same money so as not to create financial stress on you while you are pregnant. Compassion my arse.
They are sulking now, because you've taken it further, and most people just pull their heads back into their shells, hoping not to get their heads lopped off.
If you're going down, you're going down loud - make a noise about it, because you may as well from here on in. Give them a headache, make them spend money on legal advice, it's very satisfying ;)
I hate power trips and people who think laws don't apply to them and their profit margins.

I didn't think you could just change someone from permanent to casual? Not in my industry as far as I am aware - there has always been discussion that we don't put people onto permanent until they've completed a trial period on casual to our satisfaction- as if they don't work out, it is so very hard to do anything to (for want of better terminology) get rid of them - must be 3 written warnings to justify so I can't see how they can just change you to casual overnight.

Stick to those guns chick!

No soonee had I clocked on today than I was told the ceo wanted to see me, and he, I, and the new ceo (silent witness I huess) had a meeting. In brief (because I am so tired and depressed), I got TWO written warnings for my attitudes towards staff and guests. :o

Surprised much? Not half as much as I! Sad. Sad. Sad.

WTF! I have been following your story and your boss is lower than low. Keep fighting and fight hard. Dont you dare quit or give up. They have no right to do this to you! Do your job as best as you can hun even if it pains you. And WTF!!! How can you get two written warnings at the one time as well? That is ****ed! SO angry for you right now!!!

ETA -

A warning is just what it says - "don't do that again or else". By giving you two warnings at once they have deprived you of the opportunity to learn from the first warning and modify your behaviour.

Giving you the two warnings at once suggests they're gunning for you. But frankly if this causes them to dismiss you on the basis of these two warnings I suspect they would come unstuck if you challenged it.

:hug: and :comfort:

That won't fly. Two written warnings are still not due process, especially when they come at the same time. Due process is having a word about any concerning behaviour (hard to do when you're making it up and rushing towards 3 written warnings when you think that's all you have to do to get rid of someone 'legitimately') without anything in writing, to give the person an opportunity to rectify it before it has to become a written warning. With a written warning comes a meeting where you work towards resolving the issue and avoiding another discussion about it, so that all aims and motivations are clear and you can work towards getting back to business.
In fact, in the absence of these things and straight to written warning, they are giving themselves away and really becoming deserving of the 'bully' label. Issuing TWO is just stupidity because now it is clear that there is a campaign against you, when this is the first you hear about it.
Fairwork Aust should see this as a clear disregard for due process. There is no 'compassion' involved in this. Allegedly, they were concerned for your pregnant state. Then they go and behave in a way that says they don't actually give a toss about your welfare, they just want you gone, and to all and sundry it is evident that it's because you're pregnant and they want to avoid the obligations that go with that.
Please, please, please - no more meetings, official or unofficial, with ANYONE until you can arrange to have your OWN witness with you. Any meetings WILL wait until that can be arranged. They won't bully you into meetings where you'll be railroaded mercilessly and with no notice to give you time to prepare. That's another bullying tactic - they have time to prepare and you don't, what's with that? Be very firm next time. If you get to work and someone says you're to meet with a boss, you smile (this is important - just do it!), pause, and say you will have the meeting when you can arrange someone to come in with you and you will get back to them with a time that is the earliest convenience. Then, you turn around, go to the toilet, breathe, breathe some more, and get back to work. During working hours you arrange someone to come in with you - don't do it on your break. It's a work issue, you use work time ;)

Maya has given some great advice so I am just part of the cheer squad :comfort: and lot's of :hug: I agree that they are crossing into the bully/harrassing stage and this is sooo not fair to you.

Keep FWA posted, keep making notes - make them as contemporaneously as possible ... sit down and write notes at the time of any further "meetings" or immediately afterwards, so you get the words used, body language noted etc and it's as accurate as possible - and write down the date and time of them.

Make a copy, so you have a safe set as well, in case something happens to your first set.

Is it possible to talk to the new CEO? They might not be comfortable disagreeing with the old CEO to his face, or speaking out against him publically at the moment, but is it possible to speak to them privately to at least let them know your side of the story, and give them the option to take the higher ground with you (and FWA...) rather than possibly getting tied up in the old CEO's BS and dragged down with it before they've even really established themselves?

And yes, take someone with you to any future "meetings".

Netix - massive hugs. Maya and Peanutter have said it well and given great advice. It is awful and unfair - I hope you are able to see this as it is rather than being about you. Sad reflection on the CEO and his business but I am glad that as is usually the case these people make silly blunders which reveal their motives.
xxxxxxx

This is not process and you should add this to the claim that you have already made as further evidence of intimidation and bullying tactics.

Hang in there!!

When keeping a diary, put a line directly under your last entry, leaving no gap. If you need to add to it, write another entry with time and date of when you're making it. If it's a recollection, note the time and date of the incident within the note itself, don't make it the entry date. This covers you and is transparent so that it doesn't look like you're inventing things. It will be invaluable for you if this goes to mediation. My diary got my old boss into a real pickle (he was too arrogant to keep notes on me and his interactions with me and only had one thing in writing - a nasty and vindictive email he sent me...yes, you read right, it was by email!) and even his lawyer (ha ha! I made him spend money on a lawyer for the afternoon!) was shaking his head at how I had snookered him with his client's own actions. Buy an exercise book and keep it on you at work (try not to leave it unattended - my favourite is one called a Fat Little Notebook).
I'm not jaded, I promise ;)

Thank you everyone. I need all the strength I can get at the moment to deal with this, and win. I forgot what I was going to say, but Maya, I think it was about your first post at the top of this page, and that i am doing what I can in that. I got pressured into the meeting yesterday, amd was just shocked at what was being put forward. I had no words.

The two letters of warning I was given (actually pushed under my dinner plate shortly before I went on break, not handed to me) are both dated 5 January, not the 23rd.

I know he wants me out and will play at anything he can to get me out. He has not offered help or similar to help me improve or anuthing like that. Just says i must change.

Fwa today say the process is happening, but did not take any notes (didnt ask me any name details) when i told them about what has happened since the business becoming aware of my complaint. I called worksafe, they are sending me a bullying pack to fill in a form and send back, re ceo behaviour and the letters. Am waiting for after 2pm so i can call jobwatch back.

Will be calling the local paper, and probably today tonight and aca. The Man doesn't care about people knlwing whereabouts I live, jist for this story to be very public. We can always move again. And when I marry him, I will have a different name

It has got to the point where I cried all night, and don't want to go back to work because of (highly likely) unfaor and unjustified vilification. I spent all of last night's shift hiding tears and sadness. What will this stress do to my baby?

this whole situation makes me so angry. there is no way they should be treating you like this & i hope you can feel the sense of outrage & the support that is being sent your way & that it helps you to stay strong & focussed. :hug:

perhaps you could speak to a GP or similar about the stress & your concerns about how it may affect the baby? i know that generally women can withstand a fair amount during PG without it affecting the baby, but at the very least it must be having (or has the potential to) a negative impact on your blood pressure.

stay strong, keep taking those notes & keeping good records of dates/times/behaviour etc. good luck with your next call to job watch too :hug:

Keep the media option up your sleeve - hold off on that for now, till you've heard more from FWA and WorkSafe.
Definitely go to the GP now - the sooner the better, and tell him or her all about this that he or she is able to listen to so that you can get a referral.
Dating the letter the 5th is a stupid tactic if they're going to 'give' it to you three weeks later. It shows that they are either not very concerned about the apparently serious concerns (because written warnings are only ever supposed to be serious breaches of conduct!), or they are backdating and that also is stupid. Slipping it under your dinner plate instead of giving it to you and discussing it (not even posting it to prove they wanted to make sure it got to YOU) just so goes right against them and screams "bully" with no effort on your part, so that's just handing you more evidence.
I'm glad you've got no experience with playing hard ball, and I'm sad that you have to learn it now. The situation and your boss (not to mention manipulated co-workers) can have you feeling crazy and like you're the one in the wrong and that's what bullying is designed to do. Stick to your guns.
Mention media maybe in the next communications, that may be enough to get them to conceded a little something. Just not now till you know a bit more about where your cards are falling.
Look after yourself - get a massage, or foot rub or something. Just take some time out (I know how much these things just follow you around in your head) :hug:

Did you sign the written warnings?

A written warning also needs to be given with a certain time frame and can not be back dated.


They are being shonky without a doubt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The only thing I have ever signed is my full time job proposal. I just got off the phone with jobwatch. I jave made some errors in not responding in writing to the 'redeployment' letter, or arguing my disagreement of the proposed changes. It has made it look loke i am agreeing to what is going on (note to future problemees; do it!). I need to start now and create a retrospective papertrail, and try to back the ceo into a corner, but withoit sounding like i hate him or that we dont get along (bad for me in the future, shows i cant work with him).

Not done anything with the media yet. I am annoyed at myself for not having replied in writing. Jobwatch say to contact my dr (who when we last discussed work, did NOT write any issues on my depression questionnaire! Grrr! And will cost me heaps to go back and see), as may

Sorry, as may be a workcover issue and stress leave.

Sorry, am typing on my phone, and sometimes is impossible to move where i want the cursor if I have accidentally bumped it somewhere else.

Just read your posts - I am shocked! I am sure you have already got lots and lots of great advice and you know that you can't get two backdated warnings at the same time. It doesn't matter if you sign the warnings or not, however it does matter that you were not given one at a time (with a reasonable opportunity (2-3 weeks) before there was another meeting to see how you are progressing, before you were potentially given another warning. The fact that you weren't given the opportunity to have anyone with you is also a problem given they were aware you had made a complaint etc, etc.

I have lots of experience dealing with these situations (as an employer, so I know what we have to do to let someone go with proper process) - and I can't see any commissioner letting them get away with this. The reality is though that it will be a hard road, it sounds like they don't want you to be there - but you deserve to stand up for yourself. Keep in close contact with the fairwork etc to make sure you are protected and getting advice specific to your situation, if they do decide to terminate, you will have done everything to protect yourself and could claim post termination. If you do feel that you cannot cope any longer, then to me this is really something called constructive dismissal (where they basically make it so awful for you, they force you to resign). This is also unlawful - but you should get advice before you go any further. It would also be useful for you to find out what you would be entitled to if this were to go through fairwork so you can see what you are fighting for.

Like the others have said, I would probably avoid ACA at this stage, purely because I think it might add to the pressure on you, but you still have that up your sleeve. It isn't too late to put things in writing now - you are not expected to be a lawyer, or an HR professional, so don't think it's too late, just get the advice you need and do everything you can now! I am sure there are quite a few of us on here who would be happy to review your letter if you want an independant person to review it for you too. You are not alone!

I was just thinking about when I went through similar and it occurred to me that you will be required to see the Work Cover insurer's psychiatrist.
Here are some points to consider when that happens (happens in bullying cases because you're claiming stress due directly to the work situation):
- if they choose one more than a 10 minute drive from you, insist on a taxi to get there and they can put it under their 'ambulatory' costs, which means the cost to get you to travel to a medical practitioner, because it's work-related. I had to go to one and I didn't have a car, it would have taken too long to get there by public transport and we had a new puppy that I wasn't going to leave for that length of time. They ordered me a private taxi (a sedan sized limo!), and I warned them that I'd have to bring the puppy with me (even on private transport it was going to take an hour to get in from where I lived). The driver was very nice and said he drove a lot of stress cases to the psychiatrists for the insurer. He was very nice!
- Your GP costs can be put under this claim, too, so don't be afraid to go to your GP again - the insurer pays the costs, that's what the premiums are for. Get the address of the insurer, a contact name (or the HR person at work, if that fails) and get the GP to send the bill to them - don't handle any more invoices or bills.
- The psychiatrist they send you to is not concerned about your welfare. Tell them the bare minimum and keep it work-related.
- The psych WILL probe and try to get you to reveal about your private life, and will likely push buttons about the pregnancy - be prepared for this and stand your ground, keeping him or her at barge-pole distance. Always link the stress in your head with incidents at work. If you must mention your DP, only say that he is supporting you and looking after you while you fall apart about work issues. If you say that the stress has caused strain on your relationship, or things like that, they will twist it to mean that your personal life is what is causing your work troubles. I thought I was helping my case by saying my DP was exasperated with how work was affecting my mental health and it was used against me, quite inexplicably.
- The psych is paid by the insurer to say that you are NOT stressed due to work, so give him or her as little reason to conclude this as possible. If they ask about anything outside of work, say that it has nothing to do with the work stress and you just want to return to work without the pressure to resign. Be specific about that. Do role playing with DP if you have to!
- You will need to really play up the stress and probably cry when you talk about how much you want to keep working there because you like the work and are good at it, but actions of your boss make it impossible to switch off after work, because you go home and worry about how much they're going to pressure you to leave, and the effect on your baby's cortisol levels (because cortisol is a hormone that crosses the placenta).
- You owe the psych nothing, remember that golden rule!
- Don't give anyone else at work any personal details, close shop and pull the curtains - trust is broken and even a joking comment can be used against you.

I hate that I've had to remember this, and if someone had told me before I'd gone in I would have been very grateful. I've given these nuggets to a friend and also my mum and they found it very useful, even though at the time of the telling they thought I was overreacting. I wish I had been. My friend was successful in her claim against the Dept of Justice, too, on the upside (well, downside, depending on how you look at it).
Most stress claims aren't successful - they tend not to believe you're stressed until you are completely broken. I will say, however, that my girlfriend was NOT completely broken and hers was successful. Plus, there were people back in my time working towards changing that situation of having only suicidal and heavily medicated workers' stress claims being accepted. So, I hope that holds true for you. The 'joke' was that if you weren't already stressed when making the claim, proving you are stressed would send you to a psych ward :(
Don't let that deter you. You can do this. Push it as far as you possibly can, and do pull back if you feel you have reached the point where it's not worth it anymore - only listen to your own voice on this, as there will be plenty of people who will try to tell you it's not worth it before you feel ready to pull out.
Make sure your baby gets plenty of your feel-good moments - yoga will help, listening to mantra music before bed and while you drift off, and at any other given time listen to things that will relax you (more so than things you enjoy, I mean specifically relaxing listening).
Sorry to harp on about it!

I have written my reply. Turned out to be a six page typed letter. Printed it off at the local library, bundled the kids back into the car, to the post office. Closed. Missed them by ten minutes! Argh!

how are you going this week netix? i hope work hasn't been too horrible for you & you're hanging in there ok :hug:

This is absolutely disgusting that they are treating you in this way.

Stick to you guns and don't back down!

Was stressed over the weekend and yesterday, as they would have got the letter on monday or yesterday at the latest. I had to go in to work on monday to get my pay, no one said anything and nothing happened. So was then expecting something yesterday. I said hello to the ceo and incoming manager as they walked past together. New manager said hello, and the ceo said nothing, then probably thought better of it and said a quiet hello. Aside from that, he didnt speak to me at all. Ha ha because he had no choice when i rang him twice to put calls through! The new manager spoke to me often, when he needed to, he seemed to have lots of questions. I think more because he's getting more involved with running things, and also organising improvements around the place (like repairs that are years overdue).

The hardest thing was, and it made me feel really sad, was the accounts girl (who put her hand up for my job when it was offered around) was telling me to clear a function room and for me to get the waitress to clear the other function rooms, all ready for today. She said the the new manager had been doing all the setting for functions, but he's been really busy today, he probably can't be bothered (basically) to clear and reset. Great. Receptionist and s*** kicker. :thumbsup:

So her and the new manager are doing all the functions together. I saw a note for staff going to be rostered on for a staff member's wedding (for bar and wait staff). I'm on the list, and accounts girl and new manager are running the fiasco. Funny, cos the staff member whose wedding it is, is the Wench (from a previos thread, the one who calls me fat), and she said ages ago that she would go mental if anyone else but me ran her wedding. :rolleyes: . I guess I gotta be there so I can watch accounts girl and new manager screw it up.

So sad.

I got my letter from fairwork aust on when our hearing is. Its on 16 feb, in bendigo. I'm supposed to work, so I will need to organise someone to cover my shift, somehow for dd to get to and from school (unlikely, probably have to be away for at least that day), and someone to look after ds (including nappy changes). Bendigo is 2 hours away.

:(

Oh Netix that sounds a bit tricky! Hope you are able to find some back up for your trip to Bendigo. I really hope there is some serious consequences for these guys and the organisation. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Do you feel like putting out a BB call for someone to come who lives closer to where you are? Or a FB callout?

I was thinking about it Maya, but I dont think there is anyone. And I wouldnt know how to ask :redface:

I live 1 hour from Bendigo. I could possibly meet you there depending on what time it is, as I have a kidlet to get to school. But I could care for kids while you are at the hearing.

Oh, that would be wonderful! I just dont know how long it goes for, or could go for. I'm pretty sure the time is on the sheet that they sent me, I just can't remember when it said. I will look and post back. Thank you so much, you don't know how much this means to me, along with all the support and kind words and thoughts for this whole 'thing' from everyone. :hug: And thank you so much for giving me this space to vent, document, and otherwise just 'get it out'.